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 urinemyway
Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 1
"Gay" RightsPage 1 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
I came across a discussion group on Facebook called “Gay is not another word for stupid,” in which people protested the use of the word to refer to something or someone thought to be stupid, lame, or ridiculous. Some were quite vehement in their opinions that the use of “gay” to refer to anything except homosexuality was a slur - an insult to gay people.

I wondered, “When did homosexuals get a lock on the word gay?” Why should they get a lock on it?

We know that the word “gay” has had a long history of being synonymous with “happy” and “carefree.” Although it probably doesn’t predate homosexuality, the two weren’t always linked by definition. And, so far, the word hasn’t been registered or trademarked:

Gay®
Gay™
GAY is a registered trademark of the Union of Homosexuals. Any unauthorized use is prohibited.

This isn’t to attack homosexuality, it’s to look at whether language is fluid, and if people can accept the changing nature of language. If a word like “gay” could be redefined to mean “homosexual,” why can’t it change again to mean something different? One could argue that the transition ignored the homosexual aspect altogether and went from “happy” to “stupid.” After all, can’t people be stupidly happy?

Then there’s the stuff with rainbows and, even, the equal (=) sign. I liked it when I could use the equal sign to indicate the sum of my equation. Now I have to worry that I’m indicating that my math problems are LGBT.

Do you think we should be more literal or less literal in how we use “gay” and other words?
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 2
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:32:27 PM
I think homosexuals like most minorities just look for reason to cry. Personally I think homosexuals destroyed the word Gay for me. It is hard for me to sing Deck the Halls. i definately will not don gay apparal. To use the word gay to mean dumb works for me. cleanses it a bit.
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 3
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:39:48 PM

I think homosexuals like most minorities just look for reason to cry.
How many homosexuals have you been around that lament this?

Really OP... it's not the gay community that is promoting this kind of thought... it's a small fraction of gays that want to demand not just equal rights, but to be elevated far above the rest of us lowly heterosexuals...

The same thing is seen in women's liberation... true women's liberation simply want to be treated with respect for our abilities... a small fraction have given it a bad name by wanting also to be considered better.

Personally, I'm ok with sitting back and enjoying the show... got popcorn?
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 4
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:41:02 PM


I think homosexuals like most minorities just look for reason to cry. Personally I think homosexuals destroyed the word Gay for me. It is hard for me to sing Deck the Halls. i definately will not don gay apparal. To use the word gay to mean dumb works for me. cleanses it a bit.


This is a highly disingenuous response. I find it extremely hard to believe that someone growing up in the latter part of the 20th century EVER came to use the word gay in anything other than its most recent context and is now bemoaning its "loss" to the homosexual community. The last time it had wide colloquial use in English for "happy" would have been well before the posters birth.

People use "gay" as dumb or stupid, quite obviously as an anti-homosexual pejorative. Attempting to whitewash it as something else is again, disingenuous bullsh*t.

That all being said... do homosexuals have a "lock" on the word? Hardly. Gay meant happy long before the word became appropriated. It's all about context. But if one uses it in a pejorative, (i.e. "Don't be so gay, Bob) you are being just as insulting as you would be if you were talking about "Jewing" someone down in a bargain...or Gypping them. You're a lying (insert epithet here) if you deny it.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 5
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:56:18 PM
Putting homosexuals in the same on context as race is stupid.
Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.
It is not the same as race. It is a disgrace to equate the jews, blacks ect with a chosen sexual practice.
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 6
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:59:06 PM

Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.
It is not the same as race. It is a disgrace to equate the jews, blacks ect with a chosen sexual practice.
I would recommend you go into a gay rally and tell them what you've posted here... that they have a choice of being attracted to the same sex and if they choose, they could be heterosexual.

Please do that... k?
 oldsoul
Joined: 3/10/2007
Msg: 7
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 2:05:16 PM
I'm French and I'd say that we use the word gai (french spelling) as often as the word happy is used in English - it's also used in different contexts and it's a word that's sometimes hard to replace with another.

But I've adapted to it's new meaning and unless I know who I'm speaking to and know there won't be any misunderstanding, I no longer use it, although it's still okay to use in writing as the spelling is different.

Anyway, regardless if I approve of the word hijack or not, it is what it is and it really is no big deal:).



JMO


Edit: As far as kids using the word gay for dumb or stupid, my granddaughter knows not to use it in that context or in a derogatory manner. Right now, her word du jour seems to be "sick" or "ill" anyway...haha... everything is sick and it doesn't seem to matter whether it means that something is good or bad - it's just sick (or sickest:).

