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 Metreau
Joined: 7/30/2004
Msg: 2
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Excellent topic to take a crack at. And seeing that it's my day off, I'll have plenty of time to contribute to this, and I hope everyone adds to it. Ok, my suggestion:

A provision that rewards people for maintaining good health. Kinda like AllState's Driver Insurance bonus check thing, only that it'd be applied to one's tax return in the form of a tax credit.

Ex: If a person lost weight, kept the weight off, and implemented lifestyle changes to maintain that weight, the person would recieve an extra $200 tax credit on their return. The person would have to get a check up from a doctor at least twice a year to qualify.

SIDENOTE EDIT: Who is trying to delete this forum?!? This is a topic that everyone needs to chime in on, especially those who've been in opposition to health care reform. For those who've been outspoken in the opposition, now's the time to propose a decent solution.

I think this thread needs to be pinned down, seriously. I vote NOT to have the thread deleted.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 3
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 7:23:18 AM
Hospitals should be made to set reasonable prices for the services they provide.

If a doctor charges $125 an hour for an office (just for example) and he sees you for 5 minutes, he should not be able to bill for the whole hour or an exaggerated part of that hour.

I second tort reform too, with caps on payouts. Loser pays is a good idea too, it will cut down on frivolous lawsuits.

Make insurance portable, and close up loopholes that allow companies to drop clients except under circumstances of fraud.

Raise the "poverty" level and make insurance available to those who truly cannot afford insurance but need it. At the same time, restrict emergency room visits to only emergenicies and stop the abuse which will help pay for the first part of this idea. Tort reform will also help make a more honest assessment on those instances, because of worries by hospitals over lawsuits, which cause lots of unnecessary testing to occur.

Allow adults less restrictions on staying on their parents insurance policies at discounted rates while they are single, without dependants, and still living at home.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 4
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 1:58:18 PM
Well, before we can begin to fix a problem, we first need to define the problem. IMO, one of the first points of debate on this issue, is coming to any kind of agreement on just how significant it is. In other words, how many people are actually affected? The number started out at 40 million during the Presidential campaign, jumped to 45 million shortly thereafter, was down to 35 million during Obama's speech to Congress back in September and now it's up to 50 million.

So, *I* would first address immigration reform and fix the damn border problem. Even if another amnesty is granted, we're sick of that cyclical revolving door process and the associated burden it places on our citizens and the health care system. At least then, a finite number of uninsured can be defined and then controlled.

Next, *we* need to determine the number of citizens who choose not to purchase health care and are pay-cash-as-you-go people (and have the resources and ability to do so). These folks shouldn't be counted as "uninsured", nor, should they be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine if they don't.

Once *we* determine how many people are actually uninsured, then we can start to develop ideas, cost/benefit analysis, etc.

One proposal I would make, is to allow 'children' to remain on their parents' insurance as long as they are attending college, working, or until they reach the age of 25. That would insure a few million right off the bat with the cost already being purchased by the parents/'children'.

From there, I'd want a health care reform task force/panel/agency, whatever set up and consisting of a cross section of insurance, medical, political, pharmacuetical (and whomever else is pertinent) personnel. Nothing huge...just a couple dozen folks who are assigned to operate openly, report fact finding and information, costs, comparison of other Country's systems, lessons learned, good/bad...the whole enchilada. It would force all sides to compromise rather than a bunch of career politicians giving lip service.





~ds~
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 5
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 2:29:10 PM

End state exclusion of some companies and allow all companies to sell in every state.

Anyone else here recall Obama's speech to Congress on health care back in September? C'mon, it was only 4 months ago...welllll, remember in his spirit of throwing the Republicans a bone...he said, hey we can try this. Do a test run, so to speak. You know, to make himself look all bipartisany. Welllll, what were the results of the test run? What State(s) have been selected to 'try' it out on? Anyone? Oh wait, that was a Republican proposal, so I'm sure it's off, errrr I mean at the bottom of the list.





~ds~
 Metreau
Joined: 7/30/2004
Msg: 6
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 4:49:53 PM
Well, before we can begin to fix a problem, we first need to define the problem. IMO, one of the first points of debate on this issue, is coming to any kind of agreement on just how significant it is. In other words, how many people are actually affected? The number started out at 40 million during the Presidential campaign, jumped to 45 million shortly thereafter, was down to 35 million during Obama's speech to Congress back in September and now it's up to 50 million.

