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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children      Home login  
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 Pyro74
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 1
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young childrenPage 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Here's the article. What your thoughts?

WHITTIER, Calif. – How in the world does a woman with six children get a fertility doctor to help her have more — eight more? An ethical debate erupted Friday after it was learned that the Southern California woman who gave birth to octuplets this week had six children already. Large multiple births "are presented on TV shows as a 'Brady Bunch' moment.

They're not," fumed Arthur Caplan, bioethics chairman at the University of Pennsylvania. He noted the serious and sometimes lethal complications and crushing medical costs that often come with high-multiple births.

But Dr. Jeffrey Steinberg, who has fertility clinics in Los Angeles, Las Vegas and New York, countered: "Who am I to say that six is the limit? There are people who like to have big families."

Kaiser Permanente announced the mega-delivery Monday in Bellflower, with delighted doctors saying they had initially expected seven babies and were surprised when the cesarean section yielded an eighth.

Multiple births this big are considered impossible without fertility treatment, but the doctors who delivered the babies would not say whether the 33-year-old woman had used fertility drugs or had embryos implanted in her womb.

However, the children's grandmother, Angela Suleman, was quoted as telling the Los Angeles Times that her daughter had embryos implanted last year, and never intended to give birth to eight, but "they all happened to take." Suleman said her daughter rejected an offer from doctors to abort some of the embryos.

More common among younger women is the use of fertility drugs that stimulate egg production; doctors are supposed to monitor budding eggs and stop the drugs if too many develop.

Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that the woman was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.

Dr. David Adamson, former president of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, said he was bracing for some backlash against his specialty.

In 30 years of practice, "I have never provided fertility treatment to a woman with six children," or ever heard of a similar case, said Adamson, director of Fertility Physicians of Northern California.

Women seeking fertility treatment are routinely asked to give a detailed history of prior pregnancies and births, and "it's a very realistic question to ask about someone who has six children: How does this fit into the concept of requiring fertility treatment?" Adamson said.

The woman's fertility doctor has not been identified. The hospital has not released the mother's name, citing her desire for privacy. There was no immediate information on whether she is married or who the father of the babies is. Her six other children range in age from 2 to 7.

Records show that she held a psychiatric technician's license from 1997 to 2002. It was unclear whether she is now employed.

It was only the second time in U.S. history that eight babies survived more than a few hours after birth. The six boys and two girls were said to be in remarkably good condition but were expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks.

The mother of the octuplets lives with her parents in a modest, single-story home on a quiet cul-de-sac in Whittier, a Los Angeles suburb of about 85,000. Children's bicycles, a pink car and a wagon were scattered in the yard and driveway.

On Thursday night, the children's grandfather came to the door and angrily told reporters to leave the property.

Court records show Suleman filed for bankruptcy last March, but after she failed to make required payments and appear at a creditors' meeting, the case was dismissed. She reported liabilities of $981,371, mostly money owed on two houses she owns in Whittier.

The births were a hot topic of conversation on the Internet, with many people incredulous that a woman with six children would try to have more — and that a doctor would help her do so. Some criticized the doctor and suggested that the mother would be overwhelmed trying to raise her brood and would end up relying on public support.

Jessica Zepeda, who identified herself as a friend of the mother, said the woman and family would have enough money to raise 14 children. "She is not on welfare," Zepeda said. "She is an awesome mom, and will be able to take care of her babies."

Several doctors said it is not their role to dictate family size.

"I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients," said Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the New York University School of Medicine.

But Caplan said not enough attention is paid to the well-being of the children in high-multiple births. Such babies are often premature and underdeveloped, and are almost always found to have some health problem.

Caplan said everyone has a stake in mega-multiple births because they cause insurance premiums to rise when hospitals cannot get reimbursed for the huge costs such babies incur, and because those with disabilities typically require social services.

"To say all you need is cash and the will to have more kids should not be a sufficient standard to access services," he said. "It is insufficient for adoption. It isn't sufficient to be a foster parent. Why would it be sufficient to run down to the fertility clinic to get embryos transplanted or super-ovulated?"

A few years ago, Caplan and others did a survey of U.S. fertility clinics. They found few had policies for deciding whether to help a woman get pregnant. Most clinics said they had patients meet with financial coordinators, but only 18 percent had them see a social worker or psychologist.

