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 A.F.D.
Joined: 2/4/2005
Msg: 1
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Jesus was a SocialistPage 1 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
It always baffles me that so many christians are hard-core capitalists when the religion was founded by someone who was clearly a Socialist/Pacifist.

For example, and I'm paraphrasing as I don't actually have a bible on me.
SOCIALIST
"Give to all those who beg from you"
"If someone steals your coat give them your under-coat"
"It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"
PACIFIST
"Love those who hate you"
"If someone strikes you, turn the other cheek and let them strike you again"
"Do not resist evil"

I could go on but you get the point.

My question is, how do people justify the whole "Christian right" "Bible and a gun" thing, when it seems to me that Jesus (in all likelihood) would have chased them outta the temple with a big stick.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 2
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 3/30/2009 2:07:49 AM
Its funny because in the past weekend, I started to think the exact same thing.
I really did.

You show him a world where the leading authoritative entities are so rigid that they demand their foundation convert to unnatural extremes just to make it all work, and he'd probably wouldn't be able to handle it.

It would probably drive him insane.
Jesus came back, he's just in a lunatic asylum or prison somewhere.
The state put him there. lol

Now excuse me. I have to go and buy/sell mounds of useless crap that I don't even need and can't afford, nor anyone else. But I have been convinced it is essential to do, because the privatized institutions that manufacturer it all, are so integrated into supporting our whole, that I have to become a slave to what they produce.
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 3
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 3/30/2009 2:11:59 AM
Everything I've read about Jesus says to me he was anti-establishment.

I've always found it a bit ironic that you could be punished severely for breaking the rules in a movement that was founded based on the fact it broke the rules.

When you think of it, even sacrifice can be a militant action without throwing a punch. I think Jesus was probably a pretty cool guy who was militant in his beliefs but non-violent. To me, that says he was more aware than the majority of those around him.

If Jesus were to return today, I think he would dislike organized religion. It being different times, he would explain things a bit differently so that the meaning behind some of what he was spreading was more apparent. However, I would imagine what he said would be considered a threat by organized religion and he'd get accusations of being a false prophet for those that feared the end of it.

Maybe god doesn't create a Jesus, but a society that gets so corrupt it needs one.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 4
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 3/30/2009 6:21:11 AM

Maybe god doesn't create a Jesus, but a society that gets so corrupt it needs one.


I think it needs several. Maybe this reawakening of compassion and social justice are what we could consider the "second coming"!
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 5
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 3/30/2009 6:46:40 AM
People are not christian because they call themselves christian. They are Christian if they behave as Jesus did. This lot you're talking about are not Christian at all.

When you think of it, it's crazy that people believe what others say about themselves. Liars call themselves honest, hypocrites and bigots call themselves christian, and because they say so, they're believed. Who's more likely to pretend to be what they're not? Right - the people who want to appear acceptable to others despite their true selves. When are people gonna learn?

Don't be fooled by people who say they're 'christian' and then behave in less-than-loving ways to their fellow humans.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 6
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 3/30/2009 9:12:53 AM
I've always assumed that early Christians were Communists (community-owned or held, property shared for the common good), not Socialists (state-sponsored charity for the sick, the elderly, the infirm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

I always enjoy the popular misinterpretations of the "eye of the needle" quote. It doesn't suggest, at all, that the wealthy can't get into heaven. It says that they must not be burdened by owning material things.



The eye of the needle was not the sewing needle we think of when we hear the word. The eye of the needle was a portal into a walled city. It was constructed in such a manner so as to prevent attackers mounted on camels from riding through the gate. It was low, so a rider would be knocked off. Merchants with large loads on their camels were forced to unload their animals to clear the portal. This is also where tax collectors inspected the merchant’s inventory and collected taxes. In short, every camel entering the eye of the needle was "unburdened" of its load. If the merchant did not unload the burden on his camels, he could not enter the city. So, this passage is basically stating that we must unburden our loads prior to entering the Kingdom of Heaven, and a love of money, rather than a love of Christ, is a burden. Being rich is not a prohibition to entering Heaven.

In my experience, that interpretation always seems to drive Fundamentalists into a rabid fury, for some reason.

Illustration of "The Eye of the Needle." Notice the camel has been unloaded prior to entering the "Eye" - "unburdened by material things," which is the point of the analogy.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res22145/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/eye_of_a_needles.jpg
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 9
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/2/2009 7:15:42 PM

Don't even get me started on the old testimant. I think even Christians can agree the God of the OT was venomous and very very pro-war.

