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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Obama + Warren sends a sad message      Home login  
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 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 1
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Obama + Warren sends a sad messagePage 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
News announcements now saying that Obama is going to have Rick Warren do the invocation for his inauguration. Now, I've oft said that Obama is anti-abortion, so that part didn't surprise me for him to align with Warren. I had heard in other threads that he was "civil union" ... but I am very saddened that he has aligned himself with someone who used his church to strongly support prop 8 anti-gay initiative in CA.

If it was a closed issue it would be one thing. But it is still a political hot potato so for Obama to align himself with the anti-gay people has clearly communicated that he supports the anti-gays. Nothing worse than a person who has experienced prejudice to support those who want to change our constitution to mandate more prejudice.

I've lost a lot of respect for him by this action.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 2
Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/18/2008 5:32:35 PM
My initial reaction was disbelief. Then, after reflecting on who Obama is and what he has said about who he is, I think I get it.

Obama has thus far carefully chosen his cabinet--some surprises there by going across the aisle.
Asking Warren to do the invocation is another one of those choices that goes beyond the partisan wall. Obama supports civil unions, not 'marriage', between same-sex couples. I'm not sure what Warren's stand is on the issue, but I also don't think for even a nanosecond that Warren and Obama are new best friends.
What I do believe is that this is Obama striving to remain open. The benediction, by the way, will be delivered by another minister who does support gay marriage.

And, in the meantime, we'll just continue to advocate for same-sex marriage.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 3
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:22:20 PM
I'm shocked as well, but not for the reasons that a lot of the left are, but for the fact that Obama looks to be more religious conservative then once ever previously thought by making this move. I’m starting to like Obama more and more each day.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 4
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:44:14 PM
I don't really care about it one way or the other as far as the religious aspect of it is involved.

As for what the man (Warren) represents ... I have to say that I haven't been paying attention to what the various different "preachers" are preaching and what they stand for.

I'll go in and do my own research to see what the guy's background is ... not that it's going to matter, but it is good to know about for future reference.

Edit ...
Oh dear ... I just heard Warren say (among other things) that he views gay marriage the same as if ...
**A brother & sister were to marry (basically incest)
or
**An older man were to marry a child (basically pedophilia)
or
**A man were to have multiple wives

How can someone compare gay marriage to child abuse or promote the idea that it might even be the same as child abuse?
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 5
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:45:08 PM
Yeah, but i also watched the Rick Warren thing he and McCain did and i wasn't impressed with his religious stances on a lot things, It didn't appeal to me personally, but now i can see that was part of the political election process that many of them do during the elections, much like when McCain took a stance with the boarder security issue during the primaries to insure more support from his side.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 6
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/18/2008 11:15:52 PM
"Obama looks to be more religious conservative then once ever previously thought "

Go look at my prior posts. I kept telling people he was as religiously conservative as McCain if not more so ... possibly not quite as conservative as Palin. That is why it isn't any more of a sin to vote for him as to have voted for McCain. (see the sin thread)

That part doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that this particular reach across the aisle was one that came with a complete alienation of a huge portion of his base. When you reach across the aisle you ought to do it without killing yourself.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 7
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:45:17 AM
""If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies""

The one I am familiar with is: "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer"

You've just made my point. He's paid too high a price of keeping his enemies closer when he as slapped his friends in the face and pushed them away to do it. He won't win over his enemies and he will lose his friends.

There are many conservative pastors he could have chosen that would not have totally ticked off the over 48% of CA that are now ticked off at him.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 8
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 3:43:22 PM
Exactly. Not to mention if Obama wants to make it even harder for a rep to challenge him within the next 4 years, then a move like this is crucial to that.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 9
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 5:55:46 PM
I think this was a wonderful move. What hurts me is the continuos comparison of the blacks and homosexuals. I honestly do not care what anyone does in the privacy of their home. It has nothing to do with me personally. But, the constant comparison to my skin color (which is obvious) to many African Americans is insulting. Race and sexual preference are not in the same category.

Obama stated he wanted to bring people together and this was an excellent move. He has also broken another stereotype.
 Thatguy67
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 10
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 6:21:44 PM
I'm not surprised he made this move. He's positioning himself in the political middle.

 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 11
Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:00:49 PM

I just watched Warren on Dateline NBC, and despite me not being religious, his opinions seem to makee sense. I've got no problem with Obama inviting Warren to participate in the inauguration. In fact, Obama earned has earned some of my respect with his general bipartisan attitude.
Now let's see if he actually is bipartisan or if he turns leftist.

Or...if he goes over to the Right...
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 12
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:16:28 PM
Despite popular belief many the gallup poll showed that majority of the voting African American party is extremely conservative. The main reason we left (our original party) the republican party is because of the shift in the base.

He will lead from the center, because he has compassion and understanding of the extreme left, but trust me you rarely meet an educated African American in leadership that is not conservative.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 13
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 9:03:24 PM
You're going to upset some people regardless of what you do, rather if it's on the left or on the right, nothing you do will make everyone happy. So, the next best thing is for Obama is to move to the center, because that is the only way you can make both sides overall content with you.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 14
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:35:04 PM
"Race and sexual preference are not in the same category."

