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 AUTHOR
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 9
THIS THREAD IS FOR EVERYONEPage 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I have to say that my truth with my spirtuallity comes from my faith. Some wont understand that, but as I explain maybe it will be more clear.
I know what I feel when I am talking with the lord, is true. I have not had the oppurtunity to be well educated, so my truth is from the feeling I do get. I dont even think that if i was educated in some of the things that get the discussion here, that it would make me believe any different of a truth than I already know.
My moving towards the lord has came from truth, the truth of the feeling i get when the holy ghost enters my soul, and all I want to do is shout it at the top of my lungs, THANK YOU JESUS. My faith keeps me strong in the truth. Because I am not educated, my faith is my wisdom. I dont need to try to find a greater existisnse I already know him.
So u see truth to me is my lord, my faith, and my being
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 21
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/20/2004 10:45:12 PM
It is not within human capacity to know if there is a God or not. However, most evidence (such as the fact that evil exists) would point towards no God.
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 22
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/20/2004 11:48:04 PM
How does the fact that evil exists have any bearing on whether god exists or not....Are you feeling a little hard done by today? God gave us freewill-without this we would be just like the animals-No good no bad just instinctual survival. We wouldn't know the difference between good or evil.. This makes us very different from every other species on the planet. The power to choose. Maybe you are right in one way--
Some humans don't have the intellectual capacity to even comprehend what god could mean or doesn't mean for that matter. It isn't for all to think about. God doesn't want to have us stay sheep for ever--unless you choose too. He wanted us to make the choice whether we love all that is god or destroy all that which is god. What side do you sit on? If there was no god you may as well go and do everything that you know to be evil because there would be no reason to do otherwise.. Am I makng any sense?
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 24
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/21/2004 8:59:42 PM
What about evil such as terminal illness. No one has the freedom of choice when it comes to a life of pointless suffering. If there was an all powerful, omniscient, omnibenevolent God, don't you think he would stop his child from suffering pointlessly?

For example; say, that a parent had the power to stop his/her child from acqiring a debilitating, excrutiatingly painful, and deadly disease. What if the parent didn't stop it from happening? You would think he/she was a monster.

If there is a God, he must not be good, but EVIL.
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 26
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:19:02 AM
Believe it or not people do have a choice whether they suffer needlessly or not. First of all everything in life has a point whether you wish to accept it or not. You may not always see the reason for an action or a consequence but there is always at least one. Even a mudslide that wipes out a city only started with one grain of dirt on a hillside. Who would think a grain of dirt would have the possibility to wipe out a thousand lives? Once this idea is accepted you may realize that so called "suffering" is actually a really good place to grow from. ie-Look at what Cristopher Reeves did during his suffering.. Gods world is much bigger than just us- he should not just come in and perform a miracle healing everytime someone has an illness because the rest of us would never look for a cure for anything. Or ever try to help those in need because we wouldn't have too and there is no choice to do the right thing there. He gave us all the tools- we just have to figure out how to use them and with choice we learn why to use them..

Canttouchthis you said "For example; say, that a parent had the power to stop his/her child from acqiring a debilitating, excrutiatingly painful, and deadly disease. What if the parent didn't stop it from happening? You would think he/she was a monster. "
I know that you are referring to god as the parent and us as the children-Maybe you should look at it this way- If you kept your kid locked up in his room till he was thirty and didn't let him learn about hot objects and traffic and high places and all the dangerous things we tell kids to watch out for I would bet you if you sent him up to the store a block away he wouldn't make it...Isn't it evil to not let a person learn from his mistakes? In that case, who's the monster?
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 28
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 12:45:15 PM
Silverthorn, you said- Sorry but you are confused about God and you speak from opinion and out of lack of experience...

And what do you speak from? Solid tangible truth? If so, please enlighten me.

As far as lack of experience, you may be right. One argument for the existence of God is miracles. I have never personally witnessed one. Therefore, I could be speaking from lack of experience.

You're also right when you say I speak from opinion (as we all do). My opinion is based upon logic and facts. What is yours based upon, faith?
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 30
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 12:54:41 PM
I almost forgot...