With in vitro fertilization, doctors frequently implant more than one embryo to improve the odds that one will take. Mothers-to-be who are found to be pregnant with several babies are given the option of aborting some of them to increase the chances the others will survive.

The U.S. fertility industry has guidelines on how many embryos doctors can implant, with the number varying by age and other factors. The guidelines call for no more than one or two for a generally healthy woman under 35, and no more than three to five, depending on the embryos' maturity, for women over 40.

If eight embryos were implanted at once, that is "well beyond our guidelines," Dr. R. Dale McClure, president of the reproductive medicine society, said in a statement.

Clinics that clearly violate guidelines can be kicked out of another group, the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology, which in turn affects whether insurance covers their services. But the guidelines do not have the force of law.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 2
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/30/2009 6:31:56 PM
Legally? There is no law against her having 22 kids if she wants. Idiot.

Ethically? Can she support the kids? If not, she's got big problems, something's wrong in her head. She must REALLY think her genes are special! And stupid doctor, too. He's a poor fertility specialist if she had 8 conceptions at once. This is a case where science isn't far enough along to adequately predict the outcome, so it's sort of like Frankenstein medicine.

Personally? I'm against ANYONE having kids. Five-year moratorium on conception! No one should be allowed fertility drugs, EVER!
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 3
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 5:41:45 AM
as long as i'm not footing the bill i don't care how many litters she has.


thats a vile descripition of a mother and her children

Its no ones business...NO ONE except the family thats going to rear the children!

 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 4
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:33:07 AM
it is so irresponsible to have that many kids in her situation that the state should sue the clinic that did it for support. Like going after a dad that doesnt want to support his kid. If they could win you might see a little logic and responsiblity used when these "mad scientists" meddle with mother nature...... Same thing goes for the clinics that get 65 year old women pregnant.... make them pay when the old lady dies and the kid needs raising!
 beehearnow
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 5
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:36:48 AM
Maybe they are looking for a movie of the week or book deal so they can support this large family and get rich in the process.

Personally, I think it is extremely irresponsible of the mother and whomever agreed to provide her with the means to actually become pregnant through fertility treatments, and yes, US taxpayers will most likely be footing at least a portion of the bill to take care of these kids. Public schooling alone, not to mention any medical and/or developmental disability intervention that may be required now and throughout their lives.

She may have a right, assuming she is able to pay, to have access to fertility treatments, but professionals are not obligated to provide them.
 Sweet J-me Baby
Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 6
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 9:20:10 AM
I have so many questions that I would love to ask this woman. First off, invitro fertilization and other fertility treatments cost money and I am guessing that having six children already, she would not qualify to have the procedure(s) covered; but I could be wrong on that. Her family filed for bankruptcy 18 months ago, so where did the money come from?? Who funded it?

Secondly, ultrasounds and such are required at intervals throughout a woman's pregnancy, so unless she was not seeking any medical attention, she and her health care professionals would have known approximately how many babies she was carrying, either by the ultarsounds or by the number of heart beats that would have been detected.

Apparently, the sperm donor is somebody she knows. At least, he knowingly donated his sperm for the first procedure. From what I understand, she froze some of his sperm for the future. So, she knew even at the time that she did it the first time, that she would probably be doing it again. WHY?????????? Does this said donor know his sperm was frozen and did he agree to it? No pun intended, but I thought being a sperm donor was a one-shot deal!

I also hear she plans on breast feeding. Well, unless she comes built with an udder, I'm not sure how she is going to achieve this so each baby is getting sufficient nutrition.


Isn't there some kind of reality tv show where a family has over 16 kids or something like that? I heard about it from someone.


The difference between the two is that the family you are referring to is a married couple and the mother did not give birth to half the brood at one time.


Which raises more questions. How can she provide the loving care a child needs and deserves when she has 14 children under the age of seven? Even with the help of her parents, it will be a struggle. And, what a burden for her parents!!!!

Finally (and I do have more questions, but these are the gist of it) WHAT THE HELL IS SHE THINKING?
 Sweet J-me Baby
Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 7
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 10:29:57 AM
The contract worker who is going to Iraq is her father, according to CNN. I hadn't heard that about her working at a fertility clinic, but that would make a little sense of how she afforded it.

