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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > How can you prove soul exists after death?      Home login  
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 lsdime
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 3
How can you prove soul exists after death?Page 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
You can't prove it. There is no evidence whatsoever that a soul exists. The person that you talked to is using logic.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 4
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:20:33 PM
There is no scientific proof that a soul exists that is accepted by mainstream science.

I think that knowledge of the soul comes from within a person's consciousness, and is part of awareness. In philosophical terms, it is called "Gnosis." Which means "knowing." Which is exactly what you describe as how you feel about your own soul. You can try to describe what you know to be true for you, but it is very difficult to convey a feeling. It is like trying to describe what it feels like to ride a bike. Once you learn, you just know, and as far as I can tell, you will "always know" how to ride a bike, even if it has been many years since you last rode one. It seems to be the same kind of experience.

So, in your friend's case, for them, when they die, their soul in effect, doesn't exist because he/she has never experienced the awareness of it. So, in my opinion, given this person's awareness, their soul will die when they die. Their soul, if they have one, will go on, but that individual person will not exist as before...because from then on, they will be aware of having only a soul, where as before they were only aware of being alive in a body....which is two very different "people" (or entities,) in my opinion.

To describe to them something they have not experienced might only give them an idea of some possibility, but because we have free will, they can choose to only perceive it as an intellectual exercise, or a fantasy, and in that case it would be like reading a book about traveling to another country...not the same as being there, and not the same as "knowing."

I can't imagine anyone getting through life never having at least heard of the concept of a "soul," so don't feel you are responsible to try to save them by introducing them to this concept. However, your version of what it means to have a soul; your philosophy, your ethics, that might be something to discuss, as each person has a slightly different set of beliefs that may or may not be helpful to someone else. I would be sure not to be dogmatic or condescending about it when you discuss your beliefs with them.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 5
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:54:51 PM
You could always look for "tweets" from people who have passed on or check for Facebook status' which say "Dead... Could be worse..."
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 6
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:33:33 PM

At first, I thought it's really stupid idea 'cause I've never doubt about the existence of soul after death in a second for my whole life. But how can I explain or prove my soul is still somewhere even after my current physical form of body doesn't exist?
It's a trick question.

To prove the soul exists after death, you'd need to die and come back. I know that people's heart and other organs have stopped and returned to life after a length of time, which makes sense to me to be a reasonable definition of that. But the ONLY attitude I've ever seen expressed by the modern scientific Western view, is that if you do die, and you're dead for seconds, weeks, months, or years, and then you do come back to life, that you HAD to have been alive all along. So it seems to me that our society's view is that it's impossible for someone to die and come back, and if really happens, then it must be an illusion. So no matter what the evidence, for or against, the hypothesis that souls don't exist after death is NOT falsifiable, and that means you can't prove it's not, and you can't prove it is.

However, oddly enough, I just watched an interview of Carl Jung from 1959. The interviewer decided to ask him about the soul. I seem to recall that he did believe that the soul exists after death. Sure, that doesn't mean you have to agree with him. Take of it what you will.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 9
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 7:29:34 PM
You could promise your friend to contact him or her after your own death with some information that only the two of you would know.

The caveat to this is that there seems to be a limited amount of things that a disembodied soul can do in this world. So you might want to contact a person who contacts dead people on a regular basis -- before -- you are dead to get some advice about what kind of signals come through the best from the "other side."

For instance, people report a sense of coldness in a spot where "apparitions" seem to display. And most "communication" is more associational/relational and symbolic than with concrete words.

The other caveat is that you would have to die first....

The only other "proof" is for your friend to experiment themselves with things that might lead to an awareness of their soul or other's souls. For instance, to live, for a while, "as if" the soul existed, and see if that changes things for him/her. The evidence is in their own personal experience, but they then would not be able to "prove it" to anyone else, either, leaving you both in the same boat of not having any consistent, scientific, "proof" to offer to others.
 lsdime
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 12
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:16:21 PM

There is no scientific proof that a soul exists that is accepted by mainstream science.


no, there is just no scientific proof.
 lsdime
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 13
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:18:20 PM

hi.. there is faith, there are witnesses, there is a Written Account and there is Living Truth, proof beyond proof.... I do not have even one speck of doubt that the soul ceases to exist in death ..when Jesus comes in the skies He raises the souls of the saints to Eternal Life ... when He comes back to earth the 3rd time He raises the evil souls for Eternal death


and then a giant pink unicorn will fly through the air, showering Big Macs on us while we bathe in gigantic tubs of peach yogurt......i have not even one speck of doubt about this....
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 14
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/29/2009 5:21:21 AM

How can you prove soul exists after death?

How can you prove the soul exists BEFORE death?
Like God, a soul has to have a consistent definition before any questions about it can even be asked.
For instance, if a soul is breath, the question becomes "How can you prove breathing continues after death?"
 Sunsation1
Joined: 7/8/2009
Msg: 16
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:40:59 AM
There is no proof, and if someone wants to believe that their soul goes on forever and it helps them deal with their eventual death, what is wrong with that?? If believeing that pick unicorns..etc, if it helps them get through life with a smile on their face..great.

