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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.      Home login  
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 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 1
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.Page 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
I am sure most of you have heard the story of Amanda Knox.
She is the Washington state student who was recently convicted of murder, for the death of her British roommate Meredith Kercher. Two others were also convicted of the crime.

After the murder, Ms. Knox changed her story several times, including accusing a local business man of the crime (he had a rock solid alibi with several witnesses and CCTV).
A knife with Ms. Knox's DNA on the handle and Ms. Kercher's blood on the blade, was found at Ms. Knox's boyfriend/co-accused appartment.
Ms. Knox claimed someone had broken into their appartment through a window, but the police quickley discovered that said window was broken from the inside.
Phone records show that Ms. Knox and her boyfriend both turned their cellphones off, at the exact same time, the early morning the murder took place, and later the pair turned their phones back on at the same time.
There is also evidence that Ms. Knox and Ms. Kercher were not getting along, due to Ms. Knox's partying and Ms. Kercher's cleanliness.

Now there is a group of Americans claiming Ms. Knox did not recieve a fair trial, and the whole thing was a witch hunt.
This group seems to feel that only an American court should be able to convict an American girl. The whole thing reminds me of the kid who took a bunch of lashings for vandalizing in Singapore, and a bunch of Americans fought for him to take no punishment.

Without being there, I can't say for sure what happened. But in my opinion, Ms. Knox did recieve a fair trial.
 honeyangel1985
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 2
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 2:08:53 PM
She mostly certainly did receive a fair trial. She committed the crime in Italy and thus was tried in that country, which is accurate. Tried in the US? No way. She didn't commit the crime there and the US will just pat her on the back for what she did which was commit murder and sexually assault. She drugged her victim prior to sexually assault her and slashing her throat. She did cartwheels and laughed in the courtroom during her trial, which is degrading to her victim and to her victim's family.

Apparently she is going to appeal but has to wait 3 months before doing so. The process could take years apparently.
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 3
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 2:10:07 PM
If you are living in another country and you commit a crime, then you are subject to that country's legal system. Period. What about all the middle eastern people that are being tried in New York civilian court for 9/11? What gives us the right to try those people? The fact that they were living in the US at the time the offenses were committed.


How about all the people that get caught trafficking drugs in southeast Asia? We don't here about how they didn't get a fair trial, and chances are they didn't get a trial at all.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 4
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 2:16:28 PM

Now there is a group of Americans claiming Ms. Knox did not recieve a fair trial, and the whole thing was a witch hunt.
This group seems to feel that only an American court should be able to convict an American girl. The whole thing reminds me of the kid who took a bunch of lashings for vandalizing in Singapore, and a bunch of Americans fought for him to take no punishment.

There are plenty of Australians who travel overseas and suffer from this delusion also.

Like it or not, when you are in a foreign country, the legal system of your own nation does not apply.

In Australia we don't have the death penalty, we view it as barbaric, but this is irrelevant if we go to Singapore, Thailand or Bali and traffic drugs, which attracts the death penalty there.

First-world citizenship does not automatically give you a 'get-out-of-gaol-free' pass when you travel.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 5
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 3:35:23 PM
Does this remind anybody else of that kid back in like '93 that ended up getting cained for vandalizing Singapore?
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 6
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 4:12:00 PM
It seems like this group of Americans who are "convinced" she didn't do it offer mostly this as the thrust of their defense of her: She's American, this part of Italy (like other parts of Europe) is "Left'ish and anti-American"-leaning, and therefore she's obviously innocent. They're acting as though she was captured on a dubious "drug-smuggling" charge in some third-world country and has not been accorded any due process. You can be sure if an Italian national commits or is involved in a murder here, these same Americans wouldn't be saying, ' Well he should immediately be sent back to the EU; America can not properly try an Italian....'

Personally, although I know the justice system over there can leave something to be desired at times (like almost everywhere........ hey, OJ Simpson most likely got away with murder right here...), I think she did it or was an accomplice to it. She should consider herself lucky she committed or was involved in this kind of crime in the EU and not the US in fact. Here she'd be in a max-security womens' penitentiary and they'd likely have given her life. Over there she only got 25 yrs. And conditions there in prisons (though not the Ritz, granted) are IMO a bit 'looser' and easier than here as well. http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20326943,00.html

She wouldn't get this kind of treatment after convicted of murder in a US prison,

' ' ... she is allowed to wear her own clothes and has a private bathroom with a shower that she shares with a cell-mate, a 53-year-old fellow American woman from New Orleans who is serving out a 4-year drug sentence.

