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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!      Home login  
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 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 2
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!Page 1 of 1    
Short answer, yes.

However, the experiment involving atomic clocks you are referring to is actually one involving Special Relativity, which speaks to frames of reference at various speeds in relation to the speed of light. Gravity is covered by General Relativity.

Density variations in the Earth's crust do result in variations in local gravity, however, the differences are so minute as to be statistically insignificant. In order to experience substantial changes to the flow of time, you have to get close to the event horizon of a black hole.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 4
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/20/2010 8:17:09 AM
Unlikely since the variations are, again, infinitesimal. More likely, it's a neurological effect. A burst of adrenalin such as during a car accident, a ramp up of endorphines, is going to have far more effect on the brain's perception than minor local changes in gravity.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 6
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/20/2010 8:36:55 AM

or could the brain act as a sort of amplifier to these infinitesimal variations and the pharmocological after effects you explain be part of the end result of the amplification ?


It could be magic fairies or unicorns. The question is, is it likely. It depends on your understanding of the word "infinitesimal."
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 8
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/20/2010 8:54:52 AM
The question really is moot. But I'm guessing you're coming from the "okay, if local gravity changes can change our consciousness, what's the 'grand alignment' in 2012 going to do when the sun aligns with the galaxy's core?"

Except it's a myth.

On December 21, 2012, the sun will be no closer to the relative position in the sky of the galaxy's central point than it was on December 21, 2009.

here's the proof

Core of the galaxy (RA refers to "right ascension" in hours, minutes and seconds, Dec refers to "declination" in degrees, minutes and seconds): RA 17h45m40.04s, Dec -29deg 00' 28.1"

Sun's position on Dec. 21, 2009: RA 17 h, 59m 44 s, Dec -23deg 26' 28".

On Dec. 21, 2012: the sun’s position will be RA 18h 0m 57s, Dec. -23 deg 26' 22"
 hyoid
Joined: 5/12/2009
Msg: 10
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/20/2010 12:08:25 PM
No.
It DOES affect the rate of time but immersed in the gravity well as we are, there is no way to tell that it's running slower.
Just as a passenger on a slightly sub-C vessel would notice no difference. The view out the porthole would be different but his wristwatch would tick at the same apparent rate. The passenger has no way of knowing that the hour hands on clocks he's passing at 300Mmeters/sec are spinning around too fast to see.
 thecdcisreal
Joined: 6/18/2008
Msg: 11
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/20/2010 2:55:16 PM
I believe the main question in the OP has been answered. However, in response to your comments about the "feeling" that time has "sped up" or "slowed down," I heard a psychologist on NPR talking about an experiment they performed. When people thought things were "fun," time felt like it went by faster and was more enjoyable. When people thought the same activity was not "fun," time felt like it went by slower. This is to be accepted and is part of common thought, "Time flies when you're having fun!" So there does seem to be a scientific backing to this comment.

As such, fun is the brain's chemical response to a positive stimuli. If, for you, "infinitesimal" stimuli induce fun, then, well, congrats!
 Off the Deep End
Joined: 12/8/2008
Msg: 12
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Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/21/2010 1:35:40 AM

So my question is does gravitational pulls effect the way we as humans expereince the rate of duration of time flow from the felt experience and observational perspective ?


No from the felt experience perspective, but yes from the observational perspective. Here's what I mean: Suppose you and your twin brother are a certain fixed distance from a black hole. You decide to approach the surface of the black hole, leaving your brother behind, but before falling into the hole you blast your booster rockets and hover above its surface for a little while. When you look at your brother you will notice that his clock is running fast compared to yours, and when he looks at you he will see that your clock is running slow. However, neither one of you will actually feel any change in your personal flow of time. When you leave the surface of the black hole and return to your brother's location you'll be able to verify that you indeed aged less than him, so the effect was real, even though neither of you actually "felt" it--you were only able to observe it happening to the other guy.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 14
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/21/2010 10:50:52 AM
Note: the experiment above will not work if you are driving a 'hog' because the bike will create a spacetime wave ahead that will clear the highway!
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 16
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/21/2010 11:05:11 AM
Actually, those props belong to Being and Nothingness. It's all about frame of reference. From your own frame of reference if you're travelling close to the speed of light or falling into a black hole, time continues at its regular rate. You do, however, perceive the evolution of the universe external to your frame of reference speed up incredibly fast.

To the external stationary observer, however, the closer to the speed of light, or the closer to the black hole you get, they see you slow down nearly to a stop.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 18
Does gravity effect the way we experience the apperent flow of time !!
Posted: 1/21/2010 11:20:45 AM
is any observer fully stationary though seeing the earth is moving through space ?


Yes, Earth is moving through space, however, compared to the speed of light, it's almost at a standstill. That's why they're called "frames of reference."


and are blackholes just theory still or actually proven to exist ?


No theory is "just a theory." Either something is a theory, with a full range of observations that indicate the underlying principles are true, or not. Black holes are theoretical with a ton of evidence (or, at minimum, mathematical proofs) to support their existence. The motions of the star around the source of Cygnus X-1, the motion of stars and material around the core of our galaxy and the jets of M87 to name a few. Anything less and you're talking either hypothesis or even conjecture.


do anyone really have a clue ?


Why yes, yes they do. Far more than you are going to find in any "Einstein was wrong" website.
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