Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 1
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
It's a sign of the times, that so-called "Christians" think that it's "Hilarious" to pray for the death of a standing president. Do these people have no sense of shame, or did they forget to read the teachings of Jesus? Does this cross the line of free speech into incitement? Thoughts?

New Right-Wing Craze: Using Bible Quote to Pray That Obama’s 'Days Be Few'
By Amanda Terkel, Think Progress
Posted on November 20, 2009, Printed on November 21, 2009
http://www.alternet.org/story/144098/

The newest far-right craze is an anti-Obama slogan that is making its way onto t-shirts, bumper stickers, mugs, and even teddy bears: “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8,” which reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” The meme is also taking off on Twitter, with conservatives calling it “hilarious.” Commentators have noted that it’s unclear whether the intent is to hope for an end to Obama’s time in office — or an end to his life. But a look at the lines in the rest of the psalm hint at the latter:

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

Diana Butler Bass at Beliefnet explains that Psalm 109 is one of the “imprecatory” prayers, “a lament in the form of petition to destroy one’s enemies.” While perhaps intended to be a joke, she notes that the psalm actually “entreats God to destroy the president”:

It is the personal prayer of an individual, someone who has been dealt an injustice by another–and usually more powerful–person. The words of Psalm 109 are those of deep agony, the longings of a victim for retribution and justice. This psalm is considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms–full of violent images of vengeance and death.

continued at link...
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 2
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 6:51:02 AM
wow.

this certainly exemplifies how sick and twisted the right wing wackos have become.

simple minds led by demented cheerleaders like sarah palin may find this amusing. however, many of them will take this seriously.

and we have enough goofballs in this nation for someone to decide that 'playing god' is their own destiny.

very frightening.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 3
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:22:46 AM
Now putting their campaign in the full context of Psalm 109:8 is "left wing spin"? It's the right that is making the right look as if they are hoping for bad things to befall the president..It's hardly obscure what they are wishing for.

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 4
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 8:31:19 AM
No e..not part of that movement, but it's not hard to comprehend that they DO know the full context in which that scripture is presented.

Frank Schaeffer knows them...He helped found the movement. Here's Frank's take.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/frank-schaeffer-warns-against-latest-threa
MADDOW: Let his days be few and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow. This is such strong language in secular terms about President Obama. Can you tell me if this means something less threatening to people hearing this in a Biblical context?

SCHAEFFER: No actually it means something more threatening. I think that the situation that I find genuinely frightening right now is that you have a ramping up of biblical language, language from the anti-abortion movement, for instance, death panels, and this sort of thing, and what it's coalescing into is branding Obama as Hitler, as they have already called him, as something foreign to our shores -we're reminded of that, he was 'born in Kenya' - as Brown, as Black, above all, as not us. He is Sarah Palin's 'not a real American.'

But now, it turns out, that he joins the ranks of the unjust kings of ancient Israel, unjust rulers, to which all these Biblical allusions are directed, who should be slaughtered, if not by God, then by just men.

So there's a direct parallel here with Timothy McVeigh's T-shirt on the day of the Oklahoma City bombing, in which he said that the 'tree of liberty had to be watered occasionally by the blood of tyrants' and that quote we saw again at a meeting at which Obama was present being carried on a placard by someone carrying a loaded weapon.

What we're looking at right now is two things going on. We see the evangelical groups that I talk about in my new book, 'Patience With God,' enthralled by an apocalyptic vision that I go into in some detail in there. They represent the millions of people who have turned the 'Left Behind' series into best-sellers. Most of them are not crazy, they're just deluded. But there is a crazy fringe to whom all these little messages that have been pouring out of Fox News, now on a bumper sticker, talking about doing away with Obama, asking God to kill him...

Really, this is trawling for assassins. And this is serious business. It's un-American, it's unpatriotic, and it goes to show that the religious right, the Republican far-right, have coalesced into a group that truly wants American revolution, and if it turns out to be blood in the streets and death, so be it. This is not funny stuff any more. They cannot be dismissed as just crazies on the fringe. It only takes one.

