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 Settleforthis
Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 1
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CarpPage 1 of 1    
More specifically, silver and bighead that were imported to the U.S. from Asia in the mid-80's. They have already come to dominate the Mississippi River and many of it's tributaries, and efforts are being made to prevent their spread into the great lakes. I'm posting this partially as a PSA for those that may soon be affected (Residents of Michigan, Ohio, Ontario etc. I'm looking at you), and general discussion of the topic. However, I'm looking for specific input on two issues:

1. What should we rename them? They aren't going away, so......"If you can't beat em, eat em" is probably our best option to salvage some measure of win from this ecological tragedy. There is currently no market for the fish in N. America, and obviously the name 'Carp' is one roadblock towards creating one. 'Illini Sole' has been suggested, but I really just don't see myself sitting down at a restaurant and being excited to order 'Illini anything'.

Any other thoughts on creating a market for them? How could we introduce them into the American diet? I've never actually eaten them, but I've read that they are fairly bony and may be best suited for fish sticks / sandwiches.

2. How else should we use this resource? Eating, fertilizer, pets.....any other uses?
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 2
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Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 9:48:18 AM
Some how they have to be kept out of the Great Lakes... ...

I have wondered the same thing.... Food? Do they taste like a tire? Or? Food for hogs?
at least fertilizer....

Seems like they would be easy take a barge out and they will jump in>>>>
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 3
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Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 11:52:14 AM
A similar situation with the Lamprey in the great lakes years ago, possible source of fertilizer, would have to do some research to see how they could be best be used and control the population.
 Chiny®™©
Joined: 7/2/2006
Msg: 4
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Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 11:59:46 AM
A very bony meal. Perhaps if you de-meat the carp skeleton and then use the bone free meat to manufacture fish fingers, fish cakes or fish burgers for the frozen pre-manufactured market. I used to eat Thai fish cakes made from bone free carp flesh in Bangkok and they were delicious. But cooked whole carp was just too bony to bother with.......well for me, I mean.

Another suggestion would be to net large quantities of the pest and chuck-em in the industrial grinder to be used as fertiliser or as a food for fresh water crayfish/prawn/trout farming. Probably a good chance that the tuna farming industry might be interested as well? Might also be a good source of fresh food for the water birds kept in Zoos etc.

Oh......the uses are endless if you have the resources at your disposal.
 jack-d-ripper
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 5
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Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 12:11:57 PM
.

Net them>>>>> No.... just play Hip Hop and they jump on the boat....

How about a Mac Dollar burger?

Too environmental for Romney at Burger King....

The other major problem is the LionFish.... ruining the pacific...
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 6
Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 1:40:51 PM
They killed a bunch of Asian Carp in a canal near Lockport, IL to keep them from getting to Lake Michigan. They are using electronic barriers. So--please no fishing or swimming or you'll get jolted!

But--along with it they are killing alot of our native fish--Bass, Channel Cats, native carp,etc
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 7
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Carp
Posted: 12/5/2009 10:11:58 PM
there are no "native" carp......all carp species were imported.....at first for food.......but not many people eat them . as with most non native species.....[brown trout and whitebass/striped bass hybreds being exceptions].......they are a pest and a danger to native fishes....hopefully.a commercial use will be found
 TooShadows
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 8
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Carp
Posted: 12/8/2009 4:00:18 PM
Carp were a delicacy in Europe,and that's why they were brought to this continent. Trouble is,people just don't like eating bottom feeding fish like carp and suckers. Properly prepared,carp is as good as any other fish,but until most people can accept the idea of eating it carp is just not going to take off as a food fish.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 9
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Carp
Posted: 12/8/2009 5:29:51 PM
These carp are invasive exotics, brought in to try to correct previous stupid human tricks, which in turn, turned into even more stupid human tricks. Here in the Tennessee Valley, hydrilla and milfoil, two other introduced invasive exotics, plants, were introduced into native habitats. The eurasian carps were introduced to try to control previous stupid introductions of eurasian weeds with not local predators and became themselves, just another problem. Invasive exotics are part of "free trade" that refuses to accept responsibility for the consequences and negative implications of moving ecosystem destroying species at will, at random,and with impunity and stupidity.


