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 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 2
Am I wrong?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I think you need to follow your heart on this one. If it feels right, doing things the way you are, then you need to continue doing it. If you think you need to go after the support, then do it.

In this situation though, it sounds like you can write him off as not wanting anything to do with you guys, and it would just make him resent the baby if you do go after the support.

It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

If I were you, I would continue on the way you are and just let the support go.
 Elmenreich
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 3
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Posted: 11/5/2009 3:34:14 PM
First you have to decide if he's someone you want in your child's life. I'd lean toward asking for support unless he's some sort of psychopath or drug addict.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 5
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Posted: 11/5/2009 4:02:14 PM
While I admire the fact that you don't want to take the money from him and you are supporting your daughter, I think you would do your daughter a better service by seeking support and squirrelling it away for her post secondary education. After all, it's extremely difficult to give her everything that she'll need and even want, and ensure that there's the option of her graduating with a good degree and very little or no debt...

It's not so much a question of responsibility on his part, but a question of securing a better future for your daughter than what you can on your own... life is dynamic... you never know what's around the next corner.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 8
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Posted: 11/6/2009 12:32:36 PM

While I admire the fact that you don't want to take the money from him and you are supporting your daughter, I think you would do your daughter a better service by seeking support and squirrelling it away for her post secondary education. After all, it's extremely difficult to give her everything that she'll need and even want, and ensure that there's the option of her graduating with a good degree and very little or no debt...

It's not so much a question of responsibility on his part, but a question of securing a better future for your daughter than what you can on your own... life is dynamic... you never know what's around the next corner.

I agree with this 100% as well as with Navigator's comments. If you won't need it for college, she has a nest egg to buy a house or just have that security that should the bottom ever fall out of her life, she has that to lean on. You never know what could happen, she could find herself a young single mother and knowing that she would have that money to help support them without having to turn to you for it could be a huge thing, and that is only one scenario.

I can understand your attitude about him not seeing her but one thing that might be helpful particularly in the event that he does dig his head out of his ass and want to see his child, is that it isn't personal. You see it as a rejection of this wonderful little being that you love more than you thought you could ever love anybody but he doesn't know her so he also doesn't know what he has missed, the good stuff in addition to the midnight feedings. Even if it is a little late in the game, she will be much better off if she does have contact with her father because for some kids, it just remains a hole, no matter how full of love and people their life is.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 13
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Posted: 11/8/2009 11:11:54 AM

However, on the down side you have to consider how your daughter is going to react to the situation when she is old enough to really/truly understand what is going on and the decisions you've made.

This is something that I really didn't consider, whether the child would at some point, even if you haven't struggled, resent the fact that you didn't pursue child support. A child could easily embrace the attitude that if he wasn't going to be bothered to be in her/his life, he should at least have made the financial contribution he committed to when he had unprotected or unsuccessfully protected sex regardless of how said child wound up on the planet, i.e. in a marriage, committed cohab or something else.

OP, my comments were not designed to prod you to do anything or in any way criticize your thinking. More along the lines of your thinking in terms of the anger that is there, and rightfully so, but I have figured out over the years that even when you don't think about things much, it does matter how you think about them. I understand your repost
and why you feel that way but thinking about it in those terms, no matter how infrequently, isn't a good thing for you and realistically what is highly personal to you isn't personal to him. Doesn't make it right, but that is the reality. My mother is a piece of work, I have managed to create a balance for myself in dealing with her as little as possible but working toward not even bothering to have negative thoughts about her is something that is ongoing with me.

You don't need the money, and that's a good thing but life can change on a dime and I think you would be better off to funnel child support into an account and have it as a resource than to let it go. I became really ill 2 1/2 years ago and very nearly died. I was weak as a puppy and between correcting the atrophy from two months in bed and unscrambling my brains, our financial situation was not good. I worked as much as I could but there were times when that wouldn't have been anywhere near enough to support me let alone three kids. I felt awful the first month I was home from the hospital because my kids stayed with a family from church because I couldn't care for them but I still received the child support. My ex who is not a particularly nice person told me not to worry about it because I still had to maintain their home even if they weren't in it.

My point is that you have no crystal ball. So whether the child support would create a nest egg for education, buying a home, or just a fund to dip into when unexpected bills arise, there really isn't a downside to pursuing the child support unless he is the type of person to be vindictive and someone you would not want around your child because he was a poor influence rather than being too stupid to be a dad from the get go. Something could happen to you to make it difficult or impossible to care for your daughter financially the way that you should or would like to, none of us are immune from the curve balls that life throws at us. Better to have money there and not need it than to need it and have no resource.

