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 Chuck65201
Joined: 11/19/2007
Msg: 1
How male circumcision hurts women Page 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
This is an interesting article I found while surfing some blogs:


Genital cutting on infant boys is luckily losing its legitimacy, but there are still those out there with misconceptions about the effects of this traumatic procedure. Not only is it taking away something that nature intended men to have, terrifying to a new human who is wrenched away from mommy to have his most sensitive area hacked off, and a clear violation of human rights (these things should be a choice, not an ego-driven "I want him to look disfigured like me" idealism), but it hurts women in later life as well.

I have already written about the negative consequences of circumcision on boys. The decision taken from them, the nerves destroyed, and the pseudo-science and ancient social paradigms that we insist on propagating. The practice only gained popularity when the craze of Masturbation Hysteria drove doctors in the early 20th century to prescribe the procedure as a sort of anti-sex salvation.


Source and More:
http://www.helium.com/items/477183-how-male-circumcision-hurts-women

It goes into some detail too about sexual intimacy and other things.
 winteragain
Joined: 3/26/2009
Msg: 2
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/7/2009 5:30:06 PM
Dude did you know a condom protects from more STD's plus pregnancy than a circumcised weiner alone. it's true, you should have your guy use one some time
 Chuck65201
Joined: 11/19/2007
Msg: 3
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/8/2009 2:01:02 AM
coloradostarlight I'm presenting the article not presenting an ultimatum so no need to be so rude and crab nasty. That is really not why we have adult discussions is it now.

Did you read the entire article? I too was cut myself as a baby and I have had no problems at all either as another poster stated.

It was presented here as an article of interest.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 4
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/8/2009 5:54:43 AM
Meh, I think the whole thing is over-hyped. Having spend time on the L&D unit and in the Nursery, I can tell you other things occur as well. How about the brutal stabbing of the foot for that first BG level reading? What about smearing that horrible horrible goo in their eyes to prevent in fection. What about being held under a stream of water and washed?! Babies seem to cry more from this than they do the circumcisions I have been present for, yet noone complains about some "violation" because of it.

Lets focus on how it could be BAD for you to NOT have it done...

Increased risk of UTI/STD's
Self-conscious attitude reguarding, due to peers
Plenty of women, for better or worse, would freak when they saw it

Imagine how these things impact the male ego. Yes you can devalue this as some sort of "deformed like me" thing, or you can realise that maybe that kid's ego is going to be crushed because he isn't circumcised. I have only personally known one guy who wasn't, and his girl constantly complained of premature ejaculation. Whether or not it was due to him having all these nerves, or just a personal problem, I will never know, nor am I worried about it, but I do know that it never HELPED his gf in any way. Or him for that matter.

It seems that there is a push for it to be more optional than mandatory, however, if I have a kid don't want anyone looking at my kid like he just whipped out some sort of alien from his drawers.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 5
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/9/2009 12:29:52 AM
^I can only imagine the pain. After I got cut, I didn't walk for about a year! Thankfully I was too young to remember it!
 white_flag
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 6
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/9/2009 11:00:47 AM
Traumatizing?
C'mon. They're infants when it's done; losing their pacifier is traumatizing to them, going 10 minutes past their feeding time is traumatizing. Do any of them remember this "traumatizing" event when they're older? No.

Playing devil's advocate, it may be that God intended men to have a foreskin, but He gave us free will and the ability to learn and thus we learned about the circumcision - all things lead back to Him and one could say this is done because He wants it. If you believe in that kind of a God.

I dislike men with foreskins. It looks gross, it feels even worse, and it's just a hassle during any sort of contact - oral sex, getting the condom on, etc. Not pleasant at all in my opinion.

If you want to talk about "traumatizing" maybe your (and "your" isn't specific to anyone here) efforts would be better served fixating on female circumcision. It's always amusing to me how the things that effect men seem (note my use of the word "seem") to get the most attention. Either that, or it falls back on the "It's not my kid/country/problem" mentality.

