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 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 2
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Seriously, is this administration crazy??


Absolutely not President Obama did not dream up the process by which he wants to deal with the economy, apparently he can read and has the ability to learn from the past,their are no guarantees that it will work again but it seems better then trying to invent a process or sitting there twiddling fingers and hoping for a miracle

We got lucky we elected a very bright man "President Obama" who loves his family and his country

Excerpts from http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm

Roosevelt inaugurated; begins "First 100 Days" of intensive legislative activity. (More)
A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.
Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress. (More)
Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority. (More)
Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act. (More)
U.S. goes off the gold standard.
Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is obsessed with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.
The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.
1934
Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission. (More)
Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade Agreement Act. (More)
The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.
Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending. (More)
1935
The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to be unconstitutional.
Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration. (More)
Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act. (More)
Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.
1936
The Supreme Court declares part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act to be unconstitutional.
In response, Congress passes the Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act. (More)
Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.
Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.
Germany becomes the second nation to recover fully from the Great Depression, through heavy deficit spending in preparation for war.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 4
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:15:24 PM

You can like Obama all you want, but don't kid yourself. Clearly he and the academics in his administration (like Christina Romer) are out of their league when dealing with the pros in the financial system.


President Obama understand the team concept and utilizes it very well, that s why he selected an economic advisory team to advice him. He showed his understanding of how to work with teams in the presidential elections

http://useconomy.about.com/od/people/tp/economic_team.htm
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 5
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:36:03 PM

OP some folks will be standing in the soup lines, still praying to the Obama with tears in thier eyes... Logic, facts, and reason are totally useless... It's like dealing with a cult...


And some people would not have an open mind if their life and the future of our country was at stake, The logic, facts and reasoning that our President took this course of action to save our economy is because history shows that it worked to pull our country out of the Great Depression.

Whats your answer more of the same policies that produced this mess or maybe just sit there and wait until the economy worked itself out? I think you would be in for a long wait, what do you think would bring our economy back? Where do you think the jobs will come from to turn this economy around? Do you think that if given more tax breaks that suddenly big business will reverse it's course and start to re-invest? And then tell me why they would come back when they can manufacture their products in countries that have an average hourly rate of 48 cents per hour and little to no environmental laws to deal with.

If President Obama is guilty of any thing it's not doing enought, I would nationalize and cap as many businesses as I possibly could, you would have night mares over the socialization policies I would pursue. With the future of our country at stake and history showing what happens every time that big business gets it's fingers into our government I would change some laws making lobbying a crime punisable with hard prison time , The wall street CEO'S and every CEO in this country gets up in the morning and puts his/her clothes on the same way I do and they should get the same vote that I get.

I took the time to read the time line "http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm" and it's obvious how we got where we are and just as obvious that President Obama is utilizing history to deal with this mess. The best chance we have is sitting in the Oval Office

Excerpts from http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 6
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:50:00 AM

I couldn't get the link you posted to work... but emulating FRD is NOT necessarily the best path to recovery...


Let me help you by posting the time line, it's okay to second guess what worked 70 years after the fact but that's what it is nothing more nothing less, this time line addresses many of the myths. President Roosevelt inherited the same economic mess that President Obama inherited. If you follow the time period before, during and after the depression the similarities are like some one had wrote a script.

We are lucky to have a President that can read and is willing to do what is required to get our great nation back on it's economic feet, if we sit idly by waiting for the economy to correct itself we are going to have a long wait


TIMELINES OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION:

This page features two timelines: the first for general events of the Roaring 20s and the Great Depression, the second for leading economic indicators.

The importance of these timelines cannot be emphasized enough. Seeing the order in which events actually occurred dispels many myths about the Great Depression. One of the greatest of these myths is that government intervention was responsible for its onset. Truly massive intervention began only under the presidency of Franklin Roosevelt in 1933, who was sworn in after the worst had already hit. Although his New Deal did not cure it, all the leading economic indicators improved on his watch.

