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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 7iron
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 1
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal AliensPage 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
The United States Oath of Allegiance (officially referred to as the "Oath of Allegiance," 8 C.F.R. Part 337 (2008)) is an oath that must be taken by all immigrants who wish to become United States citizens. The first officially recorded Oaths of Allegiance were made on May 30th, 1778 at Valley Forge, during the Revolutionary War.
The current oath is as follows:
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[1]
8 C.F.R. 337.1 provides that the phrase "so help me God" is optional and that the words ‘on oath’ can be substituted with ‘and solemnly affirm’. Also, if the prospective citizen can prove such commitments are in violation with his or her religion, the lines "that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law" are sometimes omitted.
The Oath of Citizenship is not a federal law. Technically, any oath is legal, as long as it meets the "five principles" mandated by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1953. These principles are:
• allegiance to the United States Constitution,
• renunciation of allegiance to any foreign country to which the immigrant has had previous allegiances to
• defense of the Constitution against enemies "foreign and domestic"
• promise to serve in the United States Armed Forces when required by law (either combat or non-combat)
• promise to perform civilian duties of "national importance" when required by law

There were ceremonies across the nation this past July 4th where many people received their naturalized citizenship of the United States and I began to wonder if the illegal aliens receiving amnesty, which is currently being pushed by the POTUS and congress, will have to take this oath or be allowed to shortcut this requirement like they are being allowed to shortcut the many other requirements of becoming citizens of the United States. Also, there is an additional requirement:

The U.S. Naturalization Test
English and Civics Requirements
To be eligible for naturalization, you must be able to read, write, and speak basic English. You must also have a basic knowledge of U.S. history and government (also known as “civics”).
During your interview, a USCIS officer will test your ability to read, write, and speak English and your knowledge of civics. An officer will ask you to read up to three sentences in English and write up to three dictated sentences in English. The officer will test you in civics through an oral exam of up to ten questions. Your ability to speak English is determined during your interview on the Application for Naturalization, Form N-400.

Will congress drop these requirements? Will the illegal aliens willfully take this oath requiring the renunciation of allegiance to their home country? Please share your opinions.
 no_excuses_please
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 2
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:11:05 AM
Illegal aliens that are willing to either serve jail time or pay fines for their illegal activities in being in this country (and not for unrelated crimes) should be allowed to stay.
All the rest should be deported when/if the are located.

There are requirements for legal immigration to this country. If you choose to forego those laws, then you are subject to the penalties for doing as such.
 CEO of Hoagie Inc.
Joined: 7/30/2007
Msg: 3
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:31:47 AM
This is all just a huge slap in the face to the millions of people that actually entered this country legally. They took the necessary steps to do it the right way. Essentially what is happening is the Constitution that is brought up so much isn't worth the paper it was written on. Nor any of the subsequent laws dealing with naturalization. To be in this country you should speak the language, write the language and understand the language. I shouldn't have to turn a box around several times or flip through my instruction manual to find the English directions. I should not have to press one for English. Illegals are just that and should be deported accordingly. If caught entering for a second time illegally they should be shot on sight. (Let the bashing begin). This is how I view things like it or not.
 7iron
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 4
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:50:16 AM
cubanguy, I am familiar with immigration laws. I am also aware that the majority of U.S. citizens, including myself, are against amnesty which raises the question which is why our politicians are so hell-bent on giving these people amnesty? IMO it's all about votes and the sooner the folks in Washington, DC can enable illegals to become voters the better as far as they're concerned. My question is, to what extremes will our politicians go to accomplish this, and ,if given the ultimatum, will the illegals renounce their current citizenship?
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 5
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 11:50:32 AM
We need to deport, deport, deport. Legal immigrants should be immigrants with skills and the ability to help improve the American way of life. Not leach off the welfare system. English needs to be our national language. If they don't want to learn it they can stay in thier home country where they do not have to. And no one should gain any form of citezenship without swearing complete and total allegeince to the USA.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 6
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:12:15 PM

I am familiar with immigration laws


just doesn't know the difference between Amnesty and Naturalization
 7iron
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 7
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:42:27 PM
SAguy when I created this thread I knew that I would get a childish response from you.
Some stupid remark without substance and low and behold you came through. Thanks for living up to my expectations of you.
 Got Trance
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 8
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:53:08 PM
Damn illegal aliens.
Deport them all.
Report an illegal alien and the company that hired them.

http://www.wehirealiens.com

Sheriff Joe
 thrums
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:59:27 PM

Regarding renouncing their current citizenship, is not requiered at the present from anyone. I see no reason of change for the future.


