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 19justice78
Joined: 7/23/2008
Msg: 2
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Men -- How we workPage 1 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
"ron1902"

Surprise, surprise we don't really care whether you get it, and heres the really big surprise when we want to talk it's not always to "fix something" we are more about wanting to "talk" to you and it would be really nice if you listened. But of course we also know that more than likely you won't but thats ok because we will just move on to someone who will, or better yet .... just move on. Tell that to your football kids.
 cfb62
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 5
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 6:33:13 AM
What's your question??!!!
 ileft
Joined: 4/25/2008
Msg: 14
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 7:11:39 AM
I see what you're saying but what about the honesty is the best policy thing. Plus you can't read our minds and we can't read yours so surely in some situations it's best to just get straight to the point.
 ileft
Joined: 4/25/2008
Msg: 24
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 8:12:53 AM
The point is guys not all conversations have to be bad or stressful ones. The more you communicate the less she'll nag and who knows you may even be rewarded in the way you like if you know what i mean. And then there you go everyone's a winner.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 25
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 8:15:38 AM
First,,, I don't agree with the OP's concept,,,or thinking on this subject. I don't believe "all" women start a conversation with the belief they are "naggin" or even the intent to "nag". I also don't believe "pattin" people always works,,,as in sugar coating the message. There are times the kick in the bum works better,,,,it's all relative.

In sayin this,,,,I do question this school of thought also,,,,,


Many of us try to warn when the relationship is in defcon 4 and then, one day after you've refused to talk, you wake up and wonder what the hell happened and where your wives went. I think a lot of women are heartily sick of carrying the load.


The first thing you women must understand when you first start speaking TRYING to get a message across,,,,you have to learn HOW to get that message across. Here's that venus and mars thingy again coming into play. It's surprising how many women believe they are telling us something which in fact, you say everything BUT what you are trying to say. It's like following a circle jerk at times. Honestly.

Personally,,,,as a man,,,,,I'm "heartily sick" of carrying the load of TRYING to figure out what people (women included)are trying to say when I take their words for their meanings. Somewhere along the line you women believe that you are the only ones that have this need for expression. Maybe, just maybe,,,open your mind along with your eyes and hear what the other guy is trying to tell ya.

Honestly,,,I believe communications skills are lacking everywhere. People are losing the ability to communicate(that includes listening along with the talking). Don't believe me????? Look around at all the people bumping into each other with their phones to their ears,,,fingers on buttons texting,,,,or eyes staring at a screen. Bunch of words flying around and not a word being said. And it ain't gonna get better any time soon. Both genders suck at this.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 27
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 8:25:08 AM
So, Coach, put away your chalk board and chalk and don't discuss with your players how you are effectively going to make a play on the field to make things run more smoothly to make a winning game. Just throw them onto the field and pat them on the bottom and say if you keep making touchdowns you'll keep getting a pat on the bottom upon your return to the sidelines. If they keep losing without you discussing with them what's going wrong and how to make the plays better, I can see how that works wonders. Coaches like that would be so sought after and the players go on to the big leagues.

The above aside, I don't nag. I just simply wouldn't start a relationship in the first place if he's not an effective communicator. Really, there are huge numbers of guys out there who do know how to open their mouths and speak...and listen. If you refuse to understand there's a need for it in a relationship, you're doomed to keep losing in the relationship game.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 28
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 8:33:30 AM
The basic flaw to this umm....well attempt at a topic is that it is mistaking a gender issue for a communication issue.

People have different ways of relating and communicating, regardless of gender. Throwing everyone in one of two piles "men" and "women" makes it easier to excuse a failure, because it's they're a man or woman, not just because it's a person you can't have successful communication with. Period.

