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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?      Home login  
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 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 2
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?Page 1 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Natural life in prison is cheaper than Death Penalty. If the person didn't do it, there's hope of possibly being absolved in the future.
If they did do it, they must live their life knowing and realizing their actions.

That being said, I would inflict the death penalty on anyone that gravely harmed my loved ones!
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 5
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 2:20:27 AM
Well, I didn't do the research. But I know that they say that states spend a fortune to execute one person.

In all actuality, you COULD execute someone for about $0.25.

And I'm sure someone would donate the gun!
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 10
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 3:22:00 AM
Conjugal visits are only allowed in, I think, one state (CA) and even then to a very limited set of inmates. I don't think maximum security qualifies ya.
I don't know of any states where inmates have access to computers with internet capabilities. Too much risk of illegal activities.
Most maximum security prisons only let an inmate out of his cell for one hour per day. Shower time may or may not be included in that hour.
So, they spend the rest of their lives, basically, in a 12 foot by 12 foot cube. Eating and drinking, sleeping, crapping, etc. Lots and lots and lots of time to think.

Not to mention that the inmates life is controlled. Told when to eat, what to eat. When to sleep and when you have to be up. What mail you can or can't send/receive. Someone is going to review your mail before you get it. So your envelopes are opened before you get them. The inmates contact with the outside world, is controlled.

I have friends that can't be alone or quiet for more than an hour. Put them in a room the size of a walk-in closet and leave them to their thoughts for an extended period of time?
LMFAO..........they'd go fricken insane!
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 13
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 5:31:48 AM
@ cultured...

Out of curiosity - would you tell us what it was, exactly, that made you change your stance?

One poster brought up the idea that the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment. While the penalty *itself* may be cheaper, it's the years and years of appeals that add to the costs.

And, since it's already been brought up... assuming God wants someone dead, there's a chance that S/He is *directing* the prosecutors and courts to that end... if you believe that God influences our daily lives, you have to admit to the possibility.

The 'Eye for An Eye' argument is a little off-base. My own interpretation of that passage taught me that the severity of the punishment should never EXCEED that of the crime. In other words, it's a lesson in MERCY, not reciprocation.

Personally, I see two possible alternatives to straightforward executions...

First - indentured servitude. The guilty party is required to do work, but his ENTIRE income is used to support the families of his victims. He keeps ONLY enough to subsidize his 'personal upkeep' - food, prison maintenance, etc. NO luxuries like cable TV.

Second (last-resort) - if execution MUST be done, then let it be done in a hospital... so that his organs can be harvested for donation. That way, a condemned murderer can potentially SAVE more lives than they took.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 15
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 8:38:36 AM

Now, I've decided that nobody but God should put somebody to death.


That's great--IF you believe in god or if your gods don't say, "Fry 'em."

Deciding on an issue such as the death penalty based on what one believes "god" wants is not logical or rational because of the many types of religious beliefs. Why should your ideas about god apply to anyone but yourself?


I did bring God up, but I didnt say anything about The Bible.


You didn't have to bring up the bible: it doesn't matter which religion you espouse, not everyone believes as you do.


Not the Bible, Torah, Quran, or any other book of monotheism condones killing. Not in any form.


Au contraire. Read the Hebrew Scriptures: they are full of Yahweh telling the Jews to go into the land of Canaan and to smite/kill the enemy. The Quran sanctions the killing of non Muslims.

And how religiouscentric of you! I am pagan, not monotheistic; I guess that means than my views don't count!

If someone commits a heinous crime and is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be guilty, that person should be put to death. With advances in forensics, DNA testing, etc., it is easier and easier to prove guilt beyond that shadow.
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 19
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:13:32 AM
now wait a min here..........before all the self proclaimed "bible experts"...[no......i'm not one myself]...start saying theres nothing in the bible about exicutions.[as opposed to killing in war]......the bible most certainly DOES support capital punishment for several crimes....the method proscibed in the bible is stoneing to death......[no.it DOESNT mean provideing all the pot needed].......stoneing means that the entire community does the exicution by pelting the criminal with stones till hes dead.....the punishment is meeted out by the community as a whole........that way...no one person acted as the exicutioner
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 20
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 10:15:38 AM
I firmly support the use of the death penalty.

We have a rather lengthy appeals process here in the U.S.; many inmates live on death row for years before they are executed.

For those who 'get religion' while serving time, I'm happy. I still support the death penalty.

I don't believe that the death penalty necessarily deters anyone else from committing a murder, but it certainly ensures that that one person will not be committing any more.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 22
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:05:40 PM
I'm an atheist so the God(s) argument is meaningless to me. Besides all the Gods I've read about sent people to kill in it's name, so there goes that theory.

