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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Scientists Rather create death then life ???      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Phoebus2k7
Joined: 4/16/2005
Msg: 1
Scientists Rather create death then life ???Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Well when i say this....i mean why do they work on weapons that kill? i mean sure there are ones that work on other things in life but they spend billions of dollars on making weapons that kill or destroy entire cities. Now i wonder what kinda world we would live in if that money was used in a way to make life better for ALL and not just a select few. So take your 100billion dollars and put science to work on creating life instead of death. Create away for people to live without worrying about crime..or a money system that keeps you enslaved to a system that is designed for debt. Without any debt there would be no money...

So really....would it not make sense to create a self sustaining abundant world.....instead of ways of killing or destruction ?
 JHVM
Joined: 6/6/2007
Msg: 2
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 10:53:34 AM
SOME engineers work on weapons that kill.

Scientists work on concepts that may be used for weapons but just as often have practical non-agressive applications.
 Dungeon Master
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 3
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 10:53:47 AM
I understand your sentiments, but to secure peace we must prepare for war.
 Phoebus2k7
Joined: 4/16/2005
Msg: 4
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:09:59 AM
War has never been the answer and never will....war is nothing more then corporate take over of another country who wouldnt submit to the wants of the U.S.

Do you really believe war is a path for peace ? i disagree with you 1000%.

War is nothing more. I think if energy was put into ways of creating ways of living without a monetary system which does enslave humans for the rest of their lives. Its one of the most unquestioned forms of faith we have in todays society.

We are technology advanced enough to live in a world without money ....
 forallintents
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 5
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:12:20 AM
Scientists tend to be amoral when it comes to their work. They handle any misgivings about the possible future applications for their discoveries by handing off responsibility to others. Engineers who invent weapons do so because they believe weapons are necessary to protect their freedoms or way of life. Only a small minority of professionals actually intend to help create mass mayhem. Most believe they are working towards some better world, no matter the facts proving otherwise. The work is done within a culture of rationalization that serves to absolve any one individual of guilt, and masks the intent of those few whose aim is indeed evil. You're free to set up a program for scientists to earn a decent living working on projects that promote life. All of the tools of capitalism are at your fingertips should you decide it's a worthwhile undertaking.
 ThatGirlWithTheGlasses
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 6
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:19:11 AM

Do you really believe war is a path for peace ? i disagree with you 1000%.


Well, except for ending Nazism, Imperialism, Fascism and, Totalitarianism...

War never solved anything.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 7
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:20:40 AM
To be fair, I don't see alot of research being done on weapons, least of all revolutionary ones.

The main purpose behind building better weapons isn't because they want people to die- its because they want the cops or the troops to live- so they give them an advantage over the enemy.

>>> War has never been the answer and never will....

There are many, many different ways to live a society- and since the invention of weapons, people have the need to protect their beliefs, their culture, and their idealiogies. Giving you an advantage over your enemies on weapons both saves your soldiers lives and makes the enemies think twice about attacking you to force you to change your idealogy.

>>>We are technology advanced enough to live in a world without money ....

Thats completely irrelivant to the topic- but what should replace money?

I strongly believe that money is the exchange of goods and services on a voluntary basis- that there is no evil in money, but in the ambitions of man who sees money as a means of control. Remove money from sitution, and you will not remove evil from the world- you will simply replace the means to exchange goods and services from a voluntary basis based on a system that acts as a promise of value, to whips, blood, and death.
 ThatGirlWithTheGlasses
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 8
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:21:31 AM

We are technology advanced enough to live in a world without money ....


Living in a world without money is, honestly, like living in a world without war.

Do you imagine what would happen if our currency just vanished over night. It's the same with war.
 Dungeon Master
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 9
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:33:57 AM
I get what you're saying. Who wouldn't want an end to war? But saying, 'everybody - just stop developing weaponry' - history consistently shows which powers survive.

It's not the pacifists.

I don't really get this question, I'm sorry, are we making a the usual sweeping generalisation about 'scientists = amoral, religion=good'? because if so, I'm getting off at the next stop.
 Phoebus2k7
Joined: 4/16/2005
Msg: 10
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:38:01 AM
Well think about this...all the crime we have today is mainly due to money ? right or wrong ?

Money its self cause's war. Look into who supports the war....the banks support each side of the war and supply them the funds. What is the main reason ppl go to war? why would one country want to take over another ?

You seem we have be come so conditioned to believe in the money system...living without it...is like being without air....we wouldnt know what to do.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/resource_eco.htm

there is a site with some good ideas on this....
 Phoebus2k7
Joined: 4/16/2005
Msg: 11
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 11:46:04 AM
Well the question would be "can Scientists create a self sustaining abundant world"

im very aware of the work they do on health and helping create ways of extending our lives. The most money is being spent on destruction and death. So i would challenge them to spend the 100billion dollars or more on ways to make a society that can be self sustaining. We have the resources and renewable energy available to us. We have the technology to even keep oursevles off the energy grid. We dont need to spend money on energy nor even gasoline....with the E cars we have at our fingertips.
 ThatGirlWithTheGlasses
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 12
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:07:26 PM
Sounds like your issue is with money and not necessarily war. As long as there are people, there will always be war. To ignore this is very naive.