But don't take my word for it -- here is the raw data:

TIMELINE OF GENERAL EVENTS

1920s (Decade)

During World War I, federal spending grows three times larger than tax collections. When the government cuts back spending to balance the budget in 1920, a severe recession results. However, the war economy invested heavily in the manufacturing sector, and the next decade will see an explosion of productivity... although only for certain sectors of the economy.
An average of 600 banks fail each year.
Agricultural, energy and coal mining sectors are continually depressed. Textiles, shoes, shipbuilding and railroads continually decline.
The value of farmland falls 30 to 40 percent between 1920 and 1929.
Organized labor declines throughout the decade. The United Mine Workers Union will see its membership fall from 500,000 in 1920 to 75,000 in 1928. The American Federation of Labor would fall from 5.1 million in 1920 to 3.4 million in 1929.
"Technological unemployment" enters the nation's vocabulary; as many as 200,000 workers a year are replaced by automatic or semi-automatic machinery.
Over the decade, about 1,200 mergers will swallow up more than 6,000 previously independent companies; by 1929, only 200 corporations will control over half of all American industry.
By the end of the decade, the bottom 80 percent of all income-earners will be removed from the tax rolls completely. Taxes on the rich will fall throughout the decade.
By 1929, the richest 1 percent will own 40 percent of the nation's wealth. The bottom 93 percent will have experienced a 4 percent drop in real disposable per-capita income between 1923 and 1929.
The middle class comprises only 15 to 20 percent of all Americans.
Individual worker productivity rises an astonishing 43 percent from 1919 to 1929. But the rewards are being funneled to the top: the number of people reporting half-million dollar incomes grows from 156 to 1,489 between 1920 and 1929, a phenomenal rise compared to other decades. But that is still less than 1 percent of all income-earners.
1922
The conservative Supreme Court strikes down federal child labor legislation.
1923
President Warren Harding dies in office; his administration was easily one of the most corrupt in American history. Calvin Coolidge, who is squeaky clean by comparison, becomes president. Coolidge is no less committed to laissez-faire and a non-interventionist government. He announces to the American people: "The business of America is business."
Supreme Court nullifies minimum wage for women in District of Columbia.
1924
The Ku Klux Klan reaches the height of its influence in America: by the end of the year it will claim 9 million members. It will decline drastically in 1925, however, after financial and moral scandals rock its leadership.
The stock market begins its spectacular rise. Bears little relation to the rest of the economy.
1925
The top tax rate is lowered to 25 percent - the lowest top rate in the eight decades since World War I.
Supreme Court rules that trade organizations do not violate anti-trust laws as long as some competition survives.
1928
The construction boom is over.
Farmers' share of the national income has dropped from 15 to 9 percent since 1920.
Between May 1928 and September 1929, the average prices of stocks will rise 40 percent. Trading will mushroom from 2-3 million shares per day to over 5 million. The boom is largely artificial.
1929
Herbert Hoover becomes President. Hoover is a staunch individualist but not as committed to laissez-faire ideology as Coolidge.
More than half of all Americans are living below a minimum subsistence level.
Annual per-capita income is $750; for farm people, it is only $273.
Backlog of business inventories grows three times larger than the year before. Public consumption markedly down.
Freight carloads and manufacturing fall.
Automobile sales decline by a third in the nine months before the crash.
Construction down $2 billion since 1926.
Recession begins in August, two months before the stock market crash. During this two month period, production will decline at an annual rate of 20 percent, wholesale prices at 7.5 percent, and personal income at 5 percent.
Stock market crash begins October 24. Investors call October 29 "Black Tuesday." Losses for the month will total $16 billion, an astronomical sum in those days.
Congress passes Agricultural Marketing Act to support farmers until they can get back on their feet.
1930
By February, the Federal Reserve has cut the prime interest rate from 6 to 4 percent. Expands the money supply with a major purchase of U.S. securities. However, for the next year and a half, the Fed will add very little money to the shrinking economy. (At no time will it actually pull money out of the system.) Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon announces that the Fed will stand by as the market works itself out: "Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate real estate… values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wreck from less-competent people." (More)
The Smoot-Hawley Tariff passes on June 17. With imports forming only 6 percent of the GNP, the 40 percent tariffs work out to an effective tax of only 2.4 percent per citizen. Even this is compensated for by the fact that American businesses are no longer investing in Europe, but keeping their money stateside. The consensus of modern economists is that the tariff made only a minor contribution to the Great Depression in the U.S., but a major one in Europe. (More)
The first bank panic occurs later this year; a public run on banks results in a wave of bankruptcies. Bank failures and deposit losses are responsible for the contracting money supply.
Supreme Court rules that the monopoly U.S. Steel does not violate anti-trust laws as long as competition exists, no matter how negligible.
Democrats gain in Congressional elections, but still do not have a majority.
The GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent.
1931
No major legislation is passed addressing the Depression.
A second banking panic occurs in the spring.
The GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9 percent.
1932
This and the next year are the worst years of the Great Depression. For 1932, GNP falls a record 13.4 percent; unemployment rises to 23.6 percent.
Industrial stocks have lost 80 percent of their value since 1930.
10,000 banks have failed since 1929, or 40 percent of the 1929 total.
About $2 billion in deposits have been lost since 1929.
Money supply has contracted 31 percent since 1929.
GNP has also fallen 31 percent since 1929.
Over 13 million Americans have lost their jobs since 1929.
Capital growth investments have dropped from $16.2 billion to 1/3 of one billion since 1929.
Farm prices have fallen 53 percent since 1929.
International trade has fallen by two-thirds since 1929.
The Fed makes its first major expansion of the money supply since February 1930.
Congress creates the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. (More)
Congress passes the Federal Home Loan Bank Act and the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932. (More)
Top tax rate is raised from 25 to 63 percent.
Popular opinion considers Hoover's measures too little too late. Franklin Roosevelt easily defeats Hoover in the fall election. Democrats win control of Congress.
At his Democratic presidential nomination, Roosevelt says: "I pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people."
1933
Roosevelt inaugurated; begins "First 100 Days" of intensive legislative activity. (More)
A third banking panic occurs in March. Roosevelt declares a Bank Holiday; closes financial institutions to stop a run on banks.
Alarmed by Roosevelt's plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government. The businessmen try to recruit General Smedley Butler, promising him an army of 500,000, unlimited financial backing and generous media spin control. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress. (More)
Congress authorizes creation of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Farm Credit Administration, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Federal Emergency Relief Administration, the National Recovery Administration, the Public Works Administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority. (More)
Congress passes the Emergency Banking Bill, the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, the Farm Credit Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act and the Truth-in-Securities Act. (More)
U.S. goes off the gold standard.
Roosevelt does much to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but is obsessed with a balanced budget. He later rejects Keynes' advice to begin heavy deficit spending.
The free fall of the GNP is significantly slowed; it dips only 2.1 percent this year. Unemployment rises slightly, to 24.9 percent.
1934
Congress authorizes creation of the Federal Communications Commission, the National Mediation Board and the Securities and Exchange Commission. (More)
Congress passes the Securities and Exchange Act and the Trade Agreement Act. (More)
The economy turns around: GNP rises 7.7 percent, and unemployment falls to 21.7 percent. A long road to recovery begins.
Sweden becomes the first nation to recover fully from the Great Depression. It has followed a policy of Keynesian deficit spending. (More)
1935
The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to be unconstitutional.
Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration. (More)
Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act. (More)
Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.
1936
The Supreme Court declares part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act to be unconstitutional.
In response, Congress passes the Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act. (More)
Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.
Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.
Germany becomes the second nation to recover fully from the Great Depression, through heavy deficit spending in preparation for war.
1937
The Supreme Court declares the National Labor Relations Board to be unconstitutional.
Roosevelt seeks to enlarge and therefore liberalize the Supreme Court. This attempt not only fails, but outrages the public.
Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0 percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.
1938
Congress passes the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 and the Fair Labor Standards Act. (More)
No major New Deal legislation is passed after this date, due to Roosevelt's weakened political power.
The year-long recession makes itself felt: the GNP falls 4.5 percent, and unemployment rises to 19.0 percent.
Britain becomes the third nation to recover as it begins deficit spending in preparation for war.
1939
GNP rises 7.9 percent; unemployment falls to 17.2 percent.
The United States will begin emerging from the Depression as it borrows and spends $1 billion to build its armed forces. From 1939 to 1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, U.S. manufacturing will have shot up a phenomenal 50 percent!
The Depression is ending worldwide as nations prepare for the coming hostilities.
World War II starts with Hitler's invasion of Poland.
1945
Although the war is the largest tragedy in human history, the United States emerges as the world's only economic superpower. Deficit spending has resulted in a national debt 123 percent the size of the GDP. By contrast, in 1994, the $4.7 trillion national debt will be only 70 percent of the GDP!
The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time, America will experience the greatest economic boom it has ever known.
ECONOMIC TIMELINE

