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 AUTHOR
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 1
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignityPage 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity.

I helplessly watched my mother die of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (aka A.L.S. and Lou Gehrig's Disease). Initially she didn't suffer much. However as the disease progressed her life became a living hell. She was trapped in a body with muscles she could no longer control. A bed-ridden invalid, she developed huge bed sores that didn't heal (until I seen one I had no idea what they were).

Over the months her speech became increasingly slurred to the point she could no be understood. Communication further degraded to where we would ask her questions, to which the only response she was capable of was an eye blink; once for "Yes" and twice for "No". She was incapable of initiating a topic or asking for anything. She was entirely dependent on someone asking the right question.

One question we did ask Mom is "Do you want to die?". One blink.
Then "Are you scared to die?" Two blinks.

She died two years after diagnosis.

I want quality of life, not quantity. I have decided that if I were to be faced with a horrid existence such as my mother endured I would not want to prolong the agony.
I would want to die earlier, hopefully with at least a modicum of dignity. If assisted suicide were the only way out the living hell then I would choose that.

When a few years later Sue Rodriguez, also suffering from A.L.S., made public her fight for the right to die by means of assisted suicide, I so hoped for her to win the legal right to do so.

I feel that people, who through their authority and influence, deny to those who wish the legal right to die by assisted suicide, are cruel.

Have you witnessed a loved one endure the living hell of a progressive and terminal disease as horrid as A.L.S.?

How do you feel about the legal right to die by assisted suicide for yourself, or for a loved one?
 tweetiebird66
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 2
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 2:01:14 PM
I lost my eldest brother to A. L. S.

Since then I have given care to three people dying with A. L. S.

We treat our pets better when they are suffering.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 3
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 2:02:42 PM
I want quality of life, not quantity. I have decided that if I were to be faced with a horrid existence such as my mother endured I would not want to prolong the agony.

Are you suggesting we change the Laws, challenging the Medical Establishment's & Drug Empire's Divine Right to Government Funds?
 forumlover
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 4
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 2:11:03 PM
I agree! When did we get to the point where we do not get to choose for our own lives anymore. I work in extended care and there are people there so frail and sick and asking to die. However we are keeping them alive to benefit societies guilt complex.

First of all the natural progression of death is taken away by medicines that prolong but never heal, forcing them to eat and forcing suppositories every couple of days. As the body itself is shutting down and getting ready to die doesnt it make sense that they would not be as hungry and that they wouldnt be going to bathroom as much. However for some reason death has become such a taboo thing in North America. Some cultures look at it as a passing into something better, for some reason our culture wants to make people live forever no matter what there quality of life is.

I believe in right to choose.
 The PigWig
Joined: 10/19/2008
Msg: 5
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History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 2:12:05 PM
My mother was in long term care for over 10 years.

We should be able to check out any time we want. Period
 NotBroken
Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 6
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 2:26:57 PM
I suspect I have a somewhat unique opinion on suicide alone, which clearly overlaps with my opinions with respect to assisted suicide.

People suffer for many different reasons. Both the physical and/or mental anguish can lead one to thoughts of ending one's own life.

My mother was bi-polar (well, they called it manic depressive back then), and she successfully committed suicide when I was just four. Meds did not help in those days, life was too painful for her. It took a long time for me to understand, but now I think that she did what was best for her ... even if it hurt me, and the others who loved her. It was her life, her choice, her pain ...

When in my teens, I watched my grandfather die a long and horrible death due to lung cancer. He begged us to pull the plugs, he begged for it to be over, he cried and screamed and moaned pitifully ... and if he'd had the strength to do it himself, he would have.

After his death, my grandmother took to keeping a stockpile of sleeping pills ... she had decided that the moment she began losing the ability to care for herself, she would end it. She talked to her children, and her grandchildren about helping her if she was not able ... she was ready, we all were. In the end, she died quite suddenly, so that promise never had to be fulfilled - but we were, all of us, ready to oblige.

So yes, OP, I agree ... "people, who through their authority and influence, deny to those who wish the legal right to die by assisted suicide, are cruel."
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 7
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 3:21:53 PM


I want quality of life, not quantity. I have decided that if I were to be faced with a horrid existence such as my mother endured I would not want to prolong the agony.


Are you suggesting we change the Laws, challenging the Medical Establishment's & Drug Empire's Divine Right to Government Funds?