You know look at the Boston Globe article a few weeks ago saying that the threat level faced by the Secret Service has gone up 400% higher than any other time in fifty two years for any president, Democrat or Republican—these are no jokes and as I talk about in Patience With God, if you trace these origins back to this paranoid, deluded evangelical group of which me and my father sadly were not only members but leaders in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s, the foot soldiers that people like****Armey and others are using now to push their political agenda to undo health care are also people that have within their ranks people such as the person who murdered Dr. Tiller and killed three police officers in Pittsburg because they thought Obama would take away their guns. This bumper sticker simply says to them “It’s open season”.

MADDOW: And, to be clear, I mean, over-the-top political criticism is as American as apple pie, and incredibly intense criticism has been leveled at George W. Bush and against every President that's gone before him in modern times, but you're saying that there is essentially a religious inflection in the most extreme of the commentary against Obama that's operating on a religious level, that's a signal to a religiously-minded audience.

SCHAEFFER: Absolutely. Look. This is the American version of the Taliban. The Taliban quotes the Qu'ran, and al Qaeda quotes certain verses in the Qu'ran, in or out of context, calling for jihad, and bloody war, and the curse of Allah on infidels. This is the Old Testament, Biblical equivalent of calling for holy war. Now, most Americans'll just see the bumper sticker and smile and think that it's facetious. Unfortunately, there are 22 million Americans or so who call themselves super-conservative evangelicals. Of this, a small minority might be violent. But, the general atmosphere here is really getting heated.

And what surprises me is that responsible, if you can put it that way, Republican leadership and the editors of some of these Christian magazines, etc. etc., do not stand up in holy horror and denounce this. You know, they're always asking 'Where is the Islamic leadership denouncing terrorism? Why aren't the moderates speaking out?' Well, I challenge the folks who I used to work with that I talk about in my book Patience With God and I would just say to them: 'Where the hell are you? This is not funny anymore. And be it on your head if something happens to our President if you are going to go around supporting and not speaking out against this stuff. It’s not just a question of who’s doing it. The bigger question is where are the people speaking out against these things? I don’t hear those voices raised in the evangelical fundamentalist community and until I do I am, my opinion is they’re culpable and one last thing on this.

And I…one last thing on this—I think it points up the fact that Obama supporters of which I have been one since he began running had better start speaking up in support of him and not sniping at him all the time because he’s not moving towards change as fast as we’d like in every area. This is serious stuff. The chips are down. He has real enemies, some of them are violent and as far as I’m concerned it’s time to support our president and stand with him and not only wish him the best, but as a believing Christian myself, pray for his safety in the face of these religious maniacs who every day, you know, one time I was on your show a while back and they were talking about is he the anti-Christ, now they’re saying he’s an unjust ruler and they’re asking god to strike him down. There are not very many steps left on this insane path
 Wookie50
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 5
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 9:22:43 AM

That is definitely a possiblity but it is just as likely that someone noticed the Phrase "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." and thought that would make a good slogan for how they felt about Obama without even reading the next verse.....but it does make for great ammunition for those on the Left who constantly want to vilify the Right....


He has a set term in office, the same as every other president. How else would "his days be few"?
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 6
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 9:31:49 AM

kind of a catchy slogan....the rest is Left wing spin to try to make the Right wing look as if they are hoping for bad things to befall the President.

That was my take on it too... or else just paranoia.

He has a set term in office, the same as every other president. How else would "his days be few"?

One term and not two?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 7
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 9:35:13 AM
Frank and his father Francis, founded the Religious Right back in the 70s. Despite many physical challenges, and his fundamentalist upbringing, Frank has become a voice of reason, railing every bit as much against fundamentalist atheism, as he does his former movement. While he remains devoutly religious, and worked for McCain's 2000 campaign, he was taken aback by the direction of the far right of his original movement and became an independent, as well as one of the most thought provoking free thinkers alive in the US today. To dis him merely because he posts to everyone, including HUFFPO, is to ignore some very important insights from a man who was deeply involved in the incubation of the religious right into politics.
http://www.frankschaeffer.com/
Frank's is a very important voice of reason in trying to diffuse the growing hate coming from his former colleagues.
 Wookie50
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 8
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 10:27:19 AM

Christians also believe in the end of days we will be villified and persecuted by the enemies of God... Well, let's see, Obama calls us "dangerous" or "right wing extremists", Jimmy Carter calls us "racists", socialists call us all that and more, including "whack jobs" and all the other derogatory terms...


