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 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 1
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Doing the math: 200/25/0Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I've been on PoF and "that other dating site" for over a year. I've been single and alone for the last 4 years or so.

Now the math:

In the last year (well, since about Feb. 2008), I've had at least one conversation with over 200 women. That could be a single email, an IM, a phone call or a text message. With some, the conversation includes all, or goes on for days or weeks.

Out of those 200 women, I've managed to arrange a first date with about 25 of them. We'd go out for a walk, or an ice-cream, or dinner, or whatever was comfortable and convenient. Sometimes it was my suggestion, sometimes it was theirs.

About half of those 25 women expressed a strong chemistry with me, and in those cases, I'd totally agree. A handful even said they "..definitely want to get together again soon". After the "date", sometimes I'd text back a "Thanks for the great night, sleep well" kind of message, further showing my interest.

A few days later, if I hadn't heard back from them at all, I'd send a polite email, just to keep the lines of communication open. Note too, that there was nothing at all physical shared during or after the date, except a polite hug goodnight or goodbye.

In over a year, after first dates with 25 women, I haven't yet had a single second date. Not one.

I can recognize when the experience just will never work, bad dates, dead-end dates and all that... but some of these women got along with me very well, and I'd have expected some sort of interest to even pursue a second date, to see if the compatibility would grow or linger.

Nothing.

What am I missing here? What is the science to this whole process? (if any). Do I need to find another 200 women and try to eek the 12% return out of those, until I can find someone who is honest and genuine? Obviously those who said they wanted to get together again, were just giving lip-service, lies, to mislead... and I can discard those. But really? No calls? No response? Nothing at ALL?!

Weird, just weird. And depressing.
 english lass
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 2
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 6:12:26 AM
perhaps waiting for them to respond for a few days and then just sending a 'polite' email makes them think that you're not really interested

maybe write or phone the next day and refer to some thing you've talked about on your date... then ask if they'd be available again next week sometime (giving at least a week between initial dates can accomplish the 'not too eager' thing without the waiting three days before returning contact, if that's what you're trying for...)

it could be that... but then again, it might be something in person that makes them think, upon reflection, that you wouldn't be compatible in some way... chemistry is important, but it's not more important than having things in common, unless a physical relationship is all that's required...

perhaps ask one of them?

i agree with the above poster, you seem attractive, intelligent and fun, so nothing is obviously apparent as to why there are no second dates...

better luck for the future
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 3
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 7:14:33 AM

Is it possible that you were too polite? I mean during the date and after; too formal in your correspondence?


I'm a gentleman, polite, but still funny, frisky, silly as well. I'm not overly polite, especially when I'm interested in someone.


Women have to feel they are wanted, desired. That doesn't mean they want you slobbering on them at the end of the first date, or emailing like a stalker.


Exactly... I show them my interest, by asking them about themselves, being considerate of even the most-subtle of things in their profile or mentioning something from their photos. "I notice you had a silver ankh necklace in one of your photos. Have you ever been to Egypt?", or something like that.


Do you talk a lot about yourself on a first date?


Not excessively, and mostly in response to questions they might have. I certainly offer my own perspective on my life, or examples of my own experiences, but I don't get up and make a speech about Me, Me, and Me. I've been on dates with those, no thank you.


Do you not talk enough?


Definitely not :) I tend to keep the conversation going, and going and going. Maybe my dates are too "long", because time flies when we're just out having fun. A simple date over a dinner and a drink or two, will seem to have 3-4 hours flying by without notice.


Are you trying too hard to impress?


Again, not at all. I dress appropriate, I smell appropriate, and I don't try to sweep these women off their feet. I realize that a first date with anyone is an uncomfortable experience, so I try to be as relaxed and confident, without being overly-so, as possible, if that makes sense.

I'm 37, not 24, and so I don't feel like I have to hand out a resume of my accomplishments to my dates. I'm also an open book, and if someone wants to know who I am, or what I do, they can just Google me. I just checked, and there are 24,200 results for my full name + middle initial in double-quotes. I'm very much out there, and I don't need to bring that into a date environment.

Here's an example of a date I just went on Friday night: We planned on just grabbing some quick Mexican food at a local place, and before heading out, I checked their hours online, and it said they closed the kitchen at midnight. Perfect, we'd be arriving around 10pm anyway. We show up, and their kitchen is closed... because there was a concert, and everyone ate early and went home (or something).