Knox also has access to weekly appointments with a hairstylist and is free to watch television or play ping-pong for recreation. She is not allowed access to email but can correspond with her college professors by writing letters.

"We are trying to work out how I can talk to them," she said. "I miss stimulating conversations."

In her darkest hour, Knox said she found support from an unexpected source – the unusually comforting prison guards.

After the Dec. 5 verdict that found her guilty of murdering 21-year-old Meredith Kercher, who was found in her bedroom with her throat slit (Knox's ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25, and a 20-year-old African man, Rudy Guede, were also convicted in connection with the crime), Knox said, "I was feeling horrendous. The guards helped me out. They held me all night." ... ' '

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/57166,news,nothing-third-world-about-italian-justice-amanda-knox-meredith-kercher


' ' ... Perugia's judges and prosecutors have a reputation for being among the toughest and most accomplished in all of Italy...

One wonders what the ever-sceptical Aurelio Zen would have made of the conviction of Amanda Knox and her friend Raffaele Sollecito. Perhaps the more intemperate critics should read his chronicles to get a deeper understanding of the Italian way of law. After all, laws of Rome and the jurisprudence of Italians like Cesare Beccaria in the Enlightenment are the building blocks of our law today, almost as much as Magna Carta and the Constitution of the United States.

Amanda Knox may or may not have her conviction overturned on appeal, we shall see. But American critics who write off the Seattle girl's hearing in Perugia as some sort of Third World farce are way off the mark. ' '
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 7
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 4:42:45 PM
She mostly certainly did receive a fair trial. She committed the crime in Italy and thus was tried in that country, which is accurate. Tried in the US? No way. She didn't commit the crime there and the US will just pat her on the back for what she did which was commit murder and sexually assault. She drugged her victim prior to sexually assault her and slashing her throat. She did cartwheels and laughed in the courtroom during her trial, which is degrading to her victim and to her victim's family.

Apparently she is going to appeal but has to wait 3 months before doing so. The process could take years apparently.


^^ Correct. They're appalled when one (likely guilty, in any case) American is convicted of a crime, after due process in a perfectly legitimate legal system in a European nation, and is very well-treated in her prison as well. Yet I imagine many of them continue to applaud the indefinite holding by America's gov't of foreign nationals in "dark prisons" in unknown conditions in various places around the world (no lawyers, no trial dates set --- except the ones Obama is now going to finally try) . Secret prisons such as at Guantanamo; on Diego Garcia; at the Bagram air base in Afghanistan; "extraordinary rendition" victims kidnapped and likely tortured in various human rights-abusing Eastern European countries such as Romania & even Poland, & Arab countries such as Egypt. http://www.counterpunch.org/worthington08022008.html
 earthlingsRevenge
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 8
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 4:46:36 PM
I was hoping someone brings this topic here so I can scream
at the systamatic 'foreign bashing' that is going on all over the media.

There is another lesson to be learned from this story which media and
most American do not pay much attention to.

Americans, Brits etc., specially single young woman, when they visit a foreign country,
they think they are sexually liberated. They do things, they wouldn't
normally do in USA or home country. Do you remember the girl who vanished
in Aruba a few years back. That is another example.

This was obviously a sexual experimentation of this two girls in a foreign
country with two local strangers (boyfriend, ya sure..). These two girls should have had a
better heads on their shoulders. A little 'smart' could have prevented this tragedy
and saved us from bashing the Italian court system.

Ok, I'm done.
 BBQ Spider
Joined: 11/9/2009
Msg: 9
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 6:56:28 PM
She did it. She did the shit out of it. If they let her out, she'll do it again because it was a thrill kill.

In one of her stories, she was in the house and heard the screams, in another story she was well away from the house with an alibi.

Lizzie Borden did it too, she didn't get convicted because nobody at that time could believe a young girl could do a thing like that. I think we know better now.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 10
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History
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:28:40 PM
One, I think she's guilty, and two, when in Italy, you live under their laws.
 ZenBeth
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 11
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:31:41 PM
The ONLY problems I have with the Italian justice system is they don't seal off a crime scene, don't wear latex gloves when inspecting a crime scene, dot photograph and collect evidence in a secure manner, so one can have cross contamination galore. Not to mention the jury is allowed to read/watch the press, and even talk to the press. Never mind that it could have been a stranger whom the dead woman had met who in sex play gone bad, killed her.

