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 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 1
Sexual needs and escortsPage 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Another thread got me to thinking... that's usually bad news.

Anyway, it was a thread about escorts/prostitution, etc. You know, that old debate but that's not what I started thinking about.

Of course there were the usual black and white, wrong and right moral arguments and people screaming that all men who do this are "pigs" and all people who think otherwise are unenlightened religious freaks. Whatever. That's a debate that never ends but one of the responders to the thread was an escort and she said something that I thought just cut right to the issue of why men go to escorts or other sex workers. She said that most all of her clients came to her and paid her to do things that their wives or girlfriends weren't willing to do. Simple as that. She said they loved their wives but came to her for that reason and that was all there was to it.

Suddenly, to me this issue took on a different focus. We all go elsewhere in our relationships to a certain degree if our partner refuses to fulfill a need. It doesn't mean we don't love them, disrespect them, or want out.

For example, let's say I really want my wife to wash dishes (I know, I know, very sexist example, but it's all I could think of in a pinch, so please just go with me). But no matter how nicely I ask, or try reciprocating in other ways to encourage her to do dishes, she refuses. It's just not something she wants to do. OK, no problem. I still love her for millions of other reasons but I need the dishes washed. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak, so I hire a maid.

The only real difference I see between here and the man who hires an escort or becomes addicted to pornography is the sexual intimacy issue. Yes, that issue. The Holy Grail to most (not all) women. But isn't that the only difference? This idea of physical intimacy that most women view as the end-all, be-all?

Conversely, most women do almost the exact same sorts of things when it come to emotional romanticism. After all, there are very few Grey's Anatomy watching parties amongst men hoping for a glimpse of McDreamy's a$$. When men fail to provide a certain specific emotional need for a woman, doesn't she find it outside of her partner many times instead of ending an otherwise perfectly good relationship?

So my question is: why risk it ladies or guys? Shouldn't we figure out a way to buck up and fulfill our partner's needs?

My secondary question is: if your partner is asking you to do a couple of things outside your sexual or emotional comfort zones and being refused, why is everyone surprised when they go outside the relationship to get it?

It just seems like a class of Keeping A Partner-101.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 2
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 1:08:41 PM
boy are you a glutton for punishment ..and here is where im getting off this thread
 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 3
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 1:25:11 PM
Cheating is cheating... Trust me, you can live without a blow job. How would you like it if the tables were turned?


Ah, here we go, I knew I could count on POFers to immediately abandon all intellectual thought on a subject and immediately come back with "cheating is cheating". Please reread and realize this thread is about mutual needs in a relationship and how we as men and women can bridge the respective gaps that keep us from truly understanding one another.

Any back to my point. Over time though the resentment builds up until you have guys going to pay some other woman to do what his wife won't. What's really worse? Either way, it happens. And I guess I should've qualified it by saying that llamas and midgets weren't in my mind as I was postulating this. I don't think I've ever seen those services offered anyway.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 4
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 1:30:59 PM
actually ..If you are interested in llamas and midget's ...I know a girl ...do we have to supply the llama's and midget's or do you have your own ...I have to know before I can give you a price

we are having a special this week on alpacas and dwarfs

I think i can get you a deal on a sheep and an elf ...ive heard the xmas season is going to be a little slack for them this year
 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 5
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 1:32:34 PM
deerdog,

I'm a little short on midgets right now, but whatcha got? Oh, I'm sorry, "Little People".
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 6
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 2:13:14 PM
Since I have a few friends who are escorts (including my best friend), and I can talk to them about this sort of stuff because I'm not a client, I think I have a little insight here.

<div class="quote">So my question is: why risk it ladies or guys? Shouldn't we figure out a way to buck up and fulfill our partner's needs?

Well, first of all, I think husbands and wives should not cheat, but I'm not in a position to know if any particular situation would warrant cheating over divorce. I do know that the married clients my friends see (which is most of their clients) visit for several reasons, the most common being their wives have little interest in sex, make it out to be a chore or act as though having sex is doing their husbands a favor. Regardless of whether or not the husbands are right or wrong for looking elsewhere, the fact is they do and many would not if they were satisfied with their sex lives. Usually they don't want to get divorced for financial reasons or because of their kids.