Either way, I see absolutely nothing wrong with circumcision. It takes little time and usually heals with no consequences and its done during a period of a boy's life where he's guaranteed not to remember it as I don't believe you start forming concrete long-term memories until around age 5.
 white_flag
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 7
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/11/2009 1:37:49 PM
Wiyan, a lot of things are traumatic for infants. Like I said, losing a pacifier can be traumatic, bonking your head on the rail of your crib can be traumatic, getting the ABG drawn (heel stick) can be traumatic, not being fed right NOW! can be traumatic. Of course a circumcision can be traumatic; but they anesthetize the area, some even are sedated (my cousin was when he had it done earlier this year and he's 2) so claiming it's traumatic for the child is really not a good argument against it. The degree of trauma is minimal. There aren't going to be any long term effects, the child isn't going to be traumatized for the rest of his life, he won't be terrified of knives, doctors, hospitals etc because of this procedure. If done as an infant, the trauma is over by day's end. Even my cousin, who is 2, isn't traumatized by it; he just says "someone cut my pee pee.. I got a lollipop".

I can think of far more traumatic procedures we inflict on children; chemotherapy, surgery, blood tests, bone marrow biopsies, etc. Necessary, yes but in my eyes so is circumcision.

Trauma is a fact of life, it's the degree of trauma that I care about and frankly in my opinion, a circumcision has a low trauma measurement to me.

kelleyc, yea they do remove much of the nerve endings. They don't usually stop there; some customs indicate it all has to be sewn up making sexual intercourse excruciating and the chance of being unable to give birth high. The reason it is done, in some cases, is because the belief in the area it is done is that woman should not feel pleasure from sex. Pleasure should only be for the man. It's disgusting and a far more important issue than male circumcision if you ask me. But, the general consensus usually is "not my daughter/not my country/not my problem". Sad.
 smartypants24
Joined: 8/3/2009
Msg: 8
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:56:10 PM
In working with young children in their families, I've noticed that many of the boys have not been circumcized...and because doctors have not advised* many the mothers on how to properly care for an infants uncircumsized penis (pulling back the foreskin regularly to remove excess smegma and debris such as feces and lint) they are much more prone to infections, oozing, and blocked pores/ducts under the foreskin, causing/contributing to odor, yeast (and other) infections, pimples (yup I've seen all of this)...and apparently many men who weren't circumsized as babies choose to have it done later in life, possibly because of the above complications, as well as feeling less attractive to women who have issues with their foreskin when they become sexually active, and having less confidence in the bedroom.
*I know mothers with uncircumsized boys who were never taught how to clean under his foreskin until I told/showed them how after he got an infection*
 ceaser_73
Joined: 11/7/2008
Msg: 9
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History
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 10/12/2009 10:06:02 AM
In the words of Febee from friends, "smelly**** oh smelly****
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 10
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History
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 12/1/2009 8:46:24 PM
It's not traumatic, as the OP and other circumcised men have testified. But yes, it should be a matter of choice of the parent.

Religious Jews do it as part of their faith. Muslims also. Xians never had to, not since 50 CE. But some adopted it, the Coptic, Ethtiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Churches. The Roman Catholic Church banned it in 1442. Protestants never had to.

But there is a big confusion about circumcision. Right now, there is a huge drive against Xianity in Europe and North America. Many people in America don't know why they were circumcised and thought it was because of religion, as they don't know the facts. They believe that circumcision was introduced for religious reasons, and believe that circumcision is barbaric, because religion is evil, and religions were the ones to bring it to North America.

It only became popular in Europe and North America, due to the influence and opinions of a few doctors. Science sometimes learns, and in this case, medicine has too. It's pretty clear that it's not necessary, as long as the foreskin is cleaned properly. As long as daddy or mummy shows the boys how to clean their foreskin, no problem. As the vast majority of Europe and North America are either Xians or without any religion, they can be uncircumcised as much as they want.

The only conflict is if Europeans and North Americans start forcing their religions freedoms on everyone else, and start violating everyone else's right to free exercise of religion.