Good thing the right holds the exclusive patent on Christianity, huh?
 Wookie50
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 9
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 12:16:27 PM
Jimmy Carter has written about a dozen theology books and yet he is an "enemy of God". You guys are just doing a bang up job of proving that you aren't "right wing extremists".
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 10
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 1:09:39 PM
The authors KNEW the context of Psalm 109:8 when they proposed the T-shirt/bumpersticker campaign. While the perpetraitors are covering their tracks, the merchandisers have realized that they were duped into a seemly harmless campaign, veiled in hate and threat. It was cynically presented as a "prayer for Obama", rather than what it really was. If you read the entirety of Psalm 109, there is no way to misconstrue the context of 109:8. Even CS Lewis noted the harsh hatred contained within..
http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2009/11/psalm-1098--a-prayer-for-obama.html
In his marvelous book, Reflections on the Psalms, C.S. Lewis observed:

In some of the Psalms the spirit of hatred which strikes us in the face is like the heat from a furnace mouth. In others the same spirit ceases to be frightful only by becoming (to a modern mind) almost comic in its naivety. Examples can be found all over the Psalter, but perhaps the worst is in 109 (p. 20).

Lewis suspects that it may be best to leave such psalms alone. But then he says that we must face "facts squarely."

The hatred is there--festering, gloating, undisguised--and also we should be wicked if we in any way condoned or approved it, or (worse still) used it to justify similar passions in ourselves (p. 22).

Lewis refers to these psalms as horrible, devilish, cruel, hateful, and evil. He believes that Psalm 109--and the poetry of its kind in the psalter--should point us back to the evil we carry within and teach us each how to behave with goodness, humility, and love.

According then, to the venerable C.S. Lewis, a "Prayer for Obama" is really a prayer for ourselves to go beyond "festering, gloating, undisguised" hatred. "If the Divine does not call to make us better, it will make us very much worse," he reminded his readers, "Of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst."

A CRY FOR VENGENCE
1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

2 for the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me:
they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.


3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred;
and fought against me without a cause.


4 For my love they are my adversaries:
but I give myself unto prayer.


5 And they have rewarded me evil for good,
and hatred for my love.


6 Set thou a wicked man over him:
and let Satan stand at his right hand.


7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned:
and let his prayer become sin.


8 Let his days be few;
and let another take his office. Acts 1.20


9 Let his children be fatherless,
and his wife a widow.


10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:
let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.


11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath;
and let the strangers spoil his labor.


12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him:
neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.


13 Let his posterity be cut off;
and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.


14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD;
and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.


15 Let them be before the LORD continually,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.


16 Because that he remembered not to show mercy,
but persecuted the poor and needy man,
that he might even slay the broken in heart.


17 As he loved cursing,
so let it come unto him:
as he delighted not in blessing,
so let it be far from him.


18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment,
so let it come into his bowels like water,
and like oil into his bones.


19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him,
and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.


20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD,
and of them that speak evil against my soul.


21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake:
because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.


22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.


23 I am gone like the shadow when it declineth:
I am tossed up and down as the locust.


24 My knees are weak through fasting;
and my flesh faileth of fatness.


25 I became also a reproach unto them:
when they looked upon me they shook their heads. Mt. 27.39 · Mk. 15.29


26 Help me, O LORD my God:
O save me according to thy mercy:


27 that they may know that this is thy hand;
that thou, LORD, hast done it.


28 Let them curse, but bless thou:
when they arise, let them be ashamed;
but let thy servant rejoice.


29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame;
and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.


30 I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth;
yea, I will praise him among the multitude.


31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor,
to save him from those that condemn his soul.





Statement on Psalm 109 Products
By zazzlemike
Dear Zazzle Member or Concerned Citizen—

Today, there has surfaced a great deal of discussion and debate over certain products in the Zazzle Marketplace which reference text from Psalm 109 in combination with reference to President Barack Obama. We at Zazzle are aware of the issue, and would like to take this opportunity to respond in a unified and public fashion to all parties and viewpoints.