Yes, absolutely yes!
 ritawayward
Joined: 4/17/2007
Msg: 8
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 3:31:38 PM

I want quality of life, not quantity. I have decided that if I were to be faced with a horrid existence such as my mother endured I would not want to prolong the agony.


Are you suggesting we change the Laws, challenging the Medical Establishment's & Drug Empire's Divine Right to Government Funds?




Yes, absolutely yes!

I second that emotion!
 whitetigeress
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 9
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 3:46:25 PM
how they are feeling when they leave this world is my main concern not how they die therefore yes... i agree on assisted suicide because it would indeed bring peace to a tormented soul as long as they had a chance to show and feel love beforehead

never again i would ever want anyone to die feeling alone.. it breaks my heart and I speak this from personal experiences
 Wildman46
Joined: 6/4/2008
Msg: 10
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 4:11:02 PM
Op assisted suicide should be a law everywhere. I remember once telling my ex that I don't ever want to live long enough to be a burden to my loved ones, her response was " That ship already sailed Allen" .

We all for the most part choose how we live our lives, I think we should also have a say in how our life end( if it's possible).
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 11
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 4:31:40 PM
Just to serve as an Example of oblivious Medico Rederick:

"Margaret Cottle, a palliative care physician and UBC instructor, argues that any case supporting one's right to die is scientifically groundless."

Opponents call assisted suicide groundless

In other Words ... unbearable Pain in imminent Death has not been scientifically established as a Reason to terminate a Life, ie. your Right, Opinion or Judgment is irrelevant.

Don't forget ... these Kind of Folks have Degrees up to the Ying-Yang, all Knowledgeable, but can't even deal with simple Ideas to formulate a rather obvious Solution.


And this is supposedly because:

"We do not know, scientifically, whether when you die you don't go into screaming agony someplace."

It's Experts, Authorities ... ie. complete Idiots who are obstructing the Right-to-Die Legislations.

* I'm sure good 'ol Margaret always receives her 'Eli Lily' Bonus Cheques on Time ... *

And also, the Roman Catholic Church said assisted suicide is a dangerous Step that devalues Life.

And it does'nt end there either:

"The Supreme Court of Canada struck down the case for assisted suicide when it ruled in 1994 that Victoria resident Sue Rodriguez, who had Lou Gherig's disease, could not end her life."

She had argued Sections of the Criminal Code violated her Right to terminate her Life. The Court simply disagreed that these Sections were in Conflict, and that a Prohibition has no applicable Bearing on any Mistreatment. All that means is that the Angle, or the Basis of her Case was not accepted by the Court.

The Supreme Court however erred when it stated that:

"Prohibition of suicide reflects part of the fundamental Values of Society and so could not be in Violation of fundamental Justice."

... since there is no established Basis that "assisted Suicide" goes against the Grain of societal Values, nothing was established in respect to fundamental Justice.

In other Words, the Court fabricated the Pretense that "Assisted Suicide" is not in Sync with popular Opinion.

Many now believe the Ball is in the Gov'ts Court ...
 oh_youknow
Joined: 11/2/2008
Msg: 12
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 10:19:11 PM
I have no horrible personal experience with such situations, but all I know is if my quality of life was so radically reduced to coherent veggie status.. put me in the tub with a grocery bag.
 You go first
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 13
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 10:43:35 PM
It's interesting to see that both Oregon and Washington now have assisted suicide laws.

It's obviously a huge issue as our population is aging and living longer, whether healthy or not.

When my late husband first got sick, he said he'd "go out into the woods with a rifle and just not come back" if he got worse. He didn't, of course, but it was his way of saying he didn't want to be a burden.

We later had the conversation about "no heroic measures" and our immediate families knew of his wishes if it came to that. It did. I had no hesitation in requesting the Doctors cease further treatment as it wasn't my choice, but my husband's.

In my opinion, there is a huge difference between someone suicidal because of a mental illness and someone with a terminal, no-hope, end-stage disease who wants to leave before they can't communicate or are in constant agony.

I absolutely believe a person should have the right to request (legal) medication to hasten their exit so they can die on their own terms. Sadly, there are enough cases where families have sued Doctors for 'not doing enough' that the medical community has no choice but to prolong the life of the patient in agony because the family can still override the patient's wishes.

