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Show ALL Forums  > British Columbia  > Wire-tapping versus your privacy      Home login  
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 1
Wire-tapping versus your privacyPage 1 of 1    
Wire-tapping versus your privacy

In order for the police to get authorization to monitor someone's telephone communication they need to meet a long list of requirements. These requirements are safe guards, to protect your privacy. Unfortunately by the time the police meets all the requirements and authorization is granted the trail to the criminal has often gone cold and the wire-tap authorization has little effect.

Trying to cope with the escalating gang violence in the province British Columbia Attorney General Wally Opal and others are trying to change our laws to make it easier for police to get wire-tapping authorization.

It is likely those sought changes would impact your privacy.

How do you feel about that? Are you prepared to relinquish some of your privacy in the hope that will help take reduce violent crime?

Those that live close to where the gang violence is more common might feel differently than those further away.

I have no covert communications I need to hide; and I have mixed feelings about this.
Joined: 9/21/2008
Msg: 2
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 12:47:33 PM
Why Tyee, you came back!

OT, I have nothing to hide, so no worries. But this topic could be perceived as a moot point. IMHO Thinking maybe we should just wait and discuss if and when it becomes something we need to worry about.
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 3
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 12:59:24 PM
Wire-tapping versus your privacy

Freedom & Privacy ... some pretty big Words which mean little without Qualification.

Freedom from Drug Dealing, Assault & Shootings in your Neighbourhood is a good start.

Am I worried about being wiretapped?

Nope. I don't break the Law, have no Reason to look over my Shoulder.

I trust the Police for the most Part to use these Powers responsibly. Besides, they only serve to present Evidence in Order to prosecute Lawbreakers.

Is my Right to protect my Privacy more important than putting Gangs behind Bars?

I don't think so. The Means serve the Ends, and anything they can use to get these Elements off our Streets and make our Neighbourhoods safer is a positive Step.

Far better Causes would be served implementing these new Laws to give Law Enforcement the Power to wiretap than merely my Sense of Privacy.

People have been complaining for Years to put the Lid on these Crime Syndicates. And where there is a Way, and its not excessively unreasonable, I am all for it.

The entire Point of Wiretapping is to get a Conviction. Why would they bother with me who doesn't have a Criminal Record, isn't involved in illegal Activities?

If however this Power would be extended to permit the Taxman to record your Discussions with your Accountant, your Freedom Movement Group monitored, then I would consider that Power abused.

But as Wally Opal stated, its for the Purpose of of running after organized Crime & Gangs.

I would need to see the exact Legislation before commenting on it any further.
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 4
view profile
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:01:00 PM
Depends on what privacy I'm relinquishing. I'd have to know more to decide how I feel.
 * L *
Joined: 7/13/2007
Msg: 5
view profile
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:07:58 PM
I would like to see them do whatever it takes to get the BAD GUYS

If im doing something that could harm my reputation if taped than im not doing something good....

and here i am posting more filler to post a message that is shorter than needed to be able to trace
Joined: 1/13/2009
Msg: 6
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:28:36 PM

Trying to cope with the escalating gang violence in the province British Columbia Attorney General Wally Opal and others are trying to change our laws to make it easier for police to get wire-tapping authorization.

Tyeee, in my opinion, this is a moot point. When the changes to the laws regarding police obtaining a warrant to wiretap a suspect actually hit the legislative floor and we can clearly see what the attorney general is "tampering" with, then we all can make an informed decision as to what our response is regarding this topic.
I have found that a lot of times politicians will say anything the public wants to hear, especially 2 months before a provincial election.
Joined: 5/29/2008
Msg: 7
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 1:45:12 PM
I've done nothing wrong so why should I worry about a bunch of cops listening to me yap with my mother about the great deal on pork ribs I got ($2/lb) or blubber to my dad about how broke I am. I've got nothing to hide so look/listen all ya want.

If it's going to help reduce the gang violence, I'm all for it.
Joined: 9/15/2008
Msg: 8
view profile
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:35:56 PM
I am not associating with any criminals to my knowledge....hope they don't misdial and call me late night by

anyhow... I am one of those freaks that doen't have a problem with surveillance.