As to Christopher Reeve... You're saying he didn't suffer needlessly because he raised awareness of spinal cord injury. What good is it to raise awareness of something that doesn't have to exist in the first place? What parent (yes, parent is analagous with God for my purpose) would let his child become paralyzed? Do you think Christopher lived a more fulfilling life because he couldn't walk?
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 31
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:02:21 PM
Canttouchthis Let me say this to u ~~~ u should go back and read the forums before u post because silver will tell ya that faith has nothing to do with it but it does. U see God is not evil but all good and sometimes we have to learn the hard way that he is right. Even us sinners saved by grace, have trials and tribulations. The lord said that he would be with us, not that it would be easy. And people would think the parents to be monsters, but God gave his only son. so that we may have eternal life. Miracles r all around ya. God has his hand on everything in this old world.
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 32
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:06:23 PM
Slick, thanks for the advice... In short, self knowledge is a mental state or awareness of oneself. Self knowledge is known a priori (through reasoning (opinion?) and not experience). Here is the source: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/self-knowledge/
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 33
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:11:24 PM
Everytime I post something, someone else has something to say...

What I asked for forthebeauty is tangible evidence or facts ~~~ u should go back and read my post. If you can show me that Christ dieing did anything to better my life, I might change my views- as all Christians seem to want to do to me. Perhaps you should practice acceptance on the side of your religious practice.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 34
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:32:50 PM
I dont have a religous practice to begin with its a spiritual. And I have seen great miracles worked, a 16 year old in my community was cured of luekeimia, with out any treatment, but prayer. As well as numerous other cancers that were never treated. My church has had a great powere of prayer, and the community knows it and even non believers will call one of our members and ask for a prayer chain to get started, and Its not us, we just pray for the lords will to be done, and it is. I as a christian am put here for Gods pleasure, and to testify to others about Jesus, to try and let them know what he done for us all, so that maybe they will accept his gift. His gift of grace. Christ dieing did do something to change ur life, u have the choice to die and ur soul go to heaven and live eternally or to die unsaved and go to hell and burn eternally. I can see that u have chosen the latter, but that is ur choice.
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 35
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:45:09 PM
Canttouchthis you said "I almost forgot...
As to Christopher Reeve... You're saying he didn't suffer needlessly because he raised awareness of spinal cord injury. What good is it to raise awareness of something that doesn't have to exist in the first place? What parent (yes, parent is analagous with God for my purpose) would let his child become paralyzed? Do you think Christopher lived a more fulfilling life because he couldn't walk?"
If we had no choice over our own lives then injury, diease, and suffering would not be present in our world. So if you want to be an animal thats fine there is no recognition of suffering in the animal kingdom..Go on live there. Heres my proof on god...We as humans recognize and some of us do our best to limit suffering.. If there was no god we wouldn't care-we wouldn't have that innate ability for empathy/love. Granted some of us have it more than others but that doesn't take away from the love that the few show. And we are growing-if you dont want to be on the band wagon you don't have to-its going to happen with or without you. There is nothing greater to me than a human who makes the Choice to make his /her world better. You say suffering doesn't have to exist-you are right it doesn't. Thing is the universe runs under certain laws. Those laws allow for some unpleasant things to exist. Its our job to limit and try to stop those things. If you want to blame someone for suffering-blame the ones who have the ability to stop itand don't. It could be you , or your neighbor, or even your parents, how about the government. God gave us hands and the brain to back them--there is nothing we are not capable of. So get off your ass, un-petrify your heart, and get out there and do something that ends suffering. Its this ability that will show you god.
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 36
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:49:49 PM
You are saying that nonbelievers go to hell. What happened before telecommunication and such, when people were unable to find out about christianity? Native americans, asians, and the like. Were they doomed to hell just because they were not so lucky to be born under a christian family? There's no need for you to tell me I'm going to go to hell, just as there's no need for me to tell you that I don't respect your inability to spell or use proper grammar.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 37
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:52:04 PM
Wow Brundle we actually agree on something lol Very well said !!!!
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 39
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/22/2004 5:46:27 PM
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosover believith in him should not parrish and have everlasting life.

Its not what I said Its what God said. I do have a need to tell ya that u will burn in Hell if u dont believe, because that is what I am here for as a christian, for Gods pleasure and to witness to others in hopes that they will see his way and accept him as lord and saviour.