Zazzle puts great value on its Marketplace as a forum for discussion and debate of the issues of our day. We are proud of the fact that no matter how arcane or apparently esoteric a subject may be, there can often be found Zazzle products pertaining to it. We are particularly sensitive to Zazzle as an open forum for the expression and debate of political viewpoints. The rigorous debate and discussion of political issues, including candidates for political office, our elected leaders, and pending and actual legislation, is something that drives the very democracy that in turn allows for our freedom as citizens to make these expressions in the first place.

With that in mind, it is only after great thought that we have determined that these products, in the context of the full text of Psalm 109, may be interpreted in such a way as to suggest physical harm to the President of the United States. In deference to the Office of the President of the United States, and in accordance with federal law prohibiting the making of threats against the physical wellbeing of the President of the United States, Zazzle has therefore determined that these products are in violation of the Zazzle User Agreement and not appropriate for inclusion in the Zazzle Marketplace. We have begun efforts to remove them from our website, and we will be vigilant to the publication of similar products moving forward.

Zazzle will continue to allow and encourage the submission of products that express disapproval or approval of the President’s policies and actions, but Zazzle will not permit products that may be interpreted to suggest violence toward the President.

Sincerely,
The Zazzle Team
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 11
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 1:53:31 PM
Most know from other threads I'm very pro Obama but its sad that a small minority prays for harm,I'm not one that's really for organized religion at all,but its very sad and sick when those of a christian faith or any faith would do this,praying for a president to die is akin to praying your side of a war will do better than the other side by the means of success in killing ,or akin to praying you'll beat the brains out of your opponent that your boxing,well like I said I'm not into religions that are organized,to much judging I'm superior so you shouldn't be around,or I'm the right path and I'll kill you if you don't follow our ways,the correct path,haha.I'm into Kharma instead.

Sure the left and the right don't agree but I would never believe this is anything more than a very very small minority that should be ashamed of themselves.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 12
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 2:32:27 PM
First off I love the South ,lets get that out of the way.Secondly as you go back into the decades of the legislatures,Georgia or NY,North or south,east or west you will run into the racists. sure,we all know many of the Southern legislatures had many racists,as did the north.Guess the point is since its seems to be aimed at Carter,the question is was he personally a racist.I never saw a racist in him,just my humble opinion !

Jimmy's a country boy,when he has a barbecue the whole town comes,lots are blacks eat with him and his books are about among other things, religion and of peace,its why he got a Nobel,because of his work in peace,racists don't get Nobels,One could be an atheist and still write a great factual book on the history of religion,whats that got to do with it !

I think Octomom is a money grubbing,off kilter lady that needs therapy,and her doctor should have lost his medical license,but anyone can write a book using facts,stories,and humor.I did not know she wrote a book but one can't debase an entire book because of the author,heck,maybe the whole book was logic swiped from Proctor and Gamble,then the facts would have had sound meaning.Carter is an amazing author have you ever read one of his many books?
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 13
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/21/2009 2:45:35 PM
Yet he had the nerve to try to label ME a "racist" simply because I oppose a socialist takeover of our Republic?


Does that mean that you will be partaking in the praying for the president's death?

Hey, you might add a chicken and a few dolls and needles and you may call it a voodoo ritual. No offense to the true believers!
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 14
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 2:05:18 PM

Wow! all of these posts and still not one bit of real evidence that suggests that the people who came up with the Psalm 109:8 Campaign meant anything more than "May his days be few;may another take his place of leadership" .there is a lot of Chirstian bashing by the usual suspects though.....


Maybe this will give you a bit more context, so you won't be so doubtful. At least you shouldn't doubt the source.


A Phoenix-area pastor has started to draw protesters to his congregation after he delivered a sermon titled, "Why I Hate Barack Obama," and told his parishioners that he prays for President Obama's death.

Pastor Steven Anderson stood by his sermon in an interview with MyFOXPhoenix, which reports that the pastor continues to encourage his parishioners to join him in praying for the president's death.

"I hope that God strikes Barack Obama with brain cancer so he can die like Ted Kennedy and I hope it happens today," he told MyFOXPhoenix on Sunday. He called his message "spiritual warfare" and said he does not condone killing.