If this is a tool that will help crack down on these felons I say equip our law enforcement with it now.

Major cities like London have cameras in the city core to protect themselves from terrorists and to keep an eye on the rowdies. Been like this for years.
Perhaps we need to have more action than talk of rights to privacy.

Here we are too concerned with infringement of rights.
What about the protection of the public?

When you weigh them both...well I know which side I want to be on.

as for the gang situation...I say if they have no regard for innocent bystanders and those caught in the crossfire...well let's see how they like it when we show up at their family homes. Perhaps it is time law enforcement goes after some of that money...that is stashed about in the form of homes for Mom and Pops and nice new cars and toys.
Hit them in the lifestyle belt and let's see their families....let's see what the profits of crime pays for these days.
Joined: 10/19/2007
Msg: 9
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 2:47:23 PM
Looky at the creativity here....

JFC. Can't we create a thread that isn't a cut and paste from the news?

Privacy is a right. Start letting your police and Governement curcumvent your rights and look out
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 10
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 4:02:01 PM
I like this thread and think it has a lot of potential. The cut and paste news item is a springboard for discussion.

I agree with all those posters who have said they are not doing anything wrong so they are not concerned about the wire-tapping. People would die from boredom if they listened to some of my phone conversations.

I believe the AG is serious in his efforts to reduce gang violence and do not believe it is a political ploy. Many of us are very concerned about escalating gang violence. Why wouldn't politicians be concerned also? Futhermore, Wally Oppal, a former lawyer, is well aware of all judicial loops that are keeping people like the Bacon brothers out of prison.

The truth of the matter is that people would die from bordom if they listened to most of our conversations. We are only legends in our own minds.

Prohibition of soft drugs is part of the problem, but it seems to me we are not quite ready to do away with this yet, but I think in time it will happen.
 silky tesoro
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 11
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 4:05:38 PM

People would die from boredom if they listened to some of my phone conversations.

I'll pass it on
 You go first
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 12
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 7:17:25 PM
I have a cordless phone and anyone within a couple hundred feet with a baby monitor could potentially listen in. Like the majority of citizen's, I'm not doing anything to worry about and don't associate with those that do.

I really don't have a problem with phone tapping BUT obviously they would have to have SOME qualifiers to get the tap, not just to see what I'm ordering from Pizza Hut on any given night. Actually, I didn't realize how hard it was to get a wiretap - must be watching too much Law & Order.....
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 13
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/22/2009 8:10:15 PM
^ I think most people have cordless phones. However, I am not sure that they all work within a couple of hundred of feet of the phone jack.

I am pretty sure nobody will tap your phone . . . unless it is a mistake.

Brothers and sisters, I hate to tell you this, but this is not 1984. No one cares. Get over yourselves. Cause Big Brother just aint watching. The problem with big brother is that he is overscheduled like everyone else in Western society and would love to spy, but just doesn't have the time. This is a rather sad commentary, but life goes on at the speed of light.

On a more serious note, I hate to be a Cassandra, but gang wars are the most serious problem we have in our province currently so you should be happy someone is taking action despite what you believe his motives are. Because if the problem is not brought under control, it is going to touch all of us sooner or later on a personal level.
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 14
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/24/2009 2:50:13 AM
If the cops are going to get the authorization to wire tap, then wire tap the gangs, and leave the innocent people alone, who have absolutely NOTHING to do with the crime.

Far, too many innocent people get accidently caught up in this c r a p.
Joined: 2/12/2009
Msg: 15
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 3/24/2009 10:25:15 AM
I remember watching an interesting NOVA documentary on PBS a while back. "The Spy Factory" focuses on the National Security Agency in the USA. The NSA was criticized for not responding well to intelligence that might have prevented the 9/11 attacks. The American government responded by changing their laws on intelligence gathering.