http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/publications/lovins_omega.html
The connections turn out to be crucial. In Borneo in the fifties, the Dayak
people had malaria. The World Health Organization had a solution: they would spray DDT all over, which they did. The DDT killed the mosquitoes, and the malaria declined; so far, so good. But of course, there were side effects. The roofs of the houses, for example, started to fall down on people's heads, because the DDT had also killed tiny parasitic wasps, which had previously controlled the thatch-eating caterpillars, which then proliferated and munched up the thatching. Then the colonial government solved that problem by giving people tin roofs, but folks were driven nuts by lack of sleep because of the noise of the tropical rain on the tin roofs at night. Meanwhile, among other problems, the DDT-poisoned bugs were quietly being eaten by geckos, little lizardy critters, and they in turn were eaten by cats, so the DDT built up in the food chain and killed the cats. Without the cats, the rats flourished and multiplied, and soon the World Health Organization was threatened by potential outbreaks of typhus and sylvaticplague. It was therefore obliged to parachute 14,000 live cats into Borneo—”Operation Cat Drop,” courtesy of the British Royal Air Force out of Singapore.
 Byrd
Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 10
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Carp
Posted: 12/8/2009 6:22:55 PM
Years ago when I was a kid some friends who were quite good making Soul food turned me on to some carp they caught from the Chicago river, it was quite good. Kinda like catfish. They might have been pulling one on me because the Chicago river might be a scarey place to dine from but that's what they told me.
 hbon
Joined: 6/23/2006
Msg: 11
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Invasive Species
Posted: 12/8/2009 7:37:07 PM

Posted By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Posted 3 days ago



A decision in the U. S. could come within days on whether to temporarily close a vital Chicago area shipping waterway in an increasingly desperate bid to stop the invasive Asian carp from reaching the Great Lakes, an Obama administration adviser said Friday.

Cameron Davis, the Great Lakes adviser to the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency, told The Associated Press that discussions were under way about shutting the O'Brien Lock while crews poison part of the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal to kill the giant carp.

"It's going to happen soon," he said about a decision. "We're talking, best guess, within the next two or three days."

Before making a final decision, officials want to finish searching for Asian carp and conduct other tests along the canal to pinpoint where they might be located, Davis said. If officials do choose to close the lock, it would shut down immediately.

Authorities are trying to make sure the voracious carp don't reach Lake Michigan where they could starve out smaller, less aggressive competitors and cause the collapse of the $7 billion-a-year Great Lakes sport and commercial fishing industry.

But closing the lock could also disrupt the movement of millions of tons of iron ore, coal, grain, salts and other goods.

The American Waterways Operators, a trade group representing the tug and barge industry, said Friday that a safety zone set up by the U. S. Coast Guard to search for Asian carp near the O'Brien Lock already made it impassable for commercial vessels.

"De facto it is closed ... They're playing with words on this," said Lynn Muench, a senior vice president for the group. "Our vessels cannot go through to Lake Michigan. We cannot transit."



The Chicago Diversion is strictly a human intervention intended to facilitate the movement of goods. It's use as a sanitation conduit was an added attraction.
At least Washington seems to be aware of the situation.

I'm not sure that I would want to eat anything that came from that watershed. Processing these fish into a commercial animal/fish food would also be a concern.

All season live trapping would ensure that only the nuisance species would be removed. Using them as a fertilizer has my vote.

Cooperation between Canadian and American researchers has finally resulted in some
control of the Lamprey problem. Hopefully the Asian Carp solution won't be decades in the making. The alteration of an ecosystem is serious business.
 FriendlyFreeSpirit
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 12
Invasive Species
Posted: 12/9/2009 1:10:35 AM
Carp are a huge problem here in Victoria, Australia - specifically for the Murray River which flows through three states. Carp is now the most common fish in this truly mighty river.