 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 8
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 2:28:11 PM
I know a couple of people who are homosexual who couldn't care less how flexible the word gay becomes.
Flexible words just mean they are used more often. You'll get used to hearing them more often.
My friends and I once, during a car ride, tried to change the word gay to mean anything when put into a particular context. It was a pretty fun game.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 9
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 2:33:35 PM
There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 10
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 2:37:38 PM

There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here... if you are so all fired up about following your god, then why are you divorced?

Last time I checked, God did not condone divorce...
 BBW2Love
Joined: 5/2/2009
Msg: 11
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 3:08:54 PM
To put this into perspective, what group uses the word gay as a pejorative for lame and stupid?

Why middle schoolers do. That is who.

I don't hear anyone else use it this way and if I do, I just figure they have the mentality of a middle schooler.

So let these political action groups go to the middle schools in our country to fight against the use of the word gay as a pejorative. All they'll get is an assembly hall filled with middle schoolers smirking, giggling and poking each other over the use of the word gay.

"Ha ha, You here that he said gay. Ha ha."

"Oh my god your right. Too funny. (snicker)"
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 12
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 3:23:53 PM

There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.


Irony detector just red-lined after God and evidence were used in the same sentence as a justification for anti-homosexual bias.

Clearly, it is indeed someone's right to hold their opinion, provided they stay within the rules of this website while doing so. So long as you do so, in your heart of hearts, you can hold any bigoted hate-mongering notion that you like that warms the c0ckles of your heart and no one can hold it against you.

And the irony somehow escapes you...funny.

Even if homosexuality is a choice, using a religious belief to justify bigotry and persecution is a flimsy and ridiculous justification for base hatred. Of course it is not new. It was used effectively to justify slavery, subjugation of women and aboriginal people, imperialism, and just about every other malcontent behavior white men of privilege and Christian faith have engaged in since time immemorial...so why should persecution of homosexuals be any different.

Of course what do you do about those who are too ignorant to realize that in all likelihood, the admonition against homosexuality in Scripture is entirely cultural bias in any case and changed over history. By the Christian period, the authors were very likely (if one studies the text in the original language...which likely many do not these days) referring to the uncommon but followed practice of pederasty and not specifically adult homosexuality. But of course it's all "heaven-breathed" Scripture so "God said it" right? Human cultural beliefs had nothing to do with it...pull the other one...it has bells on it.



Putting homosexuals in the same on context as race is stupid.
Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.
It is not the same as race. It is a disgrace to equate the jews, blacks ect with a chosen sexual practice


Children are mimics...in case you didn't notice they get tremendous titillation (did that get past the word block? I noticed c0ckles didn't without a zero) by repeating words that adults told them not to say. It makes them laugh themselves silly. It's self-evident how "gay" got into the child's lexicon of pejorative terms to indicate a negative in North American society (the quoted poster's response is evidence enough). The racial epithets are analogous in use to "gay" as an insult...they have just been in the vocabulary longer.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 13
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 4:57:28 PM
psssst, Matthew 5:32-But I say to you whoever divorces his wife for any reason EXCEPT SEXUAL IMMORALITY causes her to commit adultery: and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
1Corin thians 7:15- But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart: a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases, But God has called us to peace
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 14
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 5:13:23 PM

Putting homosexuals in the same on context as race is stupid.
Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.
It is not the same as race. It is a disgrace to equate the jews, blacks ect with a chosen sexual practice.


Soo.... instead it would make more sense to equate it with something else that is chosen, like say..... religion?



There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice.


Actually, this is really pretty untrue. There's a decent amount of scientific evidence that suggests that homosexuality is more likely something akin to a birth defect than it is a chosen lifestyle. But if the only place you're looking for evidence is in the Bible then no amount of anything anyone tells you here is going to get you to look at things from any other perspective.



Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.


And with no disrespect here, with this stance, you can only expect your opinions to be taken so seriously in a discussion like this because they refuse to take into consideration anything other than what comes from one source. So you're essentially arguing your opinions against potentially tangiable explanations.

It's as if someone were to argue, "I believe that the sky is green because this is what my belief system tells me, and I will believe this over any scientific nonsense spoken to the contrary." You are certainly free to believe whatever you like, but you have to realize that you do not really have a leg to stand on in terms of making a logical argument in a discussion like this.

This doesn't necessarily make you wrong, but the problem is that you're not going to convince anyone else that you're right either.
 urinemyway
Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 15
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 5:25:03 PM
Stop arguing about the nature and morality of homosexuality! That is so...um, gay.

This thread is about language and definitions. I like these two viewpoints, even though they're opposed:

Gay meant happy long before the word became appropriated. It's all about context. But if one uses it in a pejorative, (i.e. "Don't be so gay, Bob) you are being just as insulting as you would be if you were talking about "Jewing" someone down in a bargain...or Gypping them.


Using the word gay to refer to something as crap or stupid isn't anti-homosexual at all its just sub-cultural referencing.