Much of what is in the bible is a contradiction of terms with many of the actions taken by Jesus and the followers of god in the bible. If you took Buddhist like philosophy but overlaid them with politics, war and a 'there can be only one' god, you may come up with something very a kin to what is in the christian bible. It's why there are some metaphors there to keep but I personally would not take it all as fact and with the realization that there were far more stories that were excluded and never made it into a bible which wasn't written until long after Jesus's death.

I get my feeling about Jesus due to many of the underlying philosophies in the bible. Those philosophies are not solely christian because many are logical. However, the person to see them is likely to be a highly perceptive individual and there are certain things that go along with that personality and philosophy.....including a dislike for violence, extremes, and unnecessary control that harms growth.

However, the theory I heard about how the bible was formed, would indicate a lot of what was included in the bible were popular stories, not necessarily accurate ones. Regardless of all these different types of stories, that underlying philosophy is still there.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 10
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/2/2009 10:44:32 PM
I agree with O.P. My take was thatJesus was always a hard take for most men. Crucified???!!!! What the...???? Frankly this Jesus creature, you could literally curl up at his feet. Nothing wrong with that. We...all of us...need comfort. Before we go on. Yes, J. was a Socialist , plus (as portrayed) pretty damn cool. You do not meet many J's this and any day. Too bad.
 ChickenDude
Joined: 1/3/2008
Msg: 12
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/4/2009 6:47:33 PM
I once saw a propaganda poster of Jesus carrying the nazi-brand swastika, so in some areas, he might be considered a socialist.

But isn't socialism just another form of government? Supposedly, Jesus is not a fan of government.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 14
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/4/2009 11:30:00 PM
The U.S. deserves to lose their position. What a silly country. No medical system. Socialism is Communism. You start Democrat, end up Republican. A country that needs to sink into the sunset, power-wise, hopefully soon. Too young, too brash, too in need of correction. Maybe they should try socialism. They may learn something.



t
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 15
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/5/2009 12:00:17 AM
I once saw a propaganda poster of Jesus carrying the nazi-brand swastika, so in some areas, he might be considered a socialist.

But isn't socialism just another form of government? Supposedly, Jesus is not a fan of government.


Do you know where I can find that picture. I am curious if it was a left-facing manji, or right-facing manji.
 Dont want plastic
Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 16
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/5/2009 6:26:04 AM
I personally believe jesus is the creation of a capitalist society, as are santa claus and the easter bunny. An icon invented to renew belief as well as increasing income.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 17
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/5/2009 11:52:13 AM
As a Christian, I have been long puzzled why so many other Christians seem to equate being a Conservative with being a Christian. I used to think Christians supported Republicans for opposing abortion and gay marriage, but I hear Christians spout Conservative thinking all the time which clearly is not what Jesus had in mind. If Jesus came in human form and was interviewed on Larry King or whatever, many Christian groups would indeed brand Him as either a socialist or a liberal. There are Christian groups like the Sojourners who realise Jesus did not come to preach the joys of capitalism.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 20
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 8:56:21 PM
Jesus is an anarchist libertarian

http://www.anti-state.com/redford/redford4.html
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 22
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 9:17:03 PM
We aim to please
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 23
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/24/2009 11:20:07 PM
I don't know about that...
All I know is... a lot of today's followers of Jesus are not following his teachings.
Because Christianity has become THE establishment, they don't see that they have become the Pharisees during Jesus' day; an old religion, bloated by its own stagnant dogma, run by an oligarchy of old men hell bent on retaining their power over their followers using whatever means possible to achieve that end.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 24
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 9:15:47 AM
The term "socialist" has been so perverted lately as to be meaningless. It seems the Loonie Limbaugh Right has applied it to anyone to the left of Wayne LaPierre, and to political philosophies as diverse as Nazism, Fascism, or anything, right or left, that has a hint of Libertarianism or Authoritarianism- which is to say, it applies to anyone or anything that's disagreeable to the Loonie Limbaugh Right.
"Socialist" has replaced the old "Liberal" as well as the old "Moderate" or "Centrist."
If you disagree with Rush you're a Socialist, anyone who is not one of Limbaugh's mindless drones is a Socialist.