The following timeline shows the order of economic events during the Great Depression. Notice the effect that deficit spending had on economic growth:

Receipts: Tax receipts as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product

Spending: Federal spending as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product

GNP: Percent change in the Gross National Product

Unemp.: Unemployment rate

Tax Federal GNP Unemp.
Year Receipts Spending Growth Rate
-------------------------------------------------
1929 -- -- -- 3.2% < Hoover era, Great Depression begins
1930 4.2% 3.4% - 9.4% 8.7
1931 3.7 4.3 - 8.5 15.9
1932 2.9 7.0 -13.4 23.6
1933 3.5 8.1 - 2.1 24.9 < FDR, New Deal begins; contraction ends March
1934 4.9 10.8 + 7.7 21.7
1935 5.3 9.3 + 8.1 20.1
1936 5.1 10.6 +14.1 16.9
1937 6.2 8.7 + 5.0 14.3 < recession begins, May
1938 7.7 7.8 - 4.5 19.0 < recession ends, June
1939 7.2 10.4 + 7.9 17.2
1940 6.9 9.9
1941 7.7 12.1
1942 10.3 24.8
1943 13.7 44.8
1944 21.7 45.3
1945 21.3 43.7
As you can see, Roosevelt began relatively modest deficit spending that arrested the slide of the economy and resulted in some astonishing growth numbers. (Roosevelt's average growth of 5.2 percent during the Great Depression is even higher than Reagan's 3.7 percent growth during his so-called "Seven Fat Years!") When 1936 saw a phenomenal record of 14 percent growth, Roosevelt eased back on the deficit spending, overly worried about balancing the budget. But this only caused the economy to slip back into a recession, as the above chart shows.

I have been unable to find reliable economic growth figures from World War II, but as a generalization it is safe to say the economy exploded, experiencing it’s greatest growth in U.S. history. Between 1940 and 1945, the GDP nearly doubled in size, from $832 billion to $1,559 billion in constant 87 dollars. And this occurred as deficit spending soared, to levels Keynes had earlier and unsuccessfully recommended to Roosevelt.

Next Section: Summary
Return to The Great Depression Homepage

Sources:

T.H. Watkins, The Great Depression: America in the 1930s (New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1993)

Kevin Phillips, Boiling Point (New York: HarperCollins, 1993)

Kevin Phillips, The Politics of Rich and Poor (New York: Random House, 1990)

The 1995 Grolier Encyclopedia (Entries: New Deal, Depression of the 30s, Roosevelt, Coolidge.)

The Encyclopedia Brittanica Online (Entries: New Deal, Great Depression.)