I'm not sure, though, that gay is a slur on the level of those other two. One can refer to gays in a contemptuous manner but that doesn't make the word in itself a slur. Not when the word was originally self-applied. Can you have it both ways, depending on who utters the word? I know the comparison most people will want to make with that question, and I assure you it's not the same.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 16
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 5:39:50 PM
An article dealing with this very subject, from simple universal pejorative to fatal, life altering word:



When children die because they're bullied as gay
Naomi Lakritz, Times Colonist
Published: Sunday, February 24, 2008

Walk past any schoolyard at recess time and what do you hear? Kids as young as five calling each other "gay" and "fag."

At junior and senior high school, the word "gay" has become a universally pejorative term: "You're gay," kids sneer at each other, or "That is so gay!" I've even heard "Gay it all!" as an expression of annoyance over some triviality.

Whoever made up the rhyme about sticks and stones, and concluded that "words can never hurt me," never met Shaquille, a 13-year-old boy from Ajax, Ont. Now it's too late for anyone to meet him. Words did more than hurt him. They drove him to kill himself. In November, Shaquille committed suicide. He had been bullied by his classmates after admitting to a friend that he was gay. The friend told everyone else. He was subsequently tormented when he went to school and harassed online on websites set up solely for the purpose of bullying. A few days before he hanged himself, some kids stuffed him into a garbage can.

Where were the teachers and principal in the midst of this boy's unbearable suffering? Where are they in all the other incidents? Why is nothing ever done about the language in the schoolyard?

Helen Kennedy, executive director of Egale Canada, a national advocacy group for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals, says that at one Ottawa-area school, the teacher joined in the bullying.

"A mother called me. Her son came out. He was 16. The gym teacher made fun of how he ran," Kennedy says in a phone interview from her Toronto office. After the boy started shop class, someone left a wooden sex toy on his chair.

"The mother went to the principal but he washed his hands of it. The boy dropped out, four credits short of graduation," Kennedy says.

Another girl whom Kennedy knows of was assaulted, had "dyke" scrawled on her locker and death threats made against her. You don't have to be gay to be bullied like this, either. "Straight kids are being targeted because they're perceived as gay," Kennedy says. Children of same-sex parents are bullied, regardless of whether they themselves are straight or gay.

Egale is partnering with the University of Winnipeg to conduct a national survey, both online on a website and in classrooms, to determine the extent of homophobic bullying in Canadian schools from grades 8 to 12. The survey asks kids if they have been subjected to such bullying, what their sexual orientation is, whether they have "come out," whether teachers or principals have intervened to stop the bullying, and how much of it goes on at school and online, among other questions.

Ted Flitton, spokesman for the Calgary Board of Education, says if Egale wants to do research in Calgary schools, it has to go through an application process, as the board gets a lot of requests to conduct surveys. While the district is not averse to participating in such research, it would not recommend any website to students, until that website has been vetted by officials.

Based on the survey's results, Egale's next move will be to look at developing anti-homophobia units in curriculums. This, naturally, will bring the usual suspects out, protesting about such nonsense as "gay agendas" and "recruitment."
Nobody can be "recruited" into being homosexual because it is not a choice. If it were, then heterosexuals would be able to name the date and hour they sat down to ponder the question of whether to be gay or straight, and opted for the latter.

The only "agenda" here is that of easing the pain of children who are being bullied.

Those who, upon hearing the word "homosexual" are tempted to wield Bibles like weapons, cherry picking arcane proscriptions to use as ammo, would do better to remember the Bible's larger message: Do unto others. Is this how they would want their own children to suffer at school?

The schoolyard seems to be the only place where people are allowed to torment others with impunity, to the point where those who are victimized become suicidal.

If this sort of thing were happening in an adult workplace, it wouldn't be tolerated -- courts and human rights commissions would quickly be involved. But because it goes on at school, it gets dismissed with a shrug -- after all, it's just kid stuff.

"We can't afford not to address this issue," Kennedy says. "No kid should have to go through it, They should be safe."

School as a safe place. Now there's a radical idea.


© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2008


http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Gay

Added here is an interesting tidbit on usage in the 1980-2000's as a pejorative:



When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the term gay is pejorative. The derogatory implication here is that the object (or person) in question is 'cheesy', 'kitsch', or even simply 'bad'. Recently, young bloggers have used "gay" to mean "uninteresting" or "dull" -- just the opposite of the original meaning (e.g.: "That party was so gay."). This usage has its origins in the 1980s, when homosexuality had already become mainstream but was still seen as negative by many people. Beginning in the 1990s and especially in the 2000s the usage as a generic insult became common among young people, who may or may not link the term to homosexuality. This practice is frowned upon in communities that ensure respect for people of all sexual orientations and is considered to be on par with ethnic slurs. Many defenders of the word being used in a pejorative sense choose to spell it "ghey" to avoid any sexual connotations. This change of spelling is criticised by many, who often compare it to using “k” for to evade complaints of racism.