To an extent, with the stage of life I am in with the first child off to college, in the fall, child support will be taking a sort of different role in the next few years with child number 2 three years behind his sister in terms of college, and the tot, four years behind his brother.

My ex will not help with college, period, he will be a non-entity. I do believe he will toss my daughter some money on an irregular basis to help with expenses, a little spending money, probably nothing more dramatic than $20 to $50 but she and I will both appreciate it. Realistically, it isn't going to mean squat compared to higher education costs which I think at even a state university are around $40k for the four years and regular expenses like gas, insurance, etc. If the kids decide to go to a private school, tuition is trending toward $20-40K a year or more.

The child support being paid on my youngest son when my daughter and older son will be receiving no child support will help me to do whatever is necessary during that time to support all three kids and facilitate them achieving their aspirations. I hope during the next eight years to be back where I was before I became ill so that by the time the child support does stop I can still get all three kids successfully out of college and be able to support myself and put more money away for retirement when I am done with the financial aspect of the parenting gig, which will realistically be at least 12 years.



Many single parents rue the day they awoke the sleeping dog and sought child support......

If their motivation for seeking support was based solely on what is best for their child/children, then there would be no reason to rue anything. They would be remiss in their responsibilities as parents to not want to do what is in their children's best interest. Your statement would be more accurate if it included the word vindictive in front of single parents.


Not all parents who rue the day are vindictive. Some of them realized the partner they selected to have a child with was in no way a good influence on the said child. Perhaps they disagree with the lifestyle choices made by the other parent now that there is an innocent child involved.....before child, going out every night, drinking and partying might have seemed like a good idea but after child, not so much. They changed as a result of their child...but the other parent has not. The other parent is not reliable or trustworthy enough to care for a pet much less raise an impressionable human being.....just saying it is the responsibility of all parents to protect their child, to nurture and guide them.....to do anything less they would be remiss in their duties and responsibilities as a parent.

Have to agree with Itsallin here. It is a bit naive to believe that the relationship with the other parent is always a good thing just as it is unrealistic to expect that someone will have some wonderful relationship with a bio parent he seeks out because he was adopted; this may or may not occur in either scenario.

From the way the OP has described the father of her child, I don't think he would be the type of person she would want to keep out of her child's life and as she has stated, she would facilitate a relationship if he expressed interest, she just isn't going to spend any time trying to interest him, which is quite understandable.

Certainly if the man were a known danger to the child and hadn't as Itsallin mentioned, changed on becoming a parent, the advice on this thread would be totally different. Stfu and go about your life rather than put your child at risk.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 15
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Posted: 11/8/2009 9:39:11 PM

None of this has to do with child support. Who cares if one parent is a party pig and a bad influence on the child/children?? That would be a custody issue.

Well, I don't know what world you live in but in most places, the custody and child support are separate, i.e. visitation can't be denied because of child support just like child support cannot be eliminated by lack of visitation but only voluntarily signing away parental rights. In seeking the child support, if someone has reason to believe that their child would be better off without the other parent in their life because they were a bad influence, etc. seeking the child support sometimes results in the sleeping dog waking up and insisting on visitation. Proving that the parent is a problem is not always easy, and I think this is what Itsallin is getting at.

I worked with a guy who was in a horrible situation. The ex-wife was an alcoholic but no one even the extended family knew that she was a complete drunk and not only a poor influence and a mom who had no clue what the girl was doing but potentially a real danger to the girl. He tried everything he could do legally to try to get custody of his daughter. I have a friend right now who won't leave his wife for the same reason, he might not get custody of the kids and wouldn't be sure that totally removing them from mom would be the right thing to do but leaving them alone with her even though they are teens is totally out of the question because she is pass out level drunk every night.

Now again, this situation is not what is described by the OP and her seeking the child support is not going to trigger anything that is undesirable with the exception that he may want to see his child, which again she won't prevent or make difficult, but she really wants to punch him in the face, I would. How one feels and what he/she does are two different things. She wants nothing from the man and her child needs nothing; what she was asking was whether she is somehow doing her child a disservice by not pursuing child support when she does not need it to support the child.