Er, ah, uhm... quick David, replan!

Ok, there's another great Italian restaurant walking distance away, so we went there. The waiters sat us on the side of a large room, with the girl having her back to the main room area. When the waiters were coming up to fill water and bring appetizers, she didn't hear them coming, and was getting startled.

So I jokingly said "Excuse me, can you just clomp your feet when you're near, so she knows you're coming? :)" and then the whole wait staff started doing a VERY comical "marching band" style clomping each time they'd walk by, even if they were just passing through with a tray of food for another customer. Not just loud feet, but knees up to chest kind of marching band. We were laughing so hard, it was hard to eat.

I try to keep things funny, light, and keep the smiles and laughs going all night. I'm spontaneous and funny like that.

After dinner, we went out to a pub and shot a couple of games of darts, no drinks, no smoky environment... it was nice. Over darts, we were able to have a decent conversation about each other, ask questions and just have a relaxing time. No agenda, no schedule nothing.


Are you hard to live up to? Too good to be true?


Honestly, I don't know. I've asked plenty of people about my persona, what vibe they get around me and everyone says I'm a fun, intelligent, likable person, and they too are shocked I can't even get to a second date.

One of the gay guys I work with NY says that my dates are too long (in duration), and that I should cut it short at 1/2 hour to 1 hour, max. He said that if the conversation is going well, and I'm feeling comfortable and there might be chemistry building... STOP, and end the date right there. I'm not sure I agree with that approach, so I take that with a grain.


Do you order the spinach salad on most dates? lol


Only if I'm in a Popeye costume and dining with Olive Oyl :)


We need more info.


So do I :(
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 4
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 7:38:04 AM

I am curious, and maybe I am missing it, did you ask any of those women on a second date? The easiest way to get a second date is to ask. Or were you expecting them to ask you on a second date?


If I've sent out a couple of emails, made a couple of outgoing phone calls, went on a date (where I either arranged it, suggested it, or drove the full distance and back), and sent a text/email afterwards saying that I had a great time, yadda yadda... without seeming like a needy-stalker-type, I think I've reached out enough, no?

In my opinion, it would be nice to know that the other person has even a single shred of interest, by calling back, texting back, or even (gasp!) suggesting we go out sometime again. I've heard nothing from any of them after the first date. Nothing.

They literally vanish, and when I email back to try to make contact again, suggest catching up again, I get no response. Nothing. It's like they've been erased from the planet. After that, I move on. No sense lingering on with more effort than that.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 5
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 7:41:22 AM

Is it possible that you might be too smart for some of the ladies you are attracted to? I know that seems a judgmental and over simplified question but I felt it had to be asked. In other words are you the rare nerd with looks and personality?


I don't think I bring the 'brain' or the 'linux' into the date, unless the conversation is flowing that way. I talk to the level of everyone I'm with. I don't try to talk above or below their level. I learned that years ago, because it pushes people away, or you lose them in detail they can't grasp.

Yes, I'm smart, but I also tend to date intelligent women as well (part of the reason my profile is as verbose as it is; to act like a filter to weed out the superficial, flighty types), but I don't think I come into the dates like a swinging brainiac.

Good point though, I'll try to be more aware of that...
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 6
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 9:08:40 AM
It's not weird. If you had the chemistry, you'd easily seal your second date with a long goodnight kiss or a lot of kissing and a commitment to a second a date. A hug means, bye bye, you're a friend, not a date.
 ~breathlesshush~
Joined: 4/25/2006
Msg: 7
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 9:24:39 AM
My last first meet went as such: We met at a local pub, had a couple of drinks, went shopping (a little odd, I know), he drove me back to my vehicle, and we parted ways. He was very kind to clean the snow off my car (January, it was snowing a lot), and gave me a small kiss before we said goodbye.

Within an hour of being back home, he called me. We talked for about an hour on the phone, and I believe this cemented my attraction/desire to see him again. He let me know upfront and in no uncertain terms that he was very interested in seeing me again. I felt the same way.

Now, if he had waited a few days, and then sent me a "polite" email saying he had enjoyed meeting me, well, I can guarantee that we wouldn't have seen each other again. I would have moved on..without him. My interpretation of his behavior would have been that he was mildly interested, but not enough to pursue me. By the time I received his email, I would have already given up the possibility of seeing him again. Do you see what I'm saying? Maybe it isn't that way for everyone, but that is how I personally would interpret it.