What should the women do? Hard to say, but a reality check wouldn't hurt. A husband who visits escorts long enough and often enough will probably get caught, but ``long enough and often enough,'' is probably a few times a month for several years. If a husband and wife are just not sexually compatible and the wife just wretches at the thought that her husband would visit an escort, she should probably take the initiative and file for divorce.


<div class="quote">My secondary question is: if your partner is asking you to do a couple of things outside your sexual or emotional comfort zones and being refused, why is everyone surprised when they go outside the relationship to get it?

Apparently, oral sex (or lack thereof) is a major factor. A wife who refuses to perform oral sex although her husband really wants oral sex can probably count on him getting it somewhere. Again, it doesn't matter if that's right or wrong. What matters is that's the reality that has to be addressed. The alternatives are make an effort to be more sexually compatible or hope hubby does the ``right thing'' and just accepts the situation. The latter is probably wishful thinking.


All of the morality arguments about right and wrong are not going alter reality, so arguing about what people should do isn't very useful.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 2:57:03 PM
Your thread is on the rather weak side as to try and cut out the issue of morality. Saying that if you don't want your partner to seek another person to take care of their needs, you need to buck up and do what they want.

You are trying to play a word game in the fact that seeking sexual relationships outside of a marriage, or committed relationship is still cheating.

If a partner says they need to have sex with different people, so as not to get bored, is that something the other person is just supposed to buck up and tolerate???

I was married for 9 yrs, and my ex had an extremely low sex drive, however I did NOT go out to someone else to have my needs met because it would be less of a hassle then getting a divorce. I had control and respect, and tolerated things as long as I could, and until his son from a different relationship was old enough to handle life himself better.

And yes there are some really odd people out there that are into things that make some of the most open minded people cringe.

People will justify doing what ever they do for all sorts of reasons, but when it comes down to it, and a person has committed to another to be faithful, and all the other things that go. Seeking sexual gratification outside of the relationship, unless ok'ed by the other partner is still cheating.

We humans may have what we consider needs, and if it is a major issue that our partner won't screw a llama and midget, while you watch, then it is time to get divorced, and find someone that will.

To often the real problem is, people rush into a relationship with rose colored glasses, and then when the tint wears off are disappointed and disillusioned because the their partner will not provide certain things they deem needs.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 8
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:01:02 PM

First of all, if I can't get my partner to wash the dishes, I'ld get my own hands wet before hiring a professioal scrubber.
Second, there's this little thing called "Self Controll". We all have, we don't all use it.


I'm not sure what your point is, but what you thnk people ought to do differs from what people will do. In the real world, reality wins every time.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 9
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:07:18 PM
Your thread is on the rather weak side as to try and cut out the issue of morality. Saying that if you don't want your partner to seek another person to take care of their needs, you need to buck up and do what they want.


No, his point was that no matter what anyone thinks about the morality of cheating, the reality is that guys who are dissatisfied with their sex lives will cheat. Just saying it's immoral is not going to do anything at all to change reality. If anything, it's more useful to discuss what really happens and stick to real alternatives, since we live in the real world.

You are trying to play a word game in the fact that seeking sexual relationships outside of a marriage, or committed relationship is still cheating.


You can call it anything you want. The fact that you have a name for it is completely unrelated to what one can do about it. Giving it a name is a lot less usefull than knowing why someone does it. If you tell someone he's cheating, will he stop? If not, why argue about what it's called?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 10
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:38:38 PM
My angle is this:

If I am suited for the person I am in a relationship with and I've chosen the right person and I am TRUE to myself throughout the relationship, then before it gets serious we already know what the other person won't or won't like to do, no?

Therefore, what could arise within the relationship once solidified that wasn't an issue beforehand? Only things that we did when we didn't want to because we knew the other person would commit or like us or whatever.