So, *I* would first address immigration reform and fix the damn border problem. Even if another amnesty is granted, we're sick of that cyclical revolving door process and the associated burden it places on our citizens and the health care system. At least then, a finite number of uninsured can be defined and then controlled.

Next, *we* need to determine the number of citizens who choose not to purchase health care and are pay-cash-as-you-go people (and have the resources and ability to do so). These folks shouldn't be counted as "uninsured", nor, should they be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine if they don't.

Once *we* determine how many people are actually uninsured, then we can start to develop ideas, cost/benefit analysis, etc.

One proposal I would make, is to allow 'children' to remain on their parents' insurance as long as they are attending college, working, or until they reach the age of 25. That would insure a few million right off the bat with the cost already being purchased by the parents/'children'.

From there, I'd want a health care reform task force/panel/agency, whatever set up and consisting of a cross section of insurance, medical, political, pharmacuetical (and whomever else is pertinent) personnel. Nothing huge...just a couple dozen folks who are assigned to operate openly, report fact finding and information, costs, comparison of other Country's systems, lessons learned, good/bad...the whole enchilada. It would force all sides to compromise rather than a bunch of career politicians giving lip service.




Spot on! I definitely like (and respect) this post. These issues are the ones that need to addressed first before implementing an actual plan/law like this into effect. However, it's always nice to bring the ideas to the table so that everyone knows what they're working with.The dumbest ideas are the ones that are not proposed at all.

I also agree with those who say tort reform is a must. The unnecessary lawsuits need to be put to death and buried. I will propose another solution though:

How about we stop trying to ban childhood games like Dodgeball, tag, etc. from schools. If these type of games were still in place, there would actually be less childhood obesity. I would also say that parents need to encourage their kids to get outside more, even have them get a job like cutting grass or something. That ties in with my first solution (in regards to making lifestyle changes to lose/maintain weight), though.

Please, Monty, I'm a Republican.
In a few weeks after you guys have all contributed, I'll come back and close the thread by rejecting the whole thing. Especially if it will cost us POF'ers $845 billion.


This is a troubling and disappointing statement. However, I will say that I respect your honesty.
 bliss serendipity
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 8
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 6:18:38 PM

At which point the bill was adjusted to the standard doctor visit fee of $30


So that must mean the insurance company would collect $120! What a scam!!

Bliss
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 9
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 7:21:42 PM

Clean up the fraud waste and abuse in medicare and it would pay for itself to put those on medicare.

THIS too, is an excellent point. I recall one fraud ring in Michigan/Florida getting busted last spring or winter that had defrauded $60 (?) million from the system. ONE case! And yup, I realize there's fraud in the private sector, as well, but it seems to be pretty prevalent in the government run agencies.

Just as democrats want tighter regulations on Wall Street, banking institutions, corporations, etc. etc. etc., unless they are willing to implement tighter regulations and oversight on future entitlement programs...well, I find that a double standard in the least and two faced/hypocritical at worst.

It would be another agenda item for the task force...what are Countrys with UHC fraud, waste and abuse statistics? Who has the least and how effective is it? What are they doing to reduce it?







~ds~
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 10
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 9:21:40 PM
Oh ... I thought you were going to propose that Markus offer us (as a group) insurance.

We're certainly a large enough group ... shouldn't be a problem finding enough people who would want to participate ... right?

There's probably enough of us for several separate groups ... I could use some suggestions here. Let's see ...
**Those who can still reproduce can be in their own group ... but it will cost more because they're either still popping out the babies or making babies or needing abortions or "morning after" pills ... or tubal ligatomies or vasectomies. Once they can prove that they are no longer able to reproduce, then send them to the "Non-reproductive" (cheaper) group.

**Those in the Non-Reproductive" group ... must be able to prove they can no longer reproduce and will not need any coverage affiliated with births, or pregnancies or parenting any more children. (And no more adopting any more children in this group.) You old fart guys out there with no vasectomy will not be able to join those 0f us who are really and truly no longer reproducing. (I knew there was some sort of reward down the road for going through the change of life.) And just because a guy might have ED and cannot have an orgasm ... doesn't mean he automatically qualifies for our group. ED meds cost a lot of money and then the guys would be out there banging around and reproducing like rabbits.

Now some of you would perhaps say that we older people shouldn't get our insurance any cheaper since we use so many medications, but see we could probably strike up some sort of deal with the Canadian Pharmacies and get our meds for a lot less. Also, we're so forgetful, we forget to take them at least 1/4 of the time, so we really do use less pills.