There will be those that argue the "slippery slope" - that's b.s. If there were Legislation, standards and procedures would be in place - all "lawyer approved".
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 14
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 10:55:59 PM
In my opinion, there is a huge difference between someone suicidal because of a mental illness and someone with a terminal, no-hope, end-stage disease who wants to leave before they can't communicate or are in constant agony.

Exactly, Standards would have to be drawn up, and I sure wouldn't want to leave that up to the Medicos/Pharmaceuticals who want to deny your Rights because of supposed scientific Invalidities, ie. $$$cience thinks they can overrule your Rights to Life, incl. when to terminate it in humane Fashion.

Sadly, there are enough cases where families have sued Doctors for 'not doing enough' that the medical community has no choice but to prolong the life of the patient in agony because the family can still override the patient's wishes.

Because no current Rights to "Assisted Suicide" exists, no Laws are in place that govern Professional Conduct, leaving the Door wide open for Lawsuits. Once it becomes legal, it would be no more complicated than a few Amendments to the existing Mal-Practice Regulations.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 15
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History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/5/2008 11:23:54 PM
it can be a subtle distinction between delaying death and prolonging suffering.
 DAKOTATRUCKCOUNTRY
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 16
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 1:30:47 AM
It should be legalized, if it is not already. Further more, if someone, a loved one, or yourself, are that terminally ill, then they should be allowed assisted suicide, and the right to die, with dignity. NO IF's, WHEN's orrrrrrrrr BUT's.

It is EXTREMELY HARD, to watch someone suffer, that is sooooooooooo close to you, that you love soooooooooooo, much suffer in pain, and agony.

It is hard to let them go, yes, but to watch them slowly die in pain, is even worse, if not down right cruelty to them.

By allowing them the right, to die with dignity, with assisted suicide, is the ONLY, right thing to do, and in the end, as much as it may hurt, at first, ya will feel a lot better about, doing the right thing for them, so that they do NOT, suffer in pain and agony, ANYMORE.

If ya LOVE them so much, then, let them go, and be in peace.

Let the good lord, now take good care of them, for you.
 tweetiebird66
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 17
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 7:50:20 AM
Why does the medical and legal profession have the right to prolong human life far past the time one would naturally expire with a terminal illness...

...Yet say we can't "play God" in letting a person choose die without suffering?

What gives us the right to "play God" in the first place by prolonging life...just because we can?

Just a little bit of human irony there.

We can keep them hydrated and fed and full of antibiotics with I.V.'s and feeding tubes long after the natural processes would have shut down.

We can fill them full of Lasix to prevent them from drowning, long after their hearts and kidneys have decided that enough is enough.

Once we have prolonged their lives to the point where they will drown in their own body fluids, we then fill them with atropine to keep their lungs dry and morphine so that they 'have no pain' from this unhuman existence we have foisted on them. Eventually the morphine shuts down the central nervous system (being too weak from starvation and built up toxins from the liver and kidneys not working) and the process we have prolonged takes place anyway...God's little hurrah in the face of man's 'superior' medical knowledge.

And that, my friends, is dying with dignity... NOT
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 18
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History
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 8:35:55 AM
A lot of deaths are already technically assisted suicides. Its done by the Physician when they make decisions regarding end of life care, and there is some risk to them of a lawsuit if its "done incorrectly." Most Physicians will recommend everyone have a Living Will in place which will help with these decisions and remove some of the possible guilt the family members experience when going through end of life issues with a loved one.

However, many times people don't know the reality of the services they are denying themselves. IV's, antibiotics, oxygen, feeding tubes and morphene are all things that can turn a life around at times and the person recovers a few good years after a crisis, even at an advanced age.

Hospice care has progressed considerably over the last 20 years, and they can provide help both with the ethical decision-making and the pallitive care that can ensure that the end of life is approached with minimal pain, suffering, fear and guilt, and with the highest quality of life possible for the remaining time.

Everyone should have a financial Will and a Living Will, and a medical power of attorney chosen. Look into hospice care at least 6 months to a year before it seems necessary--you can actually recover from the extra care and attention hospice provides and then return to it later when it is needed again.

Hospice can be provided in a nursing home, extended care setting, a hospice facility or at home. In each case it extends the amount and type of care to consider ultimate death and the quality of life until death happens.

We have such good pain medications now available that no one should suffer with great pain. We have anti-depressants, and counselling to deal with the fear and anxiety. We now know how to include the family with dignity and not to isolate the dying from their loved ones.