I'm a democrat, I believe in the death penalty and I would like to see it broadened to include child molesters/abusers and thieves. I believe in the right to bear arms too. I believe in the right to have birth control & abortions. I believe we are our brother's keeper and some things should be given to the poor by the rich, but there are limits and being too lazy isn't a good reason to get rather than give. I believe all children should have a parent at home raising them. I believe in universal health care but I'm not sure what's the best way to go about it or how to stop the rich from raping it or getting better care in some way that cheaps the rest of the people.

I think party lines are a bit bullshit and that it's fairly simple to know right from wrong and easy to do right, while wrong takes a lot of planning.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 23
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:07:44 PM
Though I think you could make a case for the death penalty based on the Bible, the case for mercy is greater. Jesus intervened for a woman about to be stoned to death. He said they judged her correctly, but he showed mercy. Too bad that then governor of Texas, George W. Bush did not have this in mind in the case of Karla Faye Tucker. After finding her husband or boyfriend in bed with another woman, Karla took a pick-axe to them. While spending 2 decades on death row she had a religious conversion. Unlike many so called "conversions" this one seemed to be real. Everyone who knew her said she was a completely different person than the one who did the crime. Many religious leaders including the Pope tried to convince Bush not to execute her. Instead Bush went on the radio and mocked her pleas for mercy before he had her executed as planned. So much for mercy.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 26
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:41:19 PM

The question is "do you believe in the death penalty." It is obviously logical and rational to include one's faith in the personal decision of what he or she believes in. No one suggested that his belief applies to you... he is not "deciding" on an issue, he is expressing an opinion. His personally held beliefs on the subject are not an attack on you... so why the hostility?


I don't know why you think my response was hostile! But you are wrong if you think that the religious ideology of people don't affect those who do not share that ideology. Right now, the debate about abortion and stem cells is based mainly on religious beliefs.

The OP bases his decision on his belief in god: He asked for opinions and my opinion is that while he is entitled to his belief, it should have no bearing in a political arena. Am I not entitled to my opinion?


What, pray tell, would the point of the thread be if we all believed the same thing?


And yet you point out that by stating MY opinion and saying that I disagree with the OP that I am hostile?


Darlin, your issues are showing. How about you just express your own view of the death penalty instead of feeding into the delusion that strangers' thoughts on the matter are a direct assault to your beliefs?


Sweetie-pie, when someone makes remarks about religions that are only monotheistic, I feel obligated to let him/her know how short-sighted that is and that other beliefs do exist. Some people don't seem to think that polytheistic religions count for anything.


(see here I'm modeling for you how to respectfully disagree.)


I was not disrespectful--it is merely your opinion that I was. And you are certainly entitled to misread and misinterpret what I say and the intent behind it.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 27
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:57:48 PM

I've read the Quran in its entirity, in English, and Arabic... God does not condone 'hate' killing in Islam.


Since I don't read Arabic, I can only go by translations, and I did not take these out of context:


Sura 002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.


http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/002.qmt.html


004.089
YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
PICKTHAL: [. . .]if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
SHAKIR: [. . .]but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/004.qmt.html

And my personal favorite:


The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - Sura 2 98:51


Of course, this last verse doesn't say to kill pagans, just that we are vile creatures.


but I also never inplied that you should think like me.


I will give you that, but at the same time, I bet you would like to see your preference put into place, eh? :)
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 30
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 4:19:27 PM
[edited]....................................................................................................................
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 33
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/7/2009 4:34:07 PM

However, the Bible does preach the law of an Eye for an Eye, but it does not say anything about a Life for a Life



justification comes from the 14th Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States.

Part of Section 1. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

So if a State provides Due Process, the state can deprive any person of Life...if it so chooses
 itsmillertime6227
Joined: 9/19/2008
Msg: 37
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/8/2009 1:47:06 AM
"If you kill somebody in Texas, we will kill you back" hahaha

"Some states are trying to outlaw the death penalty...my state's putting in an express lane." hahaha (If more than two people saw you commit the crime you go straight to the front of the line).

Gotta love Ron White and my Texas.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 38
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/8/2009 1:57:42 AM
Texas is prime example of the lack in deterrent value of the death penalty.

Texans obviously have too big of an ego to realize that something is majorly amiss in their state. And it ain't the death penalty.
 itsmillertime6227
Joined: 9/19/2008
Msg: 39
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/8/2009 2:35:29 AM
"Gross State Product
The Texas gross state product (GSP) for fiscal year 2007 was $1,116.81 billion in current dollars, according to the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts. If Texas were a nation, its economy would rank as the tenth largest in the world by Gross Domestic Product, according to the latest 2007 Comptroller's estimates. Since the 1986 recession, the Texas economy has been steadily diversifying.
International Trade
In 2007, for the sixth year in a row, Texas was ranked as the number one state by export revenues. Texas exports for 2007 totaled $168.16 billion, which is approximately $17.3 billion more than 2006 and represents an 11.45 percent increase"

I think we're just fine, thank you very much.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 40
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/8/2009 6:56:58 AM
Ok.. test time here... how many of you posted on the sabbath?


