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 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 1
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is separate habitation the new living together?Page 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
A recent thread got me thinking. It asked if marriage is now a "dying paradigm" now that living together is becoming more socially acceptable. I'll take that a step further and ask if living together will soon become a dying paradigm as both men and women are now beginning to embrace their independence?

I see a lot of people here in the forums saying that they do not wish to ever get married. In my opinion living with someone brings all of the same challenges that being married to someone does.

I have never been married, and I do not wish to. However, I have had two long term relationships in which I lived with my partner for a number of years. I found that I felt pressured to suddenly become more domestic with cooking and cleaning and such. The whole dynamic of the relationship changed as it seemed it was a struggle to get enough help around house from the men, which lead to resentment at every turn. A sock haphazardly thrown in the middle of the room, or finding the kitchen sponge filled with dish soap instead of rinsed would make my blood boil. I became more demanding of my partner, which in turn was not happily received! (Not surprisingly!)
Even I do not like myself when I am living with someone!!

So now, after already having decided that I don't want kids or marriage, I am leaning toward not ever wanting to even cohabitate again! I am now with a man who I have dated on and off for about 5 years...we visit at each others houses, and this seems like the perfect compromise.

Are there others out there who feel the same way? Do you feel that you need to live with someone to be close to him or her?
 Puppydog54
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 2
is separate cohabitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 7:01:37 PM
Interesting topic, OP. I have been married twice - once briefly and once for 14 years. At this time I do not see myself marrying a third time (although I might change my mind if someone really awesome came along.) After several years of being alone I suspect that I'm rather set in my ways... and I do appreciate my privacy and alone time.

So I am with you on this one, OP. A nice girlfriend that I could visit often (and who could visit me) would be just what the doctor ordered.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 3
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 7:16:08 PM
i absolutely believe in separate living spaces. after my divorce, i swore i'd never again provide anyone with free maid service. i did live with someone, but that didn't last long because i refused to tolerate the mess, the noise and the general disrespect for my home.
 Mr Bain
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 4
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 7:17:12 PM
If there are any "paradigms" that in fact dying and not yet in the grave, I'd like to know which ones they are.

This is the 21st century, folks. Anything goes. That song was 80 years too early.
 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 5
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 7:37:50 PM
Interesting response, eyeofthecamera! I can't say that I entirely agree with your ideas, but I would bet that many men would agree with you. I was beginning to wonder if it was more common for women to want to live separately so as not to be roped in to a full time housekeeper position...seems like a common theme. I wonder if there are more people who would prefer living separately if money were not such an issue for so many people.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 6
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is separate cohabitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 7:39:24 PM
I can get that some people prefer this, but it is not for me. I have dated people until I have known that I wouldn't live with them; at that point it seems totally futile to continue.

Someone once suggested to me that people were either 'relational beings' or not; that some people naturally want to be in relationship and others prize their independence more. I thought it was an interesting theory about the perspectives we bring in dating and life.
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 7
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 8:42:43 PM
Mr.Evil:
At any rate, there was a thread on here, about 2 months ago it ran 20 or so pages. It was about a guy looking for just what I am, but without cohabitation. It said he had sought this, for some 20 years, with various women. In all cases, he was monogamous, committed, thoughtful, but that they would date for a while, then break up, due to the fact he would not marry.


I remember that thread. The guy was not a player contrary to what others said in that thread. He was monogamous and all the things you mentioned. He just wasn't offering up marriage. Maybe he was turned off because he had been married briefly early in life and it didn't work. Whatever! To me this man sounded perfect. He was offering so much more than a FWB, imo. I wouldn't break up with this guy since I have no urge to get married again. If it happens fine, but I don't need it to be satisfied and happy.
 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 8:46:16 PM
Funny observation Mr. Evil!! That is a good point, I bet I would have been blasted if I were a man posting this! I bet if we were going to stereotype, if a man posts something similar, they are a player, and if a woman posts something similar, they are a cold be-otch. LMAO.

I wish someone would call me a player! Now that would be true equality at work!
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 9
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 9:10:40 PM

She doesn't have to live with me for me to care, or care more. She doesn't have to live with me to get a commitment. She doesn't have to live with me to get fidelity. She doesn't have to live with me to get time with me. She had all that when we started dating, so she can just expect more of the same.

