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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/04/02/report-north-korea-fueling-rocket-impending-launch.html

Thursday, April 2, 2009 10:38 PM
Report: North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch

The Associated Press , Seoul | Thu, 04/02/2009 2:10 PM | World

North Korea has begun fueling a long-range rocket for an impending launch, a news report said Thursday, as President Barack Obama warned the liftoff would be a "provocative act" that would generate a U.N. Security Council response.

North Korea says it will send a communications satellite into orbit on a multistage rocket sometime from Saturday to Wednesday. The U.S., South Korea and Japan think the reclusive country is using the launch to test long-range missile technology; they've warned the move would violate a Security Council resolution banning the North from ballistic activity.

Regional powers have also begun to deploy ships to monitor the launch, and Japan is preparing to intercept any debris that might fall if the launch goes awry - moves that have prompted several threats of retaliation from Pyongyang, including one Thursday.

Meanwhile, CNN television said on its Web site that Pyongyang has started to fuel the rocket. The report, citing an unidentified senior U.S. military official, said the move indicates final preparations for the launch. Experts say the missile can be fired about three to four days after fueling begins.

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Takeo Kawamura said the U.S. and Japanese governments have not confirmed that fueling has begun. South Korea's Defense Ministry declined to comment on the report.

Obama denounced the planned launch as "a provocative act" and a breach of the U.N. resolution while speaking with Chinese President Hu Jintao on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in London on Wednesday, according to the White House Web site.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged the North to reconsider the launch, saying: "There will obviously be consequences if they do proceed with this."

The North countered with its own warnings against any efforts to intercept the rocket, take the issue to the Security Council or even monitor the launch. It says its armed forces are at a high level of combat-readiness.

The North has said debris from the rocket could fall off Japan's northern coast, so Tokyo has deployed battleships with anti-missile systems to the area and set up Patriot missile interceptors. It says it has no intention of trying to shoot down the rocket itself.

"If Japan imprudently carries out an act of intercepting our peaceful satellite, our people's army will hand a thunderbolt of fire to not only interceptor means already deployed, but also key targets," said a report Thursday by the North's official Korean Central News Agency that quoted the general staff of its military.

In what appeared to be a reference to American warships that have reportedly set sail to monitor the launch, the Korean-language version of the KCNA report said: "The United States should immediately withdraw armed forces deployed if it does not want to receive damage."

An English version said the U.S. forces could be hit in a retaliatory strike against Japan.

On Wednesday, the North threatened to shoot down any spy planes that intrude into its airspace.

South Korea's Chosun Ilbo daily reported Thursday that North Korea has redeployed newer fighter jets along its east coast in a possible indication that the regime was serious about the threat. The report, which had no other details, cited an unnamed government source. South Korea's Defense Ministry said it could not confirm it.

The rocket issue is expected to be a key topic at Obama's talks with South Korean President Lee Myung-bak on Thursday. Lee has sought to drum up support from world leaders in London for punishing its neighbor if the launch goes forward.

In Washington, U.S. lawmakers are urging Obama to shoot down the rocket if it endangers the United States or its allies. But U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a TV interview aired Sunday that the U.S. had no plans to intercept the rocket but might consider it if an "aberrant missile" were headed to Hawaii "or something like that."


... violate a Security Council resolution banning the North from ballistic activity.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged the North to reconsider the launch, saying: "There will obviously be consequences if they do proceed with this."
I guess I just don't understand. If no one enforces UN resolutions against other countries that are not in compliance ... why would we care if North Korea doesn't comply with resolutions against them.

In Washington, U.S. lawmakers are urging Obama to shoot down the rocket if it endangers the United States or its allies. But U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a TV interview aired Sunday that the U.S. had no plans to intercept the rocket but might consider it if an "aberrant missile" were headed to Hawaii "or something like that."
Good grief ... talk about overkill ...
I see the war mongers are still feeling their oats even though their "Shoot em up bang bang leader" has slinked back to Crawford.