Somehow, this thread seems to have become quite derailed, perhaps I contributed to it, but I think her question has been adequately answered at this point and even the question in general philosophically considering whether there is a downside to seeking child support and for some people there definitely is. I was talking to someone yesterday because one of the moms from the football team is spiraling out of control emotionally because of her kids, custody, etc. Her ex fought for and got custody not because he really wanted the children, but because he didn't want her to have them. Some men, when child support is sought will not only demand visitation, again normally a good thing, but may also decide well if I am paying child support I'm going to have custody, and if they have the means to procure good legal services, they may get it.

It's not an issue that has one right response, each situation is different and the motives of the parties may be different. I was married to the father of my children and he lived in the house with them the first 12 years of my daughter's life and it still upsets me that he won't go to my daughter's concerts and recitals and has to pretty much be goaded into going to any of the boy's football games. My daughter doesn't know whether it will be worse to have her dad at her graduation or for him to not go, wonderful situation for a kid for something that is supposed to be a big happy milestone. I get the way the OP feels about her ex and why she feels he doesn't deserve to be a part of his kid's life. Again, what she feels and what she would do if he expresses an interest are two different things, just like they are for most of us.

I would love to beat the ever loving crap out of my ex for the way he has and still treats his kids but instead I try to be as cordial and flexible as possible and encourage my children to take the high road when they would rather be petty.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 16
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Posted: 11/9/2009 7:34:00 AM
But I think you are also still missing my point which is that sometimes seeking child support when it will result in the involvement of a person that one would rather not have around FOR GOOD REASON, is a mistake.

I think we are really talking about two different things because I think women or men that keep the other parent away from their children just to be spiteful or vindictive are wrong but there are many instances when people are perhaps stupid themselves until they have the child and it changes them. Or they meet the person and it is a slow slide into realizing that they are totally insane and a horrible influence on your children.

I have struggled with whether my kids are better off spending time with their dad because he is in short a **stard that continues to be verbally and emotionally abusive to his kids. Would they be better off if he was not constantly telling them crap like with my daughter from the time she was 8, she would be pregnant by the time she was 15. With my son, if he didn't act right he would be in prison being but f-ed by Bubba. Would it be less hurtful for him to be totally out of their lives rather than knowing he doesn't want to go to their games or concerts? Because of their ages I can talk to my kids about it and find out if they wish to continue spending time with their dad and we go from there.

There are a lot of people that think I am wrong for allowing my ex to spend time with his kids rather than seeking out supervised visitation or no visitation. That is just the emotionally dangerous. There are people that are also physically dangerous and you cannot tell me that the courts are conscientious about figuring this out because I know of many, many people that have to surrender their children to another parent they fear because the courts won't stop visitation. So yes, there are instances when it is better for you to forego the child support rather than invite potential tragedy of some sort into your child's life, having realized how stupid you were to invite it into your own.

When I said the thread got off topic I meant in terms of harping on something that seems unrelated to the OP. She will not prevent her child and the father developing a relationship should he express interest. She tried to encourage his involvement early on but realized that she can't make him be a father and consequently because of his behavior she doesn't think he deserves to know his child. So what? I think my ex doesn't deserve to know his children either and he is the main reason why my daughter will probably go 1000 miles away to school because she wants to get away from him.

She is not foregoing the child support to keep him out of their lives, she just doesn't feel that she needs it, different things. In her case, I think if she does pursue child support it may make his child more real for him and hopefully he will take an interest in his child, which is again, entirely different from what you are talking about.
 4UMaybe
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 17
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Posted: 11/9/2009 3:44:18 PM
Seems like you and your daughter are happy with the way things are...why change it?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 23
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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:11:25 PM
[OP, the more you post, the more it sounds like maybe you have some regrets & a little anger towards this guy. So, you've gone out of your way to not go out of your way to facilitate a father/daughter relationship. IDK, seems a little selfish to me...]

So unfair, navigator! It is not up to her to "go out of the way" to make the father of her child have a relationship with the child! The only selfish one, as the situation is portrayed, is the father.

To me, it seem as if she is unsure whether she is denying her child something that is rightfully hers, and, imo, she is. However, the potential ensuing drama/trauma may well not be worth it.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 24
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Posted: 11/10/2009 10:18:17 PM
[OP, the more you post, the more it sounds like maybe you have some regrets & a little anger towards this guy. So, you've gone out of your way to not go out of your way to facilitate a father/daughter relationship. IDK, seems a little selfish to me...]

So unfair, navigator! It is not up to her to "go out of the way" to make the father of her child have a relationship with the child! The only selfish one, as the situation is portrayed, is the father.

To me, it seem as if she is unsure whether she is denying her child something that is rightfully hers, and, imo, she is. However, the potential ensuing drama/trauma may well not be worth it.