Not quite true, it depends on the country of origin. Some countries do not allow their citizens to hold duel- citizenship, therefor on becoming a US citizen they must renounce their citizenship of origin. There is also an advantage to duel-citizenship, it gives the authorities somewhere to deport an undesirable to!

OP:
I am against any amnesty for illegals having come here the legal way.

Lots of forms were filled out, justifications submitted to obtain a work visa(a US company hiring a foreign worker must show that he is filling a post where no American worker is available).

Permanent Resident(Green Card) - More forms, immigration lawyers(company paid!), medical exam, fingerprinting, background checks, etc.

Naturalization - more forms, more fingerprinting, more background checks, interview, etc. I was lucky that the Atlanta office holding the interview was holding a ceremony later that day so I walked in a UK citizen in the morning and left a US citizen in the afternoon.
Technically I am still a UK citizen and could hold a UK passport but that would be pointless, if I left the US using my US passport and tried to enter the UK using a UK passport(to speed up immigration checks!) US immigration officers would have words to say on my return(as in up to my neck in the brown smelly stuff!). My UK passport was surrendered to the local Consulate office and is now buried somewhere in the UK embassy in Washington waiting to expire.
 thrums
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:10:53 PM

i think America has cheated us by not letting forgien languages flurish. in most european countries, their peoples do know more than one lanuage.


True most Europeans know a second language but it is usually English. One of the reasons people in the UK don't learn a second language is 'which one'? Learn French then a job opportunity comes up in Germany, learn German then a job opportunity comes up in Italy, etc, etc. Brits who go to work in another European country usually wait to see which country then learn the language.


AND languages are FUN.


Not when you are trying to learn French in 1960s High School by memorization!!!!
 7iron
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 11
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 4:58:02 PM
Hoyer Says Obama, Congressional Leaders United in Push for ‘Pathway to Citizenship’ for Illegal Aliens—Wants Action as Early as This Fall
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
By Monica Gabriel, Christopher Neefus and Marie Magleby




House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)(CNSNews.com) - House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D.-Md.) said at his weekly press briefing yesterday that President Obama and the Democratic leadership in both the House and Senate are united behind the cause of enacting immigration reform legislation that will provide illegal aliens with a pathway to citizenship and that he hopes to move forward with legislation as early as this fall.

Hoyer told CNSNews.com that he supports the position taken last week by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) that Congress should push a comprehensive immigration reform package that includes not only a pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens—amnesty, as it is described by critics—but also a new guest worker program for foreign workers.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 12
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:28:14 PM

Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens





Naturalization is the just end result of legally following the path to citizenship in the United States.

There is absolutely no logical rationalization to justify granting amnesty to the criminal illegal aliens.





immigration reform package that includes not only a pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens—amnesty, as it is described by critics—but also a new guest worker


 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 13
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 9:14:16 AM
How can anyone argue that it is logical or proper to reward criminal behavior


There is a provision in the Constitution, article II, sec.2, that gives the President the right to Pardon ones actions without rewarding ones past crimes. Amensty does the same, it forgives past crimes...all crimes commited to get here and live here ilegally.


....................................................

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From Lexicon...


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.............................


 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 14
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 9:56:59 AM
1.Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 1986: A blanket amnesty for some 2.8 million illegal aliens.

2.Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.

3.Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.

4.Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America.

5.Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.

6.Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens.

7.LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens

8.The are currently several bills in the United States Congress that could possibly create an 8th Amnesty.

...................................................................


In this case amnesty would reward the crime. American citizenship is arguably one of the greatest rewards an individual can receive. To give this to criminals that have entered the country illegally and have broken Federal law and most likely committed felonies by forging documentation would in itself be criminal.


I did answer you, amnesty forgives/pardons all crimes commited by an ilegal to come here and live here...
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 15
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:59:23 AM
How can a piece of paper make any difference as to what nationality you are? Perhaps citizenship should be extended to anyone willing to pay taxes!
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 16
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 11:30:05 AM

Using an act that completely failed to meet its intended goal to support your argument is a failure on your part. Again, while it did grant amnesty the rationale behind the act failed. In no way did it succeed in stemming rampant illegal immigration.