Let's see ... how would that book be titled? Oh I know ...
"How to start WWIII in six simple words ... "Shoot down the Communications Satellite rocket."
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 9:10:05 AM
What's the big deal?


Jeez, if you don't understand that some countries just don't like us and our way of life--even with Obama in office--then I don't know what else to say.

North Korea has a manical dictator that would love to either take over or destroy the world. He is a dangerous guy--weather or not he is in compliance with UN resolutions doesn't mean a hill of beans here.

I guess you could equate it to why you don't let a five year old have a box of matches. You might want to keep your house standing for a little bit longer.


I see the war mongers are still feeling their oats even though their "Shoot em up bang bang leader" has slinked back to Crawford.

Let's see ... how would that book be titled? Oh I know ...
"How to start WWIII in six simple words ... "Shoot down the Communications Satellite rocket."


Are we bummed that Hillary is using common sense? I'm sure all the bleeding hearts would love for her to go have a little talky-talk with Ill. But it isn't going to do any good--the guy's out of his mind.

It's highly doubtful that it's a communications satillite rocket--and if it is--it won't start WW3 if we shoot it down.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 9:19:03 AM
I think any rocket that’s fired into space needs to be watched to ensure that it's not actually a missile that is being used to transport a nuclear weapon and if it is then it needs to be shot down and the country that launched it has to be dealt with immediately and very severely to ensure our safety and the safety of our allies

I under stand why other countries would want to have the ability to track missiles and or satellites and also why they would want the capacity to launch a counter attack, as long as we have nuclear and satellite capability why would we not under stand why other countries would want the same abilities.

I think many of countries that are not allies of the USA and our allies use the threat of developing nuclear weapons to obtain monetary considerations from the USA, we need to find a better way to ensure peace then to continue to buy it, peace just becomes a never ending expensive bargaining chip

We need to make our offences and defenses capabilities so strong that no country wants to engage us. Long term peace can not be purchased it can only be rented for a short period of time, why would the Palestinians or the Syrians want peace it does not return a profit

If I was a North Korean I would want the capability of defending myself against the South Koreans, I would want a satellite so that I would know in advance if another country had purposely or even accidentally sent a missile my way.

I don't think the USA would launch a missile in an unprovoked attack against another country, but maybe other countries don't share my opinion
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 9:50:18 AM

Jeez, if you don't understand that some countries just don't like us and our way of life--even with Obama in office--then I don't know what else to say.
I think we need to get away from that rhetoric. That's just neocon rhetoric for starting an illegal invasion of Iraq. That's so old now. I seriously doubt the North Koreans really wake up each day thinking about how much they just don't like us and our way of life.

Looking around right now ... our way of life isn't all that great a thing to be jealous of. An awful lot of people are without work through no fault of their own and can't get medical benefits. At least the North Koreans have medical benefits ...

North Korea has a manical dictator that would love to either take over or destroy the world.
Listen ... not too awfully long ago, we had a maniac in power here as well. I just don't think we are in a particularly good position to be passing judgment on other countries' heads of state. We have a lot in our own act to clean up before we are in a position to do that.

Are we bummed that Hillary is using common sense?
Hillary gets paid to say the things she says. She's not allowed to make up the rules as she goes along. As much as people would like to think it ... Secretary of State is not a "wing it - fly by the seat of your pants" job. There are and are not things she can say ... no matter how she feels about it.

If I was a North Korean I would want the capability of defending myself against the South Koreans, I would want a satellite so that I would know in advance if another country had purposely or even accidentally sent a missile my way.
Ya ... I was thinking that as well.

I don't think the USA would launch a missile in an unprovoked attack against another country, but maybe other countries don't share my opinion
Ya ... we might ask Iraq or Japan how they feel about that ... eh?
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 10:05:40 AM

Ya ... we might ask Iraq or Japan how they feel about that ... eh?