There are many assistive technologies, medical devices, and proceedures that help the non-dying disabled which can help a dying person to be more comfortable, functional and participatory than ever before. These have to sometimes be advocated and even fought for, particularly with the elderly, but they can make a huge difference in someone's life at the passage to the end of life.

For instance, special padding and dressings for prevention of bed sores, communication devices for those with limited movement, automated controls so the person can control the environment in their room, such as to turn on and off a TV, phone, lights, temperature, etc. specialized wheelchair seating to improve lung capacity, a vest that helps someone to cough easily with less effort.
 tweetiebird66
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 19
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 9:02:48 AM

However, many times people don't know the reality of the services they are denying themselves. IV's, antibiotics, oxygen, feeding tubes and morphene are all things that can turn a life around at times and the person recovers a few good years after a crisis, even at an advanced age.


We are talking about dying with a terminal illness, not living with a disability.

A.L.S. is a terminal illness. There is no known cure, as there is no cure for terminal cancer, only palliative care.

A lot care in terminal illness and end of life care is done for those that are left living, to ease the guilt for the fact that they are not the ones dying, that they are doing 'all they can.' The I.V. ...running only fast enough to keep a vein open...this comfort measure is for the family, it does nothing for the patient...morphine...to make a physically wracked and wasted human body appear to be resting (initially comatose...what loving support) lasix and atropine...so the lungs won't gurgle every time our loved one breathes. If you have truly worked in the field you appear knowledgeable in, you are denying the reality of people looking you in the face and saying "I just want to go...no more mental and emotional anguish or physical pain."

Comfort measures are for those left living when a person is ready to die and we prolong it.

Someone who has lived a life and is unquestionably dying deserves to make their own choice about how they meet their end.
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 20
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 9:12:34 AM
Ideoform ^^^

However, many times people don't know the reality of the services they are denying themselves. IV's, antibiotics, oxygen, feeding tubes and morphene are all things that can turn a life around at times and the person recovers a few good years after a crisis, even at an advanced age.


There are many assistive technologies, medical devices, and proceedures that help the non-dying disabled which can help a dying person to be more comfortable, functional and participatory than ever before. These have to sometimes be advocated and even fought for, particularly with the elderly, but they can make a huge difference in someone's life at the passage to the end of life.


These services that one must depend on, be they. IV's, antibiotics, oxygen, feeding tubes and morphine, etc. cannot turn around the life or inevitable outcome for a person suffering from a progressive, terminal disease, such as A.L.S.

While communication devices, automated environment controls, specialized wheelchairs, etc. may make their existence somewhat less horrible is there any quality of life?

When you are unable to do anything for yourself, and are locked inside your head, is that quality? I do not think so!

On a side note, all these aids are very costly to provide. Who pays? Should the person who is dying and wants to get it over with pay?

If the person wants to die it makes little sense to spend vast sums of money, be that personal wealth, future inheritance, or tax payers, to prolong the life of someone who does not want it prolonged.
 kasha111
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 21
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 10:43:30 AM
I cheered when the proposal passed in Washington for the right to choose assisted suicide. Hopefully we can start addressing in Canada.

After spending days and days with family and friends dying from a non curable disease I totally applaud the iniative. When you sit and watch someone dying, your heart breaks as they gasp for every breath and you cannot help but wonder if the pain medication is adequate. My friend begged to die. The horror of her slow death will remain with me forever.

Why do we treat our dying pets with more dignity than our friends and family members?
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 22
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 10:44:19 AM
Why does the medical and legal profession have the right to prolong human life far past the time one would naturally expire with a terminal illness...

Because Medical Schmexperts & legal Councels charged with the Social Well-being of the Public advise the various Levels of Gov't who then sign these Recommendations into Law. If your first Thought was "Kick Backs" in the Form of pharmaceutical monetary philanthropistic Influences, you may well be on the right Track. How many Billions, if not Trillions could be extracted to keep the Dieing alive?

Once we have prolonged their lives to the point where they will drown in their own body fluids, we then fill them with atropine to keep their lungs dry and morphine so that they 'have no pain' from this unhuman existence we have foisted on them. Eventually the morphine shuts down the central nervous system (being too weak from starvation and built up toxins from the liver and kidneys not working) and the process we have prolonged takes place anyway...

