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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 1
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
....... if you thought he was going to add more boots on the ground in Afghanistan before pulling out.

Of course we knew he was immediately going to add more boots ... just move them out of Iraq and send them into Afghanistan.

But I am very opposed to the US adding still more troops to the Afghanistan front.

Do you think so many people would have voted for OBAMA if they knew he was not going to get us out of Afghanistan ASAP?
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 2
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 4:43:54 PM
From his campaign, I understood that he was going to put more troops in Afghanistan, so, yes, I would have still voted for him.

I do think it's time to just pull out, though.
There isn't any way to really 'win' there, and the waste of our soldiers and those Afghanis caught in the middle is sickening.

Time to bring them home.
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 3
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 4:54:50 PM
During the entire campaign I never once heard Obama say that he would pull the troops out of Afghanistan. In fact, quite the opposite.
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php
You’re not going to win a war by pulling out the troops.
I guess people will really freak when he has to send troops to Iran.

Having said that, I wouldn’t have voted for Obama even if you had put a gun to my head.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 4
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 5:02:34 PM

But I am very opposed to the US adding still more troops to the Afghanistan front.


I don't think that you or I or the normal citizen walking down the street has a clue as to why we are in Afganistan, I do not think it has any thing to do with Bin Laden, preventing terrorism or freeing the Afganistan people. Russia was there before we were, they had in interest in Afganistan and considered it important enough to almost destroy their economy and we considered preventing them from taking over Afganistan important enough to arm the Taliban.

If we really wanted to capture or kill Bin Laden we never needed tens of thousands of troops to get him, capturing Bin Laden, preventing terrorism are nothing more then excuses to be there, the pot of goal is the same pot that Russia was after. I think we all know why we are there and what we want


Do you think so many people would have voted for OBAMA if they knew he was not going to get us out of Afghanistan ASAP?


I can't speak for anyone but myself but I voted for President Obama and that was on my part a vote of trust, I still believe he will do the right thing for our country
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 5
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 6:30:48 PM
Much of the hyped "Hope and Change" is going right down the drain.

The war in Afghanistan will help bankrupt this Nation (along with the politicians from both parties) and can't be won easily. Just ask the Russians.....
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 7
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 7:31:02 PM

Just ask the Russians.....
Ya ... we should have done that before we ever let "Dumbya" and the "C0ck" get us involved.

The Soviet War in Afghanistan, also known as the Soviet–Afghan War, was a nine-year conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan at their own request, against the Islamist Mujahideen Resistance. The Afghan government was also supported by India, while the mujahideen found other support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations through the context of the Cold War and the regional India-Pakistan conflict.
Soooo ... we supported the Afghans with weapons (and basically the Taliban) because ... ?????

The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 24, 1979 under the leadership of Soviet President Leonid Brezhnev. The final troop withdrawal started on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989 under the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the interminable nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviets' Vietnam; in relation to the Vietnam War.
Gee ... let's hope it doesn't turn into our second Vietnam War.

I was hoping OBAMA would opt to just pull all of our troops out and ... well it's useless to say it now.


^^^^^
In my heart of hearts I would prefer that we not be there at all, but we ARE there and I think that Obama deserves a CHANCE to try to conduct this war to better effect than Bush did if after broad consultation and planning he decides to try.

I'm having a difficult time believing anything General "liar" McChrystal has to say.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 8
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 11/30/2009 7:38:14 PM

I was hoping OBAMA would opt to just pull all of our troops out and ... well it's useless to say it now.


http://members.localnet.com/~jeflan/jfafghanpipe.htm

http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/911/91110.html
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 9
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 1:29:31 PM
Many people could become very unhappy come Mid 2010 when Obama may very well tell the American people that the situation in Iran is forcing him to keep troops based in Iraq. ......It could happen.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 10
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 2:19:47 PM

... when Obama may very well tell the American people that the situation in Iran is forcing him to keep troops based in Iraq. ......It could happen.
What situation in Iran?

I guess OBAMA can send as many troops as he wants ... but if Congress doesn't vote to fund them ... it might not go down too well. There are a lot of Democrats that do not want us to send more troops to Afghanistan and might limit spending which would limit the number we can send ... right?
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 11
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 2:27:47 PM
A possible situation of a nuclear armed Iran. Who knows they could have a atomic weapon by mid 2010. That's a game changer if they tell the world they have "the bomb".

Another possible situation is that Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities and sparks a war.

