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 myblueshadow
Joined: 11/11/2009
Msg: 1
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Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?Page 1 of 1    
I participated in the mandatory DNA testing thread and read an article today about a man who was reunited with his son after 33 years. In that story the man's pregnant wife was kidnapped, but it got me thinking. Do you think that woman who do not tell the father that they are having his child should be charged with kidnapping?
 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 2
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 12:29:10 PM
If a woman gets pregnant without the sperm doners knowledge or concent, the most she has 'stolen' is sperm. Providing he wasn't forcibly raped, no harm, no foul. I do believe that a woman that does not notify the father of paternity prior to birth, confirmed with a DNA test, should have no right to child support, etc. Why should a man have to pay for a child he was never informed existed?
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 3
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Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 12:34:59 PM
There should be some charges, not sure kidnapping is the right one. There should also be no reward. I.E. if a women waits a year or two and then tries for child support and limited visitation, with the why change the childs life after two years argument, courts should give the father back the years missed by awarding full custody to the parent that has been cheated out of visits or custody with the child. Now if a real attempt was made, but the mother did not know the guy she F%$#ed after the show at the beer barn it would be a different story, but still no back child support should be given or allowed and it should not be allowed to effect visitation. Also civil suits and awards should be allowed so the father could sue the mother when this happens.
 thatusernameistaken
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 4
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 1:22:08 PM
Wow..... I agree with most of what freetime just said..... twilight zone.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 5
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Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 1:28:35 PM

the man's pregnant wife was kidnapped


What does that have to do with DNA? Do you mean the mother took off with the kid?

There are far more cases of deadbeat parents then there are parental kidnappings.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 6
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 3:47:24 PM
If she was kidnapped then how could she have told him she was pregnant or when the baby came? Think her kidnappers were going to let her have 1 phone call just for that purpose?
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 7
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 5:52:10 PM
No forward support either - can't have it both ways. Unless she could actually prove she couldn't find him it should be voluntary on his part.
There are lots of women who want kids without partners.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 8
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/24/2010 9:25:39 PM
Could you not argue though, that by having sex with the woman the man is willfully abandoning his sperm?

I do not agree with not telling the father of the pregnancy and giving him a chance to stand up. But kidnapping charges are dependent on custody. If the mother has legal custody, then she cannot be charged with kidnapping.

It's a catch-22.
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 9
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/25/2010 4:17:07 AM
What if a guy lies and says she never told him when in fact she did and he just never stood up? How is she supposed to prove she told him? Most people don't think to save phone conversations or instant messages, if a guy told me he wasn't going to be around after I told him I was having his baby, I would not think to save any convos we had. I'd accept it and move on, not thinking years later he would want to see the child and then come after me with some sort of charge just to win custody and get out of paying child support.

Maybe if the man wants to press kidnapping charges, he should have absolute proof she never told him, because people do lie in these situations just to be nasty. It is not unheard of for a man to be gone for years then suddenly come back, and I would not put it past someone to put a phony charge on someone just to win custody so that when they finally decided to be there they wouldn't have to pay support.

Now if a mother by her own admittance says she didn't tell him, then no it's not kidnapping, in most states (like Ohio) the mother automatically has custody unless a court says otherwise. She should not be entitled to back child support either. But u know something? Even when the mother DOES tell the guy, and a DNA test is done, she still doesn't get back child support. That happened with me. I took care of my son on my own for 5 months until I finally got a DNA test back (when my son's dad knew all along about him) and it was never ordered he has to pay me back child support so it's the same either way.
 myblueshadow
Joined: 11/11/2009
Msg: 10
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Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/25/2010 8:50:08 AM
I think it's fascinating that a lot of people believe that men should have more responsiblities than rights, while women should have more rights than responsibilities, when it comes to children.

If a person, other than the mother, does something to harm and unborn child they can be charged criminally. Shouldn't the father have the same right to having his offspring protected?
 4408joseph
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 11
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Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/25/2010 5:58:43 PM
In the United States......

Unless the courts have an order, or pending family disputes, you

CAN NOT KIDNAP your own child...

So it's off the books for question... She would never be charged with kidnapping.



but if the father knows about the baby, and the baby being his..if the mother leaves (whether being the legal custodian or not) with out his direct permission, she would be liable for kidnapping, yes.


Legally a husband and wife are married. Either has a right to take the child where ever they want.. Would not advise it.. Most states have a minimum of 6 months residency to file court orders(divorce/separation/custody) States do this because they know custody battles start when one moves many states away and THEN files with the courts.

Again, YOU CAN NOT kidnap your own child, if NOTHING is ordered or pending.

Depending on what part of the world you went to, the worse case is they would have to return to answer to the courts.

In the OP question.. If it was done with malice I feel there should be criminal charges of a sort.
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 12
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/25/2010 6:36:40 PM
Can you please provide some actual proof for this statement please?

Come on taken, these forums are filled with posts that state just that. Plenty are quite happy that they are not having to share or compromise their parenting style.
I will give you that perhaps many would have liked a partner but didn't like the one who they got stuck with and now they're here. I have been on this site on and off for a few years now to know it is very obvious that many prefer their single parent status or haven't met anyone who will bend to their will or have probably overstepped on toes and got booted to the curb.

If you wish to push that simple statement further, I could start cutting and pasting.
Sprained my ankle and really have nothing better to do.
 PlanelyCrazy
Joined: 10/27/2008
Msg: 13
Does hiding paternity equal kidnapping?
Posted: 2/25/2010 11:50:32 PM


No forward support either - can't have it both ways. Unless she could actually prove she couldn't find him it should be voluntary on his part.
There are lots of women who want kids without partners.


The problem with 'voluntary' is that in quite a few cases it's not the woman asking for the support--it's the state going after the father once paternity is established, asking for reimbursement for past welfare payouts to the mother under some child poverty program. If the mother doesn't step up to the plate and pay for the child herself, someone else is going to have to pay: the father, the state, or the child. Your choice.

Personally, I don't see hiding paternity as rising to the level of 'kidnapping' in the true legal definition of the word. If the article referred to by the OP is the one I think it is (the Chilean military junta kidnapping and jailing the mother, killing her after the baby son is born, and one of the guards taking the baby home to raise as his own) IMO that goes far beyond the definition of 'kidnapping' as well.

The problem is, I don't believe there is an English word that expresses well the concept of 'hiding paternity' and the ramifications of that to the mother, father, child or society in a legal or ethical sense. We're in new social territory, and the existing laws and definitions are many years behind the times.
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