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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.      Home login  
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 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 2
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
"I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers." --John D. Rockefeller

Looks to me like ol' Rocky got his way. People who don't think don't usually ask too many questions, or complain. Have we given any consideration to the idea that perhaps our society is like this by design?
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 4
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/30/2009 1:02:19 PM
and yet our brains ended up with more freakin potential then anyone will ever seem to need in this lifetime.
 iherdcats
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 5
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/30/2009 4:37:23 PM
the arrogant worms! too funny! love those canadian guys ... rocks and trees and trees and rocks!

OP, I have asked the young one to be a bit more clear with their words... what is the point? they are unable to see any of the benefits that come with age, heck they seem to think in the moment only.

were you hoping the the government could change any of this? less stress, less poverty and more education might help, but the motivation really needs to come from within.
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 6
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/30/2009 9:34:26 PM
"A human today does not reach full intellectual maturity until the age of about 25 years old"

I read that it was 35, concerning the abilty to predict how others will react to something you may do. Coincidentally, you can't be President (US) till your...35!
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 7
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/30/2009 9:38:56 PM
I don't agree. There is a huge difference in the maturity level of a 21 year old female and a 28 year old female.

Males, now, apparently we all stop maturing emotionally at about age 14, but, you see, belching, beer farts, playing most sports and rebuilding carburetors doesn't require any more emotional maturity than killing tigers, herding mastodons, playing with sharp sticks or peeing on fire, so we're good with 14.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 8
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/31/2009 3:04:59 AM
I don't think that it's necessarily that people don't develop. Rather, they develop as far as they are able. The bell curve on IQ dictates that most people can go only so far.
 kornbluth
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 9
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/31/2009 4:36:17 AM

Their minds are stunted with mindless television and movies, childish advertising that targets the infantile mind, poor parenting, and parents not passing down important life lessons to their children...

That's a big part of it right there. The juvenile market became huge after WWII because kids have had lots of money to spend. It comes from the parents, of course.

Another thing is that kids are usually in school until they're 18. In that time they're not taught to earn a living, or to do much else except more damned school. Then they graduate owing enormous student loans. So, rather than an education, they're getting indentured servitude. That'll keep 'em down for a while longer, won't it?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 10
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/31/2009 4:57:58 AM
RE Msg: 1 by 13571113:

First, I'd just like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment that people aren't as mature as their years.

Now, with that in mind:
At the age of 18 a persons physical body matures into an adult. PHYSICAL BODY, matures into an adult.
I can tell you that I was still growing until about 20. Many women appear to me to still be growing physically until about 25, and some until about 30.

A human today does not reach full intellectual maturity until the age of about 25 years old,
That's an oft-quoted sentiment.

The only evidence that I have that relates maturity to the age of 25, is that until 25, one keeps growing new brain cells, or at least hardly any die off, and once we reach 25, about 100,000 brain cells die off every day. So it COULD be argued, that as your brain is still growing, then you are in some way still mentally developing, and so still mentally immature.

The thing is, that growing doesn't mean immaturity at all. Immaturity means that with all that you've learned, you're still not capable of doing the basics yet. Immaturity is a reflection of how well you've understood the information given to you, and how well you act on it. It speaks about nothing about the ability to grow itself. Indeed, many argue that if one stops growing and learning, that is the true sign of immaturity, since the world is ever-changing, and so he who thinks he's learned all he ever will need, is the biggest fool of all.

Even more disturbing is that many people today, and it is the MAJORITY of people, never mature intellectually into an adult. Their minds are stunted with mindless television and movies, childish advertising that targets the infantile mind, poor parenting, and parents not passing down important life lessons to their children, and generally, people not having or wanting to ever think very hard about anything, and being dependent on society and government to be their mommy and daddy for them.
That's definitely true, as you can see that many adults behave exactly as do teens, just with older bodies and over different interests. But their behaviours and their Freudian slips, those slight behaviours that are indicative of the way they think, remain identical often throughout life, indicating that for them, they stop growing, and stay as they were.

However, if we acknowledge that, then we also have to accept that teens react. They don't choose much for themselves. So, if their actions are as a result of anything, it is a result of the adults among us, us.

We'd also have to accept that many of the adults operating trucks and lorries, heavy machinery, and taking on difficult responsibilities, are ALSO teens. If we treat them like teens, then we'll have to take those responsibilities away from them, and then there would be so few people fulfilling such jobs, that our society would fall apart.

Perhaps there is a middle ground, where we can look at how to give people positive incentives to mature as human beings. Maybe classes on maturity itself: what it means, why it's important, and how it can be accomplished. I think that would accomplish the aim of helping people achieve maturity.

RE Msg: 2 by JustDukky:
"I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers." --John D. Rockefeller
In the UK, we're not that keen to work either. If the US is anything like the UK, then Rockefeller just got jobsworthys instead.