But a small crowd of protesters gathered around his church Sunday, calling Anderson's words "incomprehensible." And MyFOXPhoenix reported that the sermon, which has drawn widespread attention, led to death threats against the pastor.

Anderson's inflammatory message stems in part from Obama's abortion-rights stance.

In Anderson's controversial sermon, delivered at his Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe before Obama arrived for a speech in Phoenix earlier in the month, the pastor said he wants the president to "melt like a snail" with salt on it.

"I'm gonna pray that he dies and goes to hell when I go to bed tonight. That's what I'm gonna pray," he told his congregation.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/31/phoenix-pastor-draws-protests-telling-church-prays-obamas-death/

It looks like it is not just a group of enterprising people trying to sell T-shirts. The hate is real, and the prayers are also real.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 15
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 2:23:25 PM
Oh there is no debate about the death part.The pastor is local news here where I live.Hard that some can even defend this as if to say this is what they might of meant.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 16
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 4:04:50 PM

And MyFOXPhoenix reported that the sermon, which has drawn widespread attention, led to death threats against the pastor.


Looks to me as if the "right wing religious zealots" aren't the only ones with death on their minds. I think there is a difference between wishing it and threatening it.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 17
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 4:29:04 PM
And MyFOXPhoenix reported that the sermon, which has drawn widespread attention, led to death threats against the pastor.


Looks to me as if the "right wing religious zealots" aren't the only ones with death on their minds. I think there is a difference between wishing it and threatening it.


He who sows the winds,.........
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 18
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:09:57 PM

He who sows the winds,.........


Har, har. C'mon tranquillo, why is it the outrage that is being spewed over a stupid biblical quote or praying to "God" for someone to die doesn't seem to carry over toward someone's verbal threat to physically murder someone. The libs get all up in arms over wishing or praying to a God who many don't even believe in (and even if he does exist, he doesn't seem to involve himself in American politics very often), but death threats get brushed off? Liberal flawed thinking reaches a new low.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 19
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:53:50 PM
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/notes-underground-words-american-taliban
Notes from Underground: Words from the American Taliban

by smkovalinsky | September 1, 2009 at 05:46 am

Videos
Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ''Highlights'' )
sourced by smkovalinsky

It is always good to remember why it is that we are in a pluralistic democracy, with freedom of speech, separation of church and state, and civil rights and liberties. These quotes from the "American Taliban", made by Ann Coulter, Pat Buchannan, Michael Savage, Gary North, and others, serve as a reminder that America also harbors its own version of Hezballah, or literally, the party of God.

The "Why I hate Barack Obama" speech of August 16, in which the President's death was prayed for, is one more reminder that vigilance is called for.

"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."

"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."

George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God

"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."

"There should be absolutely no 'Separation of Church and State' in America."


I wonder what all that means?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 20
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:37:16 AM
etourdi77 wrote ...
Wow! all of these posts and still not one bit of real evidence that suggests that the people who came up with the Psalm 109:8 Campaign meant anything more than "May his days be few;may another take his place of leadership" .there is a lot of Chirstian bashing by the usual suspects though.....


I found something where a minister openly admits he encourages his church attendees to use the Psalm 109 to pray for OBAMA's death. Does that count?

http://jonathanturley.org/2009/06/05/baptist-minister-prays-for-death-of-president-obama/

(Excerpts)
Note ... definitions provided via Microsoft Word Thesaurus

Baptist Minister Prays For Death of President Obama
Published 1, June 5, 2009

Baptist Minister (and former second vice president of the Souther Baptist Convention) Wiley Drake reportedly said that he is offering an “imprecatory (To imprecateCurse …to call down harm, especially a curse, on somebody.) ... prayer” for the death of President Obama.

Drake reportedly said on June 2 on “The Alan Colmes Show” that, unless Obama repents, he is praying for God to kill him — referencing the killing of Dr. George Tiller as an example of such divine retribution.

***************************
Drake repeated the view that Obama (who he refers to as “B. Hussein Obama”) is not an American-born citizen and called him a “usurper.” (To usurpSeize something without right … to use something without the right to do so.)