Have to? H-A-V-E to.

hmm. How about CHOOSE TO. Or maybe even, WANT TO.

How about wanting to wake up beside each other everyday? Cooking together, cleaning together, Laughing together. Sometimes both want MORE than is possible to share through dating.

I dunno, I'm in the "share my life fully" camp.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 10
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 9:26:47 PM
You don't want to marry the person and you don't want to live with the person. That's called dating. Obviously there are plenty of people who are into that.

If I was committing my life to someone, of course I'd want to live under the same roof. I think one of the greatest benefits to marriage is having that person nearby to give or receive help when needed and to give or receive love when needed and to help with the burden of maintaining a home.

However, I can definitely see benefits to having separate bedrooms and bathrooms if possible. It would ease cleanliness differences and avoid annoyances that come from having someone right in your face all the time. You could still sleep together each night but you would have to respect the "rules" of that person's room, like leaving the toilet seat UP after using the guy's bathroom.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 9:33:50 PM
It's an interesting thing to consider. A bunch of the responses have included a lot of venting about how living with a partner went very bad. I don't really think all of them were valid within the notion of separate residences for the sake of differing lifestyles, including the OP's mention that SHE felt pressure to become more domestic. My impression was that the pressure came either from within, or from a general societal perception, but maybe I'm guessing wrong. Other people had bigger problems with their mates which I thought were a "egg before the chicken" kind of thing, blaming cohabitation for incompatibilities that were merely REVEALED by the cohabitation.
On the other hand, I married relatively late (mid thirties), and my wife and I had repeated fights about giving up more and more of what had previously been MY house, to let her have room to be herself. She never did stop complaining that too much of it was mine (until after we began divorce proceedings, and she got her own house). By the time it was done, I had literally been reduced to a strip along one wall in one corner of a large hallway. Everything else had to be her way, and even my strip had to be approved regularly.
Now I have two sons living with me, and THEY want things their own way too. When we were kids, we were lucky enough to have our own rooms for a while, and other than being occasionally pounded to clean up, we were able to live as we wished. That was pretty good.
The COST of dual residences would be the main thing stopping me from trying this in the future (assuming I find someone sufficiently tolerant of me to spend more than a half-day at a time with me). Maybe a single house, still big enough to have separate spaces for each inside would work out, I don't know. Since I would HOPE to be able to sleep with my future mate more often than not, having completely separate houses might be disappointing to me in that respect. Unless I win the lottery, and can go the "Kennedy/Bush Family Compound" route, with two houses inside the same gated area.

Another GOOD thing about your idea OP, is that keeping separate residences might keep the GOVERNMENT from interfering with the couple. The way the law is here in Virginia, whether you WANT to marry or not, once you live together for a certain number of years (I think it's seven), the law MAKES you legally married, and forces you to take on what ever baggage they deem is a part of marriage. You lose your individual rights. I'll have to check and find out how they decide you are together. Insurance companies ALSO are permitted to make demands on us, and ignore our individual rights when we live with someone. I just found out that if I let a licensed driver live with me, I HAVE to buy them auto insurance, even if they aren't allowed to drive my car.
 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 12
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 9:39:06 PM
BigDaddyJinx: Normally, I find your posts pretty offensive, but this time I just thought it was funny. To answer your question about why I felt I needed to become more domestic: because it was expected and necessary! When I live by myself...the house seems to just magically stay clean! Of course there is the stuff that you always have to do occassionally like clean the soap scum out of the shower or dust...but piles of clothes don't just APPEAR where once there was clean floor. Or, I don't walk into the bathroom to find a puddle that soaks my socks, and then notice that the sink is littered with small hairs and shaving cream bits and toothpaste that have hardened on.

Also, when I am alone, I don't cook, I HEAT (microwaveable meals), or only consume things that can be eaten in the form they are bought in, like lettuce or apples or crackers.

And, I can amazingly eat well and healthily for weeks without even dirtying a single plate, cup, pot, or pan! It's like magic! I love it! Paper plates, and cups and plastic silverware. Maybe not environmentally very conscious, but I never proclamaimed to be perfect. I do go through a couple of coffee cups, but I rinse them immediately and use the same one or two for about a week.