Point taken with Irag although we did not use a nuclear weapon against them the attack was unprovoked, as far as Japan I would have to say that the attack on Pearl Harbor was provoking

I truthfully do not know how we think we have the right to dictate to the world what they can and can't do, if other countries have signed non proliferation treaties and then break the treaty I think they should suffer the consequences
 cotter
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 10:25:50 AM

I truthfully do not know how we think we have the right to dictate to the world what they can and can't do ...
I've felt that way for a very long time. I don't see it as our place to put up so-called "terrorist lists" either. It seems to me that it is just that "arrogant snobbish" behavior that has gotten us into some of the problems we're in.

People talk about other countries who hate us and our way of life and in reality I get more the impression they hate us because we are snobs and always labeling others and trying to boss others around. I seriously do not think we would have suffered 911 if we would just learn to keep our nose out of others' business and take care of our own problems here at home.

To say that we should possibly shoot this missile down or take actions against them if they do launch it ... is again just rhetoric that will make us very unpopular with the rest of the world ... just makes us look like meddling bullies.

This is a Iranian missile test. They are present and sharing in data.
Well ... if that's the case, then I'm okay with that as well. I think Iran should be allowed to develop their own defense system as well.

Iran is sitting over there with Israel and their "illegal" nuclear weapons aimed straight at them. That's the best reason I can think of for Iran being allowed to develop their own defense system.
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 7
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 11:40:12 AM
I have no reason to believe that this is anything but what they are saying it is. I don't for a minute believe that Kim Jong-Il would say it is a communication satellite if it weren't. This isn't his usual pattern. I do believe it should be monitored, but I have no concerns over this event.


Iran is sitting over there with Israel and their "illegal" nuclear weapons aimed straight at them.


Not that this is pertinent to the conversation, but Israel has never admitted or denied to having nuclear weapons of any kind. Any and all nuclear weapons that may or may not be in Israel that may or may not be under all come equipped with the American Flag on them.
 cotter
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 3:00:26 PM


Iran is sitting over there with Israel and their "illegal" nuclear weapons aimed straight at them.

Not that this is pertinent to the conversation, but Israel has never admitted or denied to having nuclear weapons of any kind.


Actually ... Olmert admitted it in December 2006. I'm sure it was quite the accident ... but nonetheless, it was admitted.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/061216/2006121619.html
Olmert admits Israel has nuclear weapons
Israel-Regional, Politics, 12/16/2006
Israel's regime's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert had admitted that Israel possesses nuclear weapons.

In an interview with a German TV network, Olmert said that Israel is on the list of countries possessing nuclear weapons.

The most important point brought up on the issue was the uncovering of Israel's clandestine plans which had been kept a closely guarded secret for decades.

On the issue, Israel's regime's deputy prime minister declared in France that concealment of the plans created panic among Israel's enemies.

Israel has refused to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.


http://jobsanger.blogspot.com/2006/12/olmert-admits-israel-has-nuclear.html
December 12, 2006
Olmert Admits Israel Has Nuclear Weapons
Most people who keep up with world affairs have believed for years now that Israel possesses nuclear weapons. They are routinely included on lists of countries that have the nuclear bomb. But Israeli officials have always refused to confirm or deny their possession of these weapons.

However, it looks like Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert blundered on Monday during a visit to Germany, and admitted the obvious -- that Israel is a nuclear power.

In an interview on German television, Olmert was asked if Israel's alleged nuclear program weakened the case against Iran's nuclear program. He replied, "Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"

Of course, the Israeli government was quick to deny that Olmert had actually admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons. Olmert's own spokesman said Olmert did not mean to say that Israel had, or aspired to have nuclear weapons. But the cat is now out of the bag.


http://crooksandliars.com/2006/12/13/olmert-admits-israel-has-nukessort-of
Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister unleashed a storm of controversy after an apparent slip of the tongue appeared to confirm his country had nuclear weapons.
In an apparent reversal of a decades-old secrecy policy, he suggested Israel has the Middle East's only nuclear arsenal.
Leading Israeli opposition politicians accused Mr Olmert, whose popularity was already dented by the recent Lebanon war, of incompetence and of undermining Israel's campaign for western nations to curb the atomic ambitions of Iran.
The row broke out after Mr Olmert said while on a visit to Germany: "Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map.
"Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"


Any and all nuclear weapons that may or may not be in Israel that may or may not be under all come equipped with the American Flag on them.
Well ... not necessarily. Try plastering a French flag on it and that would be more accurate.