The article also mentions that it's done routinely in Africa to prevent AIDS. In Africa, the WHO repeatedly tell everyone that condoms are the best way to stop AIDS. But condoms require men to wear them, and women to refuse to have sex unless the men wear them. That so often doesn't happen, that Africa is facing an AIDS pandemic of 22.4 million and that's only been in about 30 years.

There was a study that claimed that circumcision cuts down the rate of transmission by 50%, and has the same effects as a vaccination. So many aren't using condoms, that the WHO said that anything that could halve the spread of AIDS, by a simple surgical operation, would be so worthwhile, that it would be worth it, just to stop the rampant spread of AIDS in Africa.

The WHO carried out their own study, and found the same. They actually stopped the study mid-way. They said that the results were so amazing, that they felt that it was unfair to the men in the control group, who weren't circumcised, to deny them the benefits of the protection from AIDS by being circumcised.

Again, the WHO always recommends condoms first, last and always.

It's just that so few men in African use condoms, and so many women give in to unprotected sex, and AIDS is spreading so rapidly, that the WHO feel that even circumcising nearly all men in Africa, just to save half the people, would be well worth it. Considering that it's 22.4 million now, and could easily spread to double that in only 30 years, it could mean saving another 22.4 million people. That's an awful lot of people to save.
 WereJaguar
Joined: 3/26/2009
Msg: 11
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 12/19/2009 11:41:31 AM
The American Academy of Pediatrics no longer recommends male circumcision. Europe has not circumcised their male infants for many decades now - yet AIDS is not ravaging the Europeans. Ancient Greece and Rome did not circumcise anybody yet they had no problems with sexual intercourse. Circumcision is unnecessary.
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 12
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 1/2/2010 7:24:58 PM
In Australia is it quite unusual for a guy less than 25 years old to be circumsized. Most infants for at least the last 25 years have been left with their foreskin intact. I've had partners cut and uncut and honestly didn't notice any difference.. In fact i asked my current partner whether he was or not because every time i saw his penis it was erect and i couldn't tell.. Whereas my previous partner said he was cut but he had more foreskin than my current?? As long as the guys keeep it clean i can't see why anyone would find it gross...
 wizard6x9
Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 13
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 1/3/2010 10:26:04 AM
You should have done a little more research, both study done in Africa were deemed by the american med. soc. as incorrectly administered and its findings not accepted. Therefor it is not recomended except for medical reasons. And if your worried about std's you should always have the man wear a condom.
 TallerDave
Joined: 1/4/2010
Msg: 14
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 1/7/2010 3:59:59 PM
It should be the individuals choice.
 letshaveacrack!
Joined: 1/25/2008
Msg: 15
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 1/13/2010 1:22:13 PM
I am from Scandinavia and girls over there do love the foreskin, you can tell by how they love to play with it and it`s sexy over there,, just like love handles are very sexy on a lady in my opinion,, i still think it`s a 14 century mentality to do the circumsision and should stay in the middle east and not be an issue over here.
you want to follow your religion do it quitly and don`t push the shit on nonbelivers
 AtheistScholar
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 16
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/7/2011 8:13:04 AM

Perhaps you should look up the articles that show that circumcision cuts the rate of transmission of stds.


Actually, the study was a preliminary that has proven to be a misnomer. Most uncirced men are in the third world where they lack many of the innovations that prevent disease transmission. Subsequent studies done has shown less cut & dry results. Foreskin helps to cut back on friction which causes less tearing in partners and this translates into less chance of a disease entering the blood stream. BUT foreskin is also capable of trapping a partner's lubrication which can lead to higher risk of exposure in the male. So really, in the end it works out.

