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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > How do you know that you know?      Home login  
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 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 7
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How do you know that you know?Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I used to use what I called "the ring to truth". I used to find that if something was true, then many different areas of life would say the same thing, each from their angle, and that if something was false, then one angle or argument would point to it being true, but lots of other angles and arguments would contradict it.

But I like your idea about feeling. It feels right to me. I don't exactly know why, but it adds up.
 CerebralRomantic
Joined: 3/2/2009
Msg: 8
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:01:20 PM
Hmm,


If it develops peace, it is insight. Otherwise it isn't. In other words, you measure insight by its results in terms of how much peace it gives you.


Would that mean that heroin is insight for a drug addict? This would totally derail the war on drugs brain frying campain if we were to somehow legitimize the whole "mind expansion," belief that people have in drugs.

Correct from incorrect insight is based on if it does or does not ultimately pan out to be supported by external and controlled science.

If you have insight that the world is a flat pancake then it is incorrect, because the world is a sphereoid.

If your insight tells you that you are being cheated in a game of cards and later an ace falls out of your opponents sleeve then your insight was correct.

No other way to know.
 JohnEDeep
Joined: 7/9/2007
Msg: 10
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/15/2009 7:09:04 PM

The fact that otherwise I would feel unable to move in any direction. Lack of insight paralyses one and feels nothing but a peaceful experience on the pure bodily level. When I am peaceful, my body and my mind move freely....this led me to believe that insight is connected to peace, peace to good feelings, good bodily feelings to movement, movement to life. It is experiential for me.

Well said, Nina...I concur.

Doesn't really matter what you call it, but that peaceful, easy feeling is electrifying to me. I call that my 'groove'. When I decide on the right actions, it's effortless to follow through.

Or rather, it's like 'catching a wave' of possibilities...you CHOOSE whether to 'hang 10' on the crest, or 'wipeout' in the trough. Choose wisely, my friends.

Even a wipeout can turn out to be a 'right' move, if the experience inspires further insights.

Insights alone, however, are useless without the actions to make 'em real.

Take action.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 11
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/15/2009 8:17:08 PM

How do you distinguish correct insight from incorrect insight? ( Philosophical quest).

Hindsight. Anything else is a crapshoot.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 12
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/15/2009 8:39:48 PM
The distinction between the two would be found by their accuracy after the results roll in.
 percussio
Joined: 3/16/2008
Msg: 14
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:55:26 PM
Well why does insight have to be peaceful or wise for that matter ?

We've all been through tumultuous experiences and gained insight from them afterwards. Many people turn to art for insight and it is often said that "great art derives from great pain".

I think the word insight itself may be at fault here because truly, what is insight ? An experience, an epiphany of sorts ?

I think Eckhart Tolle would interest many on this particular post. Eckhart Tolle - The Flowering of Human Consciousness. You can find it free on Google Video.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 15
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/16/2009 2:41:58 AM
I'm inclined to think in terms of intent and energy, more with regard to action than wisdom, though I would say wise actions are actions of compassion and generosity and unwise actions are actions of antipathy and selfishness. I suppose you could call it a metaphysical view of morality and justice.

It has been my experience that acts of selfless giving yield unexpected and pleasant "returns" far in excess of the acts themselves. Apathy and inaction, as expected do nothing for (or to) anyone; acts of malevolence & selfishness deplete the source (the "self") of energy, so in that sense, they can cost you far in excess of the negative value realized in harming others.

Another way of putting it might be that on some sort of level, we "sell" our goodness and "buy" our evil, without any knowledge of the transaction or the currency of exchange. Either way, it appears that much more currency is involved in the transactions than we would expect to be able to call it "fair exchange".

I guess you could call this my "cast your bread" hypothesis. It appears to be based on the intent of an action and not on the action itself, though the action is required for such transactions to occur. If the intent is selfish (buying your way to heaven?), a giving act may cost you; if the intent is selfless (Robin Hood?), a "taking" act won't cost you much, if anything at all.

How do I know this?... experiencing it. So I would say we know what we experience and experience what we know, though the odd cold beer helps to clarify things...
 kpooks
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 16
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/16/2009 7:07:09 AM
I think, therefore that thought is something I know to be true...FOR ME.
 chrono1985
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 21
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:39:17 PM
That's something I often thought about when I reach conclusions. Usually I stick with it works but might be horribly flawed so I'll just go with it and modify as I go along.

