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 bliss.stars
Joined: 6/12/2009
Msg: 1
would you call CAS on a friend?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
my mom suggested i call CAS on a close friend after i vented a little...well, i vented a lot.

after i kicked my ex out last spring, i had my bff and her then 6 month old son move in with my son and i...

things were good for the first couple of months, however....i started seeing things that i still debate whether or not is just differences in parenting - or serious enough to report her.

first, her damn cell phone and the non stop texting. im not saying just texts here and there, i mean CONSTANT - she'll have her son in his highchair, and he'll be screaming for his food and she'll be sitting there texting...then he's so hysterical that he won't take the food, so she'll get fed up and say something like "fine, if you won't eat then you're done"...and then put him in his playpen.
she rarely plays with him because her phone is glued to her hand.
my mother says this is a form of neglect...?

if he wakes in the night, i'll be in my room listening to him scream for about a half hour, then i'll hear the door fly open, she'll yell "shutup" and pick him up for all of 10 minutes, then put him back and slam the door and let him cry. in the morning she'll ask if i heard him at all. at first i would say yes, but after i would lie and she would lie as well - saying she rocked him for almost an hour and so on...

he's ALWAYS sick...like - red eyes, snot face, fever....and she refuses to take him to a dr...she gives him motrin and says it will clear up and he needs it anyways. i understand the whole needing-to-get-sick thing, but to let it get this bad? his fever had to reach 103 for her to finally take him for medical help. he's had fevers this high almost a handful of times, im wondering if this is even normal?

she says she can't afford cable or a phone or whatever else - yet spends about 300 a month on pot.

she complains about a lot...any suggestions i make, she slways has an excuse...i suggested switching bottles because she was complaing about something, and she stated he won't accept anything else. i've tried to give her tips in other areas, but again - she makes a closed off answer. so i stopped.

she loves her son, he's her world..
i really hope this post doesn't come off the wrong way...i love her to death, and i love her son. they don't live with me anymore as of the new year, so now my moms saying i should make an anonymous call about her habits, as she thinks she is unfit.

so what do you guys think? i've been sitting on this since last fall, but i've distance myself since they've moved out in january.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 2
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 3:30:08 PM
From what you've stated here, I'd also have serious concerns.


she loves her son, he's her world..


But that's the thing, it's not about her, it's about what's best for her son. If she is not taking care of his needs (FOOD?! Really, she just gives up feeding him because he won't take it right away?! wtf), then this child is in serious danger.

CS won't take a kid out of parents' custody until they have conducted an investigation. My question to you: If something happens to this child because you haven't reported your VALID concerns, would you be able to forgive yourself?
 bliss.stars
Joined: 6/12/2009
Msg: 3
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 3:32:39 PM
thats what i was thinking too...shes not putting him first...and neither am i...ugh, i hate this...
 what_to_call_myself
Joined: 1/3/2010
Msg: 4
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 3:43:35 PM
being a parent can be fustrating sometimes, and its ok to take a few mins to collect yourself... but for her to be not taking care of her child that is just out right wrong..

babies/kids get sick and sometimes its pointless to be taking them into the doctors every cough they get, but if her child is getting worse even after been given the motrin then ya he needs to be seen and be put on anitbiotiocs...

just wondering as to how old your friend is....

and I dont agree with the hole pot thing but people are to make their own decesions in life and pot isnt so bad... but she dosent smoke it infront of her child dose she? or put off paying things for him to be abel to pay for that next spliff?

You are in a tuff situation, but if this child is only going to be screamed and neglected then you should make that call....
maybe it will scare her into becoming the mom she wants to be
 bliss.stars
Joined: 6/12/2009
Msg: 5
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 3:56:35 PM
she'll be 30 in may...shes never wanted kids and has always been the ""all about me" type...but oddly is a good friend lol...

she doesn't worry too much about money now because if she complains enough, her sister in laws brother will help her and lend her money.
she couldn't stop telling me a couple of weeks ago how they bought her a flatscreen and furniture...she said he spent close to 2000 and hes paying her cable now every month...i just replied saying if that was me i wouldn't be able to brag cuz i'd be emberassed...thats the last we spoke.
 4ever_4always
Joined: 2/16/2010
Msg: 6
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 4:02:05 PM
Oh my. :( That kind of is a really difficult situation to be in. I would find it hard to call on one of my close friends but I think for the sake of the child, I wouldn't question it at all. If you know that it's the right thing to do for him, make the call. This could be what your friend needs to smarten up and take care of him.

I wish you the best of luck with this situation. :)
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 7
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 4:02:43 PM
I think you should report. If anything, you can be held partially responsible for any wrongdoing because you are witness to child neglect... there's a law in that regard.


