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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Racial Realism or ... Racism?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 9to9
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 2
Racial Realism or ... Racism?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
msg1.

To answer the questions as best I may.

A) What is race? When were all human. Ethnic identifiers are a refuge for "special treatment". A persons intelligence is much like a modern computer, either its a software problem (education/ knowlege present, or not), or a hardware problem (genetic malfunction of the brain, or destructive damage present). Race has no place in determining ones answer to the HOLY GRAIL of questions "Do I Really Want To Know" A part II) There is no such thing as bad science, only bad pseudo people trying to use it as a tool of social destruction. While the hardware and neural/ chemical workings of the brain, in toto are as yet undisclosed, science is but another tool. And as with any tool, it serves a purpose.

B) The Eugenics movement was merely a human breeding program in poor garb. The idea was essentially to breed humans for superior traits. The problem however, is that "superior" is merely a matter of opinion, especially when one disagrees with anothers "perfect" notion. The human animal, is an organisim. If one agrees to breed a better one, look to the ghetto for guidance. That might very well be one persons "racist reality".

9to9
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 3
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/23/2009 11:13:13 AM
a) not even science
b) racists. Remember the Nazis?
 Dr. Gazebo
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 5
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/23/2009 2:27:10 PM
Most would brand me a racist when I say blacks are collectively are less intelligent than other races

With all due respect, thats racism. Its also sheer nonsense. Where did you get these ideas? Here are some famous black scientists who you do not know about;

Daniel Hale Williams -In 1893 Dr. Daniel Hale Williams performed the world's first successful open heart surgery

Lloyd Quarterman - In the 1930s Lloyd Quarterman helped develop the atomic bomb and the first nuclear reactor for atomic-powered submarines.

Percy Julian - In the 1930s Percy Julian found a drug used to treat glaucoma and improve memory in Alzheimer's patients

Charles Drew - Dr. Drew's work with blood plasma and blood storage led to the development of blood banks in 1940.

Patricia Bath - In 1986 Dr. Bath developed the Laserphaco Probe, a laser used in cataract surgery.

Garrett Morgan - Garrett Morgan is responsible for several inventions. Garret Morgan was born in Paris, Kentucky in 1877. His first invention was a hair straightening solution. October 13, 1914 he patented a Breathing Device which was the first gas mask. The patent described a hood attached to a long tube that had an opening for air and a second tube with a valve that allowed air to be exhaled. On November 20, 1923, Morgan patented the first traffic signal in the U.S. He later patented the traffic signal in England and Canada.


 Gentlmen710
Joined: 3/13/2009
Msg: 9
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/23/2009 4:37:17 PM
[ blacks are collectively are less intelligent than other races /quote]

Hmmm this is a shame because I can't completely disagree, let me
first say their is no genetic or anatomic evidence that support this. Any
and every person can reach higher levels of intellect with no capacity.
However the word 'collectively' can be a bit deceiving as it may be mistaken
as a generalization of any individual black person. There are many
highly intelligent black people as only a mere fraction were listed
previously, but they generally unfamiliar figures and there is a reason
for this. Understanding this reason requires an understanding of
black history (hey isn't that a celebrated in february...). Have you
heard of a man named Willy Lynch, things go deeper than with this one
man but his actions are a good example of the devastation which can effect
any and everyone person when minds a manipulated and knowledge and education
are withheld, as seen amongst The Aboriginal native indians of this canada.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 10
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/23/2009 5:20:27 PM

I accept the fact there is a correlation between race and intelligence,


People also still claim that men are smarter than women.

So, maybe men should stop mating with women and only have babies with other men.

Snort.
 seenitall
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 13
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/24/2009 10:16:50 AM
Race really isnt a relevant term, its meaningless biologically. Humans
are all the same species, with very little discernable genetic differences.
I think a more apt term would be that of breeds, and the analogy I think that best illustrates, is that of dogs. There is a basic human breed just as there is a basic dog.
All dogs share a similar basic intelligence, behaviour, motivation and temperment. Yet there can be significant differences between the different breeds of dogs, and even more significant ones between canines such as the wolf and dogs. The various dog breeds and their differences are the product of deliberate selective genetic engineering or artificial selection by humans. The different human breeds or "races",
are a result of natural envirnomental pressures and selection over the past 70 thousand years as the ansectral human stock migrated out of Africa into Eurasia and beyond. To assert that the evirnomental pressures that caused dramatic differences in
skin color, facial features, hair texture etc, didnt affect temperment, intelligence,
and behaviour on some level is inconsistent with our current knowledge of genetics and evolutionary biology. The thousands of years of envirnomental pressures left the different human breeds with subtle intellectual, behavioural, and emotional differences that arent readily apparent at the level of the individual, but are expressed
at the level of civilization and culture.

 mountain_biker_88
Joined: 4/2/2007
Msg: 14
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/24/2009 10:37:40 AM
A, Complete BS. People have been trying for years to prove that their race/ethnicity is superior but no one has been able to come up with any proof yet.