If nothing is a surprise, then the other person has a choice to either accept that their partner just doesn't do "X", or go find someone who does, which is where (I think) the problem lies; people are doing things they're not happy with in order to keep the other person around, promising things they can't deliver, or that person seeking things elsewhere is assuming their partner won't want to participate and purposely hiding that desire.
 Blondecharmthe3rd
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 11
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 5:28:25 PM
I think honesty wins out. If you communicate, compromise or reach a dead end... then all of them have a different result.

We all have needs, but its up the individual what is acceptable to their lives or not.

And diamondgirl, hate to tell you but women lie and cheat as much as men. You cheating for the basic principle your man did it is just plain sad and shows a lack of maturity.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 6:00:31 PM

No, his point was that no matter what anyone thinks about the morality of cheating, the reality is that guys who are dissatisfied with their sex lives will cheat. Just saying it's immoral is not going to do anything at all to change reality. If anything, it's more useful to discuss what really happens and stick to real alternatives, since we live in the real world.


So what you are saying is that if a man is dissatisfied with his sex life at home, it is OK for him to get it outside of marriage, so that he can risk his unsuspecting SO life with some nasty disease. Instead of having a major sit down and really talking to her and finding a compromise to the situation. Yeah got ya...

However read any other thread from a man bemoaning the fact his woman cheated on him, and she gets called a dirty ho.

If you want to call it cheating, immoral, or what ever, it still is just that, and if the man can't man up and first try to work things out, then if that fails get a divorce so he is free to find someone more sexually compatible is an actual plausible, and better option. Cheating hurts a heck of a lot of people, and puts a SO at risk of some horrible disease... That sounds like a good excuse for cheating...
 SenoritaC
Joined: 12/19/2007
Msg: 13
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 6:07:50 PM
wow OP i'm kind of flattered that a minor comment of mine created a whole new thread haha.

Ok, so I am an escort, stone me if you want for sleeping with your husbands but please keep in mind HE sought ME out.

Through my line of work, I no longer think that there is a "normal" sex life. I do however see a range from vanilla to confetti. Vanilla being your average basic married sex life: quickie bone once a week like clockwork. Missionary position, lights off, wife counting the tiles in the ceiling......entirely lacking passion. Confetti would be the crazy kids (usually dating) having marathon sessions in different places, doing different things, breaking out the sex toys. Somehow, as relationships progress, the sex life progresses from somewhere around confetti to vanilla. Or worse, NOTHING. The men I see do NOT have a confetti sex life, most don't even have a STRIPED sex life.....its vanilla or nothing. I think this is the attitude that most wives take on "This or nothing". When did sex turn to such a pain in the ass?? Men aren't nearly as selfish as you'd think when it comes to sex. They pay me, and sit there for more than half a session trying to get me off. They'd prolly get off half the rest of the planet with their actions but i'm kinda broken, tho this isn't the point. If you were to show an interest in sex, your man would certainly make an effort to get you off, and therefore boost his ego.
If a clients wife has shown such disinterest in sex to begin with, how can he gather the balls to ask her if she would play with a strap on with him, or explore the wonderful world of watersports? Society has told these men that they are deviants as it is (trust me, these are NORMAL) so the shame as it is will make a man reluctant. But as females we ought to understand that men are sexual beings, and while you're lying there watching reality TV and he's beating off to porn cuz you said no again, his imagination is going.....regular porn has gotten boring....he's curious if he does what he sees if it will turn him on as much.

A man seeing an escort to get the closeness and release that he needs is lesser of 3 evils. (And yes, a lot of clients favorite part is making out like 15 yr olds and snuggling afterwards) If a man has decided he is going to cheat, he is going to, no way about it. But he has options: Bang a dirty barstar on a one night stand when he says hes going out of town? Have an affair with a neighbour or a co-worker-ongoing sex and a relationship of sorts? Or pay an escort 200 for an hour of the lovin he's been missing?
Most will choose the last option....because they're cleaner, usually a lot hotter, and there is more variety (something for everyone) and its a lot easier to self justify. Its just business ya know, she's just providing a service.

Keep in mind, i'm not condoning a man cheating, i'm just saying why and who.