Separate but equal ... yes... it is the same thing. It doesn't matter which of the protections (race, creed, gender, age) is being treated separate but equal. It totally saddens me as one who has been treated and understands myself how horrible being treated with prejudice is that another who has experience it would wish it on others.

Walking around in public as a married couple is a public relationship. It isn't what happens in their bedroom or living room... it is publicly being recognized as a married couple. Heterosexuals married couples are not solely married just in their bedrooms.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 15
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/20/2008 7:50:43 AM
cncgandolf

It is easy for someone that is not in those categories to tell those in the categories how the 'should' feel or think.

Thanks Bikeman

In education we often say that we must be careful placing our 'middle class' values on lower income students. They love their parents as much as the kid whose parent is a doctor.

So, please stop telling me how I should feel about this subject.

African Americans as a whole really do not care, we have our own issues.

When you walk into a room with dark skin people know you have dark skin. Who you chose to hold hands with is truly up to you.

In some countries in Africa men do not have a problem holding hands and that does not mean they are homosexuals. In certain countries in Europe men kiss each other and that is not taken as being a homosexual. In many cultures women sleeping with women is viewed as 'erotic'.

Maybe instead of trying to force brown people to think a certain way we need Americans to get rid of their puritan views of sexuality and maybe we would not be having this conversation.

I practice celibacy where is my support group!

Obama made an excellent choice. I love the book Purpose Driven Life.
 The Artful Codger
Joined: 2/29/2008
Msg: 16
Obama + Warren
Posted: 12/20/2008 10:03:43 AM
I think Obama's choice of Warren is completely in line with his stated objectives.
Good leaders need to lead by example and see a bigger picture than their followers, and both these men have clearly displayed these abilities.
Although the two may have divergent opinions on a couple of divisive and emotion riddled issues,
the goals and ideas they would appear to share are much more numerous...and in my view, much more important.

From Warren's Wikipedia page:

Though maintaining traditional evangelical positions on issues such as abortion and gay marriage, Warren has challenged the conservative views of many evangelical leaders by devoting less attention to these issues and instead calling on the church to focus its efforts on fighting international poverty and disease, expanding educational opportunity for the marginalized, and combating global warming.

...

Warren has worked to shift the evangelical movement away from a narrow focus on social issues, such as abortion and gay marriage, to a broader social agenda. His five-point plan for global action calls for church-led efforts to tackle global poverty and disease, including the spread of HIV/AIDS, and to support literacy and education efforts around the world. In February 2006, he signed a statement backing a major initiative to combat global warming, thus breaking with some of the U.S.'s high-profile evangelical leaders, such as James Dobson, who had opposed such a move.

Warren has been invited to speak at national and international forums including the United Nations, the World Economic Forum in Davos, the African Union, the Council on Foreign Relations, Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, TED, and Time’s Global Health Summit.

Warren was named one of "America's Top 25 Leaders" in the October 31, 2005 issue of U.S. News and World Report. Warren was elected by TIME magazine as one of 15 World Leaders Who Mattered Most in 2004 and one of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" (2005). Newsweek magazine called him one of "15 People Who Make America Great", an award given to people who, through bravery or generosity, genius or passion, devote themselves to helping others.
 where4
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 17
Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 3:31:41 AM
Whether or not I agree with Pastor Warren, and on many issues I assure you I don't, I believe this shows that Obama is not afraid to show respect for someone who isn't in lockstep with all his own views. There is a humility and a self-confidence in this attitude. Perhaps our country would be less divided than we are now if more of us could adopt such an attitude.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081221/ap_on_re_us/warren_speech

Pastor Rick Warren defends invite to inauguration

By CHRISTINA HOAG, Associated Press Writer

[…]
"You don't have to see eye to eye to walk hand in hand," said Warren.

Warren also defended President-elect Barack Obama's invitation that he give the invocation at the Jan. 20 inauguration in the keynote speech he delivered at the Muslim Public Affairs Council's annual convention in Long Beach.

Obama's choice of Warren earlier this week sparked outcry from gay rights and other liberal groups, who said choosing such an outspoken opponent of gay marriage was tantamount to endorsing bigotry.

"Three years ago I took enormous heat for inviting Barack Obama to my church because some of his views don't agree (with mine)," he said. "Now he's invited me."

Warren said he prays for the same things for Obama that he prays for himself: integrity, humility and generosity.

Obama defended his choice on Thursday, saying that he has also invited Joseph Lowery, a Methodist minister and civil rights leader who supports same-sex marriage and gay rights, to deliver the benediction.

