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 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 1
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chemtrailsPage 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
What are the fake clouds in the sky? why do the planes make clusters of chemtrails in one area until there is a blanket over populated areas and other days the sky is crystal clear?
Look up chemtrails on youtube.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 2
chemtrails
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:26:29 PM
Stargazer pretty much nailed it. Atmospherics-- various air temperature/density/moisture content. Hot meets cold. Sometimes makes trails; sometimes doesn't; sometimes makes trails that last; sometimes doesn't. The rest is bunk. People with too much time on their hands and all that sort of thing.

Unless... you think I am also one of "them."
 AppleGeek
Joined: 9/26/2006
Msg: 3
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:48:06 AM
The #1 byproduct of burning hydrocarbons is water. After it cools down from it condenses because like the man said it's cold up there. Nearly instant man made cloud.

As for the rest of it, hold a piece of white paper above the flame of a candle, or check out the exhaust of a diesel truck. Jet engines are some how miraculously clean engines.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 4
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 6:29:31 AM
Okay, this is silly. The discussion is predictably loony. Thanks for the links, blues... they were really, really funny, and I needed a laugh this morning.

Glad I stopped in, though... the OP is really, really cute. :)
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 5
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:07:27 AM

For what possible purpose could there be for aerial spraying of anything from jet airliners?

We have to ask ourselves what copious amounts of barium oxide & 10 micron aluminum oxide might be for. While I understand that these are "naturally" produced by jet exhaust, the natural production of it doesn't account for anywhere near the mass dispensed.

Chemtrails (at least the ones over Manitoba) are not the product of commercial airliners. They are produced by generally unmarked military jets with a whisper quiet exhaust. I note that they are usually dispensed in the 20 to 25 thousand foot altitude The jets are devoid of commercial markings and seem to have only "tail numbers" on them that I can seldom make out (though I think they are American -- It looks like they start with an "N").

I first noticed them about 1995 or so. I looked up and saw the entire sky cris-crossed with about a dozen of them. For years I wondered what in hell was going on up there. Enquiries were always answered with "those are just normal contrails" but I'm not that stupid. I have studied them and they are most definitely not regular contrails and most definitely not regular flights. I've watched the spraying start and stop and I've watched the spray "switch off", while the jet does about a 120° turn and start up again as it flies back the other way. (maybe he forgot his coffee at the airport?)

I have no idea what their purpose is, but the secretiveness and evasiveness of the "authorities" suggests that something isn't "kosher." The American military has been caught more than once before using the population of Winnipeg for human experimentation via aerosol dispersal (back in 1953 - zinc cadmium sulfide and some biological agent & probably something else that caused the chrome on cars to bubble almost overnight). Based on their history of lies, I have no reason to trust either the Canadian or American governments.
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 6
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 10:43:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIUACk46TU8
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 7
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:02:04 AM
Here's an old Discovery channel show on chemtrails:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/discovery.html
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 8
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:02:29 AM
Laughter!

Not only was that video full of Photoshopped images, ignorance, and paranoid ramblings without any of the alleged "100% PROOF THAT CHEMTRAILS CAUSE DEATH!" that is touted in the title, they can't even stay on-topic, wandering off into HAARP, mind-control (what?!?!), "man-made rain is no rain at all" (yeah, plains supercells produce a hell of a lot of lightning AND RAIN/HAIL/TORNADOES, but they only do it over a narrow corridor: argumentum ad ignorantum) and UFOs!!!!

Please tell me you can do better than that, or my little heart will be broken.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 9
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:16:52 AM
I would add to Quietjohn that much of the upper atmosphere is supercooled water vapor meaning it is below the temperature needed to condense into droplets or ice crystals (clouds). The passing of the plane with aformentioned pressure changes and its exhaust particulates produce clouds much like cloud seeding does. Natural turbulance in the upper atmosphere produces areas of concentrated supercooled water vapor much like you see with scattered clouds. When the jets pass through dense areas, there are contrails and no contrails when the air is drier. As for sticky coatings, usually that comes from trees at certain times of the year and can be carried by the wind for short distances. It can be corrosive and damaging to the paint so I would suggest washing it off quickly. "Bubbling" chrome plating is due to poor process control on the chrome plating possibly combined with the corrosive tree sap. If you are familiar with soldering, there is a reference to "rosin core" solder. That is tree sap (rosin). When heated, it melts and eats away surface oxides allowing the liquid solder to bond. Its pretty much the same sticky stuff.

In the cold war, there were continuous flights of bombers ready to fly over the pole to bomb the Soviets with nukes. These flew at very high altitude in holding patterns and yes, they were classified. The greater concern was not what they dropped but what they could drop.

