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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Spain vs the Bush 6      Home login  
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 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 5
Spain vs the Bush 6Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Sure we do...

4 days ago
SEVEN HILLS, Ohio (AFP) — A former Nazi death camp guard won a last-minute stay of deportation, shortly after US immigration agents carried the 89 year-old from his home in a wheelchair to face trial in Germany.

The ruling came in response to a petition filed earlier Tuesday by John Demjanjuk, who is accused of having voluntarily served at the Sobibor and Majdanek concentration camps in Nazi-occupied Poland in 1943.

....................................................................................................................................

Are you Brain Dead...where were you for the past 8 years...in which

We invaded a Counrty, deposed its leader,
established a new government,
whom in turn Charged, Tried, Convicted, and Executed the Former leader.

In the Affairs of...
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 7
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/15/2009 8:46:19 AM
oh hell no..........noooooo way..............folks.we're talking about spain here.....remember?...the country that the terrorists took over?............at their last election? maybe.......just maybe we should consider hearing the arguements if the un proposed them.....but spain?.......people.......its the united states that has had war declared on us......not spain.........we were attacked.........not them................sorry spain........if you knuckle onder to muslim terroists demands........dont expect the united states to listen to you
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 11
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/16/2009 5:17:30 AM
Not that I agree with the Interrogation techniques or the Bush Doctrine. But why is Spain going after these six men in particular? Why not go after Bush himself?.........Wouldn't Bush and Cheney be the "big fish" to fry in this whole argument? Whats next, individual American soldiers?.........

Isn't there massive human rights violations and torture in China, North Korea, and Africa...? I wonder why Spain is not going after them???....Maybe because those nations would tell the Spanish to get real and get lost.

Question for NoBushLover---Do you think President Obama should unveil the now-abandoned Bush-era tactics in their entirety?

As a Obama supporter(and one whom dislikes Bush) I could understand why you would like the President to release the secret key parts of the three 2005 memos outlining legal guidance on CIA interrogations.

And my last question for NoBushLover is---If Obama does decide to keep parts of the memo's secret, will you agree or disagree with him(The President)?

And why will you agree or disagree?

I think I heard candidate Obama say we would have "full transparency" in his Government if he was elected.

Perfect opportunity right here.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 12
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/16/2009 8:20:11 AM

........if you knuckle onder to muslim terroists demands


Im confused are we talking about the Muslim Terrorist in Spain or the Muslim Terrorist we Tried and Convicted at Gitmo...Wait

We didnt try or convict the vast majority of Detainies at Gitmo...We just let then sit around and hang out; until the Spreme Court Ruled the Government had to "Shit or get off the Pot"

Im sorry, Im from the Ol School of not believeing half the stuff told you and figuring the other half was bullshit as well.

The Government Convicted and labled these guys by osmosis...not a court of law.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 14
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/17/2009 4:22:06 PM
As much as I loathe the neo-Jacobins and would love to see them hang, this sets a dangerous precedent. What's next, Germany indicting Americans for hate-speech, destroying our 1st amendment right? Bear in mind that the UN has been talking about "global taxation" for years now. It's a slippery slope.

We should indict the war criminals here. We have a new administration, we have "change."

Oh but wait, he already said he's gonna let 'em slide.

"Sameness I can believe in."
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 16
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/17/2009 8:42:15 PM



No, not all of it. The release of all the info would put innocent people (who work for the CIA, the military, etc) in danger.


There are innocent people working for the CIA? News to me.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 22
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/18/2009 5:48:20 PM

"...some would be killed (by China) for example if we send them back there."
I don't think that's our problem. It could actually work to our advantage:
"Look, Chang, my hands are tied here, the extradition order has been issued, you leave for Beijing tomorrow. I know they'll probably execute you as soon as you arrive, but you haven't given me any reason to keep you here."
 Pyro74
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 27
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/19/2009 10:51:33 PM

So, I guess we should interrogate enemy combatants of the United States using the "want some more milk and cookies?" tactic.
Ann Coulter was right about liberals citing study after study about how ineffective torture is. But if you ask to see the study it's like. No, we don't have it and why would you ask?
Oh by the way I know our enemies treat our prisoners with the greatest respect. I just felt all warm inside with the videos of Americans being beheaded. Didn't you?
How many of them did we behead? Or arbitrarily kill off the battle field?
This is the US. No other country has the right to impose thier half baked laws on us.
We treat our prisoners of war a zillion times better than the other side does. liberals need to realize that at times we have to use a little force to get things done.