You can get caught in some serious circular thinking when you try to prove something is correct, even if it really is correct, because it's all just a matter of perception of a reality that is constantly changing and remolding itself in abstract shapes.

My favorite phrase above all other phrases I've ever heard is: "I don't know".
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 22
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:47:52 PM
How do you distinguish correct insight from incorrect insight?

Really? It's straightforward. You try to falsify what you believe to be correct. If you succeed, you were wrong. If you don't succeed, it's indistinguishable from any other insight that leads to the same conclusions. Look up Karl Popper.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 23
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 2:52:57 AM
The OP's query has its basis in Buddhist philosophy and is anything but straight forward.

The basis of the question is irrelevant. There was nothing profound about that question.
 no_excuses_please
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 25
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 6:30:58 AM
OP...technically almost any "insight" that you experience would merely YOUR perception of it.
So would there be any "correct" or "incorrect" insights?
Or even insights at all?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 26
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 7:12:38 AM
RE Msg: 9 by CerebralRomantic:

If it develops peace, it is insight. Otherwise it isn't. In other words, you measure insight by its results in terms of how much peace it gives you.
Would that mean that heroin is insight for a drug addict? This would totally derail the war on drugs brain frying campain if we were to somehow legitimize the whole "mind expansion," belief that people have in drugs.
Heroin gives peace and euphoria for a small time, but gives intense pain and lack of peace for the majority of the time. Thus, heroin gives very little insight, for it gives very little peace, and much pain.

However, moderate and self-controlled use of non-addictive drugs does provide peace, since it gives peace for a long time, and very few times when it does not. Thus, it might provide much insight. Might even be why so many university lecturers find that when they smoke dope and discuss their ideas with each other, that they get great insight into their fields of study.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 30
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 8:50:13 PM
Our brain only knows what the senses tell it and what can be derived from that information. Since our senses are not provably reliable, we can't "know" what they tell us because we can't be certain of the accuracy of the information. The best we can do is draw conclusions that are consistent with the data the brain receives and call it "reality".

If we consider that reality may not be real (in the sense that we usually think of reality as the way things "really" are), but only an interpretation of our sensual experiences, we seem to be able to know things, but I would point out once again that what we know is based not necessarily on how things really are, but on an interpretation of them.

I guess what I'm trying to say (poorly and in a rambling, incoherent way) is that we can know what we perceive and derive from perception and that these perceptions and derivations construct a picture that is probably reality, but that we can't prove it and therefore can't "know" with certainty that it is.

It would seem then, that the only things we can truly know are the things that definitely aren't true (the things that have been falsified). In that sense, I agree with Popper, who was IMHO a much more brilliant philosopher than he seems to get credit for around here (probably because he's more current (he only died in the 1990s) and therefore not as well known as the classic Greek philosophers, or the philosophers of "the enlightenment"). It only seems to be the scientists that mention him at all.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 32
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 10:23:06 PM

Reality is repeatable, just like throwing a stone into an ocean a couple billion times.

I can do that (though it would take a longer time than I'd care to spend on it) and prove to you it isn't reality, but only a perception of it. Do you doubt me? Would you like to challenge me to prove it?
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 33
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 10:39:29 PM

All 7 Billion people on the planet know exactly what happens, the stone sinks.

Unless the stone happens to be flat and wide, and the body of water in question happens to be the dead sea. Then it floats.

Isn't physics wonderful?
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 34
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/17/2009 11:36:51 PM
Hate to throw a stone into this reverie a splash ripples throughout but "correct" insight might bring one into the desire to utilize heroin. cocaine or any other such drug.. If our insight fills us with rose colored utopia there might be something wrong with our intuition... hmmm????
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 35
How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/18/2009 1:25:58 AM

If our insight fills us with rose colored utopia there might be something wrong with our intuition

A valid insight should only point in the direction of Utopia; if it picks it out on the map you can be pretty sure the insight isn't valid.
 hellgremlin
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 37
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How do you know that you know?
Posted: 7/19/2009 3:25:52 PM

How do you distinguish correct insight from incorrect insight? ( Philosophical quest).


I use my judgment. It's pretty good at filtering the correct from the incorrect.
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