Oh, and for what it's worth? We are now in a relationship, and it is absolutely wonderful. I am grateful that he wasn't afraid to put himself out there and tell me how much he liked me. I now have an absolutely wonderful guy in my life, because he took a chance and didn't play "dating games".

My advice to you Opie? If you really like a lady, tell her. Don't wait 3 days, and don't be polite/ambiguous in your emails. Take the bull by the horns and go after what you want. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results. Good luck darlin'.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 8
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 9:28:58 AM
Note too, that there was nothing at all physical shared during or after the date, except a polite hug goodnight or goodbye.

Well there's your problem. You gotta go in for the kill when the time is ripe. Out on the fringes of a species' range there may be few potential sexual partners to pick and choose from, so it is a good strategy to be able to grab what is going. That's the science "to this whole process" (-yes, that was a quote from a real science book).

If you're not getting your face slapped or if you're not getting pushed away you're not doing it right. The lesson women will teach you is this: Not too much polite, please. Please to beat your chest a bit. If you want to get laid, you've got to chase and you've got to push. Not too much -- that's called 'rape', and you'll live to regret it, boy -- but enough to show you're serious.

...sometimes I'd text back a "Thanks for the great night, sleep well" kind of message, further showing my interest.

Sounds really dweeby and kinda creepy to me. Nothing expresses sincere interest like trying to go too far on the first date. Then you can progress on to the "Does having sex when you meet for the first time ruin a chance for a real relationship?" thread. :>
 ~breathlesshush~
Joined: 4/25/2006
Msg: 9
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 11:56:00 AM


This is the sad and **SICK** thinking, values, principles, actions, and typical way of today's female in going about the selection, dating process. The "average", "decent", "hard working", "really nice guy" is just simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH for today's "modern" feminist female. They are counseled, advised, and admonished that he MUST be up to standard, like the standards set in Beverly Hills and on Rodeo Drive!!


Pffffffffffffffft!!! What a crock!! My boyfriend happens to be exactly what you described, average, decent, very hard working, has integrity to spare, strong morals and values..this is what *I* look for in a guy. Can't speak for other women, but I'm quite certain most of them would feel the same way.

Sheesh. I love it when guys who can't get a date blame it on the women, and say it's because she's a b*tch or a golddigger. You do realize it merely makes you (in the broader sense of the word, I'm not polarizing anyone here) look petty, insecure, and bitter, don't you?

Sigh. I guess eventually someone had to turn this into a woman bashing thread..and yes, it goes the opposite way as well, I know. Why is it people can't ever just give helpful advice, without letting their hatred and bitterness poison their words?

I hope things work out for you Opie, and I reiterate my earlier advice. Be more direct, and ask right away for that second date. Maybe not all will agree, but I bet some will!! Good luck!!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 10
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 11:59:36 AM
Okay, so you've had 200 at-bats, and 25 hits... or in other words, to land a date with them, you're batting .125 (same as 1 for 8). I've always said for entertainment purposes, if one's tastes are reasonably selective, in comparison to baseball, you double the avg. So in essence, it's like you're batting .250. Okay, not horrible or anything, especially since if you're not trying to be a "player".

When it comes to getting a second date (follow-through), you're saying you're 0/25. That's the real problem. You haven't gotten more than a single, or ended up getting to 2nd in your 25 hits. That's where the problem lies.

You said that HALF the women expressed a strong chemistry with you (12 or 13)... but NONE of them followed up with it -- meaning they really DIDN'T have strong chemistry. Yes, that's going to happen once in a while... but if that's 12/12 or 13/13 times, then you ARE missing something. You're not a great judge of body language. Remember -- words mean little... words are a formality. Body language/attitude tells much more.

If you have a hard time reading body language, or better yet, hastily assume they really like you when they really don't THAT much, chances are you may be doing some key things that cause things to fizzle or for them to instead put you at Plan B or C and therefore, nothing will likely end up formulating. But still -- 0/12, 0/13 with gals who at least seemed just fine and dandy with you on 1st date? Hmmm. That's more than low-percentage ball.