B, Eugenics is the science of selective breeding of humans as to improve the gene pool. However most of the people who study it do so to promote their belief that their race is superior.

Oh, OP. I would definitely consider you a racist.
 Dr. Gazebo
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 16
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/24/2009 9:38:51 PM
I guess according the OP... Barack Obama is stupid. Well for a lower intelligence race he's sure doing better than you.

I recant my careful words. This thread belongs on a KKK site, not a thinking forum.
 seenitall
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 18
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/25/2009 1:31:36 PM
The only way there is ever going to be a truly peaceful, civilized, enlighted human society, one where the strong dont prey on the weak and vulnerable, is to practice intensive eugenics to breed out the various grotestqueries of human nature. Barring setting up a colony on another planet and intensely screening the colonists , I dont see that ever happening.
The human gene pool is a mess. We are saddled with obsolete impulses and behaviour.
Traits that once helped us to survive as nomadic hunter gatherers in the wilderness, are incompatible with an evolved, technological civilization, and will probably end up killing us all. The list of traits that could be weeded out is seemingly endless, religious fervor, sociopaths, psychopaths, metal defectives, mentally ill, genetic diseases, pedophiles, sexual degenerates, rapists, murderers, etc, etc, etc.
If we are going to survive we need to thin out the herd and remove those traits that are holding us back as a species. The crazy thing is that we do the opposite of what we should be doing. Instead of removing the brutal and vicious permanently from the world, we play games and noy only allow them to live, but allow them to breed.
The list of examples never ends, pedophiles, Islamic fundamentalists, drug traffickers.
Why are they allowed to pass on their defective genes?
 seenitall
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 21
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/25/2009 5:57:16 PM
----What if we decide to put one of those Islamic fundamentalists in charge of that department ? Think you'd make the cut -----

Probably not. I dont think women should be covered in sacks and treated like livestock. I think any rational person would agree that anyone who does, at the very least, shouldnt be allowed to breed.
 seenitall
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 23
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/25/2009 9:03:13 PM
---Sure but there are around 1.4 billion who seem to find nothing wrong with the idea at all.---

Since when does sheer numbers make something just or moral or even acceptable.
Millons thought Nazism and Facism were just peachy, did that make it right?
Millons thought that slavery was a just way of life, just as millons of Muslims think it is
right to tell girls that they cant learn to read or expect equality because that would be contary to the medieval dicates of the Koran. I find it disgusting and evil that there are so many in the West who are willing to accept the subjugation of women and girls to satisy their own pathology. To bad fo them, huh?
I think that the women of Afghanistan would have a different opinion. If they were allowed to talk that is without the fear of being whipped or beaten to death.
 pro-filer
Joined: 5/9/2008
Msg: 27
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/26/2009 9:26:17 AM

We would need to identify the qualities that we would want to promote.

I bet physical/sexual attractiveness would top any list, even if nobody actually admitted it out loud.


how about:
Ability to get along with others.
Compassion
Flexibility (of body and spirit)
Honesty
Emotional Intelligence


On any list I helped create, I'd want "happiness" and "compassion" as top requirements. With an abudant supply of happy and compassionate people, a lot of the world's ills would be eliminated.

Someone suggested that as part of general purging the "metal (sic) defectives, mentally ill" should be eliminated. Yet, those can be the ones that teach people the most about having joy in life, as well as how to give and receive love.
 9to9
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 29
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/27/2009 11:36:02 AM
Msg 1o.



<div class='quote'>So, maybe men should stop mating with women and only have babies with other men.

And maybe humanity should develop artifical wombs, and some AKA "Judge Dredd" scifi future "Logans Run" type society?

That way the problems of raising ones uber spawnen, is passed directly to an Authoritarin State Super Structure, and not being passed to the public education system in poor garb today.

That way in the future it'll be even harder to point the finger, when the stupidity of gender based thinking, racial based thinking, and relationship issues are eliminated!