While they do get billions from us each year, they are also required to spend it here on military equipment. But they are not getting nuclear equipment from us ... supposedly.

It's a French deal.

OT ...
I think the reactions of what the North Koreans are up to is overkill and that if they want to develop a nuclear weapon, they should be allowed.

If we're not going to stop others from developing nuclear weapons or just turn our head ... then we should do the same for the North Koreans and for that matter ... Iran.
 cotter
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 4:20:34 PM

You mean that country with nearly a million man military mostly pointed almost entirely at South Korea who we're still technically at war with?
I really never pay attention to how many people are populating an army.

How many nuclear bombs does it take to fry the earth?

For me the bottom line is that we (and no other nation) as far as I'm concerned have no right to tell any other country whether or not they should be allowed to develop a defense system.

We're getting our A$$ kicked all over the world ... so we really have no place telling any other country what they can or can not do when it comes to equipping themselves to protect their borders.

We apparently looked the other way when France was busy equipping Israel with nuclear weapons ... so we might as well look the other way for anyone else.

As long as we still have nuclear weapons ... we have no right to tell any other country they can't have them too. That's just hipocracy. That's like a parent telling a child ... do as I say, not as I do. We have no right tell others what to do when it comes to protecting themselves.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:00:53 PM

How many nuclear bombs does it take to fry the earth?



For me the bottom line is that we (and no other nation) as far as I'm concerned have no right to tell any other country whether or not they should be allowed to develop a defense system.


Develpoing a defense system is one thing, but unless you want to find out the answer to your question I quoted above, I think we have the responsibility to limit nukes. All we need is one little megalomaniac to become unhappy with his lack of power......BOOM!! It may not fry the earth but eventually it will kill millions.



We're getting our A$$ kicked all over the world ...


Please elaborate. This will be news to me.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/2/2009 6:24:01 PM


We're getting our A$$ kicked all over the world ...

Please elaborate. This will be news to me.
Maybe it would be easier for someone to say when the last time was that the US actually "WON" any kind of conflict.

We are not winning in Iraq ... even though we started it. We are just eventually going to turn the mess over to the government presently in charge.

So it would be news to me where we last "WON" any kind of conflict we were involved in. It certainly wasn't Korea and not VietNam either. I really don't want to turn this into the topic, so I'll quit with that.



How many nuclear bombs does it take to fry the earth?

For me the bottom line is that we (and no other nation) as far as I'm concerned have no right to tell any other country whether or not they should be allowed to develop a defense system.

Develpoing a defense system is one thing, but unless you want to find out the answer to your question I quoted above, I think we have the responsibility to limit nukes.
Then we had better start with ourselves. In the meantime, Israel has already acquired nukes ... so I think it's only fair for Iran to have them as well.


All we need is one little megalomaniac to become unhappy with his lack of power......BOOM!!
Ya ... we already know what megalomaniacs are all about ... we just sent one home to Crawford.

It may not fry the earth but eventually it will kill millions.
Ya ... that's evident.

OT ...
I still don't see that any of that gives us the right to tell other nations they can't have a defense force. We are not the appropriate ones to determine who is a megalomaniac. I think we have a pretty level-headed guy in office right now, but the Congress and Senate are full of war mongers.

I'm simply saying that until we can set an example of not having nuclear weapons, we are in no position to tell another country they can't have them.

Also, someone needs to see to it that all countries with resolutions and sanctions against them are also complying before we go on some sort of "witch hunt" after other countries that may be developing nuclear weapons.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 2:34:58 AM
I am surprised you have not figured this out yet cotter. The "first world" nations do not want the "little brown people" in the "third world" having nukes because they will no longer be able to bully them. (God I hate those terms "first world" and "third world" there is only one world....)