As to why there is a foreskin: the body doesn't hold onto many organs for the sheer sake of it. They all have an evolutionary reason for existence that benefits survival. In the case of fore skin semen is trapped in the foreskin which increases fertility, it cuts back on vaginal tearing (because it's sheath within a sheath action instead of straight skin such as with the uncirced penis) and finally: it protects the glans which leaves it more sensitive and thus faster/easier to ejaculate (increasing fertility again).
 1bellanella
Joined: 1/24/2010
Msg: 17
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History
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/9/2011 7:15:11 AM
I have to chime in here. I've been with uncircumcised men and I have NOT noticed a lack of ego nor have their been any premature ejaculation issues. In fact, they seem to last LONGER than other men. Much longer, in my experience. I'm not saying I think everyone should not circumcise their boys but I really don't think it makes that much of a difference. (And for the record, I've never freaked out when I saw them. Unless you count getting excited )
 RichenLosAngeles
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 18
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/10/2011 1:34:50 PM
I watched as my 8 day-old son was circumsized . I think he did cry for a minute, then stopped. There were no drugs given.
What "trauma" is the OP's article referring to? This was in no way as bad of an experience as the first time he had to have a tooth filled at the dentist's office at age 10. That incident gave ME trauma.
 Song_bird86
Joined: 4/7/2010
Msg: 19
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/10/2011 6:51:33 PM
There are many videos and sites that will tell you that after a circumcision the boy is left in a state of shock like after being abused. I had my son circ'd and I don't remember any state of shock, just crying when he peed. I don't think it was properly done though because even now at almost 5 he still has skin that covers the head, not completely like an in tact but it's there. My nephew is intact and his skin still hasn't retracted and he turned 3 in January and it worries me. Shouldn't it have come down by now?

To the reference above and the look of a penis not being a sense of arousal, that's not true for me. I like a good looking penis. I've been with both cut and intact and I much prefer the cut.
 patrick28t
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 20
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/10/2011 8:31:58 PM
The perceived needs/desires of women really have zero relevance in this discussion. That's not even a concern...

The bottom line is that nobody has any business to non-consensually mutilate an infant's body for reason x/y/z.

Would you tattoo a newborn?

Medical is ok, but then it's not considered mutilation if there's a reason for the surgery.

Religion shouldn't be used an an excuse to violate these universal principles. It is, but we're in an imperfect world.
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 21
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How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/12/2011 9:49:52 PM
its a religious mutilation passed down for centurys where there was very little sanitation so the custom was put into religion like wiping your butt with only one hand and eating with the other. The pecker could become rotten and not work(bad for making babys) or could infect the woman(bad for making babys) and religion is all about breeding for that particular god. If you weener smells like rotten fish then get some soap and clean it up dumbass... It is as much mutilation as vaginal circumsision...... if you cant see that then you are religious or have been convinced its good by medical staff who were influenced by religion.
 gypsyfyre
Joined: 7/15/2009
Msg: 22
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/13/2011 8:56:27 AM
Prefers cut lol
 CumberlandIsTheBestLand
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 23
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/15/2011 8:21:07 AM
It was done to me as a baby, and I always wish it hadn't been, moreso since I've talked to men on the net that weren't cut, and, say they have no health or hygiene problems with their foreskins.

If I ever conceive sons with a woman, I won't have it done to them.
 CumberlandIsTheBestLand
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 24
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/16/2011 12:07:11 PM

That bloody stinks that so many Americans believe you have to have no foreskin not to get bullied by your peers




I've read that a lot, and honestly, I think it's more of an urban legend than anything. From my middle school and high school experiences, a boy in the locker room is far more likely to be bullied because he spends an extraordinarily large amount of time leering at other men's penises.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 25
How male circumcision hurts women
Posted: 7/17/2011 11:56:41 AM

That bloody stinks that so many Americans believe you have to have no foreskin not to get bullied by your peers

It happened to my little brother. He had chronic UTIs and my step-mother finally got to the root of the problem. He refused to urinate at school because he was relentlessly teased. I don't think children have enough forethought to have been thinking he was lacking foreskin, they just knew he looked different (and children have a natural curiosity about the human body, they likely weren't oogling his winky with any kind of "intent" they likely just looked and it was glaringly obvious he was different ~ hence? Kids will be kids and he became the recipient of their mockery.) My son was circumcised ~ he made comments after adult-hood that he was thankful I'd made that decision. It's one of those to each their own things. JMO
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