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Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 2
A Dangerous PerspectivePage 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I think to me it would come down to respect.

If I acted on it I would lose self-respect. If the other acted on it, I would lose respect for them, because they are married. Why would I want someone that I don't respect?
 Write Time
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 3
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 11:21:20 AM
Well, to stick with your movie analogy ... a marriage is supposed to be a film you create, not one that you watch. If you're just an observer with a wandering eye, then perhaps marriage simply isn't right for you.

Re: your dilemma ... be careful. It's not just the two of you at stake. It's your spouses, children, extended families, colleagues -- anyone who's got an interest in either or both of you. You don't want to mess with their lives or burden them with your secrets.

Never a good thing to start or consummate a new relationship until you've ended the one you're in.
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 4
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 11:28:48 AM
There is a decided difference between a selfish urge and a selfless urge. Integrity is honoring your commitments even at the cost of selfish pleasure. If you must pursue something or someone, you must first honorably and compassionately disentangle yourself from existing obligations and commitments, otherwise you act unethically and lose self respect and the respect of others. (Unless, of course, you have no integrity and lack ethics, in which case you are contemptible.)
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 5
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 12:47:11 PM
I believe that we all have a brain we can use to overide these things. It doesn't matter what religion you are. It's not about sin - it's about common sense. Is a 2 second orgasm worth hurting someone you (supposedly) love for a lifetime? It's about being ready to pay the consequences for a bonehead move. Grow up - everyday life in even a healthy relationship is not fireworks and champagne. If you are the bored one in your marriage it's up to you to breath some life back into it instead of focusing your energies elsewhere and on someone you don't really know. I'm sure your wife doesn't think you're Mr Excitment if your mind is always somewhere else. If you have kids, it's even more of a bonehead move to cheat because your are ruining their life too. If you think no one will ever know - the odds are slim you won't. Women are smarter than you - they know. Please - use your brain - remember you made a promise to someone you love. Are you a man of your word?
Joined: 8/15/2009
Msg: 6
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 1:27:17 PM

That there is nothing 'dangerous' about your perspective. That it never fails to amuse the lengths people will go to to justify and excuse an action that shows a lack of integrity. No one wants to be a bad person so they rationalize it away until they aren't bad but just in a situation where they can no longer 'betray' themselves.

What if these two people are married? What if they both feel the same? What is the right thing to do?

The right thing would be to end their present relationship before engaging in a new one with each other.

What if you perceive them as feeling the same? What if they are married too?

Then both should end their present relationship before engaging in a new one with each other.

Those who have been in a long term relationship (>10 years) can relate that relationships take on a different feel after a while. Spontaneity is replaced with schedules and time constraints. Passion and romance are replaced with deep rooted companionship. The relationship becomes comfortable, predictable, routine, and somewhat monotonous.

To each I say that this is common only if you allow it to be. Be spontaneous. Be romantic. Be passionate.

To use an analogy, you’ve seen the same movie for so long you just want to change the channel. It doesn’t mean you don’t like the movie anymore, it just means you want to watch something different for a change.

No wonder your relationship is stagnant and boring. Ever consider that if you remain the passive watcher that regardless of who the relationship is with, it will follow along the same path? Instead of being the ticket holder to the same movie, day in and day out, why not take the role of the leading man and be him. Change the script and keep it exciting, fresh and new.
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 7
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 2:19:47 PM
well, honestly I am going through/was going through this and basically the right thing to do is step back, they are with that person for a reason, moreover in my situation I fouled it up. Back to the "reason" thing the person they are with might be more stable than you, or traditional, the point is just step back and not get involved if you have integrity and morals, if not these rules don't apply, and yeah it pains the hell out of me that the 2 women who in all my years I am only crazy about them but someone has to be "that" guy, but I'm telling you don't be "that" guy, do the right thing.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 8
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 2:27:30 PM
If you are in that situation very often it tells me that you do not respect your own marriage. One thing is to find people attractive, or to flirt a little, but to push it to that limit to where you have developed feelings and as you say "Happening often" is a serious problem in my book. Either try to bring back the romance on your own marriage, read about how to get the spark back, or go to counseling or something, but with this post you are just looking for an excuse to cheat. Yes. Cheat.

And personally, I have no respect for cheats, male of female. A cheat always has a good excuse.

If you are betraying your own feelings, get out of the marriage.
If you act on your feelings not only are you betraying your spouse but acting rather selfishly.

