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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Everything happens for a reason?      Home login  
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 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 1
Everything happens for a reason?Page 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Please let me be the first to say it “I really need to find other things to keep my mind busy” because, these questions of mine are soooo trivial yet, there I go thinking about them... and yet, there you are answering them!

It is OFTEN said that “Everything happens for a reason”. What's this elusive reason everyone but me seems to know?

It seems to me that everything happens simply because “it did” and that's all. Trying to look beyond that ultimately becomes your way of thinking but not by any real fact as THE reason it did.

Your thoughts please :)
 ChefInJeans
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 2
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/3/2010 6:36:25 PM
The reason is the embodiment of the human races' feeling of insignificance on a universal scale. We don't know why bad things happen to good people and good things to bad people.


We're taught to be "good" because that's what pays off, but most times it doesn't play out that way, not immediately anyways. So we ask why, but if we answer that logically I.E. it doesn't matter what you do things just happen because they do, then our sense of right and wrong goes out the window.

So we say things happen for a reason, a mystical inexplicable force that is beyond comprehension, it frees us from having to answer the really hard questions while simultaneously reinforcing our systems of morals and ethics.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 3
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/3/2010 6:57:48 PM

It seems to me that everything happens simply because “it did” and that's all. Trying to look beyond that ultimately becomes your way of thinking but not by any real fact as THE reason it did.
I can see your point. But the only things that happen for no reason, are purely random things, that are not bound by any laws of logic or science. So if we say that things happen for no reason, we can only do that in an extremely limited way, that means it still happens for a reason, and even then, 90% of what happened happened for a reason, and at best only 10% happened for no reason.

Of course, that presents an even bigger problem for us. If things happen for a reason, then that means we might actually deserve some of the bad things that happen to us. Then the "nice guy" who moans that he never gets a girlfriend, might have to admit to himself that it's because he never bothers to make any effort. The girl who sleeps with every guy who flatters her, might have to admit that the reason that she gets used for sex, is that she makes it happen. The alcoholic might have to admit that his life is in a mess because he turns to alcohol all the time. The convict might have to admit that he's in prison because he was a lousy criminal. The one thing we can say is that most of the things in our lives are not totally under our control, but are substantially under our control, enough that it's reasonable to state that a large part of the problems in our lives, are of our own making.

Personally, I find that it's much easier for me to deal with problems that are of my own making. If I made them, then I have control over them. If I have control over them, I can fix them, and even avoid them in the future. But if my problems are not of my making, then I didn't have control over them, not when they start and not when they finish. So then I cannot end them, and that means that they could be never-ending pains in my life. That's something that I'd rather not have. Given the choice between accepting I screwed myself up, and having to deal with stuff that gives me great unhappiness for several years, I think that me screwing myself up is a far better choice. I only have to swallow a bit of humble pie, and then I get to make my life much better.

But that's not how many people see it. Many people want to blame their problems on someone else. Often, there is only one person who had a hand in the problem, and it's them. When that happens, it's far easier to say it happened for no reason.
 normaldude
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 4
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/3/2010 7:31:32 PM
All we can do is try to make decisions based on our needs and wants then life will come at us like a herd of stampeding buffalo. People retreat into this way of thinking as they begin to feel crushed by all the random stuff. Some get more religious, some use chemicals, some just shrug shoulders and keep going, some crack up. Watching innocent people die slow deaths from terminal diseases or kids die in violent car crashes will make you look for a coping mechanism.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 5
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/3/2010 9:11:00 PM
JP, I believe it is that human need to find a silver lining in things, especially if these things are bad...

It seem very prevelant in religious people, basically saying you have som SPECIAL reason to learn this lesson, and thus by divine plan this THING happens, and it is supposed to have that special reason...

We humans get comfort from these cliche's, because that way we can feel that their is a great power in charge, and it didn't just happen for NO particular reason at all, except for random events happening to come together over years, or moments...

We also like to give these cliche's as a means to deal with how powerless we feel for what bad has happened to another...

The example cancer was brought up... In some religions there is a reason it happened, the person lived a unhealthy life, thus this is their "reward" for living an unhealthy life... For those who get it, had a healthy life, then it is as a means of trying to bring sympathic comfort... Just as the saying the person is in a better place...

