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 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 1
Men and self esteemPage 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Hello gang. I've got a question. I was watching TV last night and saw a Dove Soap commercial

Here is the url

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHX6frPHpQo

The name of the commercial is "girls are under pressure." In the commercial if you've not seen it or don't want to watch it, the commercial shows pics of beautiful women. All being watched by a young girl maybe at most 7 years old. Then it states women are under more and more pressure and how Dove has created workshops to help these young girls believe in themselves that they are beautiful.

Now this is not about the self esteem problems in women, we've all seen on TV and real life what women do to try and stay beautiful. {FACT} I am not saying this against women so don't misinterpret my post.

But what about the guys? Aren't there self esteem problems in men? Just like in a way, imo, the commercial is saying that not every little girl is going to grow up to be like the images on the TV screen but she should still consider herself beautiful. So in stating that, not every little boy is going to grow up with 6 pack abs and look like the main character in Twilight. There is going to be guys out there that are going to be made fun of wither they are a nerd, geek, shy, nice guy etc. There are going to be guys that are people are going to call homosexual (pc term, the real term people will use is much meaner.) just because they don't have a girl friend. They could not have a girl friend because they are shy or just because they want to concentrate on there education and future but the other people will knock there self esteem and call them names.

Are there commercials about trying to improve the same self esteem issues in boys? If there is someone enlighten me. I'm sure there is books and blogs but not mainstream like a commercial would be.

So in closing let me ask one more time what about the guys?

Best of luck to everyone

Edit: I'm not sure this is the right place to post this I put it here because I know this section is a popular one being the 1st one on the list. Sorry to the mods if it is the wrong place. If it is please feel free to place it in the right forum thanks
 kjacks31
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 2
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:03:48 AM
Men have self esteem issues, yes. The big difference is, however, that the US is still a primarily male-dominated society. Women are facing pressure from men, other women, family and media. Lose weight, be more beautiful, dress certain ways, have larger breasts, be submissive, etc etc etc. I don't agree with most of this crap, but it's out there.

Men tend to face self esteem issues primarily from other men, much from competition, and from relationships. These are all general statements, but women do indeed face more social pressure than men do, which is the point of the commercials.

A good example is porn. Love it or hate it, it's a good thing to point at. Men in porn can be fat, thin, bald, hairy, clean cut or trashy. The women tend to fit a small handful of stereotypes.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 3
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:04:36 AM
It's an interesting question and I think it deals with the things that are more available to boys, like sports programs, that do build self-esteem not related to looks. And in the media, look at the number of unattractive leading men in comparison to leading ladies, it is way skewed, so boys are shown I think pretty early that they can use other things to get the same stuff (women) that good looking men can.

I think what maybe you are getting at is are there commercials about building the self-esteem in boys that may not have a talent like sports or music. I think because there are more positive messages to men in general, this need is not as evident because generally you don't hear of boys getting into relationships that are bad for them and unable to break away because they have tied their self worth to getting a chick.

I also think that geekiness is now fashionable so if you are remotely normal and a boy or have some sort of a geeky thing going like computers, video games, whatever, you do have positive role models whereas for the average girl that maybe isn't gorgeous and doesn't seem to fit in anywhere, there are fewer places to look.

I think on the positive side of the media, while people are still too focused on looks, etc. some of the characters that have played lead roles in movies primarily geared for teens aren't always the uber beautiful. They have I think made it more fashionable to be average or even odd.
 RefinedRogue
Joined: 10/20/2009
Msg: 4
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:09:21 AM
Men get conflicting messages:

Man up!
Women want NiceGuys(tm)
You're a bumbling fool (a message most sit coms and far too many TV commercials)
You're nothing if you're not financially successful
Be yourself (thanks Mom, but you're wrong)
Get in touch with your feelings
Be strong and don't show your feelings
If you don't settle down, you're a loser
Get married
Don't get married
Don't be a doormat
Be picky but don't be afraid of commitment

The list goes on.