Go wash your car, the bombers are retired.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 10
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:27:43 AM
OMG. It's worse than anyone thought... the US government has been doing this since World War II... over Europe, even:

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~josephkennedy/combat_photo_gallery2.htm
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 11
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:07:09 PM

"Bubbling" chrome plating is due to poor process control on the chrome plating possibly combined with the corrosive tree sap.

Sorry...Here in Winnipeg, anybody that left their car outside at a particular time back in the fifties, suddenly found at about the same time that their flawless chrome plating (most of it years old) had almost overnight become a victim of "poor process control." In all of my years since, I have never seen chrome bubble up so fast or so much on so many vehicles as that one occasion.
I'm well aware of the effects of tree sap; I've had to contend with it all my life on all my vehicles. Tree sap had nothing to do with it.

I was just a kid when this happened and didn't think much of it at the time. When I got older and talked about it with some friends of mine (who also remembered the incident from their childhood), we wondered what might have caused this phenomenon, but still had no explanation for it. Only after we learned of the illegal aerosol program over Winnipeg did we finally hang an explanation on it. Needless to say, I'm not impressed about being an unknowing guinea pig for a foreign military's R & D program. I'm not too impressed with Canada either, for allowing a crime against humanity (non-consensual human experimentation) to be perpetrated on its own citizens. Frankly, I think we have sufficient evidence to win a major class action lawsuit against Canada (and possibly the US)...hmmm...
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 12
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:13:58 PM
Duks, I used to live in Winnipeg during the '80s. I've got more concerns with my exposure to the mosquito foggings (malathion) than with these paranoid rantings. Seriously! Automobile and industrial smog is a far bigger (and real) concern!

I'm concerned with all that other crap too (they have been forced to modify the mosquito fogging program)...I don't see why we can't sue various corporations for the damage they've done to both the environment and to people. In fact, I'm working on just that very thing, but it's funny....I had totally forgotten about the illegal (under international law) aerosol experiments over Winnipeg. It's all a matter of record now, so a class action lawsuit should be a piece of cake. I was here in 1953 when they dumped some Zinc Cadmium sulfide on our heads, not even knowing the toxicity implications of the inhaled compounds at the time (to the best of my knowledge, the cadmium is STILL a health concern. So far as I'm aware, they still don't know (at least not officially) the actual toxicity of the aerosol. They also lied to our mayor years later about some sort of chemical fog they tested on us. I STILL don't know what that was, but believe it was a biowarfare test virus dispersal (They pulled a similar stunt in the New York subways many years ago - a lot of people got sick). A few people may have died as a result of some of the testing, and I'm sure many were harmed by it to some extent. At any rate I've always been anti-war and dead-set against weapons research, so even if it turned out to be relatively innocuous crap they stuffed down our throats, I'm mad as hell about it. The simple fact is that non-consensual human experimentation is a crime that was perpetrated on innocent people by a government that cares nothing for them. They should NOT be allowed to get away with it!
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 13
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:28:41 PM
http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=5739

But hey, if the government did ANYTHING, they did EVERYTHING.

What.ev.er.

Also, could you propose a better method for studying how bioweapon releases might disperse in an attack? A relatively harmless, easily-tracked powder, or perhaps they should have released an engineered bacterium that was fluorescent? Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would accompany THAT?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 14
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:53:11 PM

could you propose a better method for studying how bioweapon releases might disperse in an attack?

Yeah...Save the money and a lot of grief by not testing at all! I don't buy the argument that we have to "defend ourselves" against enemy attack. That was just a pile of horse manure from day one, as the arms race clearly demonstrates. If you don't act like an enemy, you probably won't have one either.

If somebody wants to put you in a movie, they have to get your consent and pay you some sort of consideration. Why should a government you despise in the first place be able to experiment on you without either your knowledge or consent? Simple answer: they shouldn't, and by law, they can't...so why let them get away with it? What'd they EVER do for us, besides exploit us as "human resources"?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 15
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:20:13 PM
With a little research, I now see that birds are spraying, too. Can you believe it? BIRDS!!

How deep does this rabbit hole go?

http://contrailscience.com/things-are-not-as-they-seem/
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 16
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:21:05 PM
Some people have already done a decent job of explaining how contrails occur, and that they are normal and caused by humidity levels in the atmosphere.

Instead I will explain, using simple math, why "chemtrails" are not really possible.