Drake was praised in extremist websites after he filed to block Obama from taking the oath of office. He also said that Rev. Rick Warren would be punished by God for offering a prayer at the inauguration.

There are a variety of imprecatory (To imprecateCurse …to call down harm, especially a curse, on somebody.) ... psalms containing curses or prayers for the punishment and death for one’s enemies.

***************************

Imprecatory (To imprecateCurse …to call down harm, especially a curse, on somebody.)prayer, is now our duty
The righteous have dominion, but only through imprecatory prayer against the ungodly.
David as our Old Testament shepherd gives us many Imprecatory prayers, and can be found to be in best focus in Psalm 109.

***************************

During his interview with Colmes, he was asked directly about his death-dealing prayer for the president:
“Are you praying for his death?” Colmes asked.

Yes,” Drake replied.

“So you’re praying for the death of the president of the United States?”

Yes.”
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 21
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/23/2009 8:56:05 AM
Psalm 109:8 >>


New International Version (©1984)
May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Let his days be few; Let another take his office.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Let his days be few [in number]. Let someone else take his position.

King James Bible
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

American King James Version
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

American Standard Version
Let his days be few; And let another take his office.

Bible in Basic English
Let his life be short; let another take his position of authority.

Douay-Rheims Bible
May his days be few: and his bishopric let another take.

Darby Bible Translation
Let his days be few, let another take his office;

English Revised Version
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

Webster's Bible Translation
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

World English Bible
Let his days be few. Let another take his office.

Young's Literal Translation
His days are few, his oversight another taketh,

...............................................................on Psalm 109:8

Psalm 55:23 But You, O God, will bring them down to the pit of destruction; Men of bloodshed and deceit will not live out half their days. But I will trust in You.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acts 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE MADE DESOLATE, AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT'; and, 'LET ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS OFFICE.' (NASB ©1995)


http://bible.cc/psalms/109-8.htm
......................................................................................................................................


All I ask It that you Pray this prayer with all the conviction in your heart...

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Someone please provide direct proof that the people who started the Psalm 109:8 campaign meant anything more than

"May his days be few;may another take his office".....


There is no proof...

but why not just make a statement I pray someone else takes his office...?

Why, because the doesnt carry the meaning Psalms 109:8 does...

Why dont you prove Psamls 109:8 means...God we just want him out of office.




 bliss serendipity
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 22
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:00:48 PM
One should wonder why the entire Psalms 109 was not included? From Dkos:


In Psalms 109, King David, who is a major figure in the Old Testament is lamenting. He says:

For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
speaking against me with lying tongues.
They beset me with words of hate,
and attack me without cause.
In return for my love they accuse me,
even while I make prayer for them.
So they reward me evil for good,
and hatred for my love.

For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me? He goes on:

They say, Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser stand on his right.
When he is tried, let him be found guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin.
May his days be few;
may another seize his position.
May his children be orphans,
and his wife a widow.
May his children wander about and beg;
may they be driven out of the ruins they inhabit.
May the creditor seize all that he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil.

And then King David says,

Help me, O Lord my God!
Save me according to your steadfast love.
Let them know that this is your hand;
you, O Lord, have done it.
Let them curse, but you will bless.
Let my assailants be put to shame; may your servant be glad.
May my accusers be clothed with dishonour;
may they be wrapped in their own shame as in a mantle.
With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord;
I will praise him in the midst of the throng.
For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
to save them from those who would condemn them to death.

For those would quote the Bible for their justifications, wouldn’t you think they can do a bit better than this?

The rich irony is that those who have chosen this Bible verse as a slogan clearly have no idea of the context and meaning of that which they quote.

The Bible clearly says the exact opposite of that which they imply.


Bliss
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 23
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:44:17 PM

For those would quote the Bible for their justifications, wouldn’t you think they can do a bit better than this?

The rich irony is that those who have chosen this Bible verse as a slogan clearly have no idea of the context and meaning of that which they quote.
see,even you,all these bibles all having different meaning,you find the Bible you have and quote from it.What Bible did you mean, the International Version (©1984), New American Standard Bible (©1995), GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995), King James Bible,American King James Version, American Standard Version ,Bible in Basic English ,Douay-Rheims Bible
,Darby Bible Translation,English Revised Version, Webster's Bible Translation
,World English Bible,Gideon' s ! They all read with different meanings on any topic.