Those of us with a written statement notarized from our children that they will take us in when we can no longer be on our own should get cheaper insurance since we won't be needing a nursing home down the road. (Hey those things can really suck your budget dry.)

Okay ... enough for starters. I'll see what else I can come up with.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 11
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 1/28/2010 9:22:03 PM
I suggest that everyone should be responsible for their own health care needs. However, before this could be in place, there are A LOT of changes that need to come about in order to make that possible. The first step would be the following:


1. People are living with "minimum wage", which makes it impossible for anyone to afford a proper living, let alone supporting their health care needs. Thus, the first step would be increasing minimum wage so that people are able to afford a living and at the same time find time to take care of themselves by having more physical activity.

2. Because of the fact that people live in poverty, most work 2 jobs to afford a living and pay the loans and mortgages. Therefore, most are busy with fast food products and can foods that have million different types of preservatives that create more health problems and more health costs.


- The biggest issue is capitalism and how people are kept right one inch above poverty line. In turn, it has created all sorts of problems in society, such as people not having time for themselves to enjoy physical activity, spending time with their own family and kids, eat proper healthy home-made meals that include all food groups.

- If people are allowed to make more money so that they can afford a living with one job and be able to spend time with their families, take care of themselves and their health, there wouldn't be much need to go to a doctor in the first place.

And...................

- If there is need to do it, you take some cash out of your bank account (NOT CREDIT CARD) and pay it yourself. :)
 bliss serendipity
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 15
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/1/2010 4:28:47 PM
^^^^^ Ah, Monty, I had a laugh when reading this. Langley Memorial Hospital, BC, has birthing centres, truly magnificent, wish they were available when I had my children. Well it turns out during one day last week that all centres were full, and moms-to-be who arrived at LMH were told to go to Tim Horton's (just down the road, although I think if I remember correctly, there is a Tim Horton's right in the hospital) and wait there. Of course, there is also a pizzeria right down the road too and some were told to go there. The comments on CBC's website were hilarious, hadn't laughed so hard in a long long time. Of course, being in labour, I wouldn't have been in the frame of mind to laugh, but still.....

CBC also commented that moms-to-be were told to leave home early during the Olympics b/c of traffic tie-ups, and closed roads, etc. This produced even more funny quips.

Bliss
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 16
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/1/2010 10:41:28 PM


Medicare for All.
Everybody In, Nobody Out!


Medicare is going to be insolvent in a year. Great plan you got there. I wonder who's going to pay for it all. Maybe the government can pay for it all by just printing the money.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 17
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/4/2010 6:20:33 AM

with far less money filtered out for administrative overhead than your insurance company now skims off


Obviously you don't know our government very well. There may not be at the beginning, but once the program got rolling, there would be a form to fill out for doctors to wind their watches and a committee to oversee it.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 18
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Posted: 2/4/2010 7:08:16 AM
I've worked for Medicare on and off for the past 12 years (as a nurse) and I can tell you one thing: They are watchdogs and they are the kind of watchdogs that I want an insurance company to be.

They have guidelines that we have to comply with when it comes to the care that we render and they are very consequential if you try to cheat them. When we take on home care for any of their patients, we have to document everything we do for them and based on the particular ailment we are dealing with, we have time frames we are allowed to be there. Additionally, there are expectations we have to meet and there better be a damn good reason if we exceed those time frames without meeting the expectations when we appeal for extended time frames to achieve our goal.

I have no problem what so ever working for them and being totally compliant with their guidelines. I hate it when agencies try to cheat and find other issues with a patient to keep them as a patient when our services are no longer needed.

BTW ... when you work for an agency that treats Medicare patients, you have to sign a paper that you understand their guidelines, and will comply with them and that you are also aware that you can be prosecuted for fraudulent actions ... and it lists the consequences if you are found guilty of fraud.

They also change the guidelines from time to time and so it does require keeping updated on Medicare policy and making the appropriate changes necessary in our care plans for our patients in order to be appropriate for both the patient and Medicare.

Bottom line ... I have no problem with Medicare overseeing government health care.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 19
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/5/2010 1:44:56 PM

You want to hear about government healthcare.

A Marine I know broke his arm. Go to the doctor right? Yup, got a referral to go get it casted.

Oh wait, what's that? The doctor is on leave and you have to wait TWO WEEKS to get it casted? That's too bad. Government healthcare, it's what you wanted right?

Who cares about customer satisfaction when you have nowhere else to go to.


Somehow that sounds like a made-up story. I am confident that our knowledgeable posters here can drill a few holes in your story.