Anything is possible...But I hope the bulk troops come home in 2010 as promised.
But it looks like President Obama can't even close Gitmo on time. He still has some time left to close it down and I hope it happens. January 2010 was his promised Guantanamo Bay closure date. His promised date. If he cant move a few hundred POW's around then how is he going to remove several thousand troops from a war zone? We might be in for a big disappointment come August 2010.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 12
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 4:44:59 PM



... when Obama may very well tell the American people that the situation in Iran is forcing him to keep troops based in Iraq. ......It could happen.

What situation in Iran?
A possible situation of a nuclear armed Iran. Who knows they could have a atomic weapon by mid 2010.
So what? That doesn't mean we have to prepare to go to war with them. And anyways, if someone sets off a nuclear bomb ... why would we want our troops anywhere close to that?

That's a game changer if they tell the world they have "the bomb".
I guess I just don't see a problem with Iran being armed. I think they have a right to have nuclear weapons. I don't think anyone has the right to dictate to Iran when it comes to that.

If someone is going to dictate to Iran about that ... they need to extend that to Israel as well. We can't very well dictate to Iran and expect inspections if no one is going to force Israel to allow inspections on their "illegal" nukes which would be the reason Iran might want nukes. I mean that has to be a direct inspiration to get nukes when you know the Israelis have them and want to use them on you.

Another possible situation is that Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities and sparks a war.
If that does happen, I hope by then that we have cut off support to Israel. If they're going to go around starting trouble, they need to do it on their own and leave us out of it. We certainly would not want to be associated with them or have our name on any bomb that falls on Iran.

This sending more troops to Afghanistan without an end to Iraq is very bothersome. Additionally, with the type of indoctrination our military has been receiving (as is evidenced in what some of the military are posting in here) ... it concerns me that it will do nothing more than make us more enemies over there.

Consider it for a minute ... if we are going to pump that poison into the heads of our military personnel ... "Haji" sh!t and other things like our "Christian" superiority ... then they will continue to antagonize the very people they are being sent over there to help.

It doesn't surprise me then that the Afghan troops open fire on our men if they go around calling them insulting names or insulting their religious beliefs. That crap really has to stop. There's nothing appropriate about that.

I think sending additional troops into that kind of situation is nothing more than promoting the coffin makers industry.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 13
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 7:39:18 PM


If you are opposed to the war and I know that you are and believe me, I honestly do respect that opinion and feel that you have the right to express that but why does expressing that mean that you justify in ANY way people shooting and killing our troops? That is what is inappropriate.


If a foreign nation invaded your country I doubt you'd find it very difficult to find any justification for killing the invaders. The Americans are the invaders in this case. I know, I know, the soldiers are just following orders.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 14
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/1/2009 8:52:46 PM


Consider it for a minute ... if we are going to pump that poison into the heads of our military personnel ... "Haji" sh!t and other things like our "Christian" superiority ... then they will continue to antagonize the very people they are being sent over there to help.

It doesn't surprise me then that the Afghan troops open fire on our men if they go around calling them insulting names or insulting their religious beliefs. That crap really has to stop. There's nothing appropriate about that.
It amazes me that people are always so quick to claim that Military people are to blame for acts of violence committed against them.
Perhaps you have missed all the blatant posts in here by our wonderful POF military members and how they call the Afghan and Iraqi people "Haji" or "Towel head" or "Burkha Boy".

In case some are unaware as to what those things mean ... what our "poster boys and girls are up to" ...
Here's what they're doing!!!!
Hajji, Hadji, Haji ... (US) Used by some U.S. service members to describe Iraqis or Arabs.
Raghead ... (US) Used by some U.S. service members ... an ethnic slur used against Arabs, Indian Sikhs and some other peoples, denigrating them for wearing traditional headdress such as turbans or keffiyehs. Sometimes used generically for all Islamic nations. See Towel head.
Towel Head , Towelhead ... Derogatory term applied to a person part of a religion that wears cloth head coverings (Muslim, Sikh etc.).
Burkha Boy ... Derogatory term used to describe a Muslim male. Very offensive.

I've met other military members who openly brag about how they use those derogatory terms and also torment the very people they were sent to help ... about their religion. They brag about how they wave their bibles around in front of them and basically insinuate they are scum ... sub human because they are "Muslims".

That's just fact. That's what they are bragging about. I don't have to make that up ... it's also right here on the POF forums. There is all kinds of documentation available that our military even antagonizes their own members. Look what they were doing to that man who shot all those people at Fort Hood. My own daughter who was a Lt. has heard them doing it.