It is simple.
 cotter
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:23:21 AM


The "first world" nations do not want the "little brown people" in the "third world" having nukes because they will no longer be able to bully them.

There you go, when you get down to a basic that is what it is all about.

Oh dear ... I've grown up (lived around) and worked with so many different "colors" all my life that I must not have been paying attention.

I grew up just across the river from The Ohio State University and in the area of what is now considered "West Campus" and we had all those grad students from all over the world coming and going in our community ... living in the homes that surrounded ours. Likewise, their children all went to school with us as well.

When I was in high school, my mother took us to the Unitarian Church one Sunday and there we also mingled on a regular basis with all kinds of different ethnic groups as well as different religious groups. Turns out ... that was where many of the folks from outside the US involved at Ohio State University also felt welcome. That was where I met my Palestinian friends as well as Jewish friends.

So I have never really given any of that "first world" or "third world" or "little brown people" stuff any thought.

As I've said ... if we allow Israel to have nukes, then we have no right to tell Iran they can't have nukes. Do you think for one minute that ...
**if we were somehow led to believe that Canada hated us (which they may very well) and they had nukes and we didn't, that we wouldn't be the next country to get them?
**if we were somehow led to believe that Mexico hated us (which they may very well) and they had nukes and we didn't, that we wouldn't be the next country to get them?

http://www.opendemocracy.net/globalization-institutions_government/nuclear_complex_3276.jsp
The nuclear complex: America, the bomb, and Osama bin Laden

Nuclear-armed imperialism
In George W Bush's America, nuclear weapons are here to stay and are viewed as weapons for fighting wars. The US "Nuclear Posture Review 2002" recommended continued reliance for the indefinite future on nuclear weapons "to achieve strategic and political objectives". It mandated new facilities for the manufacture of nuclear bombs, research into new kinds of nuclear weapons, new delivery-systems, and much more. It laid out a new strategy, in which nuclear weapons were to be used to "dissuade adversaries from undertaking military programs or operations that could threaten U.S. interests or those of allies." It named as possible targets Russia, China, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya, and opened the door to the use of nuclear weapons to respond to "sudden and unpredicted security challenges."

It may seem difficult to understand why the US should hunger for nuclear weapons in addition to all else that it has. Why does it want to goad other nations towards also craving nukes? And what does it seek to achieve by announcing that it may, if need be, target even non-nuclear adversaries?

The answer is obvious: imperial hubris, runaway militarism, and the arrogance of power.


There it is ... "the arrogance of power". Before I found that, I believe I was saying that I think the reason other nations dislike us is due to our arrogance, not because they are jealous of our way of life.

OT ...
I've always thought the US and for that matter, other nuclear powers are hypocrites when it comes to telling other countries they have no right to build a defense for themselves.
 Ready4SomethingFun
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:27:34 AM

How anyone can be comfortable with the idea of this maniac having nuclear weapons is beyond me....


Exactly the point I was trying to make. Glad to see someone else has common sense. ANd once again, it has nothing to do with skin color---it's what's inside that counts.
 cotter
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 12:14:32 PM

Seiously google N korea and the "glorious leader" He live's in luxury and starves his own people.
Really? And exactly what about that makes us better?

We have all kinds of homeless people who are starving. We have all kinds of children going hungry all the time ... sometimes the only meal they get is a free meal at school. We have all kinds of sick people who desperately need medical attention but can't get it because of no health insurance and if they do go to the doctor, they might be put in the hospital and then they can kiss the roof over the head good bye.

We have sick vets returning home from an illegal invasion and occupational war and can't get the help they're entitled to from the VA. While they were gone fighting the illegal invasion and occupational wars ... their families no longer had the income to keep up their house payments, so they lost all of that, and now they can't qualify for Welfare because the government considers them "employable" even though they know they are sick and need treatments. Their jobs are long gone that they had before they were illegally sent out to fight the illegal invasion and occupational wars ... even though there are laws that provide their jobs are to be held for them ... no one is doing anything about that either ... good luck if you really do have a job to return to.