I'd say do you have anything you should expect that would leave a woman going for another option? Are the 1st dates fine and dandy, but bland? Are you too eccentric during them? Do you bring up talks about religion or controversial topics with gals you're attracted to who aren't into philisophical or controversial conversations? Are your pictures different than you look NOW? Do you talk for TOO LONG before meeting, thus raising the % chance each day that you're different? Do you talk yourself up too much beforehand (even in non-bragging style) where the results of dating you can only go down? Are you attracted to girls who don't like guys of your "type"? Are you coming off as average-Joe and not with a vibe/swagger that you're a confident "more than Joe" mentality? Do you try to placate to the gal and try to please her and gain her approval as your goal (that will sink you in your persona with most girls who have many options)?

I would say not getting a second date, if you are handling the potential progression into one just fine, is most likely a problem on your end .... if you're dealing with girls within your "demographic". You may be doing something on that 1st date (or beforehand even) that may be throwing things off or setting things up to.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 11
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 12:02:35 PM
Setuid, I wonder if you're familiar with the term 'a call to action'? It's a very well-used and familiar term in sales industry for getting your prospect to act, to make a move toward a commitment to buy---your goal: getting that person to become a customer; or in your case it would be getting that oh-so-elusive second date!

From what I can see, you’ve really done an excellent job in prospecting and narrowing the field.

Out of those 200 women, I've managed to arrange a first date with about 25 of them….
About half of those 25 women expressed a strong chemistry with me, and in those cases, ….. A handful even said they "..definitely want to get together again soon".

The fact that you’ve had 25 dates with strong chemistry is fantastic!
Your actual point of failure as I see it is not being able to close the deal, because you haven’t made your intent clear; you simply haven’t asked.

You write,

…after the "date", sometimes I'd text back a "Thanks for the great night, sleep well”..


Truthfully, if I received this email, I would not be reading your email and thinking that this is an especially positive outcome. I’d be thinking, wow, I thought he liked me…That email screams to me like the type you would get if someone is not too keen on you. Further, the timing of when you indicate you typically send your text/email would also corroborate what I would feel is disinterest on your part. Perhaps this is what those women felt.

Personally, if I’m not interested in someone, I will get the bad news over with on that same date---harsh I know…but I’d rather not continue any false hopes; at the latest when I'm back home by email---no phone call.

If there is chemistry---meaning you both feel it…things need to move a certain way and in a certain speed thereafter. Remember, by now you’ve probably had several emails back and forth and a phone conversation or two…the actual date is to determine if what you assume about each other----all those nuances of attraction can come together between you both. If you’re feeling that pull of strong chemistry…it’s a date…if not it’s a dinner with a friend. When you are on the date and you feel that attraction and know it’s coming back you’re way, you need to make some moves to ramp up things a bit…move forward touching a bit…be sure you end the date with a kiss on the cheek (some will go further, but I caution you here). Grab her hand, tell her you had a great time—how does next week look for another date? Don’t expect to make huge plans right there…just get your intention your call to action out and declared. You cannot be ambiguous about where this is going or where you want it to go.

Follow up on return home with a quick call---no long conversation required. A call is more intimate an email/text is not. Reinforce the good time, express the desire to see her again. Indicate when you'll be getting back to her to work out the logistics/timing of the next date.
 celts123
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 12
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 12:17:46 PM
There have been many threads about this topic. First dates that go reasonably well. A man states that he will call a woman at the end of date and never does. Or a woman tells a man to call her at the end of the date, but she never answers or returns his calls. There have been some instances when a woman and myself had actually agreed to another date. But when I called these women to confirm or finalize plans, they never returned my calls. I think both people may have been interested on each other during the date. But one person changes their mind sometime after the date for any number of possible reasons. Some of the reasons may have nothing to do with the other person.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 13
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 12:31:58 PM

And if you send a msg to them don't make it too general..say something that catches her like 'Wow, I had an incredible time last night..can't wait to see you again'
Good luck..you seem like a wonderful guy who deserves a second date!!!


I thought I said that above... the post-date text or call.

I had one date where the girl was driving an hour home, and was afraid she'd fall asleep, so I called her and we talked for an hour while she drove home, and another hour after that. Great conversation... never heard from her again, after 1 or 2 attempts to call her (left messages, she never called back).

I AM showing my interest, but I'm trying not to come across as a creepy, clingy guy... so I just maintain a connection, without the "Hey, what are you doing tomorrow? The next day? What about the day after that?" kind of banter. You know?