Pathetic. Here are things on Gitmo you need to know.

The great majority of released detainees were innocent and once released, have not engaged in terrorist attacks on the US.

The detainees are SUSPECTS who have been ACCUSED of terrorism. They have not been convicted of any terrorist acts by a US court or military tribunal.

Most of the SUSPECTS were rounded up by warlords looking for a payoff, and alot of those suspects were drug users and other Afgahnni low-lifes.

Only 3 out of over 700 Gitmo detainees have actually been brought to trial.

You add all that up, and then add harsh interrogation techniques. We ( America ) have held and tortured innocent people. We could not have given the terrorists a better recruting tool than that. When talking about the war on terror, you really need to see the forest for the trees.
 Pyro74
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 29
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/20/2009 1:47:24 AM
So, out of all the people we released, only 18 are officially confirmed to have returned to fighting. I'll be honest. I'm surprised the number is so low. If I were swept up off my homeland and held for years without charges and occaisionally subjected to harsh interrorgation techniques. I could not wait to be released to exact some revenge on my captors or their interests.
As I said before. The number of people who actually turned out to be fighters or terrorists is so low, that Gitmo is just a giant eye-sore on this country and what it's suppose to represent. Thanks Bush/Chenney, great job.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 30
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/20/2009 2:50:26 AM
Spain dropped their suit.

I think it was because the Chinese were laughing so hard at 'em, going, "What, we do worse than that all the time!!"



People in Africa were saying, "You mean that's as bad as it gets with Americans?? You should visit Rwanda & Somalia!!"



North Korea was getting a giggle, "Geez, we beat McCain worse than that!!"




What we've done with waterboarding & a little headbanging is nowhere near REAL torture. Visit Venezuela's jails sometime.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 36
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/21/2009 11:56:52 AM
And I am not ready to treat every prisoner of war like your average US citezen like the left want us to do.


OK...how 'bout we treat our prisoners of war the way we expect our soldiers to be treated when they're taken prisoner. I can only imagine the outrage were it to come out that some of OUR POW's were being waterboarded, etc. The neo-con end-run around the Geneva Conventions has put our own at risk. It's a shame that some people have so little regard for the treatment of our own soldiers.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 41
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/21/2009 6:51:37 PM
The question isn't why is Spain prosecuting those war criminals but, why is the US not prosecuting those war criminals?
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 46
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 2:25:25 AM
Waterboarding might be questionable, but it's non-lethal.

The things the Chinese, North Koreans, and Central/South American countries do currently to REGULAR CRIMINAL & POLITICAL PRISONERS, are FAR and BEYOND ANYTHING THE US HAS DONE IN IRAQ or GITMO.

And honestly, those CIA Heavy Interrogation techniques?? A first-year Dominatrix would be far harsher than anything the CIA/US Gov't allowed pre-Obama.

Heck, Sigma Pi pledges get treated worse than those who were in Abu Ghirab.
On that, you can BELIEVE!!
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 47
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 6:29:38 AM
It seems someone has not heard of room 101. It's non-lethal to.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 50
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 12:08:45 PM

God tells us to follow the law of the land.


Actually it was Paul who said that, though I'm not sure if it was before or after he escaped from the prison he was being held in for NOT following the law of the land.


A liberal has no moral standing to talk about war, the common sense use of torture or capital punishment. When they support the most disgusting form of child abuse. (abortion)


I actually tend to agree with you on this point.
 Pyro74
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 53
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 2:16:00 PM

These were people who sole purpose in life was the destruction of America and any one else who they didn't agree with.

Again, the overwhelming majority of the Gitmo detainees, have not, and will not be charged or tried on any charges whatsoever. You can argue whether or not torture is useful tool in interrogation, but you cannot deny the fact that America has held, and in some cases is still holding innocent people. Interesting how you you claim to be christian, but you have no problem with your government torturing innocent people.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 58
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 4:28:58 PM

Don't need a link... How many islamic jihad attacks have occured on US soil since 9/11?... unless of course that's "just an bunch of hype and hot air"!


Correlation does not prove causality. Your logic is flawed.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 59
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/23/2009 8:41:12 PM
I might use the Cheney logic the next time I get a traffic ticket:
"Actually, officer, by running that red light I prevented a bank robbery and saved the life of a teller and a bank guard. After all, how many banks have been robbed in the last 20 minutes, since you pulled me over? None, of course, so in the end my actions saved lives."