The advice I give younger men is to follow their brains, not their hearts. Watch what women do before you listen to what they say. Don't be afraid of commitment to a woman of quality, just be careful about the laws of marriage. Treat others as you have yourself be treated. Work on yourself before you even attempt a serious relationship.
 TiltAGirl
Joined: 9/12/2009
Msg: 5
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:14:09 AM
I think kjacks has a very good grasp of the differences in how men and women are effected by the society we are raised in although in the last couple of decades I think there has been more pressure placed on men to attain unrealistic physical ideals, as well as little tolerance for men who are 'weak' (ie: emotional)

I think it's unfortunate for both genders that we have a society that allows media and advertising to define ideals when these ideals are based on profit for companies that prey on people's insecurities. It's like we've abdicated defining our own values and let commercial enterprises do it for us. I have the feeling they don't have our best interests at heart.
 Tim198227
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 6
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:20:23 AM
I think there are definate issues with male self esteem. But I dont think it comes from looking like the twilight guys, but more from not having or making enough money.

Myself, I try to look the best I can with my own personal style, but for the most part Ive found I dont really care if people like my appearance or not. In high school I cared, but not so much anymore.
Ive found that with me and alot of my friends the issues come from being able to provide. I dont make alot, I cant live on my own, I help support my siblings and the people I like with. Its symbiotic. They also help me. But the thing Im getting at is since 2005 ive only dated 3 women, ive been involved with 5 total. All of them ended because I cant support myself (And when I say support myself, I mean have a house of my own, not rent. Not an Apartement I rent with room mates. A house that I own). Forget the fact they couldnt support themselves, or that I was trying to better myself, or that ive finally decided to go back to school.
Its things like that, that hurt my self esteem, and has hurt the self esteem of the guys I know who for one reason or another arent making tons of money.

I feel the same about materialistic things as I do about looks. Guys have no right to hound a women about her looks if he isnt going to take care of himself, and women have no right to expect financially from a man what she cant or wont get for herself alone.
 Magillicudy
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 7
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:20:41 AM
I figure when little boys and men alike start using cosmetics and it's widely accepted socially, as well as moisturizing soaps and creams, you'll have the commercials to support their 'inner beauty'.

You're in a male led society (right or wrong, it is) where two women together is OK by the masses, but two men together still causes dry heaves in over 50% of men who are straight. For some reason, I just don't see large social acceptance of commercials which promote the 'inner beauty' of young boys. The closed-minded will automatically revert to a 10 year jump ahead and an image of the same young boy in drag or blowing the family Priest.

Now, society would accept plenty of commercials about boys not doing so well at T-ball or football, and it being ok. There are a lot of commercials I've seen that are geared to make children of both genders feel ok about being who they are, without all the social pressures. Promoting the 'inner beauty' of young boys just isn't one of them.

If only 'freedom' truly meant free from persecution, and the closed-minded evolved into more tolerant people, the world would be a better place.

After reading a few of the other posts that I'd skipped over, I understand completely what you're saying. Social pressures and images are all commercialized to make money, but it does prey upon the ego of both young men and women. Unfortunately, as long as they keep making multi-billions of dollars with these ploys, suicide rate will stay on the uprise and counselors and psychologists will have a full card.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 8
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:25:15 AM

So in closing let me ask one more time what about the guys?

We're a feminacentric society, obsessed to the point of neurosis about the well-being of women.

Men don't matter. They're expendable, and so no one hardly much cares if they have self-esteem issues. They can die sooner, suffer more on-the-job deaths, more violent crime, and more suicide, but it doesn't hardly register on the societal radar screen -- unless maybe it affects some woman and/or her kids.
 Juste moi Danielle
Joined: 7/8/2009
Msg: 9
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:26:58 AM
I haven't seen the commercial - I have read some reviews/critics and seen pictures of it...meh...those women are still beautiful...it's like going to a catalogue or magazine to try to see what the average older man or woman looks like by looking at the "mature" fashion models - hint, they are STILL models.

It's rare that you'll see a NOT height/weight proportionate larger male or female model in magazines/the media or an African American woman or man with her/his natural curly hair.... bleh meh blah....a rose by any other name is still a rose and while some smell nicer than others, it still smells like a rose - it's just more of the same, albeit all wrapped up a new and improved "appeal to emotion" package ie: oh look at us WE care won't you buy us and blow your hard earned money on us (because WE care remember? ) so we can feed you better and bigger bullshyte next time and take more money from you because we care remember?



Edit...


Men don't matter. They can die sooner, suffer more on-the-job deaths, more violent crime, and more suicide, but it doesn't hardly register on the societal radar screen - unless maybe it affects some woman and/or her kids.


Seriously (and with respect), that cross you're carrying sounds awfully heavy...why don't you lay it down for a while and see how good it feels to be free ?

Try it, you'll like it I promise.