Donald Barlett and James Steele, America: What Went Wrong? (Kansas City: Andrews and McMeel, 1992)

Donald Barlett and James Steele, America: Who Really Pays the Taxes? (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1994)

James MacGregor Fox, Roosevelt: The Lion and the Fox (New York: Konecky and Konecky, 1956)

Elaine Schwartz, Econ 101½ (New York: Avon Books, 1995)

Peter Pugh and Chris Garratt, Introducing Keynes (Cambridge, England: Icon Books, Ltd., 1993)

Paul Krugman, Peddling Prosperity (New York: W.W. Norton and Company, 1994)

Online sources:

History lecture notes: http://www.marshall.edu/history/mccarthy/hst331/lecture/greatdep.1

Gary H. Stern (President, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis), "Achieving Economic Stability: Lessons From the Crash of 1929," 1987 Annual Report Essay, http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/pubs/ar/ar1987.html

Office of Management and Budget, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 1997, Historical Tables 1.2 and 10.1, http://www.doc.gov/BudgetFY97/histtoc.html
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 8
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:27:38 AM

Earl,
Statistics from the 1930's have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that this administration is demonstrating a lack of even a basic understanding of the effects of their policies. Let me point out a real-time classic example. The administration and Pelosi and gang recently passed legislation to "stop abuse" by credit card companies to "protect the consumers." So what happened? Every major credit card company either has or is in the process of raising rates before the new law takes effect. And you can mark this post. As a result of this new protection initial CC rates will go up and the availability of consumer credit will be restricted after the law is in effect.[/quote
Now let me ask you. In an economy where the consumer accounts for a little more than 2/3 of GDP, does it make sense to restrict the availibility of credit, if your goal is to promote recovery?


The credit card companies were practicing racketeering raising rates from less then 10% to 30% if you had one late payment, some thing had to be done to stop their abuse so they (credit card companies) responded by cutting their noses off, making 4,5,6,7,8,9,10% on their loans was not enough for these predators, this is the same thing that caused many of the mortgages to default.

Now what I think President Obama should do is to get into the small loan business and buy up these credit card accounts, maybe he could bring the rates back down. I am sure that these predators would rethink their racketeering ways when they saw their customer base eroding, hey wait they can always tap into the Chinese credit card customer base at 48 cents per hour average wage the credit card companies could make a killing.

Or maybe make it so that the credit card companies could not write off bad debt, there are a lot of ways to deal with these predators, with out letting them bust the middle class.

The only problem I see is that President Obama has to get this bills passed and that means compromise, we should give him emergency powers to do what ever he thinks needs to be done without having to deal with the senate and congress that are both in the pockets of big business.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 10
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:14:58 AM
[This is the kind of talk that just scares the hell out of me... Yea - let's just SHRED the constitution? Yea - let's just make Obama our dictator? Are you KIDDING ME???

First you have no respect for the man who was elected to lead our country if you did you would refer to him as president Obama, so naturally the thought of him having emergency power to do what is required to get our country out of this mess would be the last thing you would consider, you would just rather sit there and let big business finish what they started

If you looked at history you might find that great nations like ours lost their place in the world because of economics so our economy is to me more important that removing Saddam was and yet as our economy sunk deeper in deeper we continued to fund a war that was sucking the economy out of our nation and transferring it to nations that had no real love for us like China

Kidding not in the least I think the economy of our country would justify giving President Obama the latitude to do what ever was needed to correct it
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 11
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/3/2009 11:19:44 AM

Kidding not in the least I think the economy of our country would justify giving President Obama the latitude to do what ever was needed to correct it


Giving Obama absolute power to do whatever he wanted would be like handing an 8 year kid the keys to Lamborgini Diablo and telling him to take a spin.





No, it would be even more idiotic.