But there are all kinds of bankers and Wall Street executives walking around with loose change to the tune of millions. Plus we have just sent an administration home that should all be behind bars for the numerous war crimes they committed.

OT ...
Fact is ... we are ethically no better than they are. We have no right to pass judgment on other countries when it comes to determining who is able to handle having nuclear arms and who is not.

Look ... we turned our heads when the Zionists got their nuclear arms. Those people are a bunch of killers ... are committing genocide on the Palestinians and stealing their land right out from under them.

If we can let a bunch of hooligans like that have command over nuclear weapons ... I really don't see why we should stop others.
 kabiosile
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 12:57:40 PM
I did not bring up the skin color thing as a reason why anything happens except that it is typically, one of the obvious reasons the nations that are exploited by the so called "first world nations." In that sense it does have everything to do with skin color/ethnicity.

Secondly leaders of these countries dont want these countries getting nukes because then they can not longer invade them and or steal their resources.

Iran thanks to Bush and gang by invading Iraq now controls the most strategic points in the middle east. The people whom replaced Saddam that are in power now in Iraq thanks to the invasion are closely tied to Iran. Have you not noticed the instant change in foreign policy towards Iran? Now all of a sudden the government of the US wishes to try to "reopen diplomacy."

This goes FAR beyond Obama just being more open to diplomacy. It is due to the fact that Iran is more powerful due to the invasion and destabilization of the region. Saddam and Iran never got along. Even though Saddam was playing stand off with the west he was no friend and never could have been a friend to groups like Al Qaeda and the groups that are running the power structure in Iran.

Saddam was a secular leader whom even openly on more than one occasion attacked Islamic nations and both Iran and Al Qaeda hated him and wanted him removed. Bush and gang did Iran a favor and handed him all the aces when he deposed Saddam.

They left an opening when Saddam was toppled and then the USA Payed off the "insurgent" opposition with millions of dollars if they would stop fighting... Was great for PR about the war which the public was starting to rumble about to the point that they could no longer be ignored.

What does this have to do with the topic you say? I am getting to that. Well what happened is the people the US payed off are tied to Iran. So now Iran runs both their respective country but, is also in control in the country that used to be their mortal enemy. Giving them extreme power in the region.

If they wanted to even without a nuke they could make things go very bad for US "interests" in the region. That is why the all of a sudden new approach and attempts at diplomacy instead of all the talk about spreading the war to Iran that was happening before and during the Iraq invasion/occupation.

Not that the USA wants no part of invading Iran....This holds true also for any nation that has nuclear capability. They will not be invaded.....

No country wants to start a nuclear war. Not even the nuttiest of fools is dumb enough for we all know what happens when those things start getting thrown around. To use them is mutual destruction on mass scale. Most of the nuts out there are about gaining and controlling power. There is nothing left to control if mushroom clouds start going off. These guys operate very similarly to mafia bosses. They dont do things that are bad for business on purpose. I need not say getting your country nuked is very bad for business.

The real reason they dont want countries like Iran and N korea getting nukes is because then they can no longer invade them and bully them they will have to accept them into the nuclear club. Notice no country with nukes gets invaded even the communist ones???

Notice nearly all communist countries have had failed invasions mostly led or done outright by the USA. These are events that do devastate their countries for generations and it only happens to the countries that do not have nukes.

It goes like this. Unless you choose a government that will allow the "first world nations" to continue "business as usual" you will face the invasions, sanctions when that fails and isolation until you play by the rules.

When ever they talk about "American interests" It translates to exploitation of that nations resources. If the nation puts in a puppet dictator they leave them alone no matter how ruthless they are to their people.. As soon as they nationalize something like oil or otherwise go against "interests" of "first world nations" an invasion is imminent. Soon as they get nukes they get into the nuclear club and the BS dies down.