How can we prevent men from cheating? A little enthusiastic fellatio. It won't take more than 10 minutes, i swear! Less if you haven't done it since dating........Just make it wet, and you dont even have to make a mess of your face, beg him to cum on the twins. He'll clean the floor for weeks.

I've learned these things from working in the sex industry, and trust me, i'm just as guilty as most women for holding out on sex with a commited partner for who the hell knows why. But the one thing i've learned the most is that you need to be open and communicate, and maybe make some minor sacrifices and compromises. Men are VERY open sexually, and would be mroe than willing to help with any fantasies you have especially with the concept of theirs coming true looming in the foreground.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 7:19:37 PM
Other guy, there are lots and lots (I don't have a percentage, and don't want to just throw one out) that have men that don't put out. Towards the end of my marriage, I got it maybe 6 times a year. He didn't like Fellatio, and had his own outlet, which was going to strip clubs.

He was not deprived, denied, anything, he was just not into sex, and it was not just me, since our divorce he hasn't gotten all that much, nor does it bother him.

So yes there are also men that don put out, and it can drive a person nuts... However I wouldn't and didn't consider cheating. Didn't have Greys Anatomy parties, and just dealt with it until the kids were old enough to deal. I since have had some really great relationships that included sex, soooo I know I was not the problem when it come to my ex.

The kids are not stupid, and know when something unhappy is going on.

I know my father cheated on my mother, and it wasn't because she didn't put out. He happened to find this chic from his work attractive, and she and he got it on. I was 7, but certainly knew how unhappy the house was.

I would have rather my parents gotten divorced any day.

As for the Escort... I know there are gals that would love to slap you silly, but the truth IS the guy has sought you out, I have respect for that thought process. The 2nd time I caught my ex in one of his regular lies of where he was, he had a beyond thin gal in his lap getting a lap dance. YES, he got punched in the face. Her, I could care less, the only thing she is there for is the green backs. He went to strip clubs 4 to 5 times a week, and told my oldest that he put many gals through college. How nice of him, the family is so thankful someone benefited...

One could argue that you promote cheating my doing married guys, but that is your choice. The man is still the one that has decided to cheat on his family, and use money that could have gone for his family for you, a hooker, stripper, or get a freebee from a barstar. No matter how anyone wants to paint it, he is still hurting people that he is supposed to love.

I am sure there are plenty of women that refuse to put out, and further more refuse to find out if their issue is that they have low hormonal levels. Some gals have learned to use sex as a tool, and that really is sad.

If this is just supposed to be a thread about reality, there are more reasons then listed as to why men cheat, and it isn't always because of the wife not being willing. I guess that is what gets my bp up. because it is a lame excuse to blame someone else for NOT using control. JMHO

Not misconstruing your words in the least, just making sure what exactly it is that you are saying. If that is a problem that someone reflects back what it is that it sounds like you are saying, to make sure they understand your point. Sorry you don't liking my communication techniqueVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 15
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 7:43:24 PM
So what you are saying is that if a man is dissatisfied with his sex life at home, it is OK for him to get it outside of marriage,


Get back to me when you decide not to misconstrue what I write. You had to do it deliberately unless your reading comprehension is very low.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 16
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 7:48:49 PM

LOL! What if I really like vaginal orgasms and my spouse is unable to provide me with them, but the plumber can? Hmmm....


If you know the plumber can, then you've already answered your own question.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 17
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/20/2008 10:52:08 PM

Secondly I was pointing out that, in my opinion, he negated the fact that, as animals with higher reasoning, we can CHOOSE not to act upon our needs or desires.


No, he stated a fact. Married men see escorts for several reasons, one of which is that they aren't getting it at home. Are you disputing that this does not happen or are you just pissed off at a fact? If you're pissed off at a fact, go argue with reality. Let me know if you win the argument and the world changes.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 5:30:12 AM

The men I see do NOT have a confetti sex life, most don't even have a STRIPED sex life.....its vanilla or nothing. I think this is the attitude that most wives take on "This or nothing". When did sex turn to such a pain in the ass?? Men aren't nearly as selfish as you'd think when it comes to sex. They pay me, and sit there for more than half a session trying to get me off.