Earl, sorry man, you have way too much faith in this guy. Nothing he has done so far has deemed him worthy of this country's blind trust.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 12
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:27:47 AM

Looks like Warren Buffet isn't the only Obama supporter who is having reservations:


Warren Buffet ? Wall Street tycon, another man who made his fortune by manipulating the value of stock

Colin Powell a much better canidade then what Sara Palin would or could ever be maybe he's thinking about running for president?

Of course who ever the republician run in 2012 will be defeated by President Obama
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 13
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 2:50:17 AM

Obama is quickly becoming the worst president ever. Since he has not been president long, maybe he will change and get better. I doubt it though.


He could grow wings and walk on water and you would still feel the same way about him
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 14
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 4:26:45 AM
If you read some of that long bit of history that was copied and pasted, you will see that the military build up brought us out of the depression. Not the government actions to control everything.


Exactly.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 15
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:29:40 AM

If you read some of that long bit of history that was copied and pasted, you will see that the military build up brought us out of the depression. Not the government actions to control everything.


Exactly.


I call the syndrome you have selective reading, selective reading is a serious ailment that only allows your vision to focus on what you want to see, President Roosevelt took office in 1933 and the economy steadily improved under his economic recovery plan, now look hard and you will see that two countries who poured more money "deficit spending" were able to recover faster then we did. I hope that President Obama is able to convince the senate and congress that we need to keep pouring money into our economy to put out the fires of this recession.

If our countries big businesses had reinvested some of their profits back into their businesses we would be in much better shape, since they choose not to it's a good thing we have President Obama to over see the recovery
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 16
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:53:51 AM

Unlike you, I don't think obama can walk on water. He could do a few things to be a better president though.



1. If he would quick apologizing to everyone in the world for the U.S.


OMG so he admitted that we like many other countries had made some mistakes, I know he should have been more like Ex President Bush and threatened to run over any country that did not agree with us


2. Maybe stop spending money we don't have on things we don't need.

If you read the time line I provided you will see that President Roosevelt engineered our economic recovery by creating work and spending money, had he spent more money that we did not have "deficit spending" we may have recovered quicker


3. Stop increasing taxes.


Bully for you making over 250,00 a year he is just taxing those who have been sucking the system dry through ex President Reagans trickle down economic failure


4. Quit nationalizing business.

He needs to step in a lot sooner to take over businesses that are insolvent or pursuing policies that are draining our economy let me give you an example, he should cap gasoline taxes to prevent the oil companies from stopping the recovery by raising the price of gas, he should buy up the credit card companies that are forcing people into bankrupcy with their racketeering percentage rates,

I could go on and on but it would just fall on deaf ears, I think our country and our way of life is worth preserving, if we were being attacked by a foreign country we would all grab on and pull at the rope, but since we are being attacked internally by big business we don't seem to recognize how bad the economy of our country is, some think just sit there and when the vultures are done picking at the economic bones of our economy we will in some miraculous way recover

5.
Stop promoting abortion.


Because he beilieves that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her body does not equate to promoting abortion, some fanatics think that the use of contraceptives is abortion, to me it's as easy as, you make the decisions about abortion that you can live with and quit acting like communist by dictating to others how they should deal with their bodies
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 17
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History
Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 12:05:55 PM

We're not being attacked by big business... We're being attacked by socialist LOOTERS who now have carte balance to legally STEAL other people's money! The federal reserve estimates that there is almost 10 TRILLION dollars sitting in savings and money market accounts. Know why? Because investors saw Obama coming a mile away and pulled thier money out of the market! Why? Because they have NO faith in him or his socialist policies! Obama is not the CURE, he is the CAUSE!


"President" Obama inherited this economic disaster he did not create it, and just like the great "President" Roosevelt he is working to save our economy. Your reference to carte blanch is absolutely ridiculous, I wish he did have and did not have to deal with the senate and congress who are still tentacles of big business. Follow the trail it's not that hard to see what happened to get us here and follow the time line I provided and then maybe you will see what "President" Obama is doing, but seriously you seem so stuck so entrenched in your hatred for "President" Obama and the democratic party that nothing he does will make a bit of difference to you
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 18
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 1:26:51 PM
President Roosevelt took office in 1933 and the economy steadily improved under his economic recovery plan


Oh really?