When I live with a guy, I have an entire sink full of dishes all of the time, it seems.

And most guys, in reality, are not satisfied my idea of dinner. They may eat like I do when they are living alone, but as soon as they move in, they think they are entitled to more than me telling them that are meals in the freezer, and if they are hungery, they can heat it up themselves when they feel like it! Hey, sorry, I am no Martha Stewart!

Although I tried so hard to be when I was living with someone, and I hated it. I hated it because it just seemed expected and taken for granted. Ummmmm....no thank you!

Now, my guy and I wake up in the same bed about half of the week or more, either at his place or mine. I find that we are both more respectful of each other's living spaces because essentially we are guests there. It's a little like going on mini-vacations at the other's houses. I have lived with him in the past, and this arrangement seems much more agreeable for us. But, everyone is different which is why I was curious what other people thought about this lifestyle. Thanks for the input everyone!
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 13
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 10:00:13 PM
I see no real problem with what you are seeking here OP. If your lives are good with someone else besides the co hab thing - why not do it? I done the living together thing too and been on the receiving end of fights about such trivial matters just as you described, even when splitting the housework.

Not cleaning things "as good as she does" , leaving one thing out of place or that evil errant sock that just ruins her whole day which turns out to be misplaced rage at something else that happened her, bad mood or PMS. Its funny what some will tolerate from a pet ,a child, or a friend but will crucify a significant other or roommate if they forget a dish in the sink once.
If a relationship is working on all the other phases then why not just live separate and get to know each other WELL rather than infatuate, move in together and get married inside of a year, only to find out you don't like living with this person or anybody else for that matter.
These types of relationships aren't new, they been around for years- what we used to call boyfriend and girlfriend- maybe now considered more FWB. They make sense for the people in them, aren't necessary about just using each other and can have a high level of devotion as well. Many singles these days can afford to live solo, and are not forced by economics to live together, which in a way has a more romantic element because you want to be together rather than forced to be together because you have to live under the same roof.
So once again I say - to each their own- do whatever works for both you's and enjoy.
 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 14
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/20/2010 10:22:49 PM
Here's a new thought: I would consider marrying the man I am with now, but I see no logical reason why that would mean that we had to live together. Food for thought...talk amongst yourselves....lol.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 15
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/21/2010 12:08:18 AM

I see no logical reason why that would mean that we had to live together.


You don't HAVE to live together but here are some benefits to it:

1) The extra amount spent on a second residence could be used toward savings or vacations.
2) When you wake up in the morning, all your things are right there-- your clothes, your makeup, your shampoo, etc.
3) You never wonder where your partner spent last night because you know he was with you.
4) If you hurt yourself or get some tragic news or have car troubles or just have a bad day, there's a better chance you're partner will be right there rather than having to trek across town.
5) You both get to experience that level of comfort that comes from being in your own home instead of "his" home and "her" home.
6) There's more opportunity for spontaneity when you don't have to plan your get-togethers.

If I was at the point with a guy that we were planning a future together but we couldn't even work well enough to live together, I can't really think of why I'd want to keep dating him.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 16
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/21/2010 4:12:11 PM
^^ WoW eye, so much for my perception of the kinder, friendlier "down home" folk in Nova Scotia.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 17
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/21/2010 4:41:00 PM
I don't need to do it nor do I think it's a requirement for a relationship.

I wouldn't mind it, but there'd have to not be the feeling of lack of freedom coming with it. A big place with an extra bathroom/bedroom/etc. We'd have to be able to get space when we needed it in order for it to be good for the long haul.

And wanting space from everyone once in awhile isn't a bad thing - certain people aren't exempt to that based on the nature of the relationship. You may never want space, but it's good to know it's there and ok to grab it when you need it, for the sake of your peace of mind.
 Friendly widow
Joined: 11/24/2009
Msg: 18
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is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/21/2010 5:45:41 PM
I think lots of older previously married people have found that they prefer to have their own roof over their head. I knew one couple and neither had a place big enough to share all the time so they would both have had to move and start fresh. She at least had a life with her family and friends and wanted the freedom to come and go as she chose! They did have lots of together time-and she cared for him until he died.There again she did a lot to help clear out his apartment and helped the family, but ultimately it was their responsibility.
I had a SO who ran a business from his home -a small 4 bedroom house! At one point we discussed co-habiting but the logistics were a nightmare so we continued to have our own homes but spent a lot of time together. I can't imagine being married and having separate homes, but each to his own!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 19
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/22/2010 1:09:41 PM

Are there others out there who feel the same way? Do you feel that you need to live with someone to be close to him or her?