But you'd think out of 200 women, I'd at least get ONE of them making an effort to reciprocate my reaching out to keep the door open. Nope, not a single one.

Good points all around, and I'll certainly try some of these... not sure if I'm going to go kissing every girl on the very first date. If they don't lean in, if they're not showing me some sort of body language that they're interested (hand on the knee, lingering hug that ends in hands holding), then I'm not going to do it. That's just my way. Again... not trying to be labeled the creepy "kiss-on-the-first-date" guy.

Sigh. I guess I'll keep searching.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 14
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 12:33:47 PM

Why did you not offer to change seats with her? And humor, some have a sense of it and some do not. Deliver me please from someone who has to try to be funny.


I DID offer to switch seats before we even sat down, and she said it was fine... and then the waiters were startling her, so I tried to make light of the situation with some jokes, which worked. It wasn't me being overly funny, it was just the right balance. She was laughing the whole time, as was I.
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 15
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 2:56:12 PM
Well OP you need to be real instead of acting like a 20 something and these stupid dating rules. If I'm interested in someone I let them know and I dont go 3 days to date them because it's the cool and in thing to do; ridiculous.

If you like someone you dont smother them but you also communicate.

Acting like women are going to come after you is silly; let them know the next day you enjoyed your date and move on.

There is no science; and if you are not getting responses, then stop choosing flakes. Choose people that are not serial daters looking for a fun time.

You are the common denominator to all of your dates; be real and choose better people; not just ones with tight bodies and pretty faces.

And what the heck are you using the internet as your main dating tool? get out from your computer and get into the real world. stop being a victim and do something about it.
 Kimberish925
Joined: 6/22/2008
Msg: 16
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 3:58:43 PM

After the "date", sometimes I'd text back a "Thanks for the great night, sleep well" kind of message, further showing my interest.
This is sweet, if I have had a really great time I will text to say thanks and good night. It's funny if you both do it at the same time. It is a nice gesture.


A few days later, if I hadn't heard back from them at all, I'd send a polite email, just to keep the lines of communication open.


Why are you waiting to hear from them??? SOME women like to be pursued, to call with in the first 3 days after date 1 may be your best bet. Call with a plan in mind for the following weekend or whatever. They may look at an e-mail as nice but he's not that interested.

I think modern technology has hindered the dating world, text and e-mail are such an easy way out. I'm more impressed when someone picks up the phone and calls.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 17
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 8:00:34 PM

Why are you waiting to hear from them??? SOME women like to be pursued, to call with in the first 3 days after date 1 may be your best bet. Call with a plan in mind for the following weekend or whatever. They may look at an e-mail as nice but he's not that interested.


Because in some cases, I might not HAVE their phone number (yes, if I text them, I probably do, but sometimes all I have is an email).

With a handful of my "dates", I've only had an email, or an IM over some anonymous mechanism, not tied to any real communication, no voice. They don't give out their personal phone number until after the first date, or when they feel comfortable, though I always offer mine, if they want to call from work or a someone else's phone or whatever.


I think modern technology has hindered the dating world, text and e-mail are such an easy way out. I'm more impressed when someone picks up the phone and calls.


I agree, but these methods also give them a way to hide who they are, so they can fade off into the shadows without having to feel guilty about it, or do the "I'm sorry, I'm just not that into you..." via voice.
 Kimberish925
Joined: 6/22/2008
Msg: 18
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/26/2009 8:31:44 PM
Because in some cases, I might not HAVE their phone number (yes, if I text them, I probably do, but sometimes all I have is an email).

With a handful of my "dates", I've only had an email, or an IM over some anonymous mechanism, not tied to any real communication, no voice. They don't give out their personal phone number until after the first date, or when they feel comfortable, though I always offer mine, if they want to call from work or a someone else's phone or whatever.


Never really took the above into consideration. Maybe just me but I have rarely met anyone that I haven't talked to on the phone first and on the rare occasions, if there was a mutual interest, numbers were exchanged at the first meet.
If you're interested in "her" at the first meet, and it seems mutual, don't hesitate to ask for her number. If she isn't willing to give it that may be the only sign you need to know it's going no further.


I agree, but these methods also give them a way to hide who they are, so they can fade off into the shadows without having to feel guilty about it, or do the "I'm sorry, I'm just not that into you..." via voice.


