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 silky tesoro
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 1
Picton family suing the government Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I'm sure most of you remember the serial killer Robert Picton from Port Coquitlam. Well i heard on CKNW today his family is suing the Government for damages made to their brothers farm. They said their land was left in a shambles and now they can't do anything with it.
What the heck is going on? Their land was ripped up so the police could find the bodies of his victims so their families could finally lay them to rest. They say their land is worthless now and want the government to pay for damages. Unbelievable how disrespectful and self centred the Picton family is thinking they could possibly regain any money back after his hanis crimes. We, the tax payers are already paying for his lawyers. Should we, the landscape for the government have to pay anymore to this family?
What are your thoughts on this?
 red_relaxed
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 2
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/6/2009 11:09:06 PM
It is my understanding that the property in question was an eyesore for years before Robert Picton was arrested and convicted of homicide. He had been offered a small fortune for the property by land developers and refused to sell on numerous ocassions prior to his arrest. Guess we know why now.


Unbelievable how disrespectful and self centred the Picton family is

Yup, they're stuck with it, nice legacy...and so sickening for people to have drive by there every day.

I vote no.

The Picton case was estimated at over 130 million, more than the Air India investigation and trial.

Still can't eat pork.
 WesternWildRose
Joined: 9/15/2008
Msg: 3
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History
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/6/2009 11:39:43 PM
Sucks to have a murderer in the family eh?

Canada Customs don't help you put your car back together after they strip it down to the rims at the Border.
They don't apologize and replace your luggage if they tear it open or a sniffer dog pees on it at the airport.
Law enforcement armed with a subpeona do not go thru your home and possessions with a kid glove when they are searching your home, work, car, storage locker, etc.
They don't help put things back in their rightful place or help you tidy up or replace broken or damaged items as a result of the search.

The Picton situation was a massive search.
If the tables were turned they would want all stones uncovered to find evidence....well I could only hope they would think that way.

Perhaps 'The Family' should of been more intuned as to what was going on at the farm.... seems like a lot of other people knew.
There has to be some accountability by the owners of the property.
 ScotttishLassie
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 4
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/6/2009 11:50:55 PM
Shocking how the picton family is so concerned about their property, and the way it was handled by law enforcement....considering their relative murdered all these poor women. What they should be concerned about is the victims families , if they had any kind of compassion at all they'd be less concerned about the state the farm is in and be more considerate of the the victims families feelings. I am sure it is just heartbreaking and would leave a big lump in a person's throat to drive by that farm on a daily basis knowing what was done or what happened to a relative of yours by Willy Pickton...I am disgusted that they are more concerned about the value/worth of their property/land etc than of what transpired on that property...Shocking how insensitive people can be...My heart definately goes out to all the victims families....
 The PigWig
Joined: 10/19/2008
Msg: 5
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Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 8:17:44 AM
A Travesty.

Hopefully someone in the legal system will have the balls to never allow this to find it's way into the courts. I say they are lucky to even have the f-in property.

Strange world indeed
 silky tesoro
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 6
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 9:25:54 AM
I couldn't agree with you more pigwig.
I am appalled at the lack of compassion that family has for the victims and their families ! Suing the Government for damages to their land has taken this case to a whole other level. Disgusting !
 One Tall Mama
Joined: 6/22/2008
Msg: 7
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 9:50:06 AM
What about the families of the victims? The Gov't should have seized the property and sold it to pay for Robert Picton trail... and the profits should have be given to the the families of the victims. What did the Victim's family get out of this mass murderer? They will be living with this tragedy for years.
 mrchicken
Joined: 5/16/2008
Msg: 8
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 1:19:54 PM
I'm not sure about any damage done.
What did the police tell the Picton family?
Exactly what was damaged?
If the Picton family is guilty why are'nt they in prision as well?
 Halokitty™
Joined: 5/29/2008
Msg: 9
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 1:27:46 PM
I did a huge year long report on Pickton back in high school (before the convictions but during the arrests). I've seen his farm. It was a nightmare before investigators got there. You don't keep pigs like he did and have a nice looking farmland.

His whole family is as messed up as he is and I have no problems saying that I'm 90% sure his brother had something to do with all those killings. They both have criminal records going back years. Pickton himself, I believe (if I remember correctly), had a charge laid against him back in the 70s for stabbing a prostitute in the throat. She managed to escape from the car and run for help. I might be mistaken, though.