Yes the leader of N Korea is not a nice guy. The leaders of most nations including the USA live in the lap of luxury while there are civilians even here that go hungry every day. It is easy to talk about another nations leaders in a bad light but, many of our own are equally as dirty we are just blinded by the media and the kool-aid everyone seems to have drank. Same thing goes there often. The people are fed a bunch of BS to think their brand of government is so grand and noble. Been that way for a long time.

These countries don't hate us for our "way of life." That is something fed to appeal to our emotions to make excuses for why the common people of that nation must be "our enemy." The common people of all nations are very much alike in so far as they do not wish for war. They wish for a good place to raise their food and children to have a nice life. It is the governments/corporate entities of nations that cause all the trouble.

They more likely hate that our government sends war to their countries and attack their "way of life."

If a country has a revolution and the people rise up and make change why is it our place to play police and choose a side and dictate to everyone what form of government they should be allowed to have? Did not our country also have a revolution that threw out an unpopular form of government to replace it with a new one??

I think it is high time we started voicing our wishes to our government to listen to some of our founding fathers whom warned about making entangling alliances and said explicitly we should NOT getting involved in other countries civil wars. They spoke from great experience and dislike for the imperialism that was going on in Europe that the revolution was about moving away from. They wanted to make something different.
Everyone wishes to cure the symptoms of problems instead of looking for causes of the symptoms.

Why would any nation ever want to have a nuke pray tell? Most especially countries like Iran and N Korea?? The answer is a very obvious one, and I believe it puts things into a proper perspective.

I firmly believe that what happened in Iraq recently, even more so, made countries like this, on edge and wish to seek the protection of having nuclear weapons. The US under Bush invaded and the US still occupies a sovereign nation. I am no political type nor a part of any sort of political movement per se, I do not even consider myself the brightest crayon in the box, hell I even am completely against violence but, even I understand why a country would find that invasion threatening and want to get some muscle to protect themselves.

IF you want to put out the fire of Nuclear proliferation stop throwing gasoline on it! <-- All puns intended.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 17
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 2:01:20 PM
I think it very simply boils down to responsibility. Some countries can have them and also have sense enough to know that if they use it they may be basically starting WW3--they know it for a worst case scenario only. Then there are those who are so out of their minds that they really don't care. If someone like Il has a nuke and one day he gets up on the wrong side of bed or gets a delusion of grandeur......... I personally think he would get some sick pleasure from destroying the world.

Some people give some other people too much credit. It may not be "fair" that N. Korea not be allowed to have nukes since other countries are allowed to--but there is a perfectly good reason for it. It has to do with mental stability. And be realistic--whatever you think of GWB he never considered nuking Iraq.

Sometimes life has to be unfair. As the democrats love to say--get used to it.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 18
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 2:15:04 PM
I'm a hawk on dealing with North Korea's nuclear aspirations.

Too many take their scepticism of W and American foreign policy to mean that whatever they said is always a lie and hides some nefarious plot. Heck, that's my default position. But North Korea is governed by an evil dictator who has turned his entire nation into a monument to narcissim. And he's the son of the man who did the same thing.

Unfortunately, the only way to stomp out this fire is to bribe China to act as fireman. The price might very well be standing aside while Taiwan is invaded. So it's actually in China's interest to allow this madman to go over the edge. Ignoring everything but realpolitic, if you had to make that choice what would you do?

And to think people actually volunteer to be President.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 19
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 4:15:22 PM
~OP~ Gotta love it. I really do think Big Brother should officially adopt a slogan. They could wear little jackets, tee-shirts, tank-tops in the summer, maybe a fancy little logo too, but definitely? "Do as I say, not as I do."
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 20
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 5:16:40 PM
I honestly do get what a lot of you are saying.

I just think we need to back down with the hard-a$$ rhetoric with them. I think we will get further with North Korea by saying ... "Show us what you're doing and let us help you stay on track." It might not stop everything they're up to but it would put them at the table with us ... speaking to us and not just blurting out political rhetoric at us and we likewise.