 Gone To The Beach 09
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 10
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:27:29 AM
" This is a moment that I deeply wish my parents could have lived to share. My father would have enjoyed what you have so generously said of me-and my mother would have believed it. " LBJ

A lot of what a man thinks and does has a direct connection with his Father. And that is THE biggest challenge that some men face in their lifetime.. even after their father has long since passed away.
 RefinedRogue
Joined: 10/20/2009
Msg: 11
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:36:29 AM
"These young men then believe that to be a man means to debase and use women. Their only idea of what it means to be a man comes from very negative role models who abandon their wives and kids, cheat, lie and hurt others, and act in selfish self centered dishonest ways toward their loved ones."

While cynical, there is an element of truth here.

I would argue that this type of behavior is far too often rewarded by young women who pursue (or willingly give themselves) the type of men who are like this. This is classic BadBoy(tm) stuff and until such men are shunned by young women, those BadBoys will continue running amok.

It is said that it is the responsibility of women to tame the men. But it seems as if women really don't like tame men.

OK, queue up the Plenty of Fish All Female Choir with their favorite rendition of "But I'm Not Like That!" [please excuse my facetiousness]
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 12
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:36:55 AM
Just because there isn't a Dove commercial for boys you think that boys don't receive encouragement? What about the Boy Scouts or little league or the boys and girls clubs or all the organizations for kids that the NBA Cares Program helps?
 ToughLuv1984
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 13
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:39:42 AM
How many guys are manorexic? Really...

Yes, there is a lot of pressure on people to look good.

But don't try to make this a pity party competition... ya'll already lost that one long ago.

Truth is, even though there are a lot of figures that are hard for men to live up to... its a lot easier for a schlubby guy to make it in Hollywood than a schlubby female.

Look at Jack Black. He is a lil' troll. No way the female equivalent would have a career. Not in a million years.

Or Transformers.... Shia Lebouf looks like a lil geek... yet he is paired up with Megan Fox? Bit mismatched no?

The real disservice the media is doing is telling awkward looking guys they can get perfect 10s.

For women its always the 'makeover' story. There is no Cinderfella stories about a ugly guy being turned into a handsome one.

Also, porn allows the headless guy to have any number of bodies from totally ripped to a Ron Jeremy-esque hairy man-pregnancy. Yet the women must always be a bottle blonde barbie with an impossibly small waist and fake boobs.
 Gone To The Beach 09
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 14
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:39:47 AM
" Men don't matter. They can die sooner, suffer more on-the-job deaths, more violent crime, and more suicide, but it doesn't hardly register on the societal radar screen - unless maybe it affects some woman and/or her kids."

It's tough being a man. Quite often, being the provider, and in times like these, worried about his job, and what could happen if his job were gone tomorrow. It can and often does wear on one's self esteem. And we seek comfort in vices that we know are bad for us.

" I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the day he killed himself. "
Johnny Carson
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 15
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:47:21 AM

Seriously (and with respect), that cross you're carrying sounds awfully heavy...

Thanks for illustrating in knee-jerk, textbook fashion how important facts (to men, at least) always fail to make it onto the radar screen, how the subject always gets changed when they're brought up in an attempt to make them go away.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 16
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:51:07 AM
There have been male identity programs in the past--Iron John, Promise Keepers, etc.

the sad fact is, there's a lot of money to be made by putting people on edge. You get a consumer on edge, you move them to action. If a person is comfortable, then they don't overbuy. they only get what they really need.

So, trying to tell people they aren't what they should be, that you sell a product that can make them be that...its a time-proven way to separate people from their cash, which in turns create jobs by expanding a business.

On a side note, its interesting how Twilight is being noticed as promoting abusive relationships as something desireable. The bf who stalks, who causes violence but the violence is rationalized away, etc.

Back to the point: educating, unfortunately, is being left to advertising. and many forms of entertainment also include advertising. It should be done by example, but many parents grew up in the Me generation..and so they really don't know, either.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 17
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:53:27 AM
While i won't argue that the pressures are the same, I will say marginalizing men won't win you any help to fix anything.

I mean read this shit.


Look at Jack Black. He is a lil' troll. No way the female equivalent would have a career. Not in a million years.


Hmmmz, in about .02 seconds of thought. Roseanne Barr, Rosie O'donnell, Kathy Bates. I could go on....


For women its always the 'makeover' story. There is no Cinderfella stories about a ugly guy being turned into a handsome one.


Thats right, because we all know men can't be helped with makeup.