In the Great Depression, Roosevelt tried deficit spending, but he was too timid. Then he stopped in 1937 and the economy nose-dived. It took the humongous deficits of WWII to pull us out of the Great Depression. Those deficits blasted the economy from depression into overdrive.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 19
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 1:42:18 PM

Oh really?


Thank you for this link, I actually took the time to read it, President Roosevelt tried to maintain a balanced budget which slowed down tthe recovery but it had improved immensely under his economic policies and since the war started we can not accurately predict what would have happened if the war had not started

from the link you supplied http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


We are now headed into the worst slump since 1938, and you better hope Obama can fix it because that was not a pretty time. Unfortunately, as in the Great Depression, the extreme conservatives would rather trash the country than have our government succeed. They are much worse than Bush.
The main thing to remember is that, with consumer spending going down, business is going to lay people off—not hire them. You can't blame business for this. It's just a vicious cycle the economy gets into. Any you can't blame consumers for not spending in bad times. The only way out of this, if we don't want to wait 10 or 20 years, is for the government to spend, pay unemployment insurance, or give tax breaks to people who will spend (not the rich). Of course there's also the problem of the banks. Obama should stop saving the bankers, and just take over the bad banks. Once they're working they can be sold back to the private sector.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 20
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/5/2009 1:58:06 PM

What Ended the Great Depression of 1929?:

In 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected President based on his promises to create Federal Government programs to end the Great Depression. Within 100 days the “New Deal” was signed into law. This created 42 new agencies designed to create jobs, allow unionization, and provide unemployment insurance. Many of these programs, such as Social Security, the SEC, and FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) are still here today, helping to safeguard the economy.

However, the extent of the Great Depression was so great that government programs alone could not end it. Unemployment remained in the double-digits until 1941, when the U.S. entry into World War II created defense-related jobs.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdomesticproduct/p/1929_Depression.htm




President Roosevelt tried to maintain a balanced budget which slowed down tthe recovery but it had improved immensely under his economic policies and since the war started we can not accurately predict what would have happened if the war had not started.


Now by setting up these programs he may have insured a better safeguard from future depressions, but at the time no amount of new programs could have gotten us out of the depression. The unemployment rates up until 1941 were still in double digit figures. Matter of fact they stayed steady that way until we entered into WWII which was the single biggest contributing factor that drastically dropped unemployment rates which helped greatly get us out of the depression.



1932 23.6%
1934 21.7%
1936 16.9 %
1938 19.0 %
1940 14.6 %
1942 4.7%
1944 1.2%
1946 3.9 %
1948 3.8 %


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 22
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:14:15 AM

Now by setting up these programs he may have insured a better safeguard from future depressions, but at the time no amount of new programs could have gotten us out of the depression. The unemployment rates up until 1941 were still in double digit figures. Matter of fact they stayed steady that way until we entered into WWII which was the single biggest contributing factor that drastically dropped unemployment rates which helped greatly get us out of the depression.


The actions that President Roosevelt took started our country back on the road to recovery had he not been so concerned about maintaining a balanced budget we would have recovered quicker then we did, President Obama has followed the blue print layed out by President Roosevelt and has not worried so much about maintaining a balanced budget we will come out of this economic mess without the need of starting world war 3
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 23
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:50:30 AM
But the fact remains that WWII had a great deal do to with getting the U.S. out of depression. Sure he helped put programs inplace to help safeguard against future depressions, but his new safeguards that he put in place back in the 1930's did little to nothing at all to get the U.S. out of the depression back then, because like the article clearly points out, the depression was soo bad that no amout of new programs could have pulled the depression out of where it was. The only thing that could was a drastic overhaul of emplyoment which is why WWII played such a huge role in getting the U.S. out of depression.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 24
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:58:33 AM

But the fact remains that WWII had a great deal do to with getting the U.S. out of depression. Sure he helped put programs inplace to help safeguard against future depressions, but his new safeguards that he put in place back in the 1930's did little to nothing at all to get the U.S. out of the depression back then, because like the article clearly points out, the depression was soo bad that no amout of new programs could have pulled the depression out of where it was. The only thing that could was a drastic overhaul of emplyoment which is why WWII played such a huge role in getting the U.S. out of depression.