Excellent Business Plan !!! And the Taxpayer gets to pick up the Tab, often to the Tune of Millions.

We have such good pain medications now available that no one should suffer with great pain.

They often do not work, and a dying Person may still suffer in excruciating Pain for Years to come. Of the 3 People I know who passed away from long drawn-out terminal Cancer within the last 5 Years, each and everyone was in agonizing Pain irrespective what Medications they were given.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 23
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Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 12:10:39 PM
A living will helps the family to provide only the care that you decide you want--no more no less. I think that not having a living will causes a lot of needless suffering.

You get to decide ahead of time how you want the end of life to be. If you want no extra help from any of these things you can put it in your living will. This takes the family and the professionals "off the hook" in terms of responsibility and cost.

The advantage of hospice is that they don't do anything to extend a life unless it is asked for and wanted. Hospice nurses can explain to nursing home staff, family and others what is going to help and what will just prolong the inevitable.

Making visitors feel more comfortable is something the dying have also wanted. If someone is wheezing and having lots of anxiety and this is something medication can help with then the dying person might want these things if they are offered.

The addition of having life ended with the morally charged term "suicide" by hastening it in more ways than adding too much morphine or providing less than typical medical care is about freedom.

If a person wants to go into the woods with a gun and die alone, they might be needing the freedom to do so--but perhaps they can't move around well enough by the time they made this decision. Sometimes just knowing you "can" do it or "could" do this makes things feel more manageable and the person in question then doesn't feel the need to end things that way anymore. Its knowing you have an "out" at any time that helps.

I think it is the feeling of being trapped and suffering without being able to take action that is the problem. If people are given more choices along the way, at every step of the way, it has been shown to improve a person's perception of pain and discomfort. Choosing where to be at the end of life, and who to be with, and how much medication and support will be available (not necessarily to use--but available) is a big improvement over what was done even a few years ago, where all these decisions were made by the Doctors.

Death does sometimes take some time. It is painful and uncomfortable, but sometimes this time is used to help the person to let go of life and loved ones, and for the loved ones to let go, too. Life is messy, and chaotic and unpredictable. It is difficult to sanitize death and dying for everyone's satisfaction.

I don't work for hospice, but I have done hospice three times with family in the last few years. Once the person was at her home with family surrounding her, and the others were in a nursing home.

I applied what I know about disability to make things more comfortable and easier for everyone. I think that non-disabled dying adults should at minimum have available to them the things a disabled person uses when appropriate. Many of these things were covered by insurance, can be purchased used, be leased or borrowed. And many of these things are also now being used by the healthy non-disabled to help them, since they simply work well and are a help to people.

I also was present for the death of my daughter of a terminal illness that I feel was prolonged way too long, with many unnecessary, intrusive treatments, that were applied against my own and her father's objections.

I feel this was partly because she was just a toddler at the time. Thas was 19 years ago. I complained about it then, and advocated for changes with the hospital for several years. I think that things have changed a lot since then, but we still have a long way to go.

Calling it suicide is part of the problem. If a person is suicidal that is different than if a person is dying too slowly by their preference. If you mention the money savings to a dying person they might feel like more of a burden than is really true, and then become suicidal when they weren't before.

I guess the term Euthanasia is used now for assisted suicide. Suicide has a social stigma associated with mental illness. I wouldn't want to burden a dying person with the implication that they would have to be suicidal to want to hasten their death.

Offering a person a way out, but not insisting they use it or even encouraging them to use it, is sometimes all that is wanted. Assisting a person to suicide has the same stigma as suicide itself. Family and friends who are compassionately wanting to end someone's suffering should not have to think of themselves as assisting a suicide.

There are levels to this, too. Seeing it in terms of black and white: suicide vs. prolonged suffering caused by medical treatments, is polarising many discussions. There is a difference between leaving a gun by the bedside, using Dr. Kervorkian's anesthesia-like methods, using pallitive care but nothing that extends life, offering extra pain medication, and offering breathing, eating, hydrating, elimination and infection fighting assistance. And there are many other things in between.

Its sad that people have had to resort to the many ways of dying that seem like it is not a suicide--like driving a car in a dangerous way, accidents with guns, death by policeman, medication overdoses, ect.... These methods might even cause more suffering for the person because of the fact that it makes the person very isolated. They cannot talk with others about their plans, their upcoming death, or their fears and worries if they are too outside of the norm.