RE Msg: 3 by claretshade:
There is some research- mainly in addiction medicine- that would seem to indicate that one's cognitive development stays anchored to the patterns it had when a person started using drugs.

I.e., if you got stoned regularly in high school, your brain still thinks its a teenager until you STOP getting high.
While I can understand that, there are many other factors that stunt one's emotional development. Trauma such as sexual abuse, or chronic heavy physical abuse, can stop emotional development, and leave the person in the same state of mind. So can other traumas. So can an environment where the teen is being pandered, and simply has no incentive to grow further.

Moreover, it's not hard-wired. With effort, one can develop more emotionally. It's just that it's not easy. But with explanation of why it is worth it, and with support and encouragement, it is quite feasible for most of us to develop more.


As for a total freeze- I call complete and utter nonsense.
I am glad that we can agree on this.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 11
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 5/31/2009 6:34:29 AM
to me the biggest issue is, few think for themselves.

takes a lot of effort to totally think for yourself.

dont know if we are even able to do it 100%.

its a choice to at least give it a continual try.

you will need continual input of various types.

then there is the problem of humans fooling themselves.

we do seem to need '' help!''
 Go Rin No Sho
Joined: 1/9/2009
Msg: 14
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 6/2/2009 9:34:07 PM
Dude,

Your info is definitely part of some large government agency's infobabblespeak.

Take into account the incessant "dumbing down" of all public intelligence metrics, and compared to the intellectual dark ages, of say, 50 years ago, most of today's "adults" are arrested developmentally in the pre-teens.

And if you're thinking about the elusive "emotional IQ", well, just turn on the telly and you'll get your answer.

Spock out.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 15
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 6/3/2009 5:24:10 AM

A human today does not reach full intellectual maturity until the age of about 25 years old, if it is allowed to develop to its full potential. So an 18 year old person should not be considered an adult, yet generally we accept an 18 year old as a full adult. You are old enough to drink, vote, smoke, take someone to court, take out a mortgage, or make a pornographical viodeo. But your mind is still that of a teenager.
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The definition of an adult needs to be looked at a little more closely in my opinion.

Wow.

When you are 3, you have very little freedom and power. It's because you're 3 - you're a child. When you're 10, you've earned more privledges, mommy doesn't watch you as closely as she did, and you're allowed to go riding on your bike to the park by yourself.

When you're 13/14, you can go to the school dance, and stay out as late as 11:00, as long as you come straight home afterwards - and you're assumed to be responsible enough for that.

When you're 18, you can smoke, drink, join the army and get your butt shot off, marry, vote, yadda yadda yadda.

Does it really MATTER if you will mature more as you grow older, as long as you have the maturity to handle the rights and responsibilities that you've been given? And make no mistake - for all the "Get off of my lawn!" type comments you hear here from people bemoaning the immaturity of youth today, the overwhelming majority of 18 year olds ARE mature and responsible enough to smoke, drink, get married, have children, and get their butts shot off.

op - you're only 25. Maybe you'll figure it out when you've finished maturing.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 19
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 6/6/2009 10:52:11 AM
because they choose not to.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 22
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 6/6/2009 2:46:57 PM

With the internet now making knowledge available to all there's not much excuse and I don't think it's as bad as it used to be by any stretch. This is not the 50's.

Yes, knowledge is now made available to all - unfortunately, it's usually drowned out by blogs and blogs and blogs of horsehockey - and the situation is much, much worse.

In the '50s, if you heard anything about anything, it was from a couple of people who were most likely life-long experts in their fields, carefully vetted by the gatekeepers - reporters on tv, newspaper or radio. All other things being equal (which they seldom are), the information you had was *probably* relatively good - it had a high signal-to-noise ratio. Granted, you then had the opposite problem - if the gatekeepers were biased out out to lunch, then so too was the info that you were given - and you had no real alternatives.

Today, it's the opposite - too MANY sources, and no quality control. Very few people are experts in more than on, or at most, two fields - and they don't have the expertise to be able to properly evaluate the info on most subjects outside their particular areas - especially if they are highly technical areas (law, science, mathematics, medicine, etc).

You can have somebody who's spent the last 50 years, and won 3 Nobel prizes publish an article in a professional journal - a dense, technical work of 30 pages. AP publishes a 3 sentense story about said article, the blogospher picks it up, and you have bored 10 year olds sitting in their basement blogging away happily, discussing an article they don't understand, written by a reporter who read the press release put out by the journal in question. Guess what gets the most hits on google? You got it - the blogs of the 10 year olds (or scientologists, right/left/middle wing nutcases, special interest groups, etc) - because they are the ones who understand how to get the hits.

Oh, yeah - the article in question, which can only really be understood by maybe 5,000 people in the world anyway, appears in 15th page of results.


Back to the OP. I agree, few are mature at 18 if any but nobody wants to be responsible nor is capable of it for them any longer than that I expect. Plus they are physically mature enough to work so that's what they are pushed to do unless they go on to uni.