You are going to get varying answers because of the varying ages and experiences of those who respond to the topic.
Speaking strictly for myself, a childless widow of mature age who is a homeowner,a person who has always been something of a loner and a person who values independence and autonomy, a noncohabiting committed&exclusive relationship is absolutely my goal.

After several years of being alone I suspect that I'm rather set in my ways... and I do appreciate my privacy and alone time.
That's probably a statement that could apply to me as well...it's not that I fear any aspect of marriage or cohabitation, simply that I've spent enough time as a single woman, to gain an appreciation for the good points of that status.

No.
But it potentially saves a lot of money and time, especially if we plan on having or taking care of any kids.
Yes, a family setting is generally the best environment to raise children. But there have been times and cultures where actually men and women mostly lived in separate groups,with the entire tribe/clan/village working together for the common good and the wellbeing of the offspring. The 1-man/1-woman couple creating a nuclear family is NOT a construct that's been in place since the beginning of time.

Must men I met don't want to be bother by the women at all.
They are looking for "sex supply" only, that means someone who will provide them with sex when needed but nothing else, they do not want to be in a relationship, pay for ANYTHING, I mean nothing, I pay for my own coffee when I go meet someone because they go on and on how they go on so many dates and spend so much money etc.
If I hear one more man saying how hard it is to be a man.......well!

So back to your question.
Why would I want to live with someone like that?
I wasn't born to be anybody's sex supply.
they don't want to share anything.
they don't want to go out
They don't want to travel
They don't even want to go out for a movie and dinner
they don't want to share their space
But they want free laundry and a cook and of course sex
All you have to do is read a few threads here.


I like my space the way it is too.
I don't want to be room service/maid for someone like that.

If I'm paying for my own expenses already, and I have nobody bothering me about doing things for them when they can't be bother by any of my needs at all.
Why would I need someone like THAT living in my place?
To be bother by him everytime he feels like having sex?
No thanks!


I'm cool with "equality"
You guys can live on your rent holes and hire sex when you need it.

I find this unbelievably SAD.That said, I do understand that there is some basis for it...more on that in relation to another post here,when I get to it.

You girls wanted equality, and now you are unhappy with it.

There may well be some "girls" who are, but I for one am FINE with equality. For one thing,it meant that I didn't have to rush out as soon as decently acceptable, and secure another male sponsor/representative( aka a husband) in order to survive in a dignified adult manner.

Women want a man under the same roof so they can control what he thinks, does, etc.
All told, I had a man living under the same roof with me for about 30 years in total, and did not want, expect, or have those results.

I wonder if there are more people who would prefer living separately if money were not such an issue for so many people.
That's a point worth pondering, for sure!

that some people naturally want to be in relationship and others prize their independence more

One would also wonder if people might evolve from one type to another, or have phases of being one or the other.

At any rate, there was a thread on here, about 2 months ago it ran 20 or so pages. It was about a guy looking for just what I am, but without cohabitation. It said he had sought this, for some 20 years, with various women. In all cases, he was monogamous, committed, thoughtful, but that they would date for a while, then break up, due to the fact he would not marry.

Most women on here, railed heavily against it. They called him player and worse. Funny now, let's see the reactions, when a woman posts this. Should be good for the old POF double standard and a good hoot!

I remember that thread, I was one of the few women that said,hey, if that's the way he rolls and he's not exploiting these women or leading them on with false promises,what's the problem.
Almost got my woman card pulled for that one.

Mr E -- Yea, I remember that thread too. The hens all circled their wagons and took that thread so far off the rails it was impossible to keep it alive. That's their M.O. Just like most of the other hot button topics here that see men stand up for themselves and remind women that they're not nearly as "important" as they'd like to believe they are...
LOL, as I preciously mentioned,I was one of the "hens" that broke out of the circle.