Do they then have to wonder that the people they are there to train and help turn on them?
Oct 3, 2009 ... Afghan soldier shoots dead two American troops ... KABUL (Reuters) - An Afghan soldier on guard at a joint base with U.S. troops shot two American troops ....


That's the only point I'm trying to make here. We're indoctrinating our nation against these people ... the right wingnuts are actually encouraging it ... and then employing them to go over there and act like they want to help them ... all the while throwing insults at them and their religion.

We're basically "dumbing down the nation", filling our military with all kinds of poisonous propaganda about Muslims and then sending them over to supposedly help those people ... all the while they're going around insulting them and you want to "beat me up" for telling the truth about it? I'm to blame for pointing it out?

It seems kind of dumb to me to go stir up a hornets nest and then complain about being stung. If the military is going to do those kinds of things ... is it any wonder that the people they are in charge of training are going to eventually turn on them? Good grief man ... it's not rocket science!!!


Your blatent hatred and lack of any kind of respect for military members is more and more evidenced by your posts.
Blatant hatred? How dare you even imply such a thing!! My own daughter was in the military and was deployed. I am also dating a gentleman who's son is in the Marines.

I should think that all Americans should be as appalled as I am at the way our military members set about to insult the very people they are in charge of helping. It's absolutely despicable. And it's quite evident right here on the POF forums.

Who could ever forget their references for the Vietnamese? Gook!
Gook ... Derogatory term for Asians, used especially for enemy soldiers. Its use as an ethnic slur has been traced to U.S. Marines serving in the Philippines in the early 20th century. The earliest recorded example is dated 1920. It gained widespread notice as a result of the Korean and Vietnam wars.

And it's perfectly on topic to my original post to address such issues.

I'm very upset that OBAMA is escalating this farce of a war particularly when one takes into consideration how it has been conducted in the past and what we have to expect if we continue to send military personnel into those countries with the idea that they can just be so insulting to the indigenous people.

Instead of profiling our military and being concerned what Muslims in our own military are up to ... it occurs to me that we need to be screening the people who are in charge of training our military personnel that it's okay to put their lives in danger by being insulting to the host countries' culture and religion.

I'm thinking I still would have voted for OBAMA ... but I'm really very upset by his inability to just say "NO" to escalating this war.

We were there to get Bin Laden and they blew that way back when ... there is no reason to stay.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 15
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/2/2009 4:08:22 AM
We were there to get Bin Laden and they blew that way back when ... there is no reason to stay


It would not surprise me if we find Bin Laden within a few years. Dead of course. But right now Bin Ladens ghost is needed until they can find another boogy man to fight. Then they can show and tell the world that public enemy #1 (Bin Laden) has been taken out but the fight will continue against his replacement.

I also see that we are now going to have a lot of troops based to the west of Iran (in Iraq) and to the East of Iran (in Afghanistan). Could make for a nice little invasion force on a two front Iranian invasion...Let's hope not!

On the topic of Voting. I was a Ron Paul supporter and voted for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party after Ron endorsed him.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 16
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/2/2009 12:57:12 PM
It is disappointing that such an intelligent guy would fall for the Soviet strategy, but then again, he inherited this Vietnam, and we do still have unresolved pipeline issues.

I would still vote for him again over the alternative of two trigger happy nuke nuts, one an armageddon wisher, on the other viable ticket.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 17
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/2/2009 5:39:40 PM

It would not surprise me if we find Bin Laden within a few years. Dead of course. But right now Bin Ladens ghost is needed until they can find another boogy man to fight. Then they can show and tell the world that public enemy #1 (Bin Laden) has been taken out but the fight will continue against his replacement.


Bin Laden, terrorism, spreading democracy are nothing but excuses for us to invade and install governments that will be in line with our needs.

Let's say we were honest about why were in Afganistan instead of using the normal line of excuses. We would say Mr/Mrs Afganistan we ARE going to build a pipeline through your country and we don't care whether you like it or not, we need the 12to 13 trillion dollars worth of oil and natural gas that pipe line will carry to the sea were we can transport it. Be aware that any resitance on your part will be dealt with by our military, how do you think that would go over with the world community?