Really? There have been a few studies out recently that 18-24 year olds today drink less, do less drugs, and are arrested less per capita then what *our* generation was - so it would be very, very easy to make the case that they are MORE mature than we were at their age.

Saying teenagers, as a group, are irresponsible because you see the idiots on tv is as silly as saying that all gays dress like Carmen Miranda because you saw a lot of people wearing fruit hats at the gay pride parade.

If society encouraged critical thinking people could not be hoodwinked into following corrupt politicians or sent as cannon fodder for yet another war that only profits people like Rockerfeller and his clan so yes I think it's by design that way.

I rest my case - this is a perfect example.

First - Rockefeller has been dead for what - 50 years? Give it up already.
Second .... think about this very, very carefully.

You are the Rockerfeller in question. What would serve you better - a society where there is a very small pool of underpaid people who can get information to the general public (editors, publishers, reporters), or a society where anybody can read anything at any time?

Apply your "critical reasoning" skills to THAT question - you might be surprised at your own answer.
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 25
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/15/2010 9:03:22 AM
Are you really all that sure that having most of the population develop their full intellectual potential would be a good idea?

So most people are infantile, fine. What's the big problem?

The society is either being well run or it is not. Does the absolute number of the participants change things?

Does it necessarily improve things if there are more, or is that a completely unproven assumption? Isn't what we're talking about equally susceptible of being used in favour of either argument?

Restrict voting to those who are over 65 that pass tests for advanced cognition and emotional empathy.

Try to bring every teenager up to the level of practical wisdom that someone over 65 with advanced cognition and emotional empathy has.

Explain to me how the infantile behaviour patterns of most of the population works decisively in favour of either position, or even against the status quo.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 27
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:45:19 AM
I think I stopped maturing after the age of 16 or so. I still feel and act like a kid.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 28
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/17/2010 11:36:59 PM

What I remember from college physiology is that the human brain isn't even completely hard wired, or finished developing, until at least the age of 25.


According to the current state-of-the-art in neuroscience, ...there are many important aspects of the brain's wiring that happen within an opportunity window that closes at puberty. This may not have a lot to do with the aspect of maturity, ...but in those who aren't exposed to the types of learning that have a measurable impact on the brain's wiring for life past 14, ...there is a very real physiological deficit in brain wiring that can't easily be fixed. Yet, the most influential area of learning/wiring is in the area of public education most targeted for cut-backs by conservative/right wing governments (regardless of country/region).

Keep 'em stupid, ....it DOES work for some world views.

But, really ...I do agree with your delineation for maturity at the age of 25, unless there are individual prodigies who merit being treated otherwise, merit being the operative word...

It's no wonder that the soldiers of almost every armed forces on the planet are recruited and trained while still ...non-adults. In the US for example, over 80% of armed forces personnel were recruited before the age of 20. Most soldiers are in fact, ...children, ...even in the US.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 29
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/18/2010 12:02:43 AM
For a while at least, but then even the soviet union and the chinese saw the light..


Actually, both of these regions have always been good for teaching those subjects that manifest in the time sensitive skills that lead to measurably more synaptic connectivity and hemispherical efficiency in the brain. It's only in the last decade or two that the conservative influence over public education in the west has succeeded in abandoning the teaching that is easily evidenced by fMRI brain mapping, ...to be essential to achieving maximum brain connectivity.

Sorry guv, ..you got that one backwards.

BTW, ....do you know what the devil's interval is? an asymmetrical parental cluster?
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 30
Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/18/2010 2:10:16 PM

Thank you for making my point.

Pick and chose the bits you need to build your straw man, ...they're free for the asking - no thanks necessary.


I am aware that children who have musical training from a very early stage in life have a tendency to be more adept at math.


The "diminished returns" point begins at about the onset of puberty and the door pretty much closes as it progresses. Also, this isn't just a "helps math" bonus, ...it's a "helps thinking" one. Esecially in regards to the two sides of the brain working together.


Especially, if exposed to Mozart and other forms of music with a lot of repeats...

The "Mozart Effect" turned out to be mostly bunk, if you are at all interested in the neurological cutting edge in regards to music training and how it changes the brain for the better, check out Daniel Levitin's work at McGill University.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 32
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Most adults never develop intellectually past teenagers.
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:43:03 AM

Classical music (Baroque, Classical, Romantic Era etc...) composition most often followed a structure known by the formula ABACABA, which describes the 'repeats' you speak of.


ABACABA (aka rondo form) definitely was not the most frequently used form. If anything I would say it would be binary (ABA/ABA1) or Sonata (intro, exposition, development, recap, coda) are the more popular forms of music

I do agree with your comment about correlation and causation. I -have- found that in the school bands that I've been in, the smarter kids tend to be in band, but often times, I think it has to do more with already being smart and just wanting to find another avenue to challenge their minds, so they take up music.
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