I'm going to copyright that and call it The Cheney Defense®. Y'all are my witnesses.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 65
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/24/2009 12:15:32 PM
I'm just curious... those that come on here and just want to bash those who believe we are at war with terrorists, and want to bash what the Bush administration has tried to do to combat this, what are your answers? what do you think we should do? Because what I get from your arguments is that we should bury our heads in the sand and hope this was just a one time thing (9-11) and that nothing else will happen.


The "terrorist's" (one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter) primary issue with us is that we militarily and financially prop up Israel, the real aggressor state over there . Considering they've been caught spying on us and then selling the secrets to Russia, wtf kind of sense does that make, anyway? They have a memorial to Johnathan Pollard in Israel. Some "friend."

If we'd stop sending Israel $3+ billion a year (like we can afford it, and for nothing in return) I think we'd see a big shift in where the "terrorist's" attention is focused. Too bad AIPAC is the largest campaign contributor to our congresscritters.

"Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can’t help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East." - John Sheehan S.J. (Jesuit Priest)

There are of course other grievances, such as staging a coup to oust Iran's democratically-elected leader so we could install the CIA puppet The Shah...and of course you see where THAT took Iran. Oops! There's the "pre-emptive" war (aka war of aggression) against Iraq, which through "collateral damage" casualties we have turned into a breeding ground for anti-U.S. militants, etc etc and on and on...

Let's stop supporting the terrorist state of Israel (that likes to spy on us and sell the goods to the Russians) and quit mucking around with other countries' governments. I'm sure THEN we'll see some "change." Too bad there's a snowball's chance of Obama doing the right thing, either.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 67
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/24/2009 12:29:09 PM
edit: dbl post, sorry.

vvv Same thing happened to me, Windroper. Weird forum glitch.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 70
Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/24/2009 4:43:26 PM
And don't even bring up the drones blowing up innocent people in Pakistan/Afghanistan. How many innocents have been killed in Iraq by the military occupation that Bush started ?


We cannot justify or ignore a wrong simply by stating that greater wrongs have been committed. It adds to the hypocrisy label we've earned.
 texasbaby
Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 71
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Spain vs the Bush 6
Posted: 4/25/2009 3:03:52 AM
>>>>But have declared war on babies to the tune of 5 to 6 thousand a day. Babies that cause no harm, are not a threat to our national security. Some states are trying to sanction infanticide. (that means they are already born when they are murdered)
A liberal has no moral standing to talk about war, the common sense use of torture or capital punishment. When they support the most disgusting form of child abuse. (abortion)<<<<

Response; This is the very sanctimonious attitude shared among a ”few” Christians that requires a “free nation” to enforce the separation between church and state with the greatest voracity .

To be so pious and closed to any descending views claiming "high moral grounds” and so quick to ignore the bed rock rules of the Christian Faith. “Judge ye not , less ye be Judge” , I find disgraceful , yet it's be expected, considering the source.

Therefore , I shall judge you with the same harshness. ~ I fear your inability to truly understand the Christian faith and at some point might wish to deny me life itself for disagreeing with you. Christian having done this before and I fear “some” most willing to do it again. ~ Willing to kill doctor's ,office girls , patients alike. I fail to find you standing on any higher moral ground then anyone else.

Your misconstrued reasoning ability of complex issues is lacking. While your position to defend the unborn I find most noble and commend you for your concerns. It is the tools and the methods you wish to use that I take exception to but never your goals.

That you suggest that the DNC might be callous and indifferent much lees lacking of moral fiber is completely absurd.

We believe that Government is not the answer to all of society problems and denying a woman control over her body is not the correction we seek. It is a matter of church and family to address these issues and needs. "NOT" Government!

If it was a simple matter of legislating morality of free men and women, it would have been done already. But in truth, "Pro Life" as they wish to refer to it, only drives the problem underground into the seedy back alleys, placing both mother and doctor's at risk.

It was back to 1967, when " In the Heat of the Night" was a Human Drama, black and white, box office hit. When a young woman found herself wedged between the pressures of society, parents or a back room abortion in a seedy part of town. ~ The sense of urgency overwhelming and need for cash and murder. We known, for a long time.

Behind each of these thousands of stories you speak of , there exist much human drama The rest of the world is not blind Sir. You are not the only judge in town, the only one with a set of eyes and feeling.

We agree on the problem , but not the cure.

You say , more government, more laws to address the issue.

That the DNC is willing to take a more pragmatic approach to a difficult problem does not make us “less moral” then you, but only less judgmental and less willing to “punish” less willing to make criminals out of good people.

We see this as a matter of family and church

We support both of these institutions and think they work best with less government involvement.
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