Let's face it energy is a necessary evil and WE will do what ever it takes to control as much of it as WE can

If President any body from any time is responsible it's because they have not put enough money into developing alternative energy sources. We will continue to invade other countries our kids and theirs will become victims to our need for energy. Oil and natural gas is as important if not more so then nuclear weapons are to our national security
 where4
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 18
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 12/2/2009 6:26:00 PM
Of course I would've voted for him, despite current problems. As others have said, consider the alternative, for cryin' out loud! I voted for Obama for his personal character, his contemplative decision-making style--listening to all the debate instead of dictating without due consideration--and to avoid 'more of the same' or greater movement toward the ignorant and idiotic right.

The world's problems are complex: is that too difficult to understand? I absolutely still have faith that the current president will take our nation in the best possible direction, given the realities that he has to deal with. Obama's talents include the art of compromise. I, personally, don't expect him to do everything that I, personally, might like. I, personally, don't have the intellect that he does, nor the access to information that he does. I take great comfort in the fact that this man does not pander to the moronic religious masses by saying chit like, "God told me this after I sat down and prayed about it." "I'm the decider." ["...so (basically) phuck you!"] It's not long ago that this really was the kind of idiocy that went on in the White House.

I may not have appreciated Rick Warren at the inauguration but I understood the need to signal inclusiveness to a large group of Americans, given the ceremonial confines of our governmental rituals. It was a practical compromise and gesture of invitation to a bitterly disappointed and hostile segment of the electorate. It's a goddam shame that the blowhards in our popular culture are so frigging determined to exploit division and gleeful to damage this president that they are willing to damage the country while they're at it.

Nobody is more disgusted and concerned than I am about ignorant roboXtians' influence in our military and government. Nonetheless, I ask all my like-minded citizens, do you think Obama LOSING a year ago would've improved the situation that we're in today? Somebody said, "Politics is the art of the possible." With that in mind, I believe the president is doing the best that he can in these complex and difficult circumstances.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 19
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 7:54:47 AM
Never did he say he would pull out the troops,his wording was never that ! I was wishing for Hillary,I did not know who Obama was,I learned who he was as he became a household name and towards the end I flipped to Obama when Hillary was asked to step down for the good of the party.I feel Hillary would have been so much better than Palin/McCain and all the other republicans but Hillary would have never been as good as Obama,who has been amazing.Very little credit as been given for someone tackling everything broke at the same time.Just him diverting the great depression would have made the whole choice worth it to me,but he instead has done so much,all the news keeps talking of rebounding,its widespread.Of course not in the high numbers naive right thinks it should be so as they don't have to call him a liar,but with those watching the worst happen for 2-3 years,its all looking good,every 3-4 months its better,with Bush every 3-4 months it was worse.

For the record,I was dead against going to either war when it was in Bushes hands,I thought we should have just gone after Bin Laden,like when one goes after the leader of a drug Cartel,a price goes on there head and you go after just them as the FBI would.Saddam could have been taken out with a sniper rifle at a mile away without the whole war.I would have paid for the bullet.But Saddam had nothing to do with it at that point,he was just unfinished business that Bushes Dad was responsible for.Our focus was to be Bin Laden,he would have been put on a post office poster.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 20
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 10:38:41 AM

Never did he say he would pull out the troops,his wording was never that


Well, you are half right, he did say that about Afghanistan. Iraq is another story. He did say he would pull the troops there, many times.


Very little credit as been given for someone tackling everything broke at the same time.


Only because very little has been acheived that wouldn't have happened if nothing had been done. The stimulis was a joke, by Obama worshippers own statements, very little of that money has even seen the outside of the coffers it was put in, and that money that has has done next to nothing. The clunkers deal pumped numbers for a quarter or two, but numbers are back in the cellar.


all the news keeps talking of rebounding


Take an honest look around. What is really rebounding? Jobs? Minor spike due to Xmas help. Numbers will soon be rising again. The economy? What's better about that? The place I work is getting ready to lay off. So are 4 or 5 other businesses around us, and we are in high income fairly recession-proof area. I can only imagine what things are like where I live, where the layed off GM workers were happy to get temp jobs at Toys-R-Us.


with Bush every 3-4 months it was worse


No argument there, but that was only after 2006 when that damn democratic majority congress came to power and he became an appeaser.