Strange dont you think that they wouldnt expend that energy on their own wife......


A man seeing an escort to get the closeness and release that he needs is lesser of 3 evils.


So the John is getting some type of "closeness' with some women that he just paid to have sex with, sorry, that is ludicrous. If the John is that delusional that he can convince himself that a hooker is giving him emotional"closeness" after he slips her the "fee", I would have to say this man isnt really playing with a full deck....



If you were to show an interest in sex, your man would certainly make an effort to get you off,


I have to ask this question. Obviously you are getting your "reasons" and "justifications" from your Johns, Do you honestly believe that married men, who are coming to you to have sex with a prostitute, are really being honest about their situation? Are you that naive that you believe what these men are telling you? Of course they are going to spin some tale of woe to you to justify their seeing a hooker and to lessen their guilt.

I am sure that you also believe that you are providing some sort of community service by pretending to care about these poor men, who are so hard done by in their marriages. I find your self serving observations about the wives of your John's highly amusing. Perhaps you need to keep telling yourself that in order to continue to service married men that cheat on their wives with hookers.
 newblue1970
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 19
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 6:15:33 AM
My best friend is in a similar situation. His wife is quite a few yrs older than him and before menopause, she was just as horny as he was. Which meant they went at it like rabbits. Then menopause hit and she is on some meds and now has NO desire. She would probably throw him a BJ everyonce in a while, but without her being enthusiastic it loses its appeal. Not many men are excited by a partner who isnt enjoying themselves.

So, what is the solution. She has the right to not be 'forced' into having sex she's not interested in. But does that mean he has to be celibate? They love each other and he'd never leave her and vice versa. They ended up with a sort of agreement, like a 'dont ask dont tell' policy where he keeps it discreet.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 20
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 7:04:49 AM

My question is: how do the men deal with the guilt? Do they feel it? Do they suppress it? Do they compartmentalize it because their need for sex they're not getting is so strong?


ok lets put this in perspective

cheating is terrible ...and a guy who cheats because he is not getting a certain kind of sex is the worst... saying that a woman should try to do what it takes within reason to please /keep sex exciting for both of them ...dito for the man ...and for these women ( and I hear it to much for it not to be true in come cases ) but these women that when dating and trying to catch a man ...would suck a baseball through a 50 foot garden hose ..but now that they are married will not have oral sex ( unless he has stopped washing it ) well they are wrong also

but I am going to say also that a woman who denies any sex to her husband or uses sex as a tool to get what she wants from her husband ...is cheating the relationship also ...this does not give a man the justification to go else where ...but i submit that it does give him the justification to dump her ass and find happiness after the divorce

now if he has changed the way he treats her and she no longer cares enough for him to have sex then she needs to dump his ass and stop staying married just for security

bottom line ...if it is not a complete marriage ..its not a marriage and needs to be ended where both can look for happiness
 SenoritaC
Joined: 12/19/2007
Msg: 21
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 7:27:23 AM

P.S. And since when is a woman wearing a strap-on and doing the man in the butt and 'watersports' (peeing) NORMAL?????


Perfect example of what society makes us believe are deviancies....when in reality, I'm the one with the penis with about 70% of my clients.


They are just *exhausted* and the last thing they want is a three-hour marathon session of sex with all the bells and whistles.


Completely understood. I've lived it and totally know what its like, how much you just want to sleep as soon as you hit the pillow. And I fell into the same trap of "sorry hun, i'm too tired..." This led him to pornography which is completely fine (don't get me started on those who don't put out and are anti-porn....what is the guy sposed to do, pull it while watching you sleep???) except that seeing porn, which is NEVER plain get the ideas into his head of other things. Watching porn leads to "deviancies" and other sexual interests which leads to shame on his part and even less of a sex life, since plain isn't what interests him anymore. Perhaps all the working women only have energy for 15 minutes of sex per week (i call bullshit), but there are other ways to make a man feel like its not such a pain in the ass. How about iniate that one 15 minute session instead of saying "Fine, ok, but hurry up."? Hell, iniating it would probably speed things up. There are so many EASY ways to improve upon a vanilla sex life to keep a mans mind from wandering...