And as for his brother not being in prison as well, its rather simple: There's not enough evidence to connect him to the murders. Or anyone in the family. Despite how Willy Pickton depicts himself in court, as being a bumbling, low IQ'd individual: He's not. He's an exceptional con man and a good liar. He's not stupid. Neither is his brother.

Anyway, this is ridiculous. It's not exactly like the land can't be used again. I doubt they'll win or get far with this case. The "damage" done to the farm was necessary to retrieve evidence in relation to a crime that Willie was charged (and convicted) of.

What burns my butt about this case is that there is talk that he will NOT be tried for the REST of the murders he's charged with. Too expensive, or some stupid lame excuse.

If that were my daughter, or sister, or mother, who was in the second list of charges and they were never read and he was never convicted of them, I'd feel as if he got away with them. That he wasn't held accountable for those murders.

Willie Pickton is a leech. A disgusting parasite that should be fed to his pigs. The man isn't worth the skin he's wearing, in my opinion.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 10
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 1:59:16 PM
If Robert Pickton was actually the Owner, or one of the Owners of that Property, then they have no Case. If he wasn't, then the Family is entitled to Damages.

His Family is not guilty of his Crimes.
 You go first
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 11
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 2:11:44 PM
The 2 Picton boys and their sister inherited this property from their parents. Yes, it was a sludge pit for years but the whole area was agricultural before the vinyl invasion came in.

It's probably the brother (Dave) that is suing as my understanding is the sister is trying to distance herself as much as possible from the boys. I can't imagine Robert (Willy) has much of a legal leg to stand on.

How sad all around.
 Light Storm
Joined: 5/23/2006
Msg: 12
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Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 3:17:27 PM
Ugh... you want a point a finger at someone, it should be at the media... Why do we care what his family's beef with the government might be... is it going to effect us in our daily lives in anyway? I think CKNW's air time would be better spent talking about science and research... but I doubt you would be as inclined to listen to it.
 silky tesoro
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 13
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 3:55:45 PM
If that was an attempt at insulting me, it didn't work

I am interested in science and research also BUT, the topic for this thread is:
"Picton family suing the government. "

I will put it in simple terms for you.
By the Picton family suing the Government, we the tax payers will be paying for it.
And why point the finger at the media? They are merely informing the public/taxpayers what is up and coming.
 Light Storm
Joined: 5/23/2006
Msg: 14
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Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 4:12:59 PM
Silky Tesoro

No, it was in no way an insult on you, for that matter I applaud your interest in current events. I think my post was just disappointment in some of the things I read about every day in the papers and on the Internet. Sometimes I read something, and just wonder how it helps us move ahead as a people... and I think a lot of things we do to one another is holding us back. I think the entire 'legal' system needs an overhaul, and it seems the priority of the legal system is in bed with the media system. Stuff that isn't headline news gets shoved to back burners.

You are right, we the taxpayers should have a choice on systems we 'have' to buy into... I don't like our current option, it's like a computer program that's so full of bugs that it's hard to understand and when you grasp onto something that seems to make sense, the program crashes.
 DAKOTATRUCKCOUNTRY
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 15
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 6:05:45 PM
Ahhhhh, the Picton Trial all over again, and the dramatic saga related to it, contnues except this time, the Picton Family sueing the Government.

Yes, Robert Picton was charged, and maybe not on all accounts that he should been charged for.

And the media, it just seems like they just don't leave things like this alone, they have to beat at it, to stir up peoples emotions, and get people all p i s s e d off again, and for what, the medias own satisfaction of getting us news.

Picton has been charged, so ok time for the MEDIA, to let it go, and MOVE ON, and bring us something newer, to talk about, instead of hashing out what happened in the past, or what is related to what happened in the past.

THAT, is what the MEDIA should be concentrating on, instead of the Picton Family sueing the Government.

Example, since this Canadian Economic Action Plan Budget For 2009 has been released, I would much rather know HOW, that budget is going to effect or improve our economic condition, what area of jobs are going to be stimulated, so that people can go back to work.

THAT, would be more interesting to listen to, that the Media can tell us more about, then the damn Picton Family.