U wont make me mad about my spelling and grammar, u know what I am saying so thats all that matters.
 canttouchthis
Joined: 10/11/2004
Msg: 60
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/23/2004 11:34:55 AM
I was beginning to think that there were only closed minded religious fanatics in here. Good to hear from you Shannon. Thanks for not trying to convert me to some religion.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 63
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 11:39:47 AM
Firts of all Slick this isnt a game, about who can out do who. So u think u got me? U think that u know all? U think that ur way is the only way? And before u answer any of those questions go back and read some of ur posts, and stand on the outside, and look in. What did u see? If ur so good at that as u claim, u should of saw that those posts were from a very closed minded individial. Silver that goes for u too.

The bible speaks in parables. Not one person percieves it as the next, but should respect the others views on it. The bible is the words of the lord. For what ever reasons people refuse to believe that. Thats ok with me, I am not to judge, who am I to call someone ignorant for what they believe? It is between them and the lord. I have read about people like silver and it seems that they try to break down people (like a cult) and try to get them to be on their level of thinking. That is why he is always stabbing at me, cause he sees that he will not break me down, and its a challenge to him.

In the bible there r several scriptures that let u know if u dont accept the lord in ur heart u will go to hell. There is 18 inches between heaven and hell, from u brain to u heart. The devil will try to put in ur head that there is no heaven, but whats in ur heart is what is true.

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in puple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Laz'-a-rus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was bureid;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in the torments, and seeth abraham afar off, and Laz'-a-rus in his bosom
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Laz'-a-rus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

U can read further if u like.
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 64
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 12:08:39 PM
So have I krypto and would much rather be the beggar. Thats my whole point. And that is correct to say that the meaning is none of us r above any other, were all the same, except the lord.


THE TRUTH IS WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART!!!!!!!
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 66
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 2:38:04 PM
Just because someones idea of heaven is bigger than someone elses doesn't negate either. The people here that seem to be argueing the most all seem to believe in the same god and the love that we should carry in our hearts because of that. Good is always good -bad is always bad. Wars start because none of us can agree which face god should have. Ever wonder if thats one of the pitfalls of choice that god wants us to work out on our own based on faith? If we can do that we can do anything. To choose love because of your faith that god is attached. To Shannon, Beauty, Silver, and Slick. You people are what makes it worthwhile. Shannon and her "devils advocate ways". To Beauty and Jimi your faith is unmatched. To Slick your openess and drive is humbling. Ruby I think is uncompromised in her love of free will. And to Silver- you take honor and personal knowledge to a whole 'nother height.
We have something.
Can we stop argueing yet?
 forthebeauty
Joined: 7/14/2004
Msg: 67
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 2:46:36 PM
MMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHSSSSSSSS to u brundle.

I believe what I am trying to say is that we all have our views and just because mine is not the same as urs does not mean that I am right or u r right? Is that so hard to understand?
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 68
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 2:55:44 PM
I think we are all saying that...sort of. Its just hard for some of us to know from what you say that deep down in your hearts we deseve to go to hell because god talks to all his children different.
Thats all the issue is for me.
 freemind
Joined: 10/16/2004
Msg: 69
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 4:32:05 PM
"opinionated truth" is an oxymoron. If you're truth is an opinion, then it can't be true.

substantuated proof is true. can we agree on that?
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 70
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 4:39:57 PM
We can't even fully prove we exist.......This whole world could be a figment of our imaginations and there's no way for any of us to know. There is no way for us to prove proof of truth. Its all faith in one way or the other.
 freemind
Joined: 10/16/2004
Msg: 71
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 5:14:52 PM
Neils Bhor was a Solophist too, but he didn't argue science. He was a great physist. Even if you believe that this world is a figment of you imagination, part of your imagination is true to everyones perception. Take numbers for instance. Can your number 4 be different in my perception? I don't think so. Anything else is speculation or individual perceptions which can not be considered as truth till it is substansiated.
 brundle
Joined: 6/28/2004
Msg: 72
Opinion On Truth
Posted: 10/24/2004 5:47:53 PM
But how do you know we are not perceiving a collective imagination where certain laws exist? Just because something is perceived doesn't make it real. We may think we know "4" but thats still our perception, collectively or singularily. Just because everyone else believes something to be true doesn't make it true. You may see 4 apples, but really what are you looking at? "the matrix" really highlights this.
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