Since carp were first introduced in Australia, our river systems have suffered massive changes. Changing natural flows have impacted on native fish, while farming practices, industry and urban development have contributed pollution to our waterways. These activities have created an ideal environment for carp while at the same time disadvantaging our native fish.
* Carp compete with some native fish for food and spawning sites.
* When in large numbers, they can increase the turbidity (browness) of the water through their bottom dwelling feeding.
* They can increase erosion of stream banks, channels and levees by undermining them, causing them to slump.
* They can infect native fish with the anchor worm (a parasite) that can prevent spawning and can be fatal.

Commercial fishers have continually fished Carp since 1970. Carp is already processed into fertilizer, fish bait, stock feed, burley, fish seasoning, and as well fresh fish for restaurants.

Carp are the most farmed and eaten fish species in the world. In Australia they are eaten in restaurants, frozen, canned and dried. They are also exported to Eastern Europe. There is even an Australian recipe book for carp.
Controlling carp will be a combination of improving river management, using chemicals and genetic manipulation. Efforts to improve river management are already in place in many areas. They included the work of fish, land and water agencies, the Murray Darling Association, Landcare, catchment management organizations, local government, the National Carp Taskforce, community groups, researchers and the Murray-Darling Basin Commission. New procedures are being developed for improving water allocations to balance the needs of human consumption with those of the environment, including native fish. Combined with other integrated management techniques, they can achieve a great deal in managing and eventually controlling this fish - taken from the Save The Murray.

I think it makes a fantastic garden fertilizer. Check out this site: website.http://www.charliecarp.com/products_organic.htm
 WantaSmart1
Joined: 8/18/2008
Msg: 13
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Invasive Species
Posted: 12/9/2009 5:08:12 AM
Seems the real invasive species always seems to be humans. I haven't heard of any invasive species - be it plant or animal - that wasn't the result of stupid human tricks.

Why do almost all the invasives always seem to have little legitimate use?
 FriendlyFreeSpirit
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 14
Invasive Species
Posted: 12/9/2009 7:00:23 PM

Trouble is,people just don't like eating bottom feeding fish like carp and suckers. Properly prepared,carp is as good as any other fish,but until most people can accept the idea of eating it carp is just not going to take off as a food fish

It also doesn't help that carp has got to be one of the ugliest looking things on this planet..yuck.
 steveemac
Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 15
Carp
Posted: 12/9/2009 11:23:26 PM

What should we rename them?
If they get into the Great Lakes, I think, "The Fish That Crippled Wisconsin's Tourist Industry" would be appropriate.
 Settleforthis
Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 16
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Carp
Posted: 12/11/2009 12:58:35 PM

Why do almost all the invasives always seem to have little legitimate use?


If brought over intentionally, they are often very good at what their intended (and often legitimate) purpose was. With carp, and many others, one of the many problems is that they are too good at what they do. The carp were originally used to eat algae and other 'muck' that comes along with inland fish farming. They were extremely beneficial in that capacity. They became a problem when they were washed out of the landlocked ponds and into open waterways. In the open waterways, they out-compete the fish that had been occupying a similar niche. In addition to out-competing other species, they grow too big and too fast to be predated......so by out-competing the prey of these species, the carp starve other species out of existence.

There are also many other species of animals and plants that were intentionally brought over for a specific purpose and were, for the most part, only beneficial. In those cases, we just don't hear about them or aren't reminded that they too were invasive species. When was the last time you saw people up in arms to eradicate the 'Peruvian Potato' or the 'European Honey Bee'?


It also doesn't help that carp has got to be one of the ugliest looking things on this planet..yuck.


Look up pictures of a Turbot, Halibut, Flounder, or other flat fish. 'Orange Ruffy' (used to be called a slimehead) is also pretty ugly.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 17
Carp
Posted: 12/11/2009 1:43:58 PM
I've never eaten carp myself but I think they could maybe be smoked. Over the years our family has been catching suckers (which is another rough fish) and smoking them. And smoked sucker fish is pretty good eating.
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