I call it selectavision which means you see only what you want too, now we are all probably a little guilty of selectavision let me give you an example the unemployment rate had dropped from over 23% to 14.3 prior to the war so saying that nothing but the war played a key role in ending the depression is selectavision

The war was not the reason that the depression ended the reason was the employment that the war created, war is not the only option available to create jobs, we can spend money that creates jobs without going to war, in fact we can create jobs that will continue to employ people. Infrastructure is one area that we can get going pretty quickly that will create unemployment opportunities that will still be there when the infrastructure is completed, we must also send a strong message to big business that we will no longer tolerate their shipping our work overseas if that means setting up competing companies SO BE IT
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 25
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 12:04:48 PM

You cannot SPEND your way out of a recession, or BORROW your way out of debt. I don't know why this is SO hard for some people to understand... The road we're on could literally TANK our entire nation!


You don't read or you just refuse to understand, the facts are, in the Great depression President Roosevelt was spending to get our economy back on track from 1934 until 1941 the unemployment rate went from 23% to 14%. World war two started and we begged borrowed and spent like crazy to fuel the war machine that ended the depression, job creation fuels the economy whether it's infrastructure or war that's creating jobs they are still jobs. Sitting and waiting for this economy to right itself would have been the wrong thing to do we may never have recovered.

You keep using sourses that are based on nothing more then conjecture, speculation try using history and maybe you will see the light before it goes out
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 26
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 12:39:47 PM
The war was not the reason that the depression ended the reason was the employment that the war created, war is not the only option available to create jobs


Thus WWII had a huge factor in getting U.S. out of depression due to the fact of the enormous "jobs" that it created. Thank you for reiterating my point.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 27
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:55:43 PM

Thus WWII had a huge factor in getting U.S. out of depression due to the fact of the enormous "jobs" that it created. Thank you for reiterating my point.


More of your selectavision, I said jobs whether they were created through war or infrastructure ended the depression. Jobs whether created by a war or infrastructure mean the spending of tax dollars, infrastructure jobs mean we do not have to wait on big business to revive our economy.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 28
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:24:04 PM
If you want to continue to believe that then go right ahead even through I have thrown fact after fact, that clearly shows that WWII had a huge effect on the depression due to the overhaul in employment opportunities. The percentage numbers don't lie.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 29
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:36:29 PM

Just continue to deny it even through I have thrown fact after fact, that clearly shows that WWII had a huge effect on the depression due to the overhaul in employment opportunities. The percentage numbers don't lie.


Since it is now clear that you have lost your argument you now do the only think left you misrepresent the statements I have made, to debate with you is a waste of time, your focus is not on what will work your focus is on discrediting any thing that this administration comes out in support of.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 30
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Seriously, is this administration crazy??
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:44:59 PM
LOL I’ve lost my argument? What have you provided in your argument? Nothing. I have shown you fact after fact that clearly shows the enormous effect of what WWII did for job creation that greatly had a huge effect on the depression. You on the other hand comeback and say oh that's selective with nothing to backup your claim to dispute that. I on the other hand have shown not 1 , not 2 but 3 sites that have clearly shown that WWII had a huge effect on the depression due to the overhaul of job creations. Just keep plugging your ears, which clearly shows me you lost this debate a while back when you couldn’t provide anything to counter those solid claims from the links I provided.
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