For the record,I was dead against going to either war when it was in Bushes hands


Well unfortunetly, you were in the minority, because not too many were, hence it happening. Again (sounding like a broken record here), if we had good intel maybe we wouldn't have gone to Iraq, but a overwhelming majority were for the war in Afghanistan. Blame your RINO buddy Colin Powell, he was most of the reason we hit Iraq. And as far as you single bullet theory about Saddam, do they make bullets that search bunkers and find people? My memory is they were hiding him, and I seem to remember celebrations in the streets when he was captured, but that was soon forgotten and the shoes of dissention were being thrown at the US troops. We should have pulled out and left them to sort the mess out, right? Well, I'll give you that one. You are probably right.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 21
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 10:54:00 AM

No argument there, but that was only after 2006 when that damn democratic majority congress came to power and he became an appeaser.


Try being half truthful you know the the democratic majority could do nothing as long as President Bush had veto power


For the record,I was dead against going to either war when it was in Bushes hands




Well unfortunetly, you were in the minority, because not too many were, hence it happening. Again (sounding like a broken record here), if we had good intel maybe we wouldn't have gone to Iraq, but a overwhelming majority were for the war in Afghanistan. Blame your RINO buddy Colin Powell, he was most of the reason we hit Iraq.


Collin Powell quit because he knew Bush was lying about WMD'S in Iraq, Collin Powell did not want to be associated with or swear to President Bushes obvious lies


And as far as you single bullet theory about Saddam, do they make bullets that search bunkers and find people? My memory is they were hiding him, and I seem to remember celebrations in the streets when he was captured,


Removing Sadam was the most ignorant thing we could have done, his removal allowed the Al Quida to operate inside of Iraq


but that was soon forgotten and the shoes of dissention were being thrown at the US troops.


Pass the mustard for the baloney you are pushing here, no one was throwing any thing at the troops


We should have pulled out and left them to sort the mess out, right? Well, I'll give you that one. You are probably right.


Once we are gone they will go right back to the religious in fighting they were involved in before Saddam brough peace through violence to Iraq
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 22
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 11:46:16 AM
Well I should have clarified my statement was about Afghanistan,no promise was ever there.As for Iraq,he's still packing it up and going,so wheres the lie,so its postponed a few months,big deal,if it was a few years,that would be different.Just like this employment numbers crap, 2% off and everyone on the right freaks,had it been double then you would have a point.

I have been watching the news ! and feeling my business rebound and watching all my customers turning around,Look my friend you already have stated you live in a town short on opportunity,thats what happens always in smaller towns that have a main industry or two,stop looking at your town as the example for the whole country,thats why you are being so inaccurate on the rebounding all over.

I remember in Portland when lumber took a hit and that was Oregons main industry yet as all the country did well we had companies shut thousands of families lose jobs,lose businesses,move away,stayed that way for years,we rebounded as becoming a second silicone valley,if we were to judge the whole country from our front porch it would have been a inaccurate view as yours.Let me point out the lumber affected 4 states,we all hurt,you probably boomed.

Colin Powell and a few others left their office in protest of the war,they resigned over it,so don't give me that nonsense.And once again for the umpteen time the majority was for the war because of lies of WMD,no other reason,we were actually there to protect our oil interests,it was the first thing we secured,ask anyone there.

Yes single bullet ,for years Saddam came into the streets,sure after we attacked he did not,I'm not talking about after,I was talking about when he was the same evil dictator for years and no thought of war,we could have easily done a single bullet.We do that all the time,we had Bin Laden in our sights too,booom,but no,we had to let him walk away and now we spend tens of billions down the toilet to find him.Now its so many years later they have grown beyond belief,so whats the point,are we made of money.See Bush loved spending our money on saving oil interests and not on alternative energies,so that where Obama is the opposite,but then again Obama is not from an Oil company family as Bushes were.Why do you think Bushes have so many Saudi friends...oil !

I was against the war because we were after Bin Laden not Saddam.As a minority at least I know how to focus on a objective,had we got him or gone broke looking we would have might not continued for lack of money with Saddam.

Let some other country be concerned with their freedom,I'll send them a thank you note.You watch in 30 years when we don't even use oil,you'll see how we ignore their pain as we do with Africa our other countries now that don't have oil.In Africa we watch millions be slaughtered yet freak because a tiny trace of that amount was gassed by Saddam,and we always use that as our point.What a joke,its only about oil.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 23
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Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 1:31:06 PM

I have been watching the news ! and feeling my business rebound and watching all my customers turning around,Look my friend you already have stated you live in a town short on opportunity,thats what happens always in smaller towns that have a main industry or two,stop looking at your town as the example for the whole country,thats why you are being so inaccurate on the rebounding all over.