It should give us all a warm fuzzy glow to be called a Socialist; coming from Rush it's high praise, and puts us in such wonderful company- that is, the majority of the human race.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 25
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 9:50:35 AM

Because Christianity has become THE establishment, they don't see that they have become the Pharisees during Jesus' day;


I absolutely agree.
 icecreamguy1
Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 26
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 3:06:23 PM
Your question: How do people jsutify the whole 'Christian right' Bible and a gun thing ,...." ?
When Peter cut off the guards ear he was told: "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." This would seem to imply that Jesus was not an advocate of using arms. However, the verse that immediately follows might hint at one reaon why Jesus didn't need to rely on weapons of self defense: "Do you think that I cannot call upon my Father and he will not provide me at this moment with more than twelve legions of angels? " For us mere mortals, it's not so easy. But I think if one were to live by the teachings of Jesus (Christianity), as a forward thinking pacifist Jesus would want his followers to live in peace and help those less fortunate.
Bottom line, I don't know if using a gun can be justified if one were to live according to unadulterated Christianity. But then again, we are supposed to take care of our family, and I'm sure that also means that we are to defend them when necessary. (My head is starting to spin now.) Anything can be twisted to justify anyone's agenda. So many translations. So many interpretations.
Safest bet, treat everyone as you want to be treated, and don't judge others.
 forumologist
Joined: 2/23/2008
Msg: 28
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/25/2009 5:52:23 PM
Hmmm. I have a bible. Nowhere in it can I find "The Book of Jesus".

If he had thought it would help us to write "The Truth and the Way" , I think he would have made it a mission to do so but he didn't. Unless I'm mistaken, in which case could someone please quote me the scripture where he gave dictation.

So debating what he thought and what his politics were when he never wrote anything down himself nor asked anyone to write anything (as far as I can tell) is kinda moot.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Jesus actually forbade his disciples to write anything down. That would explain why none of the books were even written within 70 years of his death. Go figure.
 Damienevil
Joined: 2/22/2008
Msg: 32
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 4/28/2009 9:10:54 PM
jesus also said the poor you will have with you always

do remember at this time that if you fell behind in your debts the people you owed the debt to sold you into slavery so they could get their money back.

That roman tax collectors had sold entire cities to slaver to pay bills for their provinces
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 34
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/2/2009 11:21:35 PM
A szibinyanl Jank, I have heard many many arguments against the Bible and Christians, but rarely have I ever heard someone attack the teachings of Jesus. Even atheists who doubt He existed usually have no problem with His teachings, yet you call them illogical. Would you care to give us some examples of the poor logic of Jesus? With all due respect, I really do not believe that you can.

 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 35
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/3/2009 9:52:08 PM
xzanthius, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, the Church believed that Jesus was Divine long before the Council of Nicea (325 AD). In fact, the reason Jesus was put to death was because He claimed to be God. Whether you accept it or not, the early Church believed this, and by the way, what problem specifically do you have with the early Church?
 J_in_SD*
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 37
Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/5/2009 11:20:41 AM
Regarding socialism: How can the King of Kings be a socialist?

Regarding pacifism, he also said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword."

Also, what kind of a pacifist would chase people with a big stick?

Even if he were a socialist, his father is definitely a capitalist. God owns all the land; everyone else is just renting.
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 40
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Jesus was a Socialist
Posted: 5/7/2009 3:46:43 PM
"It always baffles me that so many christians are hard-core capitalists when the religion was founded by someone who was clearly a Socialist/Pacifist. "

What does socialism have to do with Pacifism? Geez, talk about conflation!

"SOCIALIST
"Give to all those who beg from you"
"If someone steals your coat give them your under-coat"
"It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"

I don't see the word "socialism there, do you? You are seeing what you want to see, not what is there.

"PACIFIST
"Love those who hate you"
"If someone strikes you, turn the other cheek and let them strike you again"
"Do not resist evil"

Open to interpretation, to say the least. One problem is, since Jesus is not around, no one can ask him what he was smoking that day, or what he really meant by that stuff, since it is insane.

"My question is, how do people justify the whole "Christian right" "Bible and a gun" thing, when it seems to me that Jesus (in all likelihood) would have chased them outta the temple with a big stick"

This is why you need to see what is there, as opposed to what is read into things by your own mind. Your question is valid, just not on this planet.
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