For real? they are dead, is that better than being alive??? For some maybe, but then that goes to the after life, and comfort humans get that they have a life, good bad, what ever, and not they are rotting in the ground, beging slowly forgotten over time...

Does things happen for a reason??? I don't know, my spiritual side says some times, my logical side says, it is a random collision of events...
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 6
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/4/2010 8:47:18 AM
We all look for coping mechanisms. Either we try to see the bright side, or figure out why, or say "God has his reasons, or is testing me"...whatever.
Call it "collision theory". Where two or more lines intersect. Life lines, fate lines, whatever....they intersect and "something" happens. It has been said that even if we observe something, we change it in some way. Perhaps true. (Study of chimpanzees has brought this question out in behavioural analysis...Feb 2010 National Geographic).
Whatever we do in our lives...it will affect someone else in some way. Sometimes what we do has a "ripple affect" meaning it goes beyond those we have the encounter (intersection) with. If a drunk driver hits someone, it affects both families, courts, lawyers, doctors, friends...a lot of people. Example...doctor is about to leave to go to dinner with his GF. He has decided to pop the marriage question. BUT...an accident victim comes in, and he has to attend to it. He misses going to dinner. Misses the chance to propose. Someone else comes along and feeds her a line, and she winds up on a beach somewhere with someone else.
All because someone decided to have a few drinks before going home to the nagging wife after being chewed out at work for dropping the ball on a big account. What does one thing have to do with another? Not much....but like a billiard table, one ball rolling can hit a lot of things and have some consequences.
 milt_n_bradley
Joined: 10/14/2009
Msg: 7
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/4/2010 9:31:25 AM
To my way of thinking..."reason" is the value that an observer gives to an occurrence that they are attempting to understand.
Most things happen w/o being observed and therefore w/o a "reason."

IMHO,the majority of things happen at random and have no discernible "reason."
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 8
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/4/2010 11:52:03 AM
SmilingSalmon, I can see that by doing certain actions we set a series of events in place and we could easily construe that as the reason for it happening.

When we look at it in an actual and factual perspective, we know that if we set a series motions in action, something should indeed happen but, what if they don't? Millions of people buy a lottery ticket in the hopes of winning it big and of course the ones that do win it big will have some story to tell but, what about all the rest?

No doubt some people will say “well, someone had to win and it was the person who did and the rest simply did not”. Wouldn't that be “it is what it is”?

I enjoy your example of kids dying of cancer because looking at the whole picture, I would ask why did some kids not die and others did? Because it simply did since, “it is what it is”.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 9
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/4/2010 1:28:08 PM
JP, the lottery thing, it is what it is... Ya didn't pick the right numbers, or yours didn't come up, that is all about chance... Some would tell you it was God's will they got the money because they were desperately in need and that need was fulfilled.. Errrr I don't know, depends on a persons faith, and how strong they feel God has an impact on these sort of things...

Salmons example of children dying, that is NOT chance, but rather back when people didn't know or give sh!t, that they set in motion for those now to suffer greatly... It is not a chance happening, but rather actions that set in motion more actions...

The kids who didn't die have a higher threshold to the poison, OR were in an area with less toxin... Either way it isn't a chance happening, but rather some good genetics, and the hmmm luck(?) that they did recieve the same exposure as the other children.

I remember a story of a couple found along side the road praying and praying and praying... They were praying that their car would start, and if it did it was the will of God, and if not, then God's will was not for it to happen..

The car needed gas... That is not a chance happening, but an event set in motion, and people who seem to miss the point that people do have to do for themselves no matter how religious they are...
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 10
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/4/2010 7:33:40 PM
This question can be made into a much simpler one.

Why?

And the answer is

Why not?

(All I want to know is why messages this short cannot be posted?)

............................................................................................................
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 11
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/5/2010 4:25:00 AM
Nothing happens for a reason until you find a reason to make it happen.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 12
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/5/2010 8:00:56 PM
OP. I feel that people find reasons within events. I feel that this sort of thing is similar to people finding faces and human forms in places where they are not. If a man dies and I meet my wife at his wake, clearly he died so that I could meet my wife. I prefer to see the time line as a matter of cause and effect. It did not happen for a reason, but there was a reason that it happened.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 13
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/5/2010 8:45:00 PM
SmilingSalmon, there surely seems to be some gross misunderstandings about what I am saying. I never talked about the reactions to things happening besides, I completely agree with you on that one! To every event, there will be some reaction, period. WHY was it ultimately that reaction, because we did our best to get that reaction!