Really? So you, one guy, is feeling your business rebounding and suddenly the "general consensus" is the economy is booming? Sorry, I ain't buying it. My station is right on a busy interstate and I talk to people from all 50, not just my "little burrow" of about 1 million total (including all the 'burbs and stuff) and the "general consensus" is it still sucks out there. The "general consensus" is Obama's policies have done squat and the "general consensus" is not real happy with him right now. Sorry to burst your bubble. Congrats on your business turning around (and I really do mean that--it's tough out there right now). But, did you do it or does Obama somehow get credit for it?


And once again for the umpteen time the majority was for the war because of lies of WMD


When have you ever heard me argue with that? I have never denied it. I just don't think it was lies, I think it was misinformation. Funny how definitions get distorted by whose guy is in charge. It's kind of like how the "Christmas day bomber" should have been on every no fly list in existence, but yet the ball was dropped there too. Bush gets blamed for the Iraq misinformation, but where is Obama's blame for this one? As usual it will be deflected, because nobody wants to lay anything on good ol Obama. It wouldn't be PC. Truth is, Obama shouldn't be blamed, anymore than Bush should have, it is what it is, misinformation.


Let some other country be concerned with their freedom,I'll send them a thank you note.


I agree 100%. Never in my short history of debate with you have I been more in agreement. And I feel that way about every other country we send aid in any way to, while our own people suffer, although I do realise we have to suck up to a few allies.


You watch in 30 years when we don't even use oil,you'll see how we ignore their pain as we do with Africa our other countries now that don't have oil.In Africa we watch millions be slaughtered yet freak because a tiny trace of that amount was gassed by Saddam,and we always use that as our point.What a joke,its only about oil.


I'm not sure it's only about oil. If it was why didn't we just take it over? I do truly believe there was that misinformation I spoke about above. I really believe there were MWDs in Iraq, but when we had to deal with UN requests for searchs and the like, there was plenty of time to move them--Iraq had allies too. I don't believe we'll ever know the real truth, just facts and half truths distorted to make their respective sides happy. It's sad it has to be this way.

Truthfully, I am getting disgusted with both sides these days, the failures of one side are the triumphs of the other. What is happening with this country? I'm beginning to think I'd like to see them all go jump in the lake with lead boots. I sincerly hope 2010 sees us in better shape than 2009, that's for sure.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 24
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/2/2010 2:56:22 PM
There was nobody else to vote for! We needed to get rid of the Republican gang that was bleeding us dry.

Obama said that we needed to take care of finishing the war with Al Qaeda, and it seemed, at least for a short while, that he was going to do that. Now I am not so sure that what he is doing is what he said that he would do. I am more inclined that what he is doing is sending troops to help with the building of the pipeline that some people here have referred to in previous messages. No wonder the general, with the full suport of the Republicans and the extreme-right wingers, was so forceful in making the demand for additional troops.

People need to remember that for the pipeline to be built someone will have to gain control of large parts of the Afghan territory. The more people get displaced from their ancestral lands, the more enemies we will have. We may choose to call them terrorists, but they may just be freedom fighters defending their land against the invaders and the oppressors.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 25
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History
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/3/2010 6:32:58 PM

Do you think so many people would have voted for OBAMA if they knew he was not going to get us out of Afghanistan ASAP?
Yes. I think that after 8 years, everyone knew that it would not be as simple as pulling out immediately. AFAIK, it wasn't one of his key election promises anyway.

But I think if he announced that America would be staying in Afghanistan for the next 40 years, then I think this would have made Americans re-think things.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 26
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History
Would you have voted for OBAMA if .......
Posted: 1/3/2010 11:06:46 PM
Excellent observations Dino...
Scorp...
"But I think if he announced that America would be staying in Afghanistan for the next 40 years, then I think this would have made Americans re-think things."
McCain offered us a hundred year war, and nukes on Iran.
I think Obama was a bit naive about how important the Caspian Sea pipeline project was to the people who run this country/government and quickly adopted the "strategy" in Afghanistan to placate his masters. Unfortunately, he is also adopting the expansion of US influence in the whole region that will ensure an expansion of the escalation of Al Queda and others who hate our imperialism over the oil fields.

Mark LeVine's piece on the $30 billion underwear is a must read to put reality into perspective.
http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=272706
Every time we hit back at evolving reactions, we react perfectly to their plans. Say "yemeni enemy" three times real fast without fumbling...
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