Let's say that "chemtrails" are sprayed to form a cloud the width of the wingspan and the height of the tail.
A 747-400 has a wingspan of 64.4m, a tail height of 19.4m and cruises at 500km/h.
This means every MINUTE of "chemtrial" production, the plane would be producing a cloud 10,833,333m3 in size.
With contrails, this is rather meaningless since the moisture comes from the jets intakes. But it is an entirely different story when you are claiming the clouds are actually some sort of chemical cloud.
I can't really tell you about the visibility of conspiracy substances, but let's say it can make a visible cloud with only 1 part per million (I doubt anything would be visible 20,000ft away at that concentration). That would mean for every minute of "chemtrail" production would require 10m3 of product. Considering the length of some of the contrails I have seen, I do not believe it would be possible for an aeroplane to carry enough chemicals to produce a cloud of similar size.

One of the posters above has his profile picture of himself in uniform in the captains chair of what looks to be a midbody airliner (possible a 737-800). Maybe people should listen to him, it is his job to know about these things.
Also I grew up in an airline family, I have 5 pilots in my family, I have friends who are pilots, and none of them believe that contrails are actually chemicals being put into our atmosphere.

If "chemtrails" were real, and have been spraying over North American cities for the last decade, you would think at least one person would come out and tell the world what they have seen. We have not heard from one person with any qualifications to say "chemtrails" are real.
Even 9/11 conspiracies have found some officials to question the official story. With "chemtrails" all we hear from are the typical conspiracy theorist, with no scientific background in meteorology, aerospace engineering, or any science that could logically explain how the "chemtrails" are produced.

And if you are still worrried, just make sure you always have a tinfoil hat handy, in case the chemtrails are trying to read your mind.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 17
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:13:20 PM
I'm not quite as concerned about the possible toxicity of the inhaled Cadmium in 1953 as I am about the car chrome. We got the car in 1961 (used -- so it was already some years old) and I remember the chromed bumpers (they were gorgeous...They really knew how to chrome in those days -- probably used more nickel). The car was a bit long for our existing garage, so the doors were often left open, shielding the front bumper and exposing the rear. One day I noticed that the chrome on the rear bumper had bubbled horribly. (Needless to say, my dad was none too pleased about it!) The front bumper was still fine. As a kid, I knew little about chemistry, or what might cause something like that, so I didn't think much more about it at the time. I remember my dad talking to some friends (who had developed a similar problem) and they were chalking it up to "sh¡tty chroming" at the factory.

Looking back, I wonder what garbage chemicals did that to the bumper and did I breathe any of it? If so, what did it do to me? A lot of people I know have died of cancer, and while there were probably a myriad of much more likely causes, different in each case, there is always a little nagging doubt.., Did so & so die as a result of one of the experiments? If I get cancer, what will have originally caused it? Granted the probabilities are vanishingly small, but not non-existent and that enrages me, in particular because nobody asked us for our permission...They just went ahead & did it. THAT I will not forgive!...EVER

@ super ryan

Instead I will explain, using simple math, why "chemtrails" are not really possible.


Your math is flawed. For one thing, the particulates are released from nozzles that are probably only an inch or so in diameter. Bear in mind that the spray only has to go a distance of about 100 km before "refills" are required. I took the liberty of doing a few simple calculations (simplifying where possible) and the result I get is quite different than yours:

I can't post the calculations here, simple as they are, but they show a cloud of nearly total opacity at 100 meters diameter. Assuming 10% opacity is still a very well defined cloud (especially considering how much light aluminum oxide probably reflects), I'd say a "cloud" of 1000 meters diameter (circular cross section of contrail) would still appear very much like a heavy cloud. Add to that the "flattening" effect resulting from temperature differential with respect to the atmosphere, and it could probably spread to a 2 kilometer width by the time it starts really losing opacity and looking much like a diffuse cirrus cloud. I'll grant you that I could be out by a factor of perhaps ten (probably about two -- these are VERY informal approximations), but I think I've made my point that it is anything but impossible to physically produce a "chemtrail" with a solid particulate spraying apparatus (which ought to be good news to the patent holders).
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 18
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:13:01 PM

Then there are the physical problems of where to fit all this "chemical" in passenger jets.

I've already said they aren't commercial jets...leastways they have no airline markings. These jets appear to be tankers, moreover, they are flying well below 35000 ft., usually about 25,000 and no...they aren't circling the airport, but they do turn around (sometimes). It has also been well established what aerosol is usually used. There are high concentrations of barium and aluminum oxide in powder form.