Had Ms. Knox not been pretty and her family able to be with her, I doubt this would have made the news. The one thing I hope that does change is how they collect evidence and the need for DNA testing like we have here in the states.

But also remember if you are poor in America, regardless you race, you don't get the great lawyers and lab testing that someone well off gets. Since I read Italian and understand the language I get a different read, than what the American papers are reporting. And realize there are A LOT of Italians who have loved ones in prison there who also believe changes need to be done in how evidence is collected and how suspects are questioned. They like that the US and Britain tape and video questioning of suspects so they have a record of what was asked and how questions were answered. As well as the right to an attorney from the get go.

~Beth~
 sammylg
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 12
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 8:03:04 AM
I think the case we should be concerned about are those three hikers who crossed into Iran by accident and now may face the death penalty as "spies".
 whothehellknows
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 13
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 8:42:09 AM
It doesn't matter what the evidence for the case actually is, for many ANY American charged with a crime in a foreign country just reinforces their belief that the world is out to get us, one citizen at a time.

I have zero knowledge about the details of this case, but I know Italy is a fairly decent country. It's legal system has flaws like every country's, but generally it works well and gets the job done. Based on that, I respect the jury's decision. Just because Knox is an attractive coed with a kinky sex life doesn't mean she is above being a killer.

If she were overweight, ugly, or this did not have a sex aspect to it, it would never have made the news here.
 whothehellknows
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 14
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 8:46:00 AM

think the case we should be concerned about are those three hikers who crossed into Iran by accident and now may face the death penalty as "spies".


Well when you are warned repeatedly and insist on hiking in that area anyway, you kind of deserve what you get. Hiking in a war zone, right near the border of a country that we have had a very dysfunctional relationship for the past 30 years, and then possibly crossing into their territory... they took the risk and lost. You have to respect the laws of foreign countries and apparently this is par for the course in Iran.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 15
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 9:53:27 AM

Well when you are warned repeatedly and insist on hiking in that area anyway, you kind of deserve what you get. Hiking in a war zone, right near the border of a country that we have had a very dysfunctional relationship for the past 30 years, and then possibly crossing into their territory...


Yeah I know....though I don't envy these hikers the likely conditions of their imprisonment, one has to wonder how exactly they wound up hiking around there?? "Honey let's finally do that backpacking trip we've been talking about..."
"Great, where to?"
"Where else but one of the most romantic places in the world; the border regions between Iran and northern Iraq..."
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 16
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Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 12:06:00 PM

Yeah I know....though I don't envy these hikers the likely conditions of their imprisonment, one has to wonder how exactly they wound up hiking around there?? "Honey let's finally do that backpacking trip we've been talking about..."
"Great, where to?"
"Where else but one of the most romantic places in the world; the border regions between Iran and northern Iraq..."


I agree that it seems so odd but I have heard from some that have hiked that region years ago that it is one of the most beautiful places to see in the world. Other than beauty another common characteristic of mountain hikers is the adrenaline rush so it's conceivable going to a region with some risk might provide that rush for them.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 17
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 12:09:22 PM
I agree Ismene2. The "anti-American" thing is a non-defense. Firstly, Italy (even in the oftentimes more left-leaning northerly areas) is hardly the biggest hotbed of anti-Americanism anyway, never really has been (IMO at least ; sure you'll find your typical sentiments which one can find almost anywhere in Europe regarding US behavior over the last 7 yrs or so, but that doesn't necessarily indicate a blanket hatred for all things American in any way....much less any inherent dislike towards American travelers or students....ridiculous...). Further, think of it for a moment if it were the other way around and some recently-arrive Italian was involved in a major crime here, and then post-conviction some Italians and Italian-Americans were criticizing the strength of the case and saying the whole thing was the result of latent anti-Italian sentiment in the US, and the US court systems are inherently unjust unless perhaps you have money, and so on... Actually that kind of happened here once, and they killed both the convicted regardless of all the outcry here and abroad ; Sacco & Vanzetti.