Then you go on to say that it was a "struggle" to get a man to help you out.

I would say that this is NOT an inaccurate statement. However, one does have to learn not to sweat the small stuff and to pick your battles wisely. While it may not be a direct demand, command, or order coming down from the male, human females in civilized Western cultures can tend to feel a significant amount of self-imposed compulsion,stemming from absorbed parental and social pressure,to excel in the cleanliness and order of her home/nest/den/cave/whatever. While I personally don't GET having a meltdown over a sock on the floor or soap in the dishrag,I can understand the BASIS of the conflict.

I'm not saying that co-hab is all garbage, 'cause I've been there too. It has nice frills when you can find them. So it's not all bad. But as society evolves even further and more and more people adopt a self awareness and independence (as compared to severe co-dependence), it's reasonable to suggest that eventually we'll see people maintaining separate residences but still carrying on a steady long term relationship as the norm. People trying to give themselves the best possible chance at longevity and duration in their relationship. I can see it happening.

Another point well worth pondering.

Have to? H-A-V-E to.
I don't HAVE to do nothin' but die and pay taxes.
However,CHOICE is an important consideration.A lot of people feel their best when living under the same roof with their current partner...this does not make them bad, wrong or even misguided. It's a CHOICE.

My impression was that the pressure came either from within, or from a general societal perception, but maybe I'm guessing wrong.
That's it exactly, it's conditioning...I don't know as any of the countries/cultures served by PoF have laws/statutes/ancient customs that permit a woman be subject to public stoning in the town square for having a sock on the floor or soap left in the dishrag.

When I live by myself...the house seems to just magically stay clean!

Wow...where can I go to learn THAT magic?? LOL, being a slightly ADD fibromyalgic who is in the resale industry,clutter tends to be my issue,rather than being an outright slob or ignorant. But I swear I could manage to get dirty while taking a shower,and it takes me 2 hrs to watch "60 minutes".
I happen to ENJOY cooking.Though I don't cook daily, I do find myself involved in several activities that bring opportunities to cook for potlucks and/or people/families in times of trouble/need. I certainly wouldn't shoot a man while he was washing dishes, for sure!

These types of relationships aren't new, they been around for years- what we used to call boyfriend and girlfriend- maybe now considered more FWB. They make sense for the people in them, aren't necessary about just using each other and can have a high level of devotion as well. Many singles these days can afford to live solo, and are not forced by economics to live together, which in a way has a more romantic element because you want to be together rather than forced to be together because you have to live under the same roof.

Precisely!!
and one of the very reasons I take issue with threads/posts that characterize FwB as some sort of deal where a horndog man sexually exploits some vulnerable woman. That's not what a genuine FwB is about.

I'm not sure that men and women are designed to live together,
As previously mentioned, the one man/one woman plus children scenario is NOT a "since the beginning of time" construct.

Lastly lol listen well, empathize,have a sense of humour about things, both life and people can be hilarious.We all have our mind sets and perceptions shaped from the past and our childhood conditioning.These perceptions are often warped and incorrect.The forums show us, how we are all different and need to keep a more open mind, I include myself in this.
I agree with most of this, except the "incorrect" part. People cannot always help how life shapes them, and as long as no other living beings are experiencing harm from their warped whatever, "incorrect" doesn't apply, IMO.

You say that that you WILL make the adjustments and compromise necessary to live harmoniously with a man, but then you want to dictate.

And you know this...HOW? Have you been married to every woman in the world? Or to the woman who posted what I quoted above?

If you really cared about a 'man'.

Wow. I'm so sorry that your life has left you unable to believe in that concept.

Otherwise, I would have been lonely most of my life.

with all due respect, IMO, given your disbelief of "if you really cared about a man", it would be my considered opinion that you have been. This is not necessarily a bad thing,in all circumstances.

Women picking from those left over after all the best men have been snatched up by women who don't behave like 14 yr olds, expecting to be 'pursued'.

Setting aside(for the moment) the "behave like 14 yr olds,expecting to be 'pursued'" bit, I have to make the observation that the "best men" are all too often already taken, regardless of how they happened to be snatched up,won over,or whatever. And there are demographic/geographic/community 'values' still in many locations that STILL HOLD that the man is the pursuer. Unfortunately, what's often left out there as 'available men',aren't worth pursuing. Even the 14 yr olds are smart enough to reject them.