So true...much easier to ignore a text or e-mail and fade away.

Allot has to do with confidence...recently I've been chatting with someone (3 weeks or so). Usual pattern...PoF e-mail, personal e-mail, text. Made a point of giving him my number. We have spoken once. Other than that he will text all day long but doesn't call. Says he doesn't want to bother me, but wants to meet and will say so in text or e-mail. PFFFT...if I don't want to be bothered I won't hear my phone. End of rant...

All I'm saying is don't be afraid to ask for date 2, preferably by phone but by what ever means you have available, if not at the end of the first meet.
 setuid
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 19
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Posted: 4/27/2009 5:09:58 AM

I am going to go against my normal advice and say that it would be prudent of you to get to know these women a bit more before going on a date. I'm not talking about not meeting for months on end, but just taking the time to get to the point you have exchanged phone numbers and have a decent bead on what type of person you are dealing with. A couple of weeks, tops.


If I'm still just talking/chatting to them for a "couple of weeks", they've already left for greener pastures. I've had that happen enough too. It's even more prevalent with online dating. They go out on a date with me, then go home and compare me to the other people in their Inbox, and then either keep or discard, and move on. By the time a couple of weeks has passed, they've gone on a dozen other dates, and I'm just a distant memory, even if I'm talking to them on the phone that whole time.

I had one girl bring me back to her house (followed her there at her suggestion), and she proceeded to log into Match to "show me" how popular she was. Needless to say, that didn't go very far. It's amazing how much people are NOT like the profile they write with their words.

[quoteAlso, don't rely on the internet solely to meet people. If you really are that clever, charming and entertaining - you should be able to make connections off line as well. The 'net is a great tool and allows ease and access to a much larger group of potentials but it should just be one of many tools.

Oh, I certainly don't rely solely on it, I just use it as a means to find people, areas, groups to put myself into, so I meet people. Meeting someone from Match or PoF in-person is easy, because you're both there for the same basic reason. Meeting someone on a train, or in a restaurant, or elsewhere... is not as easy, because the "agenda" is different.

I have no problem walking up to people and striking up a conversation, but in my experience, the people I walk up to to have a generic, opener conversation, think I'm trying to get right into their pants within 10 minutes, and that is most-definitely NOT the case.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 20
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Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/27/2009 6:08:23 AM
Can you answer this for me…Do you call and have a phone conversation with women prior to dating them? I didn’t see this question fully answered yet. It seems that I made a big mistake in my earlier post in assuming that you do.

Dating is a process of peeling back layers. What's unknown gets revealed in stages.

A phone conversation is an important step in the initial stages of dating. Missing this step could very well be what’s holding you back from that 2nd date. A phone call will usually reinforce any initial attraction that I have been feeling toward someone on paper; like-mindedness in humor, intelligence and witty banter, all are necessary for me to find someone attractive; if that exists it usually is very apparent in conversation--if not heightened. To not have a conversation prior to the date puts a lot of emphasis on that one date.

Further, if someone doesn’t have that much invested in you; meaning that you have not spent enough time getting to know them at this level, it may just be easier to just walk away from an initial date, disinterested and not wanting to commit to another outing.

If there’s real interest, I always move to a 2nd date. If I’m at all uncertain, but feel that the connection was there, but something may have been at play, like nervousness--I always agree to a 2nd date, as this date usually confirms true mutual interest one way or another.

You know, my experience is the exact reverse to yours; I’ve never had someone not ask me out for a second date—ever. While I date fairly regularly most of my dates are not from POF. I agree with suggestions to get out there and be open to finding dates offline as well. In either case I think that if you spend more time at the front end of the dating process in expanding this aspect of communication before actually making a commitment to a date with someone; you will likely date less—but be more successful.

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 mjseek
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 21
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/27/2009 7:50:09 AM
Usually on a first Internet date it is normally the man who is making the trip to see a potential date. I say usually not always. So, here's a barometer that may be of some help to you.

Some people just don't have the fortitude to be upfront and honest and that's a pity. They will lead you on, thereby making a simple meeting very complex and confusing.

So if you're thinking the date went well, and you're feeling pretty good about the vibes you were getting and you're pump about the potential. Here's the clincher!

Once you've departed for home, and there is not a call (and by that I mean a phone call, not a text the former being more personal than the other). Inquiring if you had made it home safely than she, or he for that matter is not interested.