That having been said, OP, I disagree that you can be a good person & a bad father, at ;east as far as taking responsibility goes. A good person does the right thing; if you are not "cut out" to be a parent, then at least be financially responsible. A "good person" does not shirk their responsibilities, does not hurt those whom they should care for, and yes, you certainly SHOULD care for those who you are responsible for bringing into the world. A good person "steps up", makes sacrifices, and admits fault. But the character of your ex is not mine to judge. Do whatever you feel comfortable with.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 25
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Posted: 11/11/2009 5:53:55 AM
Navigator, you are king of the assumptions on this thread, aren't you?

Most people would perhaps grasp the fact that people don't have all of the information they have in hindsight going into things. My ex was a very different father with my stepson I suspect because he didn't see him that much. When we married, he appeared to be a good father, I was too young to realize that children love their parents the way my stepson loved his father even when they aren't the greatest parents on the planet. But how exactly when he didn't say the type of crap he has said to mine to my stepson and when he was willing to drive 150 miles, rent a room and go see a football game would I know that he would not drive around the corner the three blocks to the grade school to see his youngest son in a Christmas program that lasted a whole whopping 30 minutes?

To also assume that I have taken no steps to protect my children you derive from where exactly? Their father no longer lives here, that was step one in protecting them. My daughter was worried they wouldn't see him at all when we split so I have tried to balance access with acceptable and unacceptable behavior. He is a railroad engineer so he isn't around all that much and if he is acting like an asshat he doesn't see the children. Unless someone is going to keep a roll of duct tape handy, you cannot stop someone from making stupid comments. You CAN hang up the phone or tell him to leave the house, etc. which is what we do.

My kids have always had the option of not seeing their father. They have not chosen to exercise that option because they would rather have their dad in their lives than not. They know, because they have said as much themselves the last time we discussed it, if there was court ordered supervised visitation their dad would behave when he had to and revert to behavior later so they choose to deal with the parent they are stuck with yes, at my poor choosing. Feel better? Their father is mentally ill, they know that as well and hope that some day he might seek treatment and enjoy spending time with him when he's not acting like a douche, when he is, they simply ignore him.

As far as my daughter feeling safe in her home, that has nothing to do with it. She simply doesn't want to deal with her father on a regular basis, period. She is torn between wanting to get away from him and not having to cater to his idiocy to keep the peace and not being here with me and her brothers.

My parents never divorced so I had no choice about living with my mom who in her own way is just as horrid as my ex. I have chosen to set boundaries and keep her in our lives but that is also why I live 1000 miles away from home. My children will likely do the same with their father, set the boundaries and navigate things accordingly.


No, it's not. This is what I've been saying. OP knows that if she seeks support, that more than likely this "good man" WILL want to be a part of his daughter's life - which would be a great thing for her daughter. Yet, she refuses to "go out of her way" to facilitate any of it. Again, from where I sit, that's a pretty selfish way to be.

Do you ever read? She did try to encourage a relationship with the father but how long exactly is she supposed to keep trying to get him to want to be a father? She has no idea whether seeking support will change anything in his behavior and I don't believe she is foregoing the support to prevent that eventuality from occurring.

From what she has written, she doesn't need the money and consequently hadn't really considered seeking it but after reading threads, talking to people, etc. she wondered if this was a poor choice. Sounds like a good mother to me and I too agree that someone can be a good person and a bad parent just as others have noted that someone can be a good person and a bad spouse, a good person but not a good employee. Sometimes good people have stupid moments that last quite a while. This man is a good man but is too stupid to know what he is missing or perhaps he is a good man that is just not hard wired to be a parent.

It is funny, sooo many people b!tch on here about child support and how people seeking it are bad, they should just support the kid themselves and stfu. This woman isn't doing anything horrible, just something that is perhaps unwise because it fails to prepare for something unforeseen and also as has been noted a gazillion times, that money can be a nest egg for the child. Do you really think that what you have said and the way you have chosen to say it will do anything to prompt her to seek child support? The first couple of posts were valuable in this regard. Once you began denigrating the OP for breathing, you pretty much lost the ability to positively impact her decisions at all so what exactly is the point of all of your rants?
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 28
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Posted: 11/13/2009 7:08:01 AM
To the statement that a bad father can be a good man.

If he is trying to be a good father and just isn't, yes he can be concidered a good man but A man who has a kid and won't even try to be a fahter to him/her then "no" he's not a good man. He's just a loser IMO.
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