Again get out of the marriage or try to fix it.
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 9
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 5:18:15 PM
To me what you are talking about OP may represent what research is just starting to crystallise and hopefully in 10 or 20 years will be better able to help with.

This relates to how a person is made, and therefore whether this makeup is compatible with another persion and and what they want.

You, OP, sound like the the type of person who, the research is now showing, has a brain made in a certain way. If that is the case – and it may be and it may not - it means that if , say, you feel attraction to a person, and they to you, and you get together – because of the way your brain is made, as the years go by, you cannot bond with the other person. The other key aspect of this type is- you cannot feel empathy.

People whose brains are made differently to this as the years go by might be tempted by someone else, but (i) because they have bonded, they want to stay with whom they have bonded to, and (ii) because they feel empathy – they cannot bear to hurt the other person anyway.

People of the first type do not have these powerful countervailing forces working on them, so the only strong feeling they have is for the new opportunity. And especially at mid-life, the evidence is these feelings are as strong as those induced by crack cocaine.
I see a time when people seeking as a life partner (as opposed to something short-term) will be able to find out at the start if their prospect is this personality type and avoid them.

The type –there’s a cluster of terms currently used that no doubt people will have heard of– narcissistic personality disorder, sociopath – the psychology field is only starting to really shake this down.
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 10
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 6:02:54 PM
OP - As another poster has mentioned, I feel you are looking for approval of your actions or plans. Sorry, but you won't be getting approval from this lady.

I find it rather sad to hear a married person not working something out with their spouse to get beyond the problem. I actually feel sorry for your wife and children if you have any. If you celebrated your marriage with a church ceremony, you made vows to your wife. Breaking those shows you are disrespectful to your wife, but also that you are a man who cannot be trusted, as your word means sh!t.

I'm divorced and was in a relationship void of intimacy for the last 6-8 years (can't remember exactly....not that the numbers matter a lot). I have met many men while I was married who I had that incredible attraction for, and had many opportunities to cheat, but I am a woman of my word, and remained faithful even though I was not intimate with my husband. When I had enough of being married, I left. I didn't run into the arms of another man, I left to start my life over once again, and make a better choice of a partner to have a relationship with. Today I'm divorced, I like who I look at in the mirror each morning when I brush my teeth, and if/when its time to give my word about being faithful or exclusivity in a relationship, it will mean something to both of us.

I know many married people who cheated, or left a marriage to be with the person they cheated with - only to be cheated on in return, and I have absolutely no sympathy for that person, because what goes around, comes around. Cheaters can have each other, as respectful people steer clear of them.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 11
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 7:06:34 PM
OP: There are TONS of good-looking people around us on a daily basis. It all boils down to self-control and respect.
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 12
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 7:25:32 PM

A. Deny our feelings we betray ourselves.
B. Act on our feelings and betray our spouse.

C. Think using your upper head and what you will
lose if you betray your spouse.

Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 13
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/17/2009 9:25:22 PM
When I'm in a relationship I do not look for or want to attract someone else, so this sort of thing doesn't come up. Sure it's control but not the way you mean, it's called integrity. I don't think that way, so nothing like that happens. I do not believe in attraction where one's pants fall off and it just happens, I believe people either cheat (be it for real or fantasy) or they don't. Depends on the character of the person and what they really want in life. Cheating is a choice, don't blame anyone but yourself for cheating.
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 14
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 5:33:36 AM
Some things aren't a comfortable fit for everyone; and in your case I'm thinking that marriage is one of them.

I also think your age here is an important consideration and one that in tandem with your long term 10+ year marriage (if I've understood that correctly) could more accurately point to your next steps here.

Your post seems to me anyway to suggest someone that perhaps wrestles strongly with impulses and that given the diminishing returns from your unchanging married state that you will be more likely to:

a) no longer deny your feelings;
b) act on our feelings and betray your spouse.

What I also pick up is a sense that one need to be authentic and to be able to have some sort of freedom to 'be'....even though a marriage construct is something that in essence curtails any continuation or 'freedom to explore...' all the flavors of 'what ifs' that exist; and let's face it, will always exist.

Ask yourself....can you really do 10 more years of this?
Marriage is not made for all people and while you may be looking for someone; I'm not getting the feeling that replacing one spouse for another is what you're looking it is the eventual 'settling' and communing only with one..versus exploring the many....that seems to be the problem...could be wrong here...I don't know...