Strange dont you think that they wouldnt expend that energy on their own wife......


I'm sure they would expend that much energy on their wives, if the interest was there. After 6 years of "Fine, hurry up." the mans agenda in the bedroom is to get in, get off and get out. If you don't want it, how is he supposed to make it good for you??


So the John is getting some type of "closeness' with some women that he just paid to have sex with, sorry, that is ludicrous. If the John is that delusional that he can convince himself that a hooker is giving him emotional"closeness" after he slips her the "fee", I would have to say this man isnt really playing with a full deck....


Keep in mind that it's the illusion, the fantasy, at least with prostitutes. But when a man cheats, he's looking for intimacy and sexual release. The two do not always go together. I find that a lot of marriages now completely lack intimacy. It's more a partnership to pay the bills and take care of the kids. So what if it's gonna gross out your kids....swap spit during the commerical with your husband. Snuggle up on the couch watching Survivor instead of taking separate ends....My parents have been together for 30 years, and I can count the number of times they have intimitately kissed on my hands. And yeah, it's a vanilla sex life. Granted, the lack of intimacy is not just on the wife's shoulders, but if you have the power and know how to fix it, why wouldn't you?? I don't know what woman wouldn't the tingles from the beginnings of a relationship...


I have to ask this question. Obviously you are getting your "reasons" and "justifications" from your Johns, Do you honestly believe that married men, who are coming to you to have sex with a prostitute, are really being honest about their situation? Are you that naive that you believe what these men are telling you? Of course they are going to spin some tale of woe to you to justify their seeing a hooker and to lessen their guilt.

I am sure that you also believe that you are providing some sort of community service by pretending to care about these poor men, who are so hard done by in their marriages. I find your self serving observations about the wives of your John's highly amusing. Perhaps you need to keep telling yourself that in order to continue to service married men that cheat on their wives with hookers.


Hardly self serving actually, married men make me money, why would I spill the beans?? Lack of sex is not a tale of woe, it's not something I would buy either way. He made the choice to come see me over jerkin it in front of the computer screen, or cajoling his wife into a calm 3 minutes under the covers. I have a role to fulfull, i'm not screening my clients asking for their marriage licenses....quite frankly, it's not my problem.

My observations come from both work and life. I was disheartened and bitter and untrusting when I got into this industry (part of the reason I did it. And outlet for sex, and wahey, money too????!) from seeing every male in my life cheat on their spouse in one form or another. And even then, it would piss me off to hear the wives **** and complain about how their husband wanted sex TWICE (can you believe it!!) this week......and then be completely surprised when they found out he had an affair. My biggest point is: If you are selfish and not giving with sex, have the holy grail state of mind, then DO NOT be surpised when he wanders in one form or another.

In cheating, it is NOT just one persons fault. It is both people within the relationship. I'm sick of lazy, selfish wives not taking ANY responsibility.

Yes, cheating hurts, cheating sucks, and you're a douche if you do it. I can tell you I would be stringing up my husband by his nads if it happened to me, BUT I will tell you, that sex will NEVER be a chore.

It goes both ways, if you put in some effort in the bedroom, he'll put effort into the relationship. Women know men, we know damned well that he's not going to bring us flowers for cleaning the floor....but it's kind of funny that i get 2 bouquets a week...just something to think about.

Also: Women's lib is the death of marriage.
 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 22
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 7:33:05 AM

Women cheat too, but just not generally with a paid partner. What is it that they're not getting at home?


FINALLY! I waited a day to finally see ONE single woman on here try a little balance and recognize what is slapping everyone in the face!

Also, at what point did I ever say that cheating was OK? Anyone? Anyone?

WOMEN CHEAT ALL THE TIME TOO. Normally it is emotional cheating rather than physical however, because that is the valued item in the relationship that they tend to come up missing.