Somewhere You get the idea my argueing for amnesty...I have no dog in that fight, im just either answering your questions or pointing out flaws in your arguement.

its your contention that the '86 signed by Reagan failed, if it was a failure, then why? because Reagan and future President and Congresses fail to implement the provissions of the 86 act.

so to blame the immagrant is kinda silly, since they had no power to inact legislation to have employers check documentation or man the border. Put the blame where it belongs.

Reagan, Bush and Bush all had chances to fix immagration, so if they failed, it not my failure.

Dont aruge me, I have no power, decide amonst yourselves how to solve Your Problem..

Because I dont have a problem with America...I dont think that 1 millon or 20 million, or 100 million new immagrants could change that...that which is already on the march...on the move.

Im sure there were so many folks that feared making slaves American Citizens...Fearing that the Country would cease to exsist...It did cesase to exist, we left the shame of one Human Being owning Another behind us...America is on the march...
 thrums
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:43:52 PM

Speaking of "not quite right"... your supposed advantage to duel citizenship cracks me up.


It was meant to be funny, next time I'll use the appropriate smiley.


Citizens of the US aren't deported, Einstein! That is one of the advantages of citizenship.


There are two levels if citizenship, someone born in the US is automatically a citizen and cannot be deported. This is why pregnant women try to cross the border to have the child on US soil knowing the authorities would never separate mother and child.
Naturalization is something given by the authorities, INS, and can be taken away as the result of criminal activity among other things. Once citizenship is removed that person can then be deported to their country of origin or whoever will take them.
The UK government clearly states on their web site that if a duel-citizen(i.e. UK to US) commits a crime in the other country they will not help.
 thrums
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:07:07 PM

My ex-neighbor is from Germany. He has been in this country for over 40 years and he has his greencard. People who have greencards need to either be required to become citizens after a period or time or return to their countries of origin. .


There was talk a couple of years ago about the INS limiting the number of times you could renew your Green Card before you had to either leave or apply for citizenship, I don't know if they did anything or not.


Being in this country for over 40 years and not being a citizen is insane


It's not really insane, it can take several years to get the Green Card and then you must wait 5 years before applying for citizenship(actually 4 years and 9 months as you can start the process 90 days early). I arrived here in Nov. 1997 and got my citizenship Dec 2005, 8 years later. That was fast, my company started the Green Card process within a couple of months of my arrival and I started the citizenship process as soon as I could. In fact I started the paperwork early so I could submit it at the first opportunity.

Some people are quite happy to remain a Resident Alien, the major difference between that and citizenship is that a citizen can vote and hold a US passport. In my case citizenship was important because I am committed to living here and wish to vote(and have done on every occasion since). I work in the defense industry so citizenship is required to enter certain defense contractor facilities or military bases, it also allows me to obtain a security clearance which means I can work on more projects.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 19
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:55:21 PM
some how your far left, Democratic mind forgot about the eight years of the Clinton administration
..............................
why would I add the Clintons or Obama, they didnt run on immagration reform?
.........
...........

I never said mexican immagration is just like the slaves, I said that folk were upset the US wanted to add slaves as citizens...just like all the folk the think that amnestry of ilegals will ruin America.

..........
.........
And Why should I leave My Country?...I love MY Country.
You're the one that wants to cut-and-run...You're like that Palin woman...things get tough, Quit.
............
...........

An for the guy that believes a Naturalized Cititens can be deported, After naturalization a citizen can be deported for serious offenses Like treason or terroriam, till two years of Naturalization, after two years of Naturalization, any offence is prosecuted like a regular citizen.
 johninsd
Joined: 3/2/2009
Msg: 20
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:37:19 PM
Send them all home.

There is a process to become a naturalized citizen of the United States. It might not be perfect, but tens of thousands of people go through it every year to proudly earn US citizenship.

Why we would want to hand that precious gift to millions of illiterate peasants from a Third World country who are going to be a net drain on our society is completely beyond me.

Most other countries worth a hoot in the world require potential emigrants to be able to support themselves and/or to have a needed skill that will enable them to be a net contributor to society. We should do no less. We have far too many drones being born on American soil to want to import more.
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 21
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/16/2012 1:50:58 AM
SAguy when I created this thread I knew that I would get a childish response from you.
Some stupid remark without substance and low and behold you came through. Thanks for living up to my expectations of you. - 7iron


I agree, 7iron. Unfortunately on this site stupid remarks and childish responses are commonplace. Anyone who dares to lift his head from the global trough of sheeple-thought is attacked and belittled. It is becoming the norm.