Hardly a trivial issue.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 17
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 6:21:28 PM
A bit off the subject:

Since when is it bad to use the three letter "F" word that sounds like gag?

I thought that was another name for a cigarette ?.......

I was kidding people! Gosh get over it..lol
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 6:38:34 PM

Since when is it bad to use the three letter "F" word that sounds like gag?

I thought that was another name for a cigarette ?.......


You are correct in that it is the slang word for cigarette.

Before and during my generation, it was also the slang word used to describe a homosexual person before the use of the word "gay" came into vogue.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 19
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 6:51:08 PM

I mean i like to sleep with 5'3" dark haired, dark skinned girls but you wouldn't know that from the way i walked,


or your photo...but then again, I dont have Gay-dar.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 7:01:19 PM

No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking.
Clear evidence of a closed, bigoted mind. Conversation with such is a waste of time.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 21
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 7:51:51 PM
Gay use to mean happy, now they have that as well as the rainbow for their symbol.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:17:25 PM
Hate mongering at it's best. Nothing like uneducated, bigots gnashing their teeth over a word they just can't use anymore you know, like other words don't evolve over the years. Just think of all those whiners who can't rap on a door no more, now they have to hear music instead. It's just never ending, the sad sad world of those who think others should have no rights but them....next thing you know, it'll be the damn minorities taking over white sheets and cross burning and death threats! What's the world coming to, how dare there be equality and diversity!
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 23
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:37:51 PM
hi... depending on what era that you were born in gay has many meanings.. words take on new meaning as society dictates at the time and not everyone is up with the times... the example ~sick~ as pointed out means anything but having an illness, well at least it does with the youth or youthful.... as far as the debate on God and on morality goes, what exactly is wrong with having a standard?... without any standard it would be ok to murder, to steal, to rape, to rape children.. I mean without a common standard people will justify their behaviour until the cows come home.... for all of you who say live and let live, perhaps you have never had to counsel a child who was sexually assaulted by her father... why does one father see this as ok when another sees it as a horrible crime??.. when does choice become a matter of right vs wrong???... when God says so, not man .. a hint to those that say religion condemns, pointing it out to a person who is choosing something that God condemns seems more like a ~warning~ or a ~heads up~ rather than a condemnation... using homosexuality just as an example, whether you choose it or are born with it, God as The Law Maker Has Power enough to change any person back into His Image... Jesus was fully man, tempted in all ways yet He was Perfect, He chose to completely submit to God... we have the same option so there is no excuse for staying in something that we know is against God... some people opt to do as they pls while on earth, not caring what Gods Law says but those same people need not be not be surprised that they are not invited to live Eternally with those who do care... every single day people rally in hopes of bringing others to their point of view yet when Christians rally for God, moreso when they rally to have their brothers and sisters choose Eternal Life, they are branded as trouble makers, haters and self righteous bigots or worse... just as I tell myself to submit to God to be changed back into His Image, I tell others, not out of hate but out of love... lastly for now, there are standards in everything in life, we go to work on time, act professionally, dress appropriately and speak correctly for the paycheck... God has set out His Standards for Eternal Life so why do we think that we can give Him less than His Standards for His Paycheck??... High and Noble Standards are a Blessing, warmly Mona
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 8:43:36 PM
Standards and hate for one's own purpose are two totally different things. Using religion to promote hate is no better than using hate to promote anything. Cover it up anyway you like, but hate is just that, hate.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 25
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/9/2009 10:24:30 PM


as far as the debate on God and on morality goes, what exactly is wrong with having a standard?...without any standard it would be ok to murder, to steal, to rape, to rape children.. I mean without a common standard people will justify their behaviour until the cows come home.... for all of you who say live and let live, perhaps you have never had to counsel a child who was sexually assaulted by her father... why does one father see this as ok when another sees it as a horrible crime??


I can't imagine the "hypothetical" person you are describing. Such a person need not be a theist to find such a situation reprehensible or evil. You seem to be implying that only theists have morals or standards and this is simply not the case...it's not even really a defensible position.



.. when does choice become a matter of right vs wrong???

Choice for what? Homosexuality as right or wrong? And it's wrong when God says so? Well that's a lovely belief but not everyone shares this belief...it is not universal and it is a belief, it is not something that is testable or provable. You are entitled to have it, but not to inflict it on others in a free civil society.

As well to make the comparison of homosexuality to child molestation, murder, rape or thievery, might carry some cache to certain religious believers...but most members of civil society find the comparison bigoted and disgusting...tantamount to anti-Semitism, racism against other races, and similar mud raking.
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