Is that a bad thing? Nope--likely just not for you.
It becomes a bad thing when you have changed something significant in the long term game plan with your wife and didn't let her in on it.
So speak to your wife. Sometimes a spouse is no longer interested in the sexual side of things and more interested in keeping things status quo for her, for the kids and for what others 'see' as an external view...a possible renegotiation of terms might be in order. Or perhaps she'd be okay with dissolution of the marriage....for any number of reasons--who knows.

What's important now is the presence of mind that you now have to minimize the more negative consequences that often happen when people assume that covert decisions and acting unilaterally to satisfy one's own needs...especially when part of an established unit, have no ripple effect on the others---it always does.

Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 16
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 8:51:59 AM
I feel attracted to others, others feel attracted to me. It's kind of part of being human. I don't act on it though. I fought; literally I have the scar to show it, for my marriage and wouldn't want to lose that. I'm in a position where my husband wouldn't care if I were with someone else. I would care and I would care if he where with someone else.

Passion in a marriage is a matter of effort. if you don't make any efforts to keep things alive and kicking then of course it will become dull and routine (comfortable, I believe some people say, but in the end it just means dull and routine). If you make efforts to have romance and incite passion then marriage will last. I knew a couple married for 50+ years and still couldn't keep their hands off one another. They said the secret is to take time for themselves as people, and take time for "THEM" as a couple no matter what that takes. If you don't give your car proper maintenance it won't run properly, same with a marriage.

Be attracted, feel attraction, enjoy the thrill, but don't cheat. If you're not happy, if you've made every effort to make a marriage work and it just isn't then move on, but find someone else AFTER you've broken it off.
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 17
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 9:20:20 AM
For some, commitment and sameness isn't scary because it becomes something that provides constancy and comfort in its very predictability...The very 'sameness' while off-putting for you and and possibly others, will be the very thing that others will find attractive and completely satisfying. Those folk will likely never question if there's better or more out there because the question is not relevant to the people involved.

I am simply trying to better understand the complexity or in other terms fragility of our relationships.

^^^I'll give you that relationships are complex...but I disagree that they are inherently fragile. I think that people who endeavor to do the best they can by each other who hold a similar value toward the relationship enshrine within it a particular level of sturdiness--- strong relationships characterized by 'flex'...and don't necessarily 'give' at the first sign of trouble.

Let me just say now that if I was going to cheat I would not look to you for affirmation. I know it’s wrong and certainly nobody here will argue that it’s right. What I am trying to determine is why. Why is it wrong to have desires? Why is it wrong to want someone new?

^^^What I don't understand is this...If you can say that you understand that you know it's wrong....why is it that you don't understand what's wrong with continually wanting someone new, once a commitment is made to someone?

Correct me if I'm wrong...but your profile seems changed.

Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 19
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 9:36:52 AM
If you are not getting what you need from your spouse, and so unhappy that others are looking better and better to you............It is time to fix your marriage, and not just escape because it feels good.

Having an affair, or even an FWB while being married, is the easy way out, and if you choose that before trying to fix what is wrong within your marriage and vows taken, you disrespect not only your spouse, but yourself, and the one you are escaping with.......

I will tell you from personal experience, that people do not go outside of their marriage, if all their needs are being met within their marriage, and if not, marriage means working on IT first before you consider working on other things.

It takes two to make a marriage, and two to break one up, and if you allow more than two to be involved, in some fashion, all you do is complicate the entire problem, and make it that much more difficult to fix and maintain.

Just my opinion.........
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 21
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 10:21:43 AM
OP I think we strive for monogamy because we aren't animals - we have a sense of right and wrong, morals, a value system. We have deep emotions, and the bonds that are formed via those emotions.

I can only speak from experience. I met lots of attractive men when I was with my now deceased fiancee - and it wouldn't have occurred to me in a million years to cheat, because I loved him. I'll go further, there was someone I worked with that I considered a platonic aquaintance - looking back I must have been blind - who one day planted a kiss on me. I was stunned - because that kind of thing was so far off the radar for me.

I don't know, maybe I'm made differently, but if I am involved with someone, I am generally not even noticing other men - to the point where someone making a play for me doesn't even register.
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 22
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 10:26:46 AM
I have been in your situation before as most people have and there is a point at which you recognize the attraction, from that point on you do limit the time you spend around the person and recognize that you need to shut your feelings down a bit when you are around them.

You recognize that if you are even having these thoughts your marriage is in trouble and you need to do something about it. Miss the passion, the spontaneity, make arrangements for babysitters and surprise your wife with something. Find some new and interesting things to do with your wife and/or your children.