Her own mother said she has been obsessed with having babies for years. I am really concerned about the quality of life these children will have. Just because she wanted more children, does not mean she should have.

If there is one thing that gets my blood boiling, it's things like this. She was not thinking about the children or their future. She was thinking about herself and her own selfish needs and desires and in my opinion, is being highly unrealistic. Children deserve the best possible start in life and throughout their growing years. I just can't see how these children can possibly get it here.

Those children will need the support of the mom's family, the community, and the government in order to stand a fighting chance.

 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 8
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 3:26:27 PM
Yes there is a reality TV show called "17 Kids and Counting" about a family in Arkansas - The Duggers. However the difference is that their children were not conceived with the use of fertility treatments; they are a married couple so the parents have the benefit of sharing the load with each other; they didn't have their children 8 at a time!

And before anyone brings this up, there is also a reality show called "Jon and Kate Plus Eight" about a family whose children were born with the use of fertility drugs - a set of twins and then sextuplets! Again - big differences here - married couple - two pregnancies!

I'm sorry, but a single mom who continues to bring child after child into a world where they will not have the benefit of both parents should be a crime!

As a single mom myself, I can tell you that it is not an easy task, and the kids will suffer no matter how hard you and their dad work at parenting! It is one thing to end up in that situation through divorce, but to choose that time and time again is just irresponsible! This is a selfish woman who does not have her children's best interests at heart!
 Lacquered
Joined: 10/10/2006
Msg: 9
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 5:30:05 PM
What difference is it if 8 unmarried unemployed women give birth to 8 children or one woman to 8? I'm with SA guy on this one, it's really not much of our concern.
As for doctors and how could this happen......
lets not forget that the woman lives in the Los Angeles area, Mexico and cheaper medical proceedures with out all of the guide lines most everyone in the U.S. area subjected to, is a few short hours from where she is located.
I hope the children are fine.
Thats the extent of it!!!!
JMO
Dreams
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 10
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:15:13 PM
They should not be used by a bankrupt single mother of 6

Doesn't fertility treatments cost money?? Was her bankruptcy before or after her treatments. If after ... then I can see what caused her bankruptcy.

as long as i'm not footing the bill i don't care how many litters she has

Ahhh... but you probably will be footing that bill if she's gets welfare or some other form of social assistance. Personally, I think people who can't afford children ... but has them, then expect society to pitch in to help ... should be shot. The parent(s) ... I mean.

as long as i'm not footing the bill i don't care how many litters she has

thats a vile descripition of a mother and her children

Its no ones business...NO ONE except the family thats going to rear the children!

That's a fair description of a mother and her litter if she requires social assistance in any way because it becomes everyone's business if taxpayer's money is used to raise those kids. If you're so accepting of this BS, how about YOU singlehandedly pay her way?? Permissive attitudes like yours make me sick.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 11
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 2/1/2009 2:45:13 AM
There is no reason on Earth that a woman with that many children should be allowed to have fertility treatments for even more.
If there isn't a law or regulation about this sort of thing, there needs to be.
No fertility doctor in the country should be allowed to do that.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 12
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 3:56:54 AM
That's a fair description of a mother and her litter{ if she requires social assistance} in any way because it becomes everyone's business if taxpayer's money is used to raise those kids. If you're so accepting of this BS, how about YOU singlehandedly pay her way?? Permissive attitudes like yours make me sick.


Im glad I bring out the best in you...

PERMISSIVE ATTITUDES...When did not making assumptions about someone, become permissive. Posters are making comments about this Woman and her family as if the had personal knowledge of her personal life...Most only know of her what they have heard on TV or Radio...

I defend a WOMAN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS...that means Its up to the Woman, Her family and Doctor to best decide whats best for her.

If anyone has a Problem with Welfare, then thats a separate issue...Debate Welfare. Since no one know if she is on welfare, I wait to CONDEM her.
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 13
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 8:05:59 AM
there has gotta be an easier way to make a living.....How about doctors working on curing cancer or something... we seem to have lots of babies...

"THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.
Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert after it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.
Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship — she will get through 250 a week in the next few months — and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story.
Octuplets' mother may have had multiple IVF
Her earning power, though, could be diminished by a growing ethical and medical controversy. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilisation (IVF) should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both their health and her own.
 beehearnow
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 14
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:04:15 AM
I read in a couple of articles that at least of the embryos were of the same father (4 previous and the current 8), and the mother said it didn't cost her a thing; that she was paid to do this!!!???!!!
 Lacquered
Joined: 10/10/2006
Msg: 15
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 2:31:04 PM
After watching a news clip, here's my toughts......... She probably didn't even have a doctors help in this.
I "googled" fertility drugs......
and
Got a whole list of them, now armed with that information, I can go down to Mexico and buy over the counter any of them that might be available...... And probably for around $20 ........ LOL
Head home with them, take the pills, and search for a sperm donor. Poof come up pregnate, go back down to mexico and get a sonagram, prob another $20..... Walk into US hospital with the knowledge that I am carrying 7 or more fetus at 12 weeks. Which is past what most doctors consider safe to abort!!!!!
She prob doesnt need psychological help, but if this theory is even remotly correct, thats one scheming lady......
JMO
Dreams
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 16
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 3:30:34 PM
I had heard that she did not have 8 eggs implanted, however one egg can split. That is how you get identical twins.

It is still completely irresponsible to already have 6 children at home and have fertility treatments. If she did obtain the fertility drugs illegally or over the counter, then she made a CHOICE to have those children and she needs to be responsible for raising them. I can see helping someone with one or two - but when they have a litter by choice.....

If she was concerned with the moral implications of abandoning fertilized embroyos, there are plenty of families who would jump at the opportunity to offer a home.

I have a feeling that at least some of those children will end up in foster care.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 17
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:03:47 PM
Now that she's got what she wants... along with the attention and potential commercial income, I wonder who will be watching all of those kids while she's flying across the country taping interviews? I feel for the grandmother.... I think she will lose years off her life with all this anxiety.

Unfortunately, women, it's whack jobs like this who make men think twice about the mentality of women today...... it's scary.

We can't even imagine all the people she will impose upon throughout the years... especially if she's going to deal with post partum depression. I'd be willing to bet eventually, she will have herself admitted to a psychiatric ward (her getaway).

I can just imagine her meeting some guy; he asks her on a date (not knowing about the kids) and she accepts if, "You pay for my babysitter."

Footnote: Obama's economic stimulus package for free condoms shouldn't proceed..... it'll take all that money to support this fvckin' whack job!!!!
 kbodley
Joined: 11/26/2008
Msg: 18
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:57:37 PM
Just to clarify - as far as I have heard, this woman is not on welfare, although I doubt that there is any way that the medical bills for these babies are within the means of the average single mom.

If there is any injustice, it is that there is no way that any one mother can give adequate love, cuddling, and caring to 14 children all under the age of 7. My heart goes out to those babies!

Unfortunately, when we chose to live in a free country, that also includes those whose decisions we think are just plain stupid! (Frankly if we were going to start persecuting people for poor judgement, I would start with anyone that voted for good ole G.W., but that is just my opinion!)
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 19
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/2/2009 8:17:15 AM
^ ^Because most states public assistance programs have medicare/medicaid programs for their clients. The sad fact is that many people who work can't afford health insurance but don't qualify for the public assistance plans either. I don't know about CA but in my state no hospital can turn away a patient regardless of health insurance or lack there of.

I am still trying to figure out how this woman believes she is a child care expert? Producing babies does not make you an expert in caring for them.

There is also talk of taking this mystery dr. to court for malpractice because there are guidelines for how many embryos to implant. This dr. broke those rules. If he does get sued for malpractice, both health insurance and medical care rates in that area are probably going to rise. So I guess the state will have to pay for these children one way or the other.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 20
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/2/2009 10:34:31 AM

I am still trying to figure out how this woman believes she is a child care expert? Producing babies does not make you an expert in caring for them.


In contrast, she's proven not to be that wise therefore, she excludes herself from being an expert. Maybe she's claiming how to expertly exploit children for her own benefit?

In that way, she cares for them... as long as she's getting something in return.


There can't be a positive ending to this story.
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 21
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/2/2009 2:41:18 PM
the doctors are technically the fathers so they should be dragged to court for support. that would stop them from playing god
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 22
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/2/2009 5:13:07 PM

Someone needs to tell this lady its not a clown car, its a vagina.