Also, porn allows the headless guy to have any number of bodies from totally ripped to a Ron Jeremy-esque hairy man-pregnancy. Yet the women must always be a bottle blonde barbie with an impossibly small waist and fake boobs


Honestly this is just retarded as a comparison. Of COURSE the women look like that in PORNOGRAPHY MARKETED TO MEN. Men don't LOOK at the "body" of a guy in porn, know what i'm saying?

Try watching some porn geared to WOMEN. Lots of hardbodies there. So save it, it's tough for everyone.
 Gina-Gina74
Joined: 11/17/2009
Msg: 18
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:53:44 AM
If I may, the American society is far less male dominant then most of the worlds societies. In reality, women are not as pressured these days, far from it. Women are far more independent and no longer are faced with the pressures they once were. The pressures they do experience are now those that were more male dominant responsibility at one time. Home ownership/purchases, professions, etc. They have taken them on without the male.

As for the American male. They have far greater self-esteem issues then ever before. My time on this site has seen that consistently. The confidence of the male has seriously declined while their frustration levels, particularly in relationships, has increased. This site alone has also proved that insight to be true, yet a pattern that has been observed for many years starting around the 1960's.

Now this does not apply to all males, yet it has become the norm.
 Juste moi Danielle
Joined: 7/8/2009
Msg: 19
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:56:57 AM
Thanks for illustrating in knee-jerk, textbook fashion how important facts (to men, at least) always fail to make it onto the radar screen, how the subject always gets changed when they're brought up in an attempt to make them go away.


You're welcome and believe me, there was no knee jerking...however, you are free to interpret my comment any which way you see fit - people normally only see what they want (or are ready) to see.

It's all good. Carry on.





 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 20
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:59:03 AM
You know the government didn't go out and kick men from the home and leave children fatherless. These fathers chose to leave, leaving the children without that support and government programs have been set up to try to shore up that hole left. Sure some women & men use the system, but mostly if a child is fatherless, it's because his/her father left.
 Motto_Bella
Joined: 7/6/2009
Msg: 21
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 10:07:17 AM
OP~

Everyone is born insecure... men/women alike. The challenge is finding a soul (humble) who understands, appreciates and embraces the same philosophy. 'Dove' encourages natural beauty ~ from the inside/out.

None of the men I've ever dated were commercial ad or poster boy material. They embraced who they were and had zero desire to keep up or compete with superficiality. Extremely attractive ... in my natural eyes.
 Gone To The Beach 09
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 22
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 10:35:34 AM
" Children learn what they live.
If their lives are filled with superficiality, uninvolvement in productive pursuits and unrealistic fantasies there is a parent/guardian who laid a poor foundation for the impressionable minds under their charge."

Excellent point, and astute observation!!!

This is EXACTLY right on, and why I cringe when I hear about 2 Married partners ONLY staying together for the sake of the kids. Kids learn and emulate what they have learned by example.

And so, we as men grow up seeing what we thought to be normal behavior... and our parents have done a great job of directly telegraphing us, as to how a healthy relationship IS, between adult man and woman.

As Harry Chapin sang... you know Im gonna be like him
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 23
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Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 10:58:05 AM
Fred Flinstone (overweight) Wilma - A hotty
Homer Simpson (overweight) Marge - A hotty
Family Guy (overweight) Lois - A hotty
The list goes on.. Not to mention the live sitcoms that portray the same couple dynamic..
Where's the 'entertainment' where the wife is overweight and the husband - A hotty??? There aren't any because it's too unbelievable that a handsome man would be with someone who's not society dictated perfect.

The pressure society and the media put on women is far greater than the reverse ..

Fewer men suffer from low self esteem issues because they are given less reason to doubt themselves. and so, the issue of men's low self esteem is addressed less frequently ..
 Gone To The Beach 09
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 24
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 11:14:02 AM
" A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." ~Mae West

It's a lot about CONFIDENCE, which is another way of saying self esteem.
 Gone To The Beach 09
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 25
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 11:23:50 AM
" A man has more character in his face at forty than at twenty--he has suffered longer"

Mae West

Not that women do not suffer. There are trying times, and 1 in 8 people are having trouble feeding themself. Trying to do the right thing... for yourself, your family, and for the future of everyone involved...it can wear on anyone. AND it eventually affects their self esteem.

Even mountains can be slowly worn down.

Attempt to break a man's back often enough, and you will break HIM. Or NOT.
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