Matching actions with words is the apex for being complete!
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 22
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History
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/27/2009 9:45:07 AM
I don't know what the problem is OP, really, but as some have pointed out, you're the common denominator here.

The only thing I can think of is that despite apparently good chemistry, these women decided that you were incompatible in some way and did not want to continue.

Are you screening these women sufficiently before meeting to determine that their values, beliefs, interests, and goals match sufficiently with yours so that - if the physical chemistry exists - a relationship might actually work?

I had short or long exchanges (like you via email, IM, phone) with over 900 women and only met about 50 after careful screening. I only dated about 10 of those more than twice, and only about 3 became any sort of relationship (though a few became friends). One was a keeper - or about 0.1% of the total contacts.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 23
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/27/2009 1:12:31 PM
Dude,

Don't feel bad. But even though the women here are going to tell you to "just be yourself," I believe that you should get your hands on any and all material that may help you improve. For instance the book that Mystery wrote had some incredible pointers that worked incredibly well for me.

Also, even though it's a numbers game, realize that with each encounter you will gain a little more experience and the important thing is not to make the same mistakes over and over again.

When I started dating I would contact about 100 women a week. No mass mailings, but unique messages that created intrigue. So I didn't try to sell myself, but pop a question, make a comments, and elicit a response. Out of that I would start conversing with anywhere from 3 to 7 ladies. Taking it to the next step with one or two. I could almost guarantee to have two dates a week, and since I had one night with the guys, and one night with a FB, my week was rather busy. When I got better, instead of contacting that many women I could achieve the same numbers by contacting 15 to 30 women. So there are improvements that have to do with how you approach them, what you put in your profile, and how you go from e-mail to asking her to meet. What works for one person may not work for another. But I never ever, asked for their phone number before asking them out. Also if they did not provide me with a phone number I would tell them right there that I would then would have to cancel the meeting.

As you get good at one thing, you move to the next thing. For instance I did have the same problem you had of converting first dates into second or third dates. What I leaned is that if you start to set up the second or third date from the get go, it naturally flows there, and even you decide you do not like the girl, it is you doing the rejecting not her. This is a technique I leaned from Pick up Artist, even though their objective was to change venue and sleep with the girl the same night, while mine was simply to get to know the girl better and yes, develop a relationship.

But again, it's a number's games and you are going to meet some women that even though you may like, you really do not want to pursue them further. Anyway, the set up is easy, start talking about stuff that you like that would make and awesome next date. With a tri girl I suggested a place where tri people train, and is really cool. So to then ask her for the date is more like "I thought you'd never ask" sort of response from her.

Once you move into another stage you can go through different learning curves, from asking someone out or getting their phone number, to approaching the first kiss, or even having a rump all night.

My problem was that once I got really good at this, I found one awesome woman that was a real keeper. So it's not a bad problem to have. But there are behaviors that women ALWAYS have and once you recognize them and develop your personal approach to them, you won have the problem you have anymore.
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 24
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:37:08 AM
Is it possible that you're spending more time on statistical analysis than you are on being a date women would be interested in long term?

Are you an accountant? How do you keep track of these numbers? Spiral notebook?

This astounds me to contemplate so early in the morning...this is rather like notches on the bedpost for each sexual encounter isn't it?
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 25
Doing the math: 200/25/0
Posted: 4/28/2009 6:52:38 AM

Op; It is very clear to me now. You do not want answers to your dilemma. Almost all here, myself included, have told you that you are not correctly following through on these dates. You have ignored every single comment that says this.

The only thing you’ve done here is to uphold with explanations your actions that are not working for you. You are not seeking to change your modus operandi but merely seeking sympathy. When someone keeps doing the same thing over and over again then complains that they are being treated unfairly…….they are getting something out of it.


I totally agree with this statement. The OP has come back to every single argument that people, trying to help have pointed out, thus removing responsibility for what has happen. So I can tell you this, your problem with women, is the same problem you have here. You get lost in your analytical b ull, you don't really listen or try to understand the women that you are going out with, and the can see through that, proof is that your bating average is Zero.

So if anything your problem is that by being lost in some analytical mumbo jumbo, you try too hard, and then have consistently failed to make a move, or escalate when the situation had arrived. When you are dating, sometimes you have to make bold moves, well knowing that they may tank.
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