Three times the size of the CIA and far more secret, the NSA is comprised of top linguists, mathematicians, and technologists trained to decipher all kinds of communications—epitomizing the hidden world of high-tech, 21st-century surveillance. To show how this eavesdropping operates, NOVA follows the trail of just one typical e-mail sent from Asia to the U.S. Streaming as pulses of light into a fiber-optic cable, it travels across the Pacific Ocean, coming ashore in California, and finally reaching an AT&T facility in San Francisco, where the cable is split and the data sent to a secret NSA monitoring room on the floor below. This enables the NSA to intercept not only most Asian e-mail messages but also the entire U.S. internal Internet traffic.

Thus, since 9/11, the agency has turned its giant ear inward to monitor the communications of ordinary Americans, many of whom are on the government's secret watch list, now more than half-a-million names long.

But how effective is this monumental monitoring effort in countering security threats? The NSA is faced with an enormous and ever-expanding archive of phone calls and e-mail messages. Many experts in data mining and analysis are skeptical about the value of collecting so much information without the ability to understand it, as it may lead to critical clues being lost in the static.

Addressing the question, Are we any safer now than we were before?, Bamford says, "We should have been safe the way it was. NSA had all the information that it needed to stop the 9/11 hijackers. It had laws that allowed it to track the hijackers." Bamford adds that those same laws also protected the privacy of ordinary Americans in ways that have since vanished.

This matter in the Unitied States is admittedly different from what we are seeing here, and a different scale, but is related, and often we follow their lead, or are forced to because we are their little neighbours. US security policy changes have led to changes in Canada, but they also spend a whole lot more money on such matters than Canadians tend to spend.

Ultimately if monitoring my communications improves the safety of me and my fellow citizens I have no strong objection.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 16
view profile
Wire-tapping versus your privacy
Posted: 4/5/2009 9:20:22 AM
Well, now isn't this ironic coming right after my post about the difference between driver point premiums and surveillance!

General surveillance is never just about bad people because there's no way to tell who's "bad" until you investigate. The US constitution and much Canadian law assert that there are to be no "fishing expeditions" - there must be a good reason (and any such decision requires a judge) to investigate anyone. After all, it's not hard to find something to abuse just about anything for, often things people had no clue about.

But that info, if gathered on EVERYONE, is readily and demonstrably abused. Canadians have had their info delivered to politicians, who revealed them in public either for political effect or to seek to discredit them. Political parties have been spied on and "dirty tricks" have been played. Nixon's white house is a classic example of people who had no reason to fear they were guilty of anything being spied on, lied to, victimized by false rumors or outright accusations, and worse: spying on political plans, pre-empting actions and declaring people "enemies" to be abused by their government agencies. Bush's administration tagged "non-Bushies" to be excluded from jobs or promotions. Police have used government records in the Vancouver area and in parts of the US to supply information about where doctors providing abortion services live, and this has led to harassment, property damage, intimidation and a bunch of murders. Companies try to discredit or attack unionists or those investigating health or safety problems.

Has everyone forgotten blacklisting? It still goes on - well documented. There's even a book on blacklisting in Canada, THE UN-CANADIANS.

There's every reason why ordinary, law-abiding citizens SHOULDd fear random searches and seizures: every such stop bears considerable inconvenience, can be used as harassment (BC drivers who piss cops off have found they get inspection notices for no reason other than to force them to pay for endless inspections to no purpose) and can result in a jittery cop blowing their heads off. A significant risk accompanies every such action.

The excesses of panic in the post-World-Trade-Centre-Murders world has shown us a plethora of such examples.

Law enforcement can and should get wiretaps - after proving to a judge there is valid reason. And eventually, those tapped should have an opportunity to find out and have records removed if there has been no prosecution or further indication of criminal activity.

This is already a very streamlined process - in most areas, judges are available round the clock and can process a properly documented request in a just a couple of hours. Most of these urgent gang-related crime investigations take months or years, and there is PLENTY of time for proper documentation. There is NO excuse for removing judicial oversight from the process.

Crime fear-mongers like to pass stiffer laws even while cutting funding for enforcement and punishment, and then blame judges. That helps nothing.

Don't let anyone call you a criminal for defending your privacy. No judge will let you do it if there's no good reason to stop you. We can't keep every agent of government honest, so we can't blindly trust them all - we need safeguards. Somebody "watching the watchers."

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