We need to ask why Barack Hussein Obama wants illegal immigrants to be granted anything but a one-way third-class ticket back to where they came from. (Now this is where the stupid remarks and the childish responses arise.) There is a global agenda to destroy not only the United States of America, but all Western nations. The plan is to open the gates to flood these countries in order to destroy sovereignty and nationality. It is not only occurring in the USA; it is occurring in Britain, too, with the unstoppable influx of illegal aliens from North Africa and eastern Europe. It is also happening here, Down Under, with 'boat people' arriving on our shores every other day from south-east Asia, boatloads of illegals who have no allegiance to this country and whose sole objective is to be given citizenship by whatever means. Usually the United Nations, that great, Communist-inspired monster in New York, sees to it that anyone 'objecting' to these illegal aliens is dealt a blow. We see clear evidence of this alien bias in the newspapers every day.

Here in New Zealand, a country where crime is spiralling out of control, where rape is the national pastime, where criminals laugh in the face of decent, law-abiding citizens, we have more and more camps for these illegal aliens - places where they can be housed, fed and looked after while their 'cases' are taken before the courts and paid through taxpayer-funded Legal Aid. The ordinary New Zealander is grilled and 'means tested' if he wants Legal Aid, but the Boat People are granted Legal Aid as a matter of course. It is only right.

The ultimate objective behind this agenda is to remove the nations' sovereignty, to rein in any 'rogue' states, like Syria and Iraq and Iran - indeed, any independent country who does not toe the United Nations' line. Note the fall of the Arab states. I predicted two years ago that Syria would be an imminent target for the bully boys at the UN and that the CIA would, as usual, play a major role in the downfall of that country. Any nation that tries to act independently is deemed a 'rogue state.' What is most frightening is the apathy of the sheeple. We wring our hands and shake our collective heads. We watch nations being destroyed with astonishing frequency. We increasingly see young men shooting innocent civilians in movie theatres and restaurants, and lately police officers. It is becoming commonplace. Has anyone ever asked why this is happening? It is not simply because there are more guns available or that young men have more time on their hands. There is an agenda behind this carnage.

Alas, this writer has more respect for himself than to throw pearls, as they say. If you want to find out why this is happening, if you want to know why America, once the greatest nation on earth, is being systematically destroyed, you need to read books written by authors in the know. Here are a handful of such authors. The rest is up to you:

David Icke, Dr Henry Makow, PhD, Dr Jerome Corsi, Patrick West, and William F Jasper. There are others definitely worth reading. The authors I have cited are just a selection.

When Barack Hussein Obama said: "It is the right thing to do," meaning to allow illegals to be given American citizenship and all the rights that go with it, he did not mean 'the right thing to do' as far as the average American is concerned: he meant the right thing to do in order to assist the flourishing of the New World Order. Obama is merely one of the servants of this approaching World Government. Tony Blair is another.

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from people’s minds their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, patriotism and religion." — G Brock Chisholm [Psychiatrist & co-founder of The World Federation of Mental Health]

Regards
Peter
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 22
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History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/16/2012 4:11:59 AM
^^^You appear to have been misled by whatever source told you that the Obama administration wanted any of the ridiculous things you claim here.

What was that source?

I recall in particular, a fairly recent bit of nonsense (all part of the insane lying fest going on over the coming election)in which someone who wanted everyone to vote anti-Obama, claimed something like what you are saying. It was instantly and completely refuted by non-aligned third party fact checkers.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/16/2012 9:13:45 AM
WOW...just been called out on a three y.o. post.

Well Peter, I read your rant on new world order and dont see as it has much to do with the topic or what Ive posted. Even three years later, the OPs misunderstanding of amnesty and Naturalization still holds firm.

Im not familiar with the immigration processes across the globe, but if you have any questions on US immigration policy, I would be happy to school you.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 24
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History
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/16/2012 10:24:48 AM
This administration's immigration policy is not to enforce the laws Congress enacted to regulate immigration, while it sues states that are being ruined by that policy for daring to try to enforce those laws. Mr. Obama sees those millions of illegal aliens as future Democrats whose votes can be bought with the promise of a free ride on the federal gravy train.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 25
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/16/2012 12:03:18 PM
It's as if we are in the Olympic games, and 99 nations play by their rules, and WE, America, plays by a stricter set of rules. How nice for them, how bad for us.
This "debate" needs an ending.
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