The US didn't just say, "well we'll give them the option of being repatriated and exiled from here and never allowed to return". No, they had to have their full pound of flesh, which in that case was the mens' deaths by execution. And as an interesting "postscript", that case had many repercussions and subsequently led to even more death and acrimony because at the mens' wake, their Italian friends had placed a wreath that read, "Aspettando l'Ora di Vendetta" (Awaiting the Hour of Vengeance), and that was then followed by the Wall Street Bombing of 1920, believed to be a "retaliation", where 38 people were killed and 400 injured (one of the prime suspects was a former comrade of theirs named Mario Buda). The brother of the man who initially called the police on Sacco & Vanzetti also had his house destroyed by a bomb, and bombs were detonated in the New York subway, in a Protestant church in Philly, and at the home of the mayor of Baltimore. One of the jurors in the trial had his house bombed, and a year after the executions, a bomb destroyed the front part of the home of the actual executioner. Even the Judge in the case had his home wrecked by a bomb attack and had to live under 24 hour guard the rest of his life.
 god_of_rock
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 18
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 2:02:02 PM
yea, she's a sort of cute, pixieish white female from the USA, so the hue & cry is that she couldn't have done it, or she must be innocent, or at least sent 'home' from Italy

same reason people get in an uproar about cute baby harp seals but don't care about millions of slaughtered chickens, cattle, pigs, etc.

the cuteness factor

if she had been fugly, obese, older, black or a male, likely no-one would have heard about it, or cared.

she took teh cahne by being in Italy and doing her kinky shite, wch may well ahve includied killing

fukk her, there's more important things to worry about in the world

hope the USA won't attack Italy, already pretty busy in Iraq & Afghanistan
 god_of_rock
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 19
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 2:41:51 PM
yea the victim Meridith Kercher isn't quite as cute as Amanda Knox.

so Knox wins the battle of the cuteness
 sammylg
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 20
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 6:57:07 PM
"Hardly any comparison with the original topic. "

You're right, they aren't the same thing because Amanda Knox got a fair trial in a first world nation and the right to appeal. While those "stupid" hikers rot in jail in despot dictatorship.

There is no comparison when it comes to rights of justice.
 sammylg
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 21
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 6:59:05 PM
"if she had been fugly, obese, older, black or a male, likely no-one would have heard about it, or cared."

Actually, to be fair, it was the ITALIANS and ENGLISH that made that into an issue, not the Americans.

As for the rest of your post, since it seems like you were losing your grip on English, I'll just ignore it.

What does "she took teh cahne by being in Italy and doing her kinky shite, wch may well ahve includied killing" mean?
 acuddler
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 22
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 9:45:37 PM
She is guilty. Even if she did not use the knife she covered up for he who did, and that makes her "an equally culpable accessory"...just as guilty. She also tried to frame an innocent man. Innocent gals don't do that. She claimed she never knew the African guy who was convicted of the killing. Yet, HER cell phone records show she called him many times...before, and on the day of, the murder. Who calls that often to someone they don't know? She lied about her whereabouts at the time of the killing, then changed her story...several times. Innocent people don't do that. The first guy-Guede-did it with Amanda's help. Drive a bank robber to and from the robbery,and never go in/shoot anyone, and you are still guilty of the robbery, and murder, when the robber who is inside-while you are in the car-kills a teller. That is the law.
 acuddler
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 23
Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/14/2009 9:53:54 PM
If they are stupid enough to hike in Iran/Iraq, I want them dead before they breed children even more stupid than they are. Who is going to control our nukes, air traffic, etc, if everyone is as stupid as these clowns...or more stupid than them? Were they in Iraq by accident? Were they in that part of the globe by accident? When you play with fire, you will ultimately get burned.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 24
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Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/15/2009 10:59:24 AM

I want them dead before they breed children even more stupid than they are.


I understand that the hikers didn't think through the consequences and made an ill-advised choice providing they AREN'T spies.

But that statement is stupid to the point that I believe the person making it qualifies for that same "cleansing" IMHO.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 25
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Amanda Knox, convicted murderer or railroaded by Italy.
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:08:02 AM
there was so much evidence against her, if this 'trial' had taken place in the usa, she would be on death row, she had a very fair trial, and a very lenient sentence , the girl she murdered was not so lucky, she was tortured and died a slow death in agony....
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