What does that have to do with anything...

..............................................................................................................................

Dont judge Texas on Ron White or any othe blowhard...

Texas has a fair and ballanced Legal system...I enjoy a peacefull and safe city, due to the traditions of Texans and a no-nonsence Legal system...and to dedicated Law enforcement...

Texas has executions because We as Texans want it and it is Protected by the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution...
 cowtrucker
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 47
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/12/2009 5:04:08 PM
I like the way Texas feels about Capital Punishment.... They have an EXPRESS Lane!

I do feel that if a criminal feels that his/her own Death may be a consequence of his/her actions, I have a hard time believing that he/she would not think twice about committing the crime in the first place.

I don't feel that some people should be made to be the example in the situation, however, If the consequences are steeper, I think crime would be less. Just like when we were kids... If mom & dad were too lenient than we as children were most likely to go do it again without thinking. If the punishment was stiffer, we thought twice about it.

CowTrucker
Chapman, Kansas
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 48
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/12/2009 5:54:26 PM
Ex-Youth Pastor Gets Life
Matthew Andersen Convicted Of Sexually Abusing Teenage Boy

POSTED: Friday, June 12, 2009
UPDATED: 8:41 am CDT June 12, 2009


NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas -- A former New Braunfels youth pastor was sentenced Thursday to life in prison for sexually assaulting a teenage boy.

Jurors took 45 minutes to decide punishment on Matthew Andersen, who was found guilty Wednesday on seven counts of sexual assault and indecency with a child.

Because Andersen had a prior conviction in a similar case in 2003 while he was a youth pastor in Alabama, a relatively new Texas law provided for "enhanced punishment," which made the defendant eligible to receive a life sentence.

During closing arguments, prosecutor Steve Delemos told jurors that Andersen "has made it abundantly clear that he's a predator. The only thing we can do with predators is lock them away."

The victim, who was 16 when he was a member of the Tree of Life Church in 2005, told jurors that Andersen blamed the sexual encounters on visions from God.


Sorry this happen to this young man...but hopefully many will be safe...
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 50
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/17/2009 8:54:57 PM
Life in prison cheaper? I doubt it. It costs $25000 to keep them there and it's our tax dollars. Then we pay fot the court system, the judge defense attorney, etc.

I am for death penalty given it is proven beyond doubt that this person killed another.

A dog bites or mauls someone and it gets killed, yet we keep child molesters, rapists, and murderers alive
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 55
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/18/2009 6:00:33 AM
This 'sitting on death row for "X" number of years and appealing the decision' is both a joke and a waste of tax payers money


I dont have a problem with an inmate sitting Death Row till all his appeals are heard...
If a State cant afford Justice, then they should not have the Death penalty...Hes gonna be sitting in a cell on a Life charge anyway...Where is the Logic in that.
 NurbyDriver
Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 57
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 6/18/2009 9:24:54 AM
I believe in the Death Penalty. I also say give them a limited number of appeals.

You want to make the death penalty a deterrent? Televise one ....and require every inmate in every state and federal prison to watch it. Right now it's an abstract to them, make it real and it will be a deterrent.

I am quite certain that public beheadings, stoning and hangings in Muslim countries- as horrific as they are- DO serve as a deterrent for good or ill.

I'm not saying I have any respect for their laws or the way "justice" is meaded out in those countries, just that witnessing something like that is almost certain to have a deterrent effect.
 Gangster Kitten
Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 58
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:01:36 AM
I feel that the death penalty is nothing more than sating some biblical need for revenge. I'm sure the people the person killed don't give a damn if he's executed or not - because they're DEAD.

Sending some dude to the proverbial gas chamber aint gonna bring their victims back.

"I need closure" is a euphamism for "I want revenge."

 readyfornow
Joined: 5/15/2009
Msg: 59
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/7/2009 12:32:10 PM
Do I believe in the Death Penalty? Absolutely. Furthermore, I think executions should be televised. Good deterrant.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 70
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:50:33 AM

i firmly disagree with the death penalty because it makes the law contradict itself. someone has to adminster the lethal injection. someone has to flip that switch to carry out an execution. whoever that person is, doesn't that make them a murderer?


No. The executioner is an agent of The State, And the State is allowed to execute a criminal as long as the state provide Due Process to the person in his legal precedings.

The Consttutions 14th amendment, sec 1...

... No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

***Meaning if the state provides "Due Process" a person can lose their life.

...........................................

and for all you that quote Bible passages..."Eye for an Eye", save it for sunday school. There no Justification for the Death Penalty used from the Bible.
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