And OP, I am referring to the Media, and not you, just thought I would clarify that.
 knottttyboy
Joined: 1/30/2009
Msg: 16
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/7/2009 10:11:07 PM
I had read an article the other day stating the B.C. government had put a $10 million lean on the Picton property to pay for his lawyers and the families and what ever else the case had accrued
 Trulio
Joined: 12/26/2005
Msg: 17
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Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:10:37 PM
If one of the tenants in common carried out great crimes that resulted in the ruin of much of the value of the property, then the other tenants can sue the tenant that caused the ruin, only after it is sold...unfortunately the one that caused all the ruination, has no assets, other than his share in the land which is probably an undivided interest. The other tenants get a court order to sell the land, pay to fix it up and seek damages after it is sold from the bad common tenant. I see no basis for a claim regarding the damage done by the province and the federal government....if you cannot get insurance for the damage from the bad tenant, then the only course is to sell the land, do what is necessary to clean it up and sell it, but also get costs awarded from the bad tenants share of the final sale.

This is like the reverse of 'unjust enrichment'....wherein one tenant improves the value of common property, and is not compensated later (whether the tenant owned the land or not). Only one tenant has to benefit unjustly...

Similar cases might be when one tenant stores toxic wastes on common property which the other tenants do not know about....basically it relates to negligence (whether criminal or civil)....
 viper6996
Joined: 2/20/2008
Msg: 18
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:42:50 PM

If one of the tenants in common carried out great crimes that resulted in the ruin of much of the value of the property, then the other tenants can sue the tenant that caused the ruin, only after it is sold..


Can you explain your position a bit better?

I think I know of what area of law you are referring to ( and I mean going WAY back) but I would like to hear your theory.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 19
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:03:37 PM
... David Francis Pickton and Linda Louise Wright, described in court documents as lawful owners of undivided interests of the property ...

http://www.theprovince.com/Robert+Pickton+brother+sister+government/1257651/story.html

"undivided interests" is the Key-Word here, implying Co-Ownership/Inheritance. That may be a legal Conundrum in its own Right.

The Police in Fact did demolish, remove, destroy and render uninhabitable or useless, various Buildings, Infrastructures, Equipment and Machinery.

Just because you investigate someone, does not give anyone the Right, whether found guilty or not, to leave the Property damaged and contaminated. Part of the Cost of investigating should also incl. restoring the Property back to the Condition it was originally in.

The Gov't can only Lien the Ownership Interests of Robert Pickton himself, the Court would have to divide it, thus their $ 10 Million Lien ain't worth the Ink its written on, and to easy to take off.

We'll never know until a Judge rules on it, or they settle out of Court. Further, the Robert Pickton Appeal is getting on its Way March 2009 ... so its not over until the fat Lady sings ...

If one of the tenants in common ...

There are no Tenants.
 PhatFat the WaterRat
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 20
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:38:16 PM

Just because you investigate someone, does not give anyone the Right, whether found guilty or not, to leave the Property damaged and contaminated. Part of the Cost of investigating should also incl. restoring the Property back to the Condition it was originally in.


A bit off topic but does this apply to Customs as well?? I know personally of folks who had their vehicle almost completely dismantled and everything ransacked on the A$$umption they had illegal property in said vehicle... they were innocent. Insurance wouldn't cover it either.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 21
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:40:59 PM
Well, I suppose destroying someone's property might be a concern if they hadn't brutally murdered several women, but since the police were right this time and ripped the place a part to find that Pickton family member was a serial killer, the family needs to vanish and stop this nonsense. I have an incredibly hard time beleiving that they did not know that they one of the family members was doing something really nasty. In fact, some would say they enabled their serial killing relative to slaughter the innocent. SO GET OVER IT PICKTONS!
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 22
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:40:28 PM
A bit off topic but does this apply to Customs as well??

I know personally of folks who had their vehicle almost completely dismantled and everything ransacked on the A$$umption they had illegal property in said vehicle... they were innocent.

Absolutely, but you'll likely have to sue them.

Well, I suppose destroying someone's property might be a concern if they hadn't brutally murdered several women, but since the police were right this time and ripped the place a part to find that Pickton family member was a serial killer, the family needs to vanish and stop this nonsense.

Separate Issue altogether. "Right" or "Wrong" is immaterial.

If you and your Sister inherited your Mom's House, making you half Owner, and the Property was destroyed and your Sister jailed by the Gov't, you would sue too. Would you say to yourself: "Well yeah, she was guilty, I'll relinquish my $ 250,000 Share."

You would sue too. You are not going to let anyone screw you out your Inheritance because of what someone else did.

It just looks different because of the horrific Crimes committed by Pickton, and we no longer see the Logistics, Rights and Law, but try to rationalize everything in Terms of "An Eye for an Eye".