She'd probably have that stunned look and tilt her head like a confused puppy when you break that news to her. I'm trying to gain a positive perspective on this matter.... I can't think of any.

I'm beginning to think that man who went back to his homeland will never come back... he knows what he is dong.
 AbuAlMashaakil
Joined: 3/20/2007
Msg: 23
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:25:20 PM
This woman is disgusting. A typical deadbeat. What has she contributed to this world other than 14 mouths that, up until now, she has been incapable of feeding herself? I think it is better to have a father and a mother raise a child together. It provides a support system for parents and a level of diversity in parenting. Isn’t diversity touted? It’s not PC to say it, but having a decent father in a child’s life is a good thing for development. That being said, if a woman is going to have a child on her own, she should be able to pay for the kid herself. Is a broke and unemployed woman entitled to have all the kids she wants? Not really. She should be responsible. I’d like a Bentley, but I am not going to go and get one and expect taxpayers to foot the bill. By the way, my Bentley would be much cheaper than these kids. She plans on being a childcare expert? How is she qualified? By dumping her kids on grandma while she continues her education? Outrageous! Perhaps she will be an expert on establishing a daycare system to take care of her kids. Isn’t California bankrupt? Stupid people like this are the reason. Perhaps she will make money off of her kids so Californians and American taxpayers won’t have to pay for her irresponsible and selfish actions. However, I don’t think this kind of behavior should be rewarded. People, have kids you can afford and raise them on your own dime. As for the doctors, their unethical behavior deserves a thread of its own. Outrageous!
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 24
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Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/3/2009 3:45:23 AM
That's a fair description of a mother and her litter if she requires social assistance in any way because it becomes everyone's business if taxpayer's money is used to raise those kids. If you're so accepting of this BS, how about YOU singlehandedly pay her way?? Permissive attitudes like yours make me sick


PERMISSIVE ATTITUDES...When did not making assumptions about someone, become permissive. Posters are making comments about this Woman and her family as if the had personal knowledge of her personal life...Most only know of her what they have heard on TV or Radio...

Unless you know this person or have foreknowledge that the two of you will cross paths in order for you to gain more insight ... I would suspect your source of information is rather weak ... which seem to be self-formulated based solely on "rights" ... thus the permissive attitude.

I defend a WOMAN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS...that means Its up to the Woman, Her family and Doctor to best decide whats best for her.

If anyone has a Problem with Welfare, then thats a separate issue...Debate Welfare. Since no one know if she is on welfare, I wait to CONDEM her

What best for her?? Re-read what you've just said here, buddy. Consider what's best for the children before spouting "WOMAN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS". Caring for 14 kids is an enormous undertaking ... financially and emotionally. Since she's a single mom ... I would hazard a guess there's no dad around to provide the paternal aspects of that child rearing you're talking about. Financially, unless she's independently wealthy ... welfare will figure prominently in the equation. Perhaps you should wake up from that little fantasy of yours clouding your head.

Yes, we know your kind ... you're among those who advocate rights ... "my rights" ... "their rights" ... "everyone's RIGHTS". You speak of "rights" without uttering so much as a syllable of the word RESPONSIBILITY. Perhaps you need some "lefts" to go with those "rights".
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 25
Woman who gave birth to octuplets already has six young children, Sould It be anybody business?...
Posted: 2/3/2009 4:40:06 AM
Like FREE SPEECH I do defend a Woman Right to to decide with HER FAMILY, and HER DOCTOR what is best for HER(them).

Like free speech, I may not agree with the person's decesion, but I DEFEND their Right to choice.

I was supprised how a "Private Citizen" in America could have their Private Life scrutinized by the Everyone...Media. Of which most had no personal knowledge of this person's private life. I might be worng, but when did this woman come out ask anyone for ANYTHING...

I was also supprised on how many Posters had not just critical, but IMO, vile things to say about this person. If you disagree with her desicion thats cool, but to refer to her children, or any children as a "Litter"...

Excuse me if I withhold judgement...especially if it's the "6 o'clock News" giving me thier take on the story...

I may be DEAD WRONG...My head may be up my ass..."Out of the Norm"...
But I still and will defend this woman right to Privacy, Choice and the right to living her life from under the Microscope of the "media" checking into every detail of her private life...How many of us would like or would allow this type of scrutiny.
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