The only things I can think of are that they may have implemented Edward Teller's program to boost the planet's albedo (and forestall global warming), or perhaps Haarp is "blasting " holes in the ionisphere that they are trying to cover. There may well be other reasons, weather control comes to mind, but the government's silence on the matter indicates that there's something they don't want us to know; which only makes me more curious, since we have no reason whatsoever to trust the ba$tards.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 19
chemtrails
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:47:18 PM
If anyone should know what exhaust in cold air looks like it's us!

that's why I'm so interested in the phenomenon. I was looking into it years before it became a popular conspiracy theory. Like I said before, in the mid-nineties They just sort of "sprang" on the scene. I've been looking up at jets most of my life (I used to enjoy identifying them when I was younger). I remember talking to one of my professors in Applied math about his work optimizing exhaust duct shapes for noise reduction and I remember seeing those designs become a reality, as the jets over winnipeg became much quieter. The exhaust ducts on the tankers I see dispensing aerosols are an order of magnitude quieter than that. It's almost spooky; they can be right overhead at 20000 ft. and you can barely hear them. Maybe it's a side effect of the aerosols, I don't know, but I rather suspect they are designed to be unobtrusive to keep people from looking up and paying attention.

It is virtually certain that they are dumping a lot of aluminum & barium into the atmosphere. Why, I don't know. I DO know that the clouds & trails play hell with my observing on many nights and it never used to. Maybe I should ask some of the old timers at RASC if they've noticed the change over the years -- We can't all be wearing tinfoil hats. lol
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 20
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:28:44 AM
It's more then simple plane exhaust. Normal airline planes leave very little exhaust. The chemtrails have so much it is a joke. It lingers for hours. It turns a blue sky white. It is not just the chemicals that are a concern, it's the blocking of the sky.
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 21
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:23:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8NmzfjIkI0

You are in denial.
 aimee333
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 22
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chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:38:36 AM
This is simple plane exhaust...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QssHrbDm4
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 23
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:47:39 AM
As no one has answered these relevant questions yet, they bear repeating:

How do you tell the difference between a plane that is cruising by at 25,000 feet, and one crusing above at 30,000 feet?

How do you tell the difference between a contrail, and a chemtrail?

OK, the first question is pretty much directed at JustDukky and his claims. Good luck with that answer, btw.

The second question, however, is for anyone to answer... anyone at all...

You are in denial.

Yes. We deny the validity and veracity of many youtube videos. For example, someone could show a picture of a fallen down tree-- that is not sufficient evidence of an alien landing there (to me, at least).

The German government has admitted to the chemtrails spraying on National Television, but lied, saying they are not harmful. These are Government facts.

You mean this debunked story?

http://contrailscience.com/germans-admit-they-used-duppel/
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 24
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:00:33 AM
I use the length of contrails as an indication of what kind of weather to expect for observing with my scope.


Now that many reach from almost one horizon to the other and turn into pseudo-cirrus clouds (an abrupt change from before about 1995, when that NEVER happened), when I see ANY on a given day, I generally don't bother setting up my scope.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 25
chemtrails
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:56:09 AM

How do you tell the difference between a plane that is cruising by at 25,000 feet, and one crusing above at 30,000 feet?


I used to like spotting & identifying planes, so many years ago, I made a little sort of low power (5x) spotting scope with a reticule for angular measurement. If I could identify the plane, I could work out the distance based on angular measurement of wingspan or length. Timing the passage across the FOV of the scope allowed me to work out the speed it would be travelling at.

After awhile, you kinda get a feel for the altitude & velocity of planes (as long as you can identify them) without the scope. Not as exact, but still a good ballpark figure. Most of the "chemtrail" planes appear to be either (KC?) 135s or 167s. Their flightpath is low and straight, so they obviously aren't in any kind of "holding pattern" for landing at the airport, and they are flying too low & slow to be simply overflying Winnipeg, so what are they doing?


How do you tell the difference between a contrail, and a chemtrail?

That's easy I never saw a chemtrail for 30 years (lots of contrails though). Since about 1995, I see them all the time, mostly on "unmarked" aircraft. (identified commercial aircraft seem to still produce regular contrails as far as I can tell)...What's changed?...Why with only some aircraft?...Did Jet fuel undergo a major change in 1995?...Doubtful, since most aircraft seem to produce regular contrails.

I think these questions are reasonable, yet anytime I've asked them, I've been given the usual bullsh¡t spiel about "normal contrails" they give to everyone else. Sorry. I'm not that stupid; if they were normal contrails I wouldn't be asking about them. I need better answers and I'm not getting them from the people who ought to know. This alone tells me something is being hidden from the general public. If they aren't telling us, it's probably because they don't want us to know. Well I didn't know I was used as a human guinea pig and it isn't a nice feeling; certainly one that doesn't exactly engender trust in government. The best assumption is that they are lying their a$$es off. They always did before; why should they change now?
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