I still think we do not have the right to tell other countries what to do.

How about if we let China or Russia or (aaggghhhh) Israel issue the North Koreans an ultimatum. Why do we have to be the ones to issue the ultimatum?

I think it would mean a lot more if it came from someone other than the "bully" USA!!!! Let the others speak up ... for crying out loud.

The earth belongs to all of us ... not just the USA!!!!
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 21
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 6:29:34 PM

How about if we let China or Russia or (aaggghhhh) Israel issue the North Koreans an ultimatum. Why do we have to be the ones to issue the ultimatum?


I have no probelm with that--the question is would they do it? And if they did so would N. Korea be more likely to attack them? It's a particularly risky proposition to issue another country an ultimatatum--you have to be able to back it up. We can, without a doubt, but can any of those other countries without starting a war that we would ultimately become involved in? If not, isn't it better for us just to go ahead and be the bad guy as usual?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 22
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:19:21 PM

It's a particularly risky proposition to issue another country an ultimatatum--you have to be able to back it up. We can, without a doubt, ...
So could any other country with a functioning nuclear weapon.

... but can any of those other countries without starting a war ...
We can't issue an ultimatum without starting a war. That makes no difference here.

The point I'm trying to make is that I think it might be better if other countries who also have nuclear weapons issue some sort of warning (even though I really don't think anyone should do that).

The point here is ... many of the so-called "underdog" nations of the world consider us arrogant and pompous people. That's why they don't like us. If the warning came from another country that is not so hated in the world ... someone might be able to get through to them. Even bring them to the table to talk about it.

I know when I'm not particularly happy with someone or consider them as arrogant or pompous ... I'm not inclined to sit down with them and talk about ... anything at all. Since it's so obvious ... ... that the USA is not the most popular nation in the world at the time, I think it would be better if a more "neutral" country attempted to reason with them.

It's worth a try ... better than a damn war.

OT ...
Don't misunderstand me ... I still don't think we have any rights to tell other nations what to do and how they should prepare themselves to defend their borders. We let the Zionist have any weapons they want. They are a dangerous people. We are really not in a position to tell other dangerous people what they can and can not do.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 23
North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 7:23:35 PM
The US can't issue North Korea an ultimatum.

North Korea is a client state of China, and even the US can't win a war over there. For the same reason China couldn't invade Mexico. Home field advantage brought down Napolean and the Nazi war machine.

Clinton effectively used the carrot of aid and trade to keep North Korea in line. W stopped that, and (as I indicated) didn't have a stick he could use. Things have gotten so bad over the last 8 years that only China can now rein in Kim Jung Il. You can expect to see concessions to China trade that will drive you nuts. And you'll blame Obama and the Democrats for it. But the reasons will be because of 8 years of incompetent indifference.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 24
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 9:16:31 PM

We let the Zionist have any weapons they want. They are a dangerous people. We are really not in a position to tell other dangerous people what they can and can not do.


Yes, Israel has WMDs. They are our allies. And also have the sense not to use them. To be honest I think they have shown more than considerable restraint in their avoidance of using them. They get attacked every other week it seems. I'm amazed they haven't flattened the Gaza Strip and I wouldn't hold it against them if they did. But they do get attacked and they don't use them--but they have it--just in case the "other guys" get one and I have no doubt what the "other guys" would do to Isreal if the tables were turned.

However, if N. Korea gets a nuke you can bet the first time Kim gets P.O.ed about something he'll use it and have no remorse. People like him don't think about consequences. He's proven it time and time again in other matters.
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 25
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North Korea fueling rocket for impending launch ... So what's the big deal?
Posted: 4/3/2009 10:23:30 PM
"If not, isn't it better for us just to go ahead and be the bad guy as usual? "

That way lies madness!! You will NEVER be free of it!

Really, can't you here the founding fathers rolling in their graves? It is not our job to worry about everyone else's problems.
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