I also do agree with you that if you have an offensive belief, you will perceive “bad” things will happen to you all the time. But instead of just believing “bad” things will simply happen because that’s just how it is, and you take a look at the FACTS and NOT what you made those facts out to be, you will soon realize that you actually set yourself up for those events.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 14
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 8:58:47 AM
And sometimes, sh!t just happens.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 15
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 1:39:52 PM
SmilingSalmon, my point of view actually comes from myself and a place like this is a perfect place to share my views on things and get other people’s views!

I can see your point if view and would agree with it if I was one to let everything be determined by a higher power or better yet, faith. I do not simply believe in things that cannot be proven or because others tell me it’s true. Either show me the proof or show me information that I consider just as factual. This said, of course as you can imagine, I do not believe in God but I do choose to believe in many of the teachings from God, i.e. love your neighbour, he kind to others etc… Now are those things, things that I would of discovered in myself even if I had not heard this from my religious background? I think so!

I do believe that asking questions and always questioning things is an important step in our own personal development and evolution.

Indeed we all have free will and we can choose to do with it what we will. I do draw the line at the Creator though. Since there is no proof of there being a Creator other than to simply believe there is or, to look at things around us and to believe those things ARE the Creator, I choose not to believe there is a creator and simply look at the facts.

It sure seems that many many people will say that things “are” such a way because that is what THEY believe but, what if another person does not see it that way? What does that mean about that thing in question? Again, “it is what it is”.no?

As you said “It may seem like things are getting worse and darkness is darker, but that is only because as we ascend, darkness and bad becomes less, yet more dense and concentrated, looking as though it is worse. It isn't. Disasters like Haiti allow us to ascend even more”, but what if someone else thinks and sees it differently? It will ultimately be what they think it to be, right? But what about the actual event itself? If you remove all personal feelings and thoughts, you should come to realize that “it is what it is”.

I disagree with your thought on humans not liking to see things logically. I would admit 100% to being one of those logical people. I base everything I do/did based on what I feel/felt like doing and then based on the facts at hand. I do see and agree with you on “choosing to view things as a c-creator with the source, or choosing to view them as an earth-bound human full of ego” as of course the operative word here is “choose”. You can choose to or not choose to!

JP
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 16
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 2:30:16 PM
I commend you on your strive for finding answers!

For me mind you, I never read the bible for answers since to me, the bible was written by men throughout the ages, translated thereafter, new updated versions were re-written and published and so on and so forth. So ultimately, it all comes down to a question of faith in what you choose to believe in.

Since the bible cannot be proven any way and offers only the chance to see things from another perspective, I always choose to see my own perspective in any event and react to that.

But again, that’s just me!
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 17
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 2:37:06 PM
mark,

I could be wrong, but to me, HE even has a use for jerks........... sometimes.

most of us spend more time researching which peanut butter to buy then which bible translation to use.

OK, here's another thought, be careful of my motivation for reading and researching the bible, or son of a gun, maybe my heart will be hardened.

even the bible talks about unforeseen circumstances. [sh[t happens]
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 18
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 6:51:47 PM
SmilingSalmon, I must admit that I love reading what you have to say! Your comments and feedback seems so open-minded and non-confrontational that I find it a pleasure to hear what you have to say… and see things differently than you!

The opening to my thread was not actually a question as opposed to a query to find out what others thought about what I shared. And all of your comments have greatly added to that and, I thank you!!!!

I am not labelling myself as anything since “I am who I am”! If others wish to attach a label to me and my way of thinking then, more power to them. I choose to focus only on the things in my yard (life) and not to pre-occupy myself with the things in my neighbour’s since, that is none of my business. This does mean that I will help my fellow neighbour in need of help and so forth but, if they feel awful about something, well that’s awful for them, not me.

I find your comment “If you were a believer, you would know that is it your God given right to choose everything as you see fit” because I do choose everything as I see fit but not because I do believe in the Creator but because I simply choose to believe it is!

You cannot relate to no creator, right? How about if I mentioned this then, “You are the God of your own world”, how would that resonate with you? This said, you have the choice to have the right to choose, freely, and that you must respect that right (or not if you choose not to).