I have an incredibly hard time beleiving that they did not know that they one of the family members was doing something really nasty.

Unless it can be proven, that is only speculative. I doubt they knew about any Killings, but were probably quite aware Robby was slumming it up with the Crack Whores.

In fact, some would say they enabled their serial killing relative to slaughter the innocent.

You can't dis-enfranchise Ownership by Speculation. H*ll, lets bring back small Town Burning at the Stake for practicing Heresy or Witchcraft.
 silky tesoro
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 23
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/9/2009 9:10:28 AM
I'm going to play devils advocate for a minute.

Let's turn the tables and say the victims families want compensation for the loss of their family members in this tragic serial killing. They decide to sue the Picton family for damages (or sue Roberts share of the property) like stress, loss of work, any court costs, and the loss of a family member. The Picton family would then have to go through court proceedings to prove why they shouldn't have to pay. They could say their property is worthless and they have no money, but if the Government pays the Picton family restitution, then that money should be paid to the Victim's families. It's a vicious circle. Where does it end?
I would like to hear your opinions on this.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 24
Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/9/2009 11:10:08 AM
The Picton family would then have to go through court proceedings to prove why they shouldn't have to pay.

They can only rightfully claim Robert Pickton's Portion. If that wasn't the Case, Bro & Sis wouldn't be suing for Damages right now.

They could say their property is worthless and they have no money, but if the Government pays the Picton family restitution, then that money should be paid to the Victim's families.

The Property was rezoned in 2002/2003 and is assessed at $ 4 Million. You cannot sue the Brother & Sister for Robert's Acts.

Certain Statues dealing with Poaching gives the Gov't the Power to seize Vehicles & Equipment, even other Assets. We are here dealing with a Property which has belonged to the Family for many Years passed down to the children and cannot disenfranchise every Owner because of the Crimes by the one.

Just because the heinous Acts were perpetrated on the Property, does not give anyone the Right to take it away. Even the Gov't has to state its Claim, currently in the Form of a Lien, and show the Court their Prosecution Costs to get some of the Expenses back.

The Victim Families can also sue, but that would be Pointless, as he doesn't have anything left to give ... other than his Soul to the Devil, figuratively speaking.
 Mountain Lion 1
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 25
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Picton family suing the government
Posted: 2/9/2009 11:47:53 AM

"undivided interests" is the Key-Word here, implying Co-Ownership/Inheritance. That may be a legal Conundrum in its own Right.

ticket
the legal title of ownership depends on the wording, it is either:

one sole owner,

joint tenancy
whereby all named own an equal share and upon the passing of one the remaining others share again equally all of the property. In joint tenancy, the share of a joint tenant who dies goes to the surviving joint tenants until there is but a single survivor (right of survivorship), at which time the sole survivor owns the whole. It can get a bit complex when one party dies and the property is passed on to the next, specially when spouses are involved and children.

When two or more persons are equally owners of some property.
The unique aspect of joint tenancy is that as the joint tenancy owners die, their shares accrue to the surviving owner(s) so that, eventually, the entire share is held by one person.
A valid joint tenancy is said to require the "four unities": unity of interest (each joint tenant must have an equal interest including equality of duration and extent), unity of title (the interests must arise from the same document), unity of possession (each joint tenant must have an equal right to occupy the entire property) and unity of time: the interests of the joint tenants must arise at the same time.
If the instrument which purports to create a joint tenancy is ambiguous, that could lead to the Court reading into it a tenancy in common.
As was stated by Justice Joyce in Re Wooley:

or tenants in common
with tenants in common the ownership can be based on a percentage interest, where when such a property owner dies, his/her share goes to his estate.

Each tenant in common has a distinct share in property which has not yet been divided among co-tenants. Thus tenants in common have quite seperate interests. The only fact which brings them into co-ownership is that they both have shares in a single property which has not yet been divided among them. While the tenancy in common lasts, no one can say which of them owns any particular parcel of land.

The size of each (co-tenant's) share is fixed once and for all and is not affected by the death of one of his companions. When a tenant in common dies, his interest passes under his will or intestacy, for his undivided share is his to dispose of as he wishes.as such it becomes part of the estate.

What ever may be the case of devision in this instance I suspect the courts will decide entitlement for compensation (if warranted) in accordance to the ownership, which will have to be established based on the findings of the evidence brought fourth by the claimant. Obviously there is legal documentation, else the case is dismissed.
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