I have seen male posters on here saying if it was not for sex, they would not have any truck with women.
This is news?
find this sad and offensive and it shows how little understanding there is between the sexes.
there doesn't NEED to be "understanding", their needs to be appreciation and respect.
Unfortunately, due to the amount of unhealed hurt and unrepaired damage,you are going to find a lot of men incapable of giving appreciation and respect. This is another reason why I agree with the OT...a lot of the available men, once one gets past the age of 30,may be good bfs/lovers/FwB-even noncohabiting SOs,but not material for living together and completely intertwining lives with.

So now, after already having decided that I don't want kids or marriage, I am leaning toward not ever wanting to even cohabitate again! I am now with a man who I have dated on and off for about 5 years...we visit at each others houses, and this seems like the perfect compromise.

Are there others out there who feel the same way?
.........
No.

Yes there are. It sounds like a very good relationship for an independent woman who isn't interested in marriage and parenthood. And I'm looking for precisely that type of relationship myself. Granted, I had a very long good marriage. I have nothing to prove to anyone, and it's with some regret that I have to admit that I've met too many men who are great to visit frequently but you wouldn't want to live with them.

do not feel the need to live with someone to be close to them. I also believe that having ones own space is essential to maintain harmony in any relationship.
I think this may be more true than currently thought, however, there are perfectly good men and women who seem to not have that need,or have worked out ways to have that 'space' without foregoing the closeness of living under the same roof.

As for the control and servitude that was mentioned in a previous post no one can be controled or manipulated unless they let themselves be! Also the pointless pursuit of control of another is by no means gender

You are absolutely correct but I am sure your point will be voraciously argued.

For men it is becoming a very empty and hopeless world out there. Female expectations and demands are in many cases not worth any gratification that may come from being even on a friends basis with them. The control freak issues that women have always begin to surface within weeks of meeting them, and of them I would say about 50% are so judgmental that they label you from the beginning and start thinking of ways to get away from you after the second meeting.

So dating hasn't been going well for you.Join the club, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. It's always easier to blame the opposite gender, and I agree that some blame is generally due them. But God or Fate or the Universe-whatever! doesn't OWE you or me or anybody else a Significant Other, so it's kind of silly to hold a lot of anger against the entire gender and the prevailing social conditions...maybe couplehood just isn't in the cards for some of us.

You should try walking in my shoes for a month and see the kind of venom filled women I have the misfortune of running across.
maybe it's the places you're walking in?

liking someone to cover your back..lend that third had when you need it...shore up the areas where we might not be the expert (cause ya know what they say about the jack of all trades)...I think that people in general at this stage in the game lack a degree of openness, a little vulnerability, and have a heart wall the's impenetrable

And is it absolutely cast-in-stone-necessary to live under the same roof in order to have a relationship of this caliber? I think that is becoming a valid question/viewpoint.

I like having my own space to go home to, but his space to get away to.

And if he gets the same from you, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.

The truth is you can control people to do as you wish them to.
All it takes is convincing, and leverage


Being independent, autonomous, and free are the most healthy and valuable things one can have.
They're everything.
Ask anyone who's had those things taken away from them...

Hmmm...
msg 51
I think that this type of relationship/situation is becoming not at all uncommon.

From a purely practical point of view, if all we have to offer one another is sex and companionship, why do either? You can have love and sex and companionship without the potentially disastrous combining of homes, money, families, and the friction that all too often surrounds the division of labour in the home.


am holding out for marriage though. I think with the right person compromise can be had. Plenty of people manage to make it work.
This also is true, despite media hype and the "won't get screwed again" screaming from a certain segment of the male gender.I'm certainly NOT advocating the abolishment of marriage and cohabitation, simply speaking up to support another relationship option.

Never allow society to dictate how or where you should live. If having your own place with your own rules and living apart from your BF makes you happy then I think you have found a perfect balance. But as you get older and all your friends are paired off and starting families you may find your resolve weakening.

Yes, I think the younger people participating in/reading this thread should consider that eventuality carefully. But for those of us who can say"that train has left the station", I think it's a valid option.