To extrapolate a bit, the OP doesn't appear to have good communication skills with the women that he's known. He's throwing out this "great advice" as the spokesman for all men. At best this would be fodder for his happy hour buddies if that.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 31
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 8:59:21 AM
Every once in a while I have said to my sweetie "We need to talk" just so I can see that immediate, reflexive flicker in his eyes.
Then I laugh. OK, I'm twisted and weak.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 46
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 11:17:43 AM
I'll look at this from a man's perspective for a moment, being that there are so many men who believe they are being "told" what to do and so many women figuring they have to tell men what to do, and this thread doesn't seem to be so much about any kind of meaningful conversations/communication between partners. I'm the absolute worst person for being "told" what to do, even when I was a kid, and nothing will get my feathers ruffled faster - I'm more apt to deliberately not do something if I'm told to do it. Yes, by all means "ask" a guy if there's something he can do for you. If, however, it doesn't happen to be within your time lines, fricking do it yourself - it is YOUR time line after all, not his. He's your partner, not your child or a kid you're coaching. If it bothers you so much that it seems to be a consistent thing that he does absolutely nothing around the house or whatever it is on your time lines (if that's your biggest worry withinin a relationship), leave the relationship and you'll likely both be happier. Then you can do ALL the housework on your own without feeling the need to have to tell someone to do something for you. I'd hate a man figuring he had the right to tell me what to do as well.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 49
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 11:34:27 AM
^^^^Too bad this one lives on the flat lands. Good wording.

Okay,,,my comment was towards Message #48,,,chameleonf's.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 53
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 12:34:20 PM
"Ladies: It's not that we don't want to "talk", but sometimes talking just for the sake of talking, with no desired outcome, is exhausting."

While you made a good point, women do not hold exclusive rights to this behavior. My ex was notorious for telling me to "get to the point" when I would start to tell him something. He however would drone on and on about people at work, work, cars, his car, his father didn't love him, etc. Seriously he would go on for hours. And talk about nagging... don't get me started.

The reality is that men and women forget that their partner is an individual. This includes that they have their own interests, cares and concerns. We are to help each other, but we both resent that feeling of being told what to do and/or being taken for granted.

Edit: Here's your token pat on the butt for constructively participating in this forum.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 54
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 12:37:31 PM
Generally speaking, I like the idea of giving men a pat on the butt.
 BlueEyes1712
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 58
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 1:48:55 PM
Yep, thats the way the cookie crumbles. If your not open to communication and a give and exchange on compramise and understanding the concerns of your spouce/mate, then you are saying "your not concerned about them" , thats the message you give by not listening. Why would someone want to be with someone thats all wrapped up in themselves and not giving the time for thier SO. I was a this way for many years due to emotionally deprived parents where ignoring the needs of the children occurred. This created self centered behavior and not being attentive to my mates needs. I am grateful I am learning to be a more open and understanding man, its the only way to love someone again.
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 65
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 2:43:47 PM
What ever happened to the simplistic and timeless "feed em, fork em and shut the fork up" ???
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 66
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 2:50:07 PM
sports analogies are seldom applicable to anything but adversarial dynamics, yet people want to make them the blueprint of life. ugh.
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 68
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 3:03:38 PM
The best defense to the....." Honey, we need to talk.." is to say "OH YES WE DO!"... said with angst and annoyance.... then say.. "ok you go first".... it changes the entire dynamic from offense to defensive on her part.... but be prepared to to rally around some insignificant irritation you have that wont destruct the relationship but u can defend with great vigor and self rightousness.... and also an issue for which she will feel a sense of guilt or shame for .... works like a charm..... guys its all tactical psyops
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 73
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 3:38:23 PM
Your post sounds more like dog training than having a relationship with another adult.

Personally, I would rather be with someone I don't need to train and at this point I don't think I am overly demanding consequently I cannot imagine a request not being something someone could easily comply with and probably not unless it had to do with something that had upset me, i.e. hurt feelings not how you put your socks in the hamper.

If someone doesn't give enough of a shit to try to take my feelings into account I am probably not going to be screaming or patting anyone on the butt, I'm gone.

Kids are funny things, you can do things the "right way," with great care to the self-esteem, trying to give the child transition time, trying to find a motivating factor for cooperation, even perhaps the reverse psychology, etc. but eventually you need to say fuk this and put the little tot in the car. In many cases, the people that need the patting the most are those that are least likely to change in the first place and are just taking advantage of you trying to act like a reasonable, rational human being.
 gentleplus
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 76
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 3:41:20 PM
Yes I tend to agree pandus.. if u agree with her point then none of the pushback is needed .... the goal is to create a sense of doubt or angst in her mind so that she will be less intense and more moderate and factual because she is anticipating paybacks in your reply that may never occur is all
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 94
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/28/2009 9:39:12 PM
Well, OP has sage advice if the only person in the relationshp is the man. Because then, if that's how he thinks it should be, it's all good. But usually, there are two people in a relationship, and what EACH of them needs is considered of EQUAL value.