Ahhh....I can hear the coldly modulated voice of HAL 12K now.

"9to9...your genetic profile has been screened again and 10to12 has begun incubating."

"Well HAL, what kind of future will he have?"

"I'm sorry 9to9. I can't answer that with the current data."

9to9
 Deo1970
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 30
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 4/27/2009 7:35:35 PM
I absolutley agree that there are varying levels of intelligences between the so called races but not for reasons that you proposed. Eugenics is psuedo-science ( B.S) science based on superficial evidence.

We as human beings irregardless of race have the same genetic potential for intellectual accomplishments as any other. What usually holds certain groups back are usually to do with cultural values, socio-economic advantages (mostly to do with geographical and historical dynamics of a certain group of both past and present) and social acceptance.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 5/16/2009 12:57:14 AM
eugenics, is that species improving? [making smarter asses?]

so then what, we would have smarter a--h---s
come up with smarter ways to do stupid stuff?
so you think it a smarts problem that we have here on planet earth?
I think we would be in less trouble if we were half as smart.
what do I know! [should enrole in a eugenics course]
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 41
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 5/16/2009 10:24:25 PM
The test results that give these beliefs momentum are completely biased.

They do not take into account that many of the groups being demeaned to lower intellectual status also are receiving a lower quality of education, suffering from food insecurity, and have overall a lower health care system. This is made worse because due to being "treated" as a lower form of society so it has caused psychological issues that it would take generations to repair if we dedicated ourselves to it. This has been well studied in North American Aboriginal populations.

These people are not less intelligent, they are less aggressive. There have been studies done on this that found that white Scandinavian men are more aggressive genetically than Inuit men from the same region.

Its quite possible any differences you see are just due to a genetic variant that makes white people more aggressive. They likely became to be more aggressive due to being a minority and to ensure their survival. So pressures we are putting on minority groups now could result in the exact same thing.

At one point, it would have been the minorities who were in control until a more aggressive white race appeared. From a natural evolution perspective, I'd say we are cultivating an element of survival for a more aggressive minority group to appear as an ongoing struggle for balance that humanity keeps going through as we evolve. Remember, its unrealistic to think that humans are in our epitome of evolution if you look at the history of our evolution. We will eventually become a new species and its these struggles going on within that make that happen.
 Deo1970
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 43
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 5/17/2009 6:13:38 AM
Race doesn't commit crime...poverty does!
 Deo1970
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 44
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 5/17/2009 6:24:24 AM
My house was burglarized once and next door neighbor car was stolen......They caught that **stard and he was a whitie!!

I'm not black nor am I Hispanic but remarks like that make me want to pimp slap your ass.....!
 AwP
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 47
view profile
History
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 5/17/2009 9:41:08 AM
We don't have the means to determine if a certain race is on average more intelligent, IQ tests are not particularly accurate at determining raw intelligence, and if you go by accrued knowledge and success, that has much more to do with culture and education. The majority of blacks wouldn't do well on the accrued knowledge and success test, but that's because most of them are stuck in poor ghettos, a black who grew up in a nice middle class neighborhood is just as likely to become a law abiding banker or lawyer as their white neighbor.

Same goes for the guy who mention crime rates. As already pointed out, whites actually commit more crimes, though if you want to say blacks and hispanics commit more crimes per capita I'll give that to you (I don't want to google stats), but again that's because most blacks and hispanics are stuck in the ghetto. Whites from the ghetto are just as likely to be thugs, and blacks/hispanics lucky enough to not be from the ghetto aren't likely to be criminals at all.

If people are talking about worldwide, well Africa these days is basically one giant war torn ghetto, thanks to the colonial powers. Belgians were mentioned for Rwanda, other powers were responsible for the troubles in other parts of Africa (speaking of colonial powers screwing things up, just look at the middle east).
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 54
view profile
History
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/4/2010 4:19:39 PM
One example of a problem with IQ tests:

Some researchers wanted to test the IQs of a village of "primitive" people so they devised some tests that did not depend on literacy and knowledge of specific subjects that only a person with a Western university education would know. For instance, they would present the villagers with various items and ask them to group them, thinking they would put all the vegetables together, all the tools together, etc. However the villagers had a different notion. They would group the vegetables, the knife, and the basket together because the basket could be used to carry the vegetables and the knife would be used to cut them.

I think OP exposes his lack of science and his racism. I agree with stargazer: eugenics is not science and yes, it is racist. OP proves that Caucasians are not necessarily more intelligent.