Sounds more like friends with benefits or a casual relationship than a serious romantic committment,

But one might ask, committment to WHAT? you mean a man and woman can't love each other deeply, be monogamous,emotionally supportive of one another,not looking around for 'something better'but unless they are-or are planning to be-under the same roof,it's just a casual relationship? Did you see the earlier post about the nn-cohabiting couple where the woman cared for the man when he was dying, and helped his family settle his affairs afterward? Does that sound like a "casual" relationship to you?

Then the time you are together less of it is spent arguing about stupid stuff since that's no longer an issue with the separate residences and instead enjoying each other which is how it should be.

Precisely!
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 20
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/22/2010 6:30:44 PM
Unfortunately, what's often left out there as 'available men',aren't worth pursuing.

I covered that.
And plenty of women want to sit there and complain about that, and not their methods of always being the 'bride's maid, and never the bride'

In my case, it was simply an observation.If being single or just dating BOTHERED me,I've had opportunities to make a relationship happen,but I'm not interested in something that has to be "made to happen"...I'm a strong willed woman but I can't MAKE myself love someone, and I see no point in a "relationship" with someone I don't love, just for some sort of social gold star or seal of approval.


And there are demographic/geographic/community 'values' still in many locations that STILL HOLD that the man is the pursuer.

Not anywhere I've lived.

That does not render my observation invalid.
You haven't lived EVERYWHERE.
I'm not saying that women don't ENCOURAGE the pursuit,or reciprocate when mutual interest has been established.But there's a fine line between being flirtatious/encouraging, and being "too pushy" or 'too forward'.

With all due consideration, you know enough about my past, on the topic of relationship to know that I've mostly been in LTR's, and that I've never been short on female attention or companionship.
So stop your conjuring, and speculating on my 'state'.
Unless you want make derail the topic to speculating on your 'state' of loneliness vs mine...

That's my point, exactly. Loneliness IS a state of mind. Just because one dates, has relationships, hell, one could have a HAREM and still essentially be lonely. And one can be solitary and NOT feel loneliness.
I notice that you don't mention LOVE...just 'relationships' and 'female attention or companionship'. I'm not saying that this is somehow bad or wrong, perhaps some are meant to be lonely, or subconsciously choose that state for any number of reasons.

So stop your conjuring,

Stating an opinion is not "conjuring".
from reading hundreds of my posts,
that's what informs my opinion.

Hey V~ can I chase you for a bit? I'll let you go when your done...

LOL-that's exactly how the romance thing was taught to me...that the woman chases the man until he catches her.Not always the easiest thing to pull off,but effective when it works. And then there ARE situations where the straightforward approach works better...once I've determined that the guy is perhaps a bit shy-or dense...and I'm fairly certain he's not a feminist-phobe.
Speaking to the OT- I'm certainly in support of the concept of the non-cohabiting relationship. I'm not saying that it's right for everyone, or that people who prefer cohabitation or marriage are in the wrong. But I do believe it to be a workable arrangement in the right circumstances.
Cindy O
 Commonsens
Joined: 4/6/2009
Msg: 21
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/22/2010 7:10:23 PM
Then the time you are together less of it is spent arguing about stupid stuff since that's no longer an issue with the separate residences and instead enjoying each other which is how it should be.


Perfect example of two people who refuse to work with their partner, to adapt or to work to better themselves and their couple. This couple is dead and they do not even know it yet, using this placebo only to push the expiration date.

This way is for people who refuse to adapt, to make any compromises, work or have any form of obligations or engagement.

People have forgot what is it to be in a couple in the first place, both how to receive and to give. To "adapt" and to "adapt to". (guess where the overwhelming ratio of failure in couples come from? Lack of both parties to adapt to the other, with all that it include)

Look at it the other way: I have my life, you have yours, what is mine is mine - what is yours is yours, I have my own place - you have your own place, I have my own universe - you have your own universe…basically the fundament of that philosophy: materialism and self centerment: the opposite of a couple!

People doing this are NOT in a couple, they are in a convenience, in their fulfillment of their "me, myself and I".

What do you fear? to lose your identity inside a couple? No one can remove whom you are! So your fears of "lost identity or anything else" is only an excuse and a way to justify your choice.