And I wouldn't say majority of the crimes committed today are influenced by the lack of money. You're only covering one crime, which is robbery. You're forgetting rape, murder, and other crimes which aren't currency influenced. Money isn't the problem. Is when people start to take advantage of the loopholes in a society in a quest to gain money, no matter who's lives get destroyed. It's called greed.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 13
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:24:16 PM
>>>all the crime we have today is mainly due to money ? right or wrong ?

Wrong. The removal of money will not end crime- If I couldn't trade a stolen TV for money, I could barter it just as well. Hell, the most horrible of crimes- rape, assault, murder- these have nothing to do with money at all....

>>>why would one country want to take over another ?

To enforce an idealogy, a belief, or a religion.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:29:23 PM

Well think about this...all the crime we have today is mainly due to money ? right or wrong ?


Wrong, its due to criminals and we've had criminals long before we had money.
 Phoebus2k7
Joined: 4/16/2005
Msg: 15
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:49:32 PM
okay well not sure if we that is so true....i mean if we had criminals long before we had money. I mean if society was engineer in a way where money was no longer needed.

its not really money that is my problem, just there has to be a way for scientists to come up with a way it can be done. I mean are we more geared towards creating machines of death ?

Im just wondeirng what your thoughts are on this .....
 Concertina
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 16
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:00:27 PM

all the crime we have today is mainly due to money ? right or wrong ?


What does rape have to do with money?
What does slashing someone's tires have to do with money?
You're delusional.

Crime is brought on by ignorance and hate.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 17
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:01:18 PM
>>>I mean if society was engineer in a way where money was no longer needed.

Care to elaborate? How would that work without turning into a socialist state or dictatorship?

>>> just there has to be a way for scientists to come up with a way it can be done.

They are working on it- but throwing down our guns and refusing to keep up with our enemies advances will only ensure our own enslavement.
 forallintents
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 18
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:02:09 PM
We don't view the death machines as such, we view them as machines to protect ourselves from death. It's because as mortals we can be killed and we prefer not to be. Once you solve the problem of mortals being mortal, you will have obviated the need to protect ourselves and then we would no longer create machines that can be used to kill others who might kill us if we did not have adequate defenses. It's not like some ignorant policy maker dreamed up society to be unnecessarily violent on a whim. Technology gets invented to solve problems. The problem that death machines were meant to solve is the problem of getting killed by less sophisticated death machines. This development can be traced back to a rock making for a better weapon than a palm frond did.

The challenge for anyone who seeks to make war obsolete is to establish another means by which conflict can be resolved, for one thing, and secondly, to somehow magically make people invincible so that an army could do no harm.

I disagree that war is a fact of life that can never be changed. I think the main hurdle to peace is that war still serves a purpose for which no other means has yet been invented.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 19
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History
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:03:22 PM
The American Indians had criminals that did nearly every sort of crime that criminals in our society commit, and they didn't have money. Your logic is always lacking.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 20
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History
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:12:36 PM
And most animals will commit what we consider a crime anytime the situation presents its self and they think the can get away with it. Being civilized means living with in what ever the current rules of a society sets. Criminals pick and choose which rules they obey and when they obey them.
 fortran
Joined: 2/21/2004
Msg: 21
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History
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 1:54:57 PM
Money is a counter for value, and people will steal things of value, just so that this thing can be sold to "legitimately" acquire things of value that they do need (but lacked the value to purchase, or didn't want to use the value they had already acquired, however it was acquired).

Some wars are started for resources, especially access to fresh water. Another popular reason has been religious.

Some of science comes from explorations into mathematics, physics, chemistry or biology. It is really hard to say that some new method to solve some particular kind of equation only can result in war, or mostly results in war. Similar statements can be made for most other advances in science. Even us engineers usually don't pursue applications with the idea of killing people. Engineering is supposed to be the safe application of science for the benefit of society.
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 22
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 4:47:32 PM
I don't like war but scientists cannot stop it.

Money is necessary for fair trade of goods and services.
criminals don't use money as fair trade. they steal it if they can.
if there was no money they would just steal the goods.
remember the Vikings ... and I don't mean the football team.
Rape and pillage and no money involved and very primitive weapons.

Its Greed and Jealousy and Tribalism that are the problems ... not Scientists and Money.

Read ... Ann Rand's ... And Atlas Shrugged.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 23
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 4:54:58 PM
So long as dependencies are allowed to dismiss diplomacy, thou shalt do war.
Ideologies, resources, living space, whatever...so long as we become so dependent on something, that adversely affects others, we better be getting ready for some eventual butting of heads. Democracy often leads to the majority wishing their nation to become more independent.
I can't think of any 2 democratic nations who've warred with one another. I have no idea.
Social scientists are probably the folks who'll focus more on avoiding wars.
 Last not Least
Joined: 10/27/2007
Msg: 24
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History
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 4:58:11 PM
War is much like a game where the burden is borne by the downtrodden (read cannon fodder). It is a rare occurance where the goals of the perpetrators benefit the poor but they end up paying the most for it nontheless.
Reminds me of the old chestnut from the 60's.... "Suppose they held a war and nobody came".
If only the solution were so simple.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 25
Scientists Rather create death then life ???
Posted: 12/22/2008 5:11:29 PM
Out of all the wars i am thinking of i can't seem to think of one fought over money. Religion and politics maybe. Yea sure it would be nice if we spent money on good things instead of wars but most people can't even save a few bucks instead of going out to party can they?
My only post here since i know this will be a sensless battle.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Scientists Rather create death then life ???