"During the course of the entire inaugural festivities, there are going to be a wide range of viewpoints that are presented. And that's how it should be, because that's what America's about. That's part of the magic of this country ... we are diverse and noisy and opinionated," Obama said.
[…]

I suspect Pastor Warren is not going to be happy about some of the legislative and regulatory changes that will come about during the Obama administration - oh, and not to mention the judiciary... But, on the other hand, having been shown respect and honor by the new president, Warren may be less likely to flagrantly condemn Obama or fan the flames of uber-partisan political division so prevalent in our democratic process of late.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 18
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 7:49:21 AM

I just watched Warren on Dateline NBC, and despite me not being religious, his opinions seem to makee sense.
Wow ... that says a lot about the poster who wrote that ... especially when one considers that Warren says (among other things) that he views gay marriage the same as if ...
**An older man were to marry a child (pedophilia)
or
**A brother & sister were to marry (incest)
or
**A man were to have multiple wives (polygamy)

How can someone promote the idea that gay marriage might even be similar to CHILD ABUSE, or INCEST, or POLYGAMY?

I can understand OBAMA inviting someone from both sides of the "gay marriage" issue but does it have to be someone who gets up on national TV and says things like that? I can understand someone being opposed to gay marriage, but to compare it that way?

I don't believe that was a "good" move ... I don't think that can defended as a "good" move.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 19
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:43:16 PM
Cotter,

I want it to go on the record that I have no bias's against homosexuals.

I think the comparison is because they are all sexual acts. DID NOT SAY IT WAS CORRECT!

Many people continue to connect race (people that were enslaved, and only received all of their rights 40 years ago) to sexual orientation ( suppose to have been presidents (Abraham Lincoln), first ladies (Eleanor Roosevelt), slave owners etc.).

DID NOT SAY HE WAS RIGHT!

The African American community (many) are tired of that comparison.

Obama made an excellent choice.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 20
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 1:24:26 PM

Cotter,
I want it to go on the record that I have no bias's against homosexuals.
I have no idea what that statement has to do with me ...

Many people continue to connect race (people that were enslaved, and only received all of their rights 40 years ago) to sexual orientation ...
Well, I'm not one of them and so
no need to call me out on any of that ... OKAY?

I honestly have never heard of others connecting the two,
but if there are those who believe that is happening ... so be it.
For certain, I am not one of them.

I see no connection between enslavement and homosexuality.
The side of my own family that immigrated here was enslaved and never even gained their freedom the way the black slaves did. So for those who can at least claim their people were set free at some point ...

I can not even say that.
To add to the insult ... the part of my people who did not immigrate here are still kept on reservations. So much for freedoms.

Obama made an excellent choice.
If that's what you believe, then good for you ... I disagree. I'm allowed to do that.

Although we didn't get our freedom given to us the way others did ... from what I understand, we're (my people) still free to disagree.

The contempt I feel for Warren is the same sort of contempt I have for bigots. In one sentence he claims to "love" the gays but in a different sentence he compares "gay marriage" to child abuse, incest, and polygamy.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 21
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:20:34 PM
Cotter,
I said it all wrong. I know that did not relate to you. But, many people keep saying 'how can blacks be so conservative, they should understand'.

Race does not equal sexual preference.

That is all I was saying.

My mouth is now closed.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 22
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:25:23 PM
I too have Indian blood (one eighth I believe) and it is something I've always been proud of.... which is not the case for everyone in my family. Where I live it has always been the Indians who have taken the brunt of racial hostilities. Black people were such a rarity (especially while I was growing up) that most people considered them to be a bit of a novelty... which I suppose can still be hurtful for these people. Indians up here have long been characterized as lazy, alchoholic welfare cases.


Although we didn't get our freedom given to us the way others did ... from what I understand, we're (my people) still free to disagree.


While I am proud of my Indian heritage, I would never be presumptious enough to lay claim that I've felt the sting of predjudice the way people with much darker skin than my own have felt it.... to people who see me walking down the street just see another white boy... the same thing they would be seeing if a white gay guy was walking beside me. I think that's the difference Faith is talking about.


The side of my own family that immigrated here was enslaved and never even gained their freedom the way the black slaves did.


Just curious... where in today's America would there be a race of people still working in chains... maybe a big guy with a whip watching over them?
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 23
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/23/2008 2:03:28 PM
What move will he make next? I think if he breathes too hard it will be analyzed.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 24
Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/23/2008 2:13:38 PM
i am all for gay marriage, not only it has nothing to do with me and also is hilarious, but also they can't have lots of kids, well may be only adopt while Hispanics are having 5 and sometimes 10 kids

This should be deleted. It is racist and ugly and has no part whatsoever in the discussion at hand--or anywhere, in my opinion.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 25
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Obama + Warren sends a sad message
Posted: 12/23/2008 3:00:23 PM
OBAMA needs to be careful about who he picks to hang out with. While he may be his own man, the association of the Warren trick is not necessary.

How many times is he going to be inaugurated as the President Of the United States? Wouldn't you think it should be something he'd want to look back on and be able to be proud or satisfied?

I just don't know that the inauguration is the place or time to be making statements ... of any kind. It's actually quite a moving moment for someone ... eh?

I'm reminded of when I graduated from nursing school. We were told that we needed someone on stage to "pin" us. It was suggested that we select a dearly loved one, perhaps someone who had inspired us. While that person placed the pin on us, one of our instructors introduced the person who would be placing the pin on us and what role they played in our life and also briefly spoke about us as a student.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that ...
I think "once in a lifetime" situations are just not the place to make a "political" statement.
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