The creator in your life is YOU! So yes, YOU are the God in your life since you hold all the power therein! To relate to “it is what it is”, understand that to see it, you first need to separate yourself from all your personal views/opinions/thoughts/comments etc… and see those things as “it is what it is”.

JP
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 19
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 11:37:38 PM
this god you guys are being rather dismissive about, is in your minds some goofy human invention, I presume.

so in a purely materialistic world, where in the hell would any kind of a spiritual entity come from?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 20
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/6/2010 11:46:37 PM

in a purely materialistic world, where in the hell would any kind of a spiritual entity come from?

Us.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 21
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 12:35:26 AM
OK, synonymly speaking, I presume.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 22
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 1:04:27 AM
@ are
In terms of synonyms, these are the ones I see (which might help clear up some of the confusion about an atheist talking about God & spirituality so much):

God = all that exists = universe/multiverse
(Seen this way, God clearly exists if we concede that anything does. In Fact God is ALL that exists and we are a part of Him)
Also, we can now see God not as the creator being outside of things, but as the Creator of Himself, i.e. not the "First Cause" but BOTH Cause AND Effect.
Is God sentient? It would seem logical, as we are sentient and we are a part of God, so in at least one way (and quite probably others) God is Sentient.
If we are in fact sentient manifestations of God, we must also (logically) be a Hand of God, so whatever we do is in a very real sense the Will of God. Whether or not God is good or evil depends on us. Whether or not God will save us depends on us.

It was the churches that taught us we are filthy errant children who must be controlled and disciplined or we'll be beyond salvation. What do we have to be saved from?...Ourselves. Whose gonna save us?...we are! After all if we can create the universe in which we live, I'm damn sure we're capable of growing up and acting like the God we all are inside. Maybe all that's needed is to stop looking up and start looking in to find the will to grow up and get our hands a little dirty saving ourselves. I for one am not gonna let a bunch of dead priests who only wanted to control us tell me we aren't capable...I know damn well that we are. All we have to do is stop believing the old priests & their scribes.

Every one of us, theist and atheist alike is a lot more spiritual (and orders of magnitude more powerful) than we think.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 23
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:20:07 AM
JustDukky, I can see what you mean and believe. In order to get on board and agree 100% with that, one needs to make a leap of faith and simply believe that. And of course as everyone can tell by now, I personally am way too much of a realist to make that leap of faith.

To use your example (with MY thoughts):

God = God is whoever it is you want God to be = universe/multiverse = is all that what science has discovered thus far.

SmilingSalmon, I do find it quite liberating to remove myself from myself since I find it so liberating and allows me to think and question all that I want with no preconceived notion of what is “right and true”. I still respect and hold dear to my heart many of the teachings from the Bible and others that I do not, i.e. only men can be priests.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 24
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:22:17 AM
Spirituality requires belief of the same type as that required for god.

Spirituality, like God requires an agreed upon definition before any proof (if any exists) can be found or reasoned.
Like God, the personal definitions of spirituality are all over the place.
What is your definition of spirituality?

In my own case, I consider that all "matter" is entangled (in the QM sense) with all other matter in far more ways than we currently suspect. By my definition of spirituality as an awareness of interconnectedness (by entanglement, which is more like a oneness than a connection of discrete objects), even the "awareness" of another electron's spin state is a form of spirituality. It is my sincere belief that the mere existence of sentience in the universe makes the universe itself in at least one way, sentient (there are probably many others), so it is no much of a leap of faith for me to see a spiritual connection with the world around me, How much greater must the connection be between sentient beings?

I really believe we all have a spiritual connection to one another, whether or not we choose to believe it.
I really do believe we are all "one", not just with each other, but with everything that exists.
I really am coming to believe that the end of the search for ever more "elementary" particles or "stuff" will end with the stuff of which the entirety of existence is made. Some might call it energy, a wavefunction, maybe simply "existence"...Myself, I choose to call it "Love", if only to reveal the very profound Truth that "God is Love."
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 25
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:33:03 AM
@ monalee

I have never seen the words soul group or mother earth in Scripture so these doctrines are from another source..

Maybe they are in a different scripture? Why believe any Scripture at all? Can't you figure out for yourself what makes the world go 'round?
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