A person has to decide for themselves their values and beliefs, and whatever they are..what does it matter with others believe??
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 22
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:56:25 PM
Well, you could die, and if your soul continues to exist, you'd at least have proven it to yourself. Otherwise, you can't.
 Sunsation1
Joined: 7/8/2009
Msg: 24
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:30:13 PM
To those questioning whether there is life after death, of if your soul lives forever...What if there was no restriction on how you lived your life today, would it change you?? What if there were restrictions on those that could have life after death..would it change you today and cause you to live differently??
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 25
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:44:28 PM

NerdStatus, it's all bogus? No offense, but you're not authorized to make such a statement. Don't make false claims, cross-check your sources, because the documentation is in fact out there. You're disqualified on the grounds of not being an informed individual.


Wait a minute. He has just as much a right to say that ghosts, ESP, souls and space aliens living in the White House is crap as you do to say that it isn't. Back in the 1970s, it was very common for universities to study the paranormal. You had college courses on clairvoyance and people with PhDs doing government-funded studies. All those studies showed was that it's all crap.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 36
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/19/2009 4:18:27 AM

How can you prove soul exists after death?

It wouldn't constitute proof, but if I woke up dead one day, I'd consider it pretty strong evidence that there might be something to the hypothesis.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 38
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/19/2009 2:11:54 PM
Sure, energy can't be created or destroyed... but it CAN be organized. It can be said that our personalities are organized energy patterns moving around our brains.

Assuming that's the case, the question becomes whether or not those patterns remain organized after death... or does the energy randomize and lose the patterns, thereby losing what makes us us.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 39
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/20/2009 4:40:24 PM

How can you prove (the) soul exists after death?

I think the trick is proving it BEFORE death; nobody's managed to yet.
After death it's pretty easy. All you gotta do is watch yourself being buried and you have sufficient evidence to draw a conclusion.
If, on the other hand you are unaware of the dirt being thrown on top of you...
 Twill348
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 40
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/20/2009 8:06:42 PM
You need to define life, then death, then soul.

But some reasoning can help.

For decades now, scientists have been trying to create life, by mixing up all the crap on the planet millions of years ago is a tube, then waiting for a politician to come crawling out.

It ain't worked.

It could be, that there is more to this life thing, than just chemistry. Something we don't know about. Just a thought.

You know, just because one may survive death, does not mean happy happy joy joy. All the communication with the dead so far, shows them to be in a state of brainless, babbling idiocy, and that's on a good day.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 41
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:16:25 PM

For decades now, scientists have been trying to create life, by mixing up all the crap on the planet millions of years ago is a tube, then waiting for a politician to come crawling out.

It ain't worked.

Oh it worked all right; it just worked differently than expected. Once the scientists realized that the progression of evolution was toward higher forms of life, they started with politicians and watched them develop into primordial slime.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 48
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:08:45 PM

assuming as you did that life does exist after death

That isn't what he assumed. His proof was how one could prove life after death IF there was any. It wasn't a proof that there was. It was a bit "loosey goosey" for a class in logic, but then he didn't get an A+ for it either, probably because of that.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 50
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:44:20 PM

In other words, objectivity is an illusion, and only a shared subjectivty. There then is no need for a 'matrix' simply because reality is formed through our perception.

It can get a LOT wierder than that...
We have NO IDEA what "being alive" means. For all we know, we live as virtual software, running in the nth level of a series of nested virtual realities, each one being even less similar to "actual" reality than the next higher one up. Instead of asking ourselves what might not reflect the "real reality" we should be asking ourselves what does (if anything at all). If it is disconcerting to find that your entire illusion of life is just a series of sequentially executed instructions not unlike the apparent flow of marquee lights at a theatre, that have the (optical) illusion of movement, then welcome to the club. I have never been able to create an argument with sufficient force of reason to suggest the situation might be otherwise. The BEST I could ever do was "Nah...Can't be!"
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 52
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/25/2009 8:57:45 PM
they would have an objective view of our reality (more than we would) and be in a better place to define our reality in a more complete sense.

We are very near (or may have already arrived?) at a point where we could add several more levels to the "nested realities" conjecture. we may soon find ourselves int the position of the extra-dimensional aliens you mention. I confess I find it amusing that we think we exist in some "real" n dimensional space, when we may in fact be no more than dimensionless abstractions with only an illusion of the lives we seem to value so highly. Maybe we are just a fancy game of "life."
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 58
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/29/2009 3:31:57 AM
although everything still exists, it does not necessarily exist as a 'whole' unit

...Much as a raindrop "ceases to exist" when it falls back into the ocean.

Our biggest problem is knowing enough of ourselves to see ourselves as a drop falling toward a great ocean, but having no idea what happens when we hit except that we cease to be a drop. Since that's what we think we are, we make up myths of our "existence" continuing as drops of oil that won't mix with the water. I think we'd all be a lot better off if we could just admit that we are really just water waiting to be reclaimed by the ocean and scrap the "drop" stuff altogether.
 etjusticepourtous
Joined: 9/18/2009
Msg: 59
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/29/2009 3:46:18 AM
have you seen the anime evangelion? that happens in the end of the series the human race becomes one.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 60
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/29/2009 3:50:53 AM
the human race becomes one.

I'm hoping that we can find the presence of mind to realize that's what we are to begin with. We currently maintain an illusion of separateness.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 62
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How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/29/2009 2:12:48 PM
To quote a great comic: ( http://xkcd.com/659/ )

"When you take apart a Lego® house and mix it back into the bin, where does the house go?"
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 64
How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/29/2009 8:20:28 PM
Did anyone else's head just explode with the hypocritical irony of Monalee's statement?

Sorry...I wasn't paying attention to it. I'm too preoccupied, waiting for the Big Macs to arrive.
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