I would venture to say that it is way out of character fro a marine to sit and wait for a doctor for two weeks before getting a cast on his arm. One would think that the Marine Corps would train the marines to be a little bit more assertive in a situation that demand immediate action. Wouldn't you agree?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 20
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/5/2010 2:56:52 PM



A Marine I know broke his arm.
Oh wait, what's that? The doctor is on leave and you have to wait TWO WEEKS to get it casted?
Who cares about customer satisfaction when you have nowhere else to go to.

Somehow that sounds like a made-up story. I am confident that our knowledgeable posters here can drill a few holes in your story.
... the Marine Corps would train the marines to be a little bit more assertive in a situation that demand immediate action. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for passing that along, Please give us the name of the Base.

Ya ... I think we need to have the name of that base.


First of all ... M E D I C A L L Y ... a broken limb is considered an emergency ... ALWAYS ... no matter what level of pain the grunt thinks can be or should be tolerated.

After consulting with several family members and friends (active and past active military) ... I was able to determine (overwhelmingly) that service members who live on a base where there is an available medical facility are encouraged and expected to consult for medical problems with a base medical team ... but always have the option to go directly to any emergency room ... most especially if the medical team has limited times (availability hours).

Military personnel who do not live on a military base are never encouraged to report to the base medical team first in the case of an emergency.

Each and everyone of them told me that all CO's would consider it very irresponsible of a service member not to seek medical help ... most especially if there was a broken limb involved.

I have experienced government health care and would welcome it (with open arms) back into my life.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 21
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/5/2010 8:13:43 PM




A Marine I know broke his arm.
The doctor is on leave and you have to wait TWO WEEKS to get it casted?

Somehow that sounds like a made-up story.

Please give us the name of the Base.

Ya ... I think we need to have the name of that base.


Pensacola Naval Station.

Wow ... in addition to the Naval Base Hospital, there are at least 3 other hospitals in Pensacola ... and many, many more in the immediate surrounding area.

Additionally, there are more than 29 Orthopaedists in Pensacola. So even if the (so-called) Marine did not want to go to a hospital, there was still the opportunity to get an appointment with a local Orthopaedist ... although any responsible Orthopaedist would have sent the Marine straight to the hospital first.

That was either one dumb Marine or ... a Marine looking for a reason not to deploy? Considering the deformity an untreated broken limb can cause, I'd say that would be grounds for some sort of medical discharge.

The whole story though is not a good example of not wanting national health care ... it's just an extremely good example of a dumb Marine.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 22
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/5/2010 10:45:08 PM


And FYI, the 2009 Medicare/Social Security trustees report (the most recent report) concludes that Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, while the Medicare trust fund for hospital expenses will pay out more in benefits than it collects this year and will be insolvent by 2017. NOT next year.


I have no idea why I said it would be insolvent in a year. The last figure I saw, IIRC, was 2019.



I'll bet you also didn't know that the government already pays for about half of the healthcare in this country--more than half by 2012.


I didn't know this.



But why is Medicare and Social Security trending toward insolvency? No it's not becasue the system is run badly, although anti-government, anti-tax morons want to believe that government doesn't work for people but corporations do.

Mainly it's because the cost of healthcare itself is rising much faster than overall inflation, for instance: healthcare costs rose nearly six percent last year while the economy shrank by about that percentage. Second, because Baby Boomers--the generation born after our vets came back from WWII--are now in their 60s and rapidly inflating the rolls of Medicare, while also retiring in droves and drawing Social Security retirement benefits.


So the answer is to put even more people on a system that's going to be insolvent in 7 years?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 23
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/5/2010 10:49:14 PM


First of all ... M E D I C A L L Y ... a broken limb is considered an emergency ... ALWAYS ... no matter what level of pain the grunt thinks can be or should be tolerated.


Our Marines aren't pansies ya know. I bet his drill sgt. told him to rub some dirt on it and walk it off. Pain is just weakness leaving the body.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 24
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The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/6/2010 9:22:04 AM

This is the nature of the beast. When your doctors literally have the right to go punch out whenever they feel like, and when less than 2% of doctors nationwide are Tricare approved - there is nowhere else to go.
Maybe when we get a national health care bill your employer will also subscribe?

Seems to me that knowing now what you know about your employee benefit plan ... you too might be in favor of a national health care bill.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 25
The proposed POF US Healthcare Bill
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:44:12 AM
Many of our friends on the left don't want reforms on medical malpractice lawsuits.

But would they want medical malpractice reforms under a Government run single payer type system?

I would assume the answer is no.
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