Hey, and BY THE WAY, I have coached boys as well--they do what they are told to do by the coach without asking questions. "Cuz Coach says"
 skylarkMD-10
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 98
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 7:03:56 AM
Its not like communication skills are taught in school. Most of this is learned by casual observation and some parents stink at it. Is there really a reason to announce “Lets talk” . Why do couples wait till there is a lets talk moment instead of just talking all along? Sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone to stay current instead of waiting for the snow ball effect to hit and a lets talk moment arrives. Keep talking while its manageable and current don’t wait till it becomes an issue. Then again they don’t “teach fighting” fair in school either.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 100
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 8:30:17 AM
Really--I thought the point you were making is that women need to change how they communicate because men won't. Instead of both trying to understand each other, I thought YOU were advocating women get a spot on ESPN to talk about emotional issues such as,
Her: "Honey, I'm thinking of leaving you because you won't talk to me."
Him: Oh, gawd, I hate talking about this crap. And the game is on, I can only understand quick statements of fact. "Quit nagging me."
(Wait--where'd she go?! Man, women are crazy!)

I just thought of something:
If a woman kind of sneaks up on you with the "we have to talk" line, and you're unprepared, say so. Say, "OK, I am willing to talk and listen, but my head just isn't in the right place right NOW. Do you mind if we talk about it later?" Then, give a specific time, and if she argues and says, "NO! I want to talk NOW!" say "I'm sorry, I'm not ready now." Keep calm--I'm told you men prefer to speak in short, factual statements without emotion. This is a far better strategy than syaing, "Quit nagging me."
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 104
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 9:24:22 AM
Anyone over 30 should know right from wrong, good from bad, etc. I shouldn't have to treat a man like a child and give gold stars and points and I am not interested in training him. If I wanted to raise a child I would have had one. I do agree that being encouraging versus discouraging is the way to go, but I have no choice but to just walk away if a man has no interest in pleasing me as much as I do him. I've always laughed at coaches that yell and scream at their team and think it's extremely immature and nowadays a guy could go to jail for patting a child's butt. If this is the only emotional level men are capable of I think I'll switch teams.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 106
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 9:51:08 AM
I really don't think it goes down to treating someone like a child. Good golly, I generally respond better to someone being positive than coming down on me. People tend to avoid those who are negative and critical and move away from pressure.

The OP's point would seem to be: "Catch someone in the act" of doing something right and acknowledge them. In my experience, both men and women respond well to that.

I like getting my sh!t when I've messed up real quick and clean... nothing drawn out or belaboured or a big production. Just tell me I screwed up and how I can make it right, and accept my apology.

And, BTW, despite appearances on Oprah, Dr Deborah Tannen's books on the differences in how men and women communicate is the real deal.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 110
Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/29/2009 2:06:54 PM
If I ask someone to do something for me, which is so rare it's not even funny since I hate to do that - and I end up doing it myself (or paying someone to do it which it actually less painful), it just proves to me I should do everything myself in the first place, and I start to wonder what he's there for. *shrug*

I'd rather not ask and deal with everything myself then go through not liking to ask and then having to wait when it could have been over with.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 118
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Men -- How we work
Posted: 11/30/2009 2:57:56 PM
*I* expect to be treated and spoken to in a respectful manner by a partner as that is what I would offer. I don't require or 'need' constant positive reinforcement to uphold my end of the bargain in the relationship. I gave my word I would and will stick to my word.

It's obviously nice and appreciated when our partners make 'us' feel appreciated, valued and wanted. However, if the goal is to manipulate or change someone, whether by coddling or complaining, well, it just won't work on me. I am who I am and if I don't suit you or fulfill your needs, then obviously we need to go our separate ways.

However, normal communication in a relationship includes discussing all aspects of our lives...positive and negative...and how we, or our actions, impact one another (for better AND worse). With that, comes the normal negotiation and compromise that help to bond us, strengthen the relationship and grow as people. No way will I be with someone where I feel, by them merely uttering a phrase such as "let's talk" or, "we need to talk", a sense of fear, panic or intimidation. Those are signs of something a lot deeper than poor communication skills, e.g. control issues, narcisism, etc.

And I agree Margo...get it out in the air rather than letting it fester and build. Also, when I accept my shortcomings, apologize and adjust my behavior accordingly, that should be the end of it. It's not ammunition to be used in future discussions or disagreements unless it is symptomatic of a pattern or similar behavior/trait.






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