If you love your wife, figure out how to reconnect, if you don't, leave.
Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 23
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 12:14:04 PM
I want the OP to be honest. Did you hope that someone was going to post in this thread that they find your musings to be refreshing and possibly validate your thoughts??

I am sure EVERYONE at one point or another has wanted to be with someone beside the person they are with. This is common and human. We are always going to find others attractive and dare I say it, the attractiveness more often than not is because that "other" person has no history with you. AKA your imagination is fueling your desires.

True beauty comes from knowledge and shared experience. What you are looking at (and think you are seeing) is merely packaging (window dressing etc).
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 24
A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 1:30:42 PM
What if your wife harboured many of your same thoughts and feelings. That wouldn't be hard to imagine if you are neglecting the relationship the way it looks like you are.

What if she acted on those feelings and had been seeing someone for the last couple of years?

How would you feel? Maybe like you were cheated? Just think, you could have been acting on your attractions all of these past 2 years.

That's why they call it cheating OP. There is no excuse. It's bad regardless of how you try to rationalize it. Yes a lot of people do it, but there are also a lot of people who do not. I think we all have had our temptations during relationships. You can be flattered or you can be flattered and respected by making the right choices.
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 25
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 6:44:54 PM
Well... you're married. If you only had a girlfriend... that would have at least given you wiggle room... But if your wife's not causing any pain or strife but just become "predictable", well... you made a promise... "In sickness and in health..." remember that?

It's your responsibility to make your marriage exciting again.
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 26
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/18/2009 9:01:13 PM

My thoughts: Given your profile as context, your post is self-justification. Most of us here will not help you rationalize adultery.

I agree.

Unfortunately too many of us here have been the victim of someone who felt, rationalized, justified their reasoning in this manner.
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 27
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A Dangerous Perspective
Posted: 9/19/2009 1:17:18 AM

Deny our feelings we betray ourselves.

Oh what a massive, steaming pile of horse turd. First of all, this isn't about 'feelings' it's about 'lust'. Lust is Nature's way of getting creatures to procreate. Nothing beautiful, noble, or wonderful about it. It's simply biology. And it's not 'betrayal' if we deny our feelings. It's called 'maturity'. It's called 'self-control'. It's called 'nobility' and even, sometimes, 'sacrifice'. Why do it? To be a decent human being.

I note that 'betraying yourself' somehow comes higher on your list of awful things to do than 'betraying your wife'. So, basically, you're still a selfish little boy who thinks he deserves to get everything he wants just because he wants it.

Why is it wrong to have desires?

It isn't wrong. We all have 'em. What's wrong is to think that you're entitled to get things you want just because you happen to want them. Just who, exactly, are you that you would deserve something to satisfy you if it means causing pain to others? Hm? Do you desire your neighbour's car? Yes? Going to take it? What about your boss's office? Going to tell him tomorrow that he's got to go because you want it so you should have it?

Why is it wrong to want someone new?

Because tossing over the person you currently have who, presumably, trusts you, will mean that in order to get your goodies, you decide that it's ok for others to suffer pain. And the pain that your betrayed spouse will feel is worse than yours will be just because you didn't get the piece of azz you happen to be jonesing for at the moment.

No other animal in the animal kingdom is forever monogamous, why do we strive for this?

Well, see, some of us evolved. Animals have one purpose in life - to create more of their species. They don't get into relationships. They don't fall in love. They don't know anything of trust or betrayal. A cow will not feel suicidal if the bull schtups another cow. Your dog won't need antidepressants if his mate makes whoopie with the rest of the dogs on the block. Humans, on the other hand, have evolved to suffer great loss if their partners desert them. That righ t there should tell you that we are not just 'animals in the animal kingdom'.

However, if you prefer to behave as an animal over trying to act like an evolved human, then toss your clothes and house and go live in a zoo with the other critters. Then you can behave just like them.

I don’t know…maybe I am the only one with enough courage to confront the truth of life.

Oh puleeeeze. Where's the 'nauseous' emoticon? Let's give ourselves airs or what. If you're aiming to be King of the Melodrames, you're well on your way. A million cheaters before you (and yes, you're trying to build yourself a justification to cheat, so don't dissemble) have pictured themselves Tragic Heroes in order to make their affairs palatable to their consciences. Give it a rest, dude - you're as transparent as Saran Wrap.
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