This is what I hate about phrases from the Bible.There is the word unto,that word commonly gets translated to be onto,meaning something else,my point,God walked unto the water,also God walked unto the baby. Now did God walk on the baby or beside the baby,then did God walk beside the water or on the water.So much of the Bible is not translated well at all,like the parting of the Red Sea,remember that,well in the Bible it speaks of the Sea of Reeds,Big difference and a lot more shallow and not all that far away.

Bible,hmmm,you can die and come back alive,one can live to 900 years old,couple of fish and loves can feed a thousand,and another can be swallowed by a whale,one can part a sea,then a ship that carries every insect,rodent,bird,mammal,animal by the twos ,hmm,ever do the math on that on cubic feet needed even if they needed no food and bumped up against each other.Another's look can turn ones to stone.Well its a nice imaginative story like the Hobbit . Most of the writers wrote there bits years and decades after the events,yet we put so much meaning into a single word or a single phrase,I know I can't remember someones exact words 30 years ago,yet a writer did.I wonder what actually happened back then,before it was rewritten so many times.Karma is much easier to buy into ,and no one kills anyone over the word of karma !
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 24
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:21:20 PM
I'm a Christian, and I voted for Obama.

In my opinion if anyone kills the president, they will only make a martyr out of him. That's what made Jesus' lasting impression...

Anything done out of fear, even prayer, is not going to have any lasting effect on this world. The lasting things have been done out of creativity, innovation and enthusiasm. Fear only stalls, and does not create.

Most Christian prayers end with "May God's Will Be Done." Judgement is mine, sayeth the Lord.

Let God decide and don't pray to tell Him what to do.

We are our country. We elect our representatives. We can create a country we can all live together in, no matter who is the acting president. Participation is the key. Pray for guidance, then do something positive for our country...killing one person does not change anyone's mind about anything. If anything, it might only strengthen their resolve...

True leadership gives people something inspiring to follow and build upon. Fear, threats, and death is not a foundation for anything. We can all focus on solutions, not on problems. There will always be problems, the solutions are ours to create and sustain.

The previous quotes mentioned the prevalence of cursing. Cursing is condemnation. Threats and prayers for negative actions are another form of condemnation. Look closely and find whatever is good in our government and praise that. Appreciate the things that are working. Expand on what we have already built. If we tear down what we build every 8 years, and start from scratch, we are wasting our inheritance given to us by the hard work of generations past.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 25
view profile
History
New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.
Posted: 11/26/2009 6:42:54 AM
"etourdi77 " wrote ...
there is a lot of Chirstian bashing by the usual suspects though.....
I'm not sure what that means.

"Christian bashing"? Who has been "bashing" the Christians?

"Usual suspects"? Suspects of what?

With proof that even so-called "Christian" ministers are openly stating that they are "praying for the death of the President of the United States" ... it would be rather difficult to blame that kind of stuff on the Atheists ... or perhaps the "non-religious" ... eh? Do you think they might be "praying for the death of the President of the United States"? Do you think they pray for anything?

Not being a church-going "Christian", I personally just can't imagine what it must be like to sit in church and pray for the "death of the leader of our country". I can't imagine what it must be like to be listening to a sermon (for example) and at the close of it ... be asked to "keep praying for the death of the leader of our country".

Being a "spiritual" person and care giver of sick and ailing, it's difficult for me to envision even wishing for the death of anyone, much less the leader of our country.

Instead of insinuating that perhaps "Christian-bashing usual suspects" might be making this up, it might be nice to see people actually come in here and question the ethical correctness of "praying for the death of the President of the United States" ... that is unless they'd actually like to see "the death of the President of the United States".

In that case, I can understand that one might not have a problem with so-called "Christians" going about their daily routines and in the meantime keep "praying for the death of the President of the United States". In that case, I could imagine that if they'd actually like to see "the death of the President of the United States" that they would not be at all incensed about such "imprecatory praying and prayers".
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > New christian craze: Praying for Obama's death.