I cant beleive how many people treat a couple as it was a war to win, when it is in fact the ultimate diplomatic manifestation!

People have lost their agility to adapt themselves: how to adapt your own ways to another and also how to tolerate the difference of the other.
In rough: To cross the bridge and meet the other half way; both have to make adaptation, both have to work and both have to make sacrifices; so that both gain, together.

(do not mean marriage or family) Personally I will not waste my time on someone who want to built nothing or even make the small effort to meet me halfway down the bridge.
If and when I decide to share my life with someone else, I will share it fully....not just "some of it"; and I expect the very same.

 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 22
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/22/2010 9:00:49 PM

Forget looking anywhere else for just a moment...all the evidence you'd ever need to corroborate the assertions made can be gleaned from the scads of posts from men AND women on these boards over the course of the last 5+ years. New names yes, but same ol' story. People (the previously aforementioned men and women) will state that they are compromising, and adapting, and forming voluntary obligations to their SO but what is their SO contributing? Jack shit.


Just because people claim that they were compromising doesn't mean they actually were or that they were any good at it. And as much as people try to convince others and themselves otherwise, it's not always the other person's fault.

Keep in mind what the source is: an online dating forum. I'm sure if you checked out a board with people who have been married for 25+ years you'd hear a very different perspective of what it means to compromise-- on some matters you get your way, on some matters you meet halfway and on some the other person gets their way. But I've seen plenty of evidence in these forums that a lot of people think compromise means, "You do what I want or you're the as$hole." Obviously, anybody who isn't a total pushover and gets involved with that sort of person is going to have difficulties in the relationship. But that just speaks to the importance of compatibility.
 aliveone1
Joined: 9/4/2008
Msg: 23
view profile
History
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/22/2010 9:22:12 PM
Wow. Awww....someone finally called me a player! LOL! Thanks Honcho and all of you that suggested it is a casual or friends with benefits relationship. Nope, sorry it is a monogamous long term relationship everyone. I wouldn't even dream about a FWB relationship. Ew!! Sheesh!

Honcho, yeah, I want "sex without the responsibility of a relationship"! I think not. The man is 20 years older and I said that I would marry him, for crying out loud. That means I could be changing his diapers in the future. I would do it even if we weren't married. Seriously laughable!
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 24
view profile
History
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/23/2010 10:21:45 AM

I miss the minimalism thread.

I hear ya... since marriage now is little more than notarized shacking up, there's very little to distinguish the two. (There's a couple who I've lived several doors down from for many years and know casually but I don't really know whether they're married or "just" living together...) So, all the arguments which apply to the "marriage is a dying paradigm" idea would also seem to apply to cohabitation. In many locations if you cohabit for a certain period of time, which may be as little as six months, you're married by common law.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 25
is separate habitation the new living together?
Posted: 2/23/2010 11:07:36 AM
Idealist
n.
One whose conduct is influenced by ideals that often conflict with practical considerations.
One who is unrealistic and impractical; a visionary.
An artist or writer whose work is imbued with idealism.
An adherent of any system of philosophical idealism.

Realsim
n.
An inclination toward literal truth and pragmatism.
The representation in art or literature of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form.
Philosophy.
The scholastic doctrine, opposed to nominalism, that universals exist independently of their being thought.
The modern philosophical doctrine, opposed to idealism, that physical objects exist independently of their being perceived.

According to the above, there's a definite difference. I've never heard of a realistic idealist - they're opposing terms.

OT: I can see the absolute benefits of separate habitation. I live it and love it. I had a neighbour who's husband is in the armed forces and she hated the moving around and feeling like a displaced person constantly, so their arrangement was to be married and visit each other for extended periods of time, either where he was shipped to, him taking his leave where she lived beside me, or they'd fly off to exotic locations together. Now whether or not this is something that will be more fashionable as time goes on, I can see it for many who are like-minded but I don't see one overtaking the other. It's nice to be able to have the choices to live our lives as we see fit with a partner, rather than facing societal prejudices because of those choices. There are so many things that we choose to do differently (we don't drive the same cars, live in the same type of houses, eat the same foods), why should how we physically live with a loving partner be any different?
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