<div class='quote'>I am still thinking if I could tell someone who didn't racially fit a role that they weren't right for the job.........................

And if the sub were Caucasian, you wouldn't have noticed any difference because he was racially "right" for the role? It doesn't occur to you that once you saw he didn't look the way you thought he should, you were already influenced?

Marian Anderson comes to mind.

 Mitochondrion
Joined: 8/11/2010
Msg: 56
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/6/2010 6:36:56 AM
I have often found it astounding how these obvious troll posts randomly appear and the op never seems to have a pic. 95% of our population formulates their ideals based on the ideas of others, rather with rational, critical thinking, and research.

This is either a troll. Or the OP falls into the 95% category.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 57
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History
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/8/2010 7:48:24 PM
I've learned that it's next to impossible to have an intelligent, rational discussion about this topic. Especially with older folks.

There are significant differences between the what are called human "races". This is a very well documented fact. Acknowledging this reality does not necessarily make one a racist, but it does make them informed.

Race = Breed

We know, conclusively, that there are differences between breeds of dogs, cats, and other mammals. Why then do many people get so bent out of shape when anyone speaks about physiological differences between human breeds?

Insecurity I think. Most likely with the truth.





The Flynn Effect I think is even more interesting than racial IQ differences.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 60
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Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/12/2010 3:45:19 PM
Painful to read this thread with all the straw man arguments and complete lack of understanding of statistics.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/13/2010 3:24:26 PM

This reminds me of everyone telling me I would get hurt because I dated a black man and "they treat women badly". After 6 weeks, he cheated on me and I dumped him. My family, coworkers and pretty much everyone I knew said "I told you so". The funny thing is, I was treated far worse by a violent, white exhusband who cheated many, many times, abused me in many different ways and tried to kill me. Everyone seems to hope that I've "learned my lesson" about black men, but nobody has ever warned me not to date white guys. Is this kind of behavior only caused by race when the guy isn't white? Is crime only caused by race when you are not white? People are assumed to be guilty if they are black or hispanic, therefore, they are arressted and convicted at a higher rate. Add to that the fact that blacks and hispanics are more frequently forced to live in poverty, and it might explain the crime rates.

This is what I'm talking about with people who don't understand statistics.

No one experience you have is entirely dictated by statistics, nor is your single experience important in a statistical fashion. The people warned you that blacks are more likely to treat women badly had a marginally statistically advantageous argument (actually I'm just assuming; I'm not familiar with any statistical claim that blacks are worse than anyone else in their treatment of women). Your experience with the white guy: shit happens. It was statistically less likely to happen: this doesn't mean the stats don't just count for white people. It also doesn't mean either experience should cause you to hold it against people in your future, be they white, nor black.


Is crime only caused by race when you are not white?

No, you just are statistically more likely to find that a non-white will perform criminal behavior. This isn't "caused by race". As for the explanations for it, sure, differential education opportunities, cultural differences (often caused by different cultural education opportunities and poverty), etc...

These "yeah but I found a time where it didn't follow the statistics, so it must be wrong" is like saying "well I don't have to look both ways before crossing the street because I know someone that didn't look both ways and lived".

Arguing that statistics don't say what they say is just as foolish as using racial statistics -- which really don't show any important differences (sure, blacks typically have lower IQ scores, Jews have higher scores, women have a higher graduation rate from college, etc)... these differences are all pretty narrow -- as justification to personally judge someone. Yes, it cannot really be argued that whites have a higher crime rate than blacks. But in your personal life, you will meet all manners of people, and it's no help to try and judge people against things like that. Separate statistics from your personal treatment of people. Don't avoid dating white guys because they're white, or black guys because they're black (unless you just aren't attracted to one or the other).
 olddirtybastard
Joined: 9/9/2010
Msg: 64
Racial Realism or ... Racism?
Posted: 9/13/2010 3:25:18 PM
WHY ARE WE SOO CONCERNED ABOUT averages, ANYWAY ?

WHAT IMPACT, or importance, do AVERAGES have on our lives

WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS

EVEN IF YOU COULD SHOW THAT on average , LET'S SAY, BLACK PEOPLE had a slightly lower average IQ than whites, it would hardly follow that you could conclude that an individual white person was smarter than an individual black person. I'm sure Barack Obama is quite a bit more intelligent than MOST white peep's, there's plenty of other examples out there as well

I just don't get the obsession/focus on AVERAGES.? One hand on ice, one in a fire, on average both hands feel fine?
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Racial Realism or ... Racism?