But legalizing it is going to be very tricky because it might make it appear that a person who's quality of life, though survivable, but is somehow considered sub-standard by strangers, is an undesired citizen.

A lot of people abort children with the disability my oldest son has. His life is quite good now, but at the time he was born there was a lot of question about what his future would be like. Is aborting a child who might suffer from a severe disability assisted suicide if you are assuming what the child might want, but are never going to be able to ask them directly?

There is less money for treatments for my son's disability because there are fewer surviving children and therefore less motivation to find a cure or a prevention, or even better day-to-day treatments and equipment.

My daughter's care cost about a half a million dollars 19 years ago. A lot of children's lives could have been saved with that money, if it was used for simpler things like clean water and food. We enrolled her in research so that people could learn how to help the next child that got cancer. This has helped cancer treatment improve, and now her brain tumor might have been removed and she might be in remission if she were born last year.

A lot of things improve if there is a need for them. Helping someone at the end of life is generally not discussed enough and so the improvements might come more gradually. If there was an easy, one-answer-fits- all for this problem, then maybe we would be missing out on learning things that could help a lot of other people.

A sad fact is that a lot of the pain medications intended for the patients are used by the staff. I know this for a fact. There is a great deal of drug addiction among medical professionals. Anesthesiologists dilute the medications up to half sometimes, leaving some patients nearly awake. There are huge numbers of Doctors, Nurses, Veterinarians and Pharmacists who are diluting pain medications every day.

The reason dying patients experience so much pain in this time is that the dying seldom have strong advocates who understand the system and its problems. Dying people have too few legal rights because they can't sue their providers directly, the family often is misled about what has been happening, and are labeled as "not accepting of the finality of death" if they investigate details. If a patient is terminally ill, the family has to prove a loss to be able to benefit from legal services without paying up front. And with a terminal patient it is difficult to prove a loss that wouldn't have occured from the terminal disease itself.

Every patient should have a pain management plan. This can include a variety of types of medications and methods, such as nerve blocks, and even severing of nerves. Pain management used to be literally ignored less than 50 years ago. Particularly among children. Before the 1980's children were routinely given painful medical treatments and surgery without any pain medication at all. Infants who couldn't speak weren't considered capable of feeling pain at all. Simply because they couldn't be asked about it...

I learned this from my father who was a Doctor who helped other Doctors and medical professionals with addictions to the drugs they prescribe to their patients.

 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 24
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 12:34:54 PM

I guess the term Euthanasia is used now for assisted suicide


Who is using that term Euthanasia to confuse the issue?

Euthanasia is the mercy act of killing without input from the individual being killed.

Suicide is taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally.

Assisted Suicide is the taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally, but requiring the assistance of someone because one is not physically capable of administering the death.

A person seeking assisted suicide does so because they cannot hold a gun, they cannot threaten a police officer, they cannot make an injection with a syringe, they cannot open a pill bottle and if they could they cannot manage to place them in their own mouth and if they managed that they cannot even swallow them..A.L.S. patients lose control of their muscles, which includes those required to swallow. The are totally dependent on others for every aspect of their life... and death. If they want to die why should others deny them that?

We are not taking about pain management. We are talking about ending the pain and dying with dignity, or our own volition, because the quality of life has sunk so low we longer want to live.
 tweetiebird66
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 25
Assisted suicide - the right to die with dignity
Posted: 11/6/2008 1:46:53 PM

Death does sometimes take some time. It is painful and uncomfortable, but sometimes this time is used to help the person to let go of life and loved ones, and for the loved ones to let go, too. Life is messy, and chaotic and unpredictable. It is difficult to sanitize death and dying for everyone's satisfaction.


So just because we have the ability to keep someone alive for needless months/years of suffering against their wishes and to appease our own judgments on what is right and wrong we should?

If someone has a terminal diagnosis, the decision should be theirs alone on how to live and die, and WHEN to die.

Dying does not HAVE to be painful and uncomfortable, feared...or protracted.

And I fail to see what the point you are trying to make about health professionals who have addictions...this runs from 2% to 7% of health professionals, as it does in the rest of society and truly has nothing to do with the discussion...in fact, you have just made another case for a person agreeing to assisted suicide...so they don't suffer needlessly at the hands who are paid to keep them alive when they are actively trying to die.

Make up your minds.
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