This thread is not about morality it's about REALITY. The discussion on right or wrong can NEVER lead to solutions because everyone's definition is different.

Maybe if we all understood HOW and WHY these things happened, we could find ways to, not eliminate, but reduce their occurence. If a man OR WOMAN, has decided to go outside of a relationship for fulfillment of something they feel is missing from it (not just sex), they will. So the discussion should be how do we make sure that BOTH men and women ensure they've done everything they could to not slip into this situation to begin with.


Somehow, as relationships progress, the sex life progresses from somewhere around confetti to vanilla. Or worse, NOTHING. The men I see do NOT have a confetti sex life, most don't even have a STRIPED sex life.....its vanilla or nothing. I think this is the attitude that most wives take on "This or nothing". When did sex turn to such a pain in the ass?? Men aren't nearly as selfish as you'd think when it comes to sex. They pay me, and sit there for more than half a session trying to get me off.


Amen again sister! I've seen this scenario at least a dozen times in my life in friends, family, and others. Once again though how did it get there is the real dilemma to be solved. Once it's there; it's over.

And just for the freaking record to all the harpies, my ex-wife CHEATED ON ME! NOT the other way around. Instead of trying to blame everyone else in the world (which I initially did), I began trying to understand how it got there. How does that happen. Maybe some of you should grow up, face reality, do the same, and look in the mirror for a change. Over 50% of marriages are ending in divorce; there are obviously LOTS of mirrors that need looking into and NOT just by the men.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 23
Sexual needs and escorts
Posted: 11/21/2008 11:10:52 AM
Men aren't nearly as selfish as you'd think when it comes to sex. They pay me, and sit there for more than half a session trying to get me off.

I just wanted to address this....a man trying to make sure he gets a woman off who's considered a pro (at least to him) is not about her. It's a total ego trip and in some cases competitive, and is mainly about him knowing he's good enough to satisfy someone who's um...got more experience than his wife/gf does, basically. You're the catalyst for it, sure, but that's probably the extent of it.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 24
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Posted: 11/21/2008 11:19:55 AM
Sex is a very core aspect of many a relationship and its importance rests not on the fact that it is "provided", but HOW it is provided. While dishes or other chores..eh, who cares, as long as they are done.

(There, corrected that for you)

Also, I've been with plenty of women who didn't care HOW you brought them off, as long as you did it.. and when THEY were all done, WE were done, even I still hadn't "finished" and had plenty of energy left.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 25
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Posted: 11/21/2008 11:37:24 AM
Normally it is emotional cheating rather than physical however, because that is the valued item in the relationship that they tend to come up missing.

Where did you come up with that statistic? A rectal approximation?

Women cheat for the same reasons men cheat, and in fact a much higher percentage of women are cheating now than ever before, because they are being put into ever-higher positions at their workplace and in society. Women cheat for sex, women cheat for love. Women cheat for money. Women cheat for what they're missing. Women cheat for what they can't have.

And so do men.

My ex-wife cheated because she failed to communicate her problems, and sought validation in inappropriate places; namely sleeping with her boss at work while I was home taking care of our daughter and working full-time at the same time. She needed validation that was above and beyond the constant validation and support I was giving her as a husband. Some people will always continue to raise that bar just outside of your reach. She was one of them.

And one other point: Cheating is NEVER the victim's fault, ever. Not once, not ever. SenioritaC believes that cheating is the responsibility of both people. It isn't.

Anyone who cheats, owns that choice 100%. Not 50/50, not 80/20. 100%. There are plenty of choices that can be made, and cheating is NEVER one of them. You can decide NOT to cheat. You can decide to tell your partner what you're missing. You can decide to end the relationship and jump to another. Cheating is NEVER an appropriate answer.

Now, the decisions that led someone to make the choice to cheat, I believe are owned by both people in the relationship. My ex-wife's decision to cheat was based on her not communicating anything at all in the relationship. Communication is a 2-way street, so I own about half of that, by not being more insistent that she confide in me over others. But her choice to cheat, the actions... are hers. She has to own that, not me.
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