Your Duty to Report
Basically, everyone has a duty to report child abuse... read what the Child & Family Services Act says about it..

Responsibility to report a child in need of protection -
CFSA s.72(1).

If a person has reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection, the person must promptly report the suspicion and the information upon which it is based to a Children's Aid Society. .

The situations that must be reported are listed in detail below..

Child and Family Services Act CFSA s.72 (1) .

Despite the provisions of any other Act, if a person, including a person who performs professional or official duties with respect to children, has reasonable grounds to suspect one of the following, the person shall forthwith report the suspicion and the information on which it is based to a society .

1.The child has suffered physical harm, inflicted by the person having charge of the child or caused by or resulting from that person's,
i.failure to adequately care for, provide for, supervise or protect the child, or .

ii.pattern of neglect in caring for, providing for, supervising or protecting the child. .

2.There is a risk that the child is likely to suffer physical harm inflicted by the person having charge of the child or caused by or resulting from that person's, .

i.failure to adequately care for, provide for, supervise or protect the child, or .

ii.pattern of neglect in caring for, providing for, supervising or protecting the child. .

3.The child has been sexually molested or sexually exploited, by the person having charge of the child or by another person where the person having charge of the child knows or should know of the possibility of sexual molestation or sexual exploitation and fails to protect the child.
.

4.There is a risk that the child is likely to be sexually molested or sexually exploited as described in paragraph 3.
.

5.The child requires medical treatment to cure, prevent or alleviate physical harm or suffering and the child's parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, the treatment.
.

6.The child has suffered emotional harm, demonstrated by serious, .

i.anxiety, .

ii.depression, .

iii.withdrawal, .

iv.self-destructive or aggressive behaviour, or .

v.delayed development, .

and there are reasonable grounds to believe that the emotional harm suffered by the child results from the actions, failure to act or pattern of neglect on the part of the child's parent or the person having charge of the child..

7.The child has suffered emotional harm of the kind described in subparagraph i, ii, iii, iv or v of paragraph 6 and the child's parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, services or treatment to remedy or alleviate the harm.
.

8.There is a risk that the child is likely to suffer emotional harm of the kind described in subparagraph i, ii, iii, iv or v of paragraph 6 resulting from the actions, failure to act or pattern of neglect on the part of the child's parent or the person having charge of the child.
.

9.There is a risk that the child is likely to suffer emotional harm of the kind described in subparagraph i, ii, iii, iv or v of paragraph 6 and that the child's parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, services or treatment to prevent the harm.
.

10.The child suffers from a mental, emotional or developmental condition that, if not remedied, could seriously impair the child's development and the child's parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, treatment to remedy or alleviate the condition.
.

11.The child has been abandoned, the child's parent has died or is unavailable to exercise his or her custodial rights over the child and has not made adequate provision for the child's care and custody, or the child is in a residential placement and the parent refuses or is unable or unwilling to resume the child's care and custody.
.

12.The child is less than 12 years old and has killed or seriously injured another person or caused serious damage to another person's property, services or treatment are necessary to prevent a recurrence and the child's parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, those services or treatment.
.

13.The child is less than 12 years old and has on more than one occasion injured another person or caused loss or damage to another person's property, with the encouragement of the person having charge of the child or because of that person's failure or inability to supervise the child adequately. .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ongoing duty to report - CFSA s.72(2).

The duty to report is an ongoing obligation. If a person has made a previous report about a child, and has additional reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection, that person must make a further report to a Children's Aid Society. .

Persons must report directly - CFSA s.72(3).

The person who has the reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection must make the report directly to a Children's Aid Society. The person must not rely on anyone else to report on his or her behalf..

What are "reasonable grounds to suspect?".

You do not need to be sure that a child is or may be in need of protection to make a report to a Children's Aid Society. "Reasonable grounds" are what an average person, given his or her training, background and experience, exercising normal and honest judgment, would suspect. .

Special responsibilities of professionals and officials, and penalty for failure to report - CFSA s.72(4), (6.2).

Professional persons and officials have the same duty as any member of the public to report a suspicion that a child is in need of protection. The Act recognizes, however, that persons working closely with children have a special awareness of the signs of child abuse and neglect, and a particular responsibility to report their suspicions, and so makes it an offence to fail to report. .

Any professional or official who fails to report a suspicion that a child is or may be in need of protection, where the information on which that suspicion is based was obtained in the course of his or her professional or official duties, is liable on conviction to a fine of up to $1,000. .

Professionals affected - CFSA s.72(5).

Persons who perform professional or official duties with respect to children include the following .

health care professionals, including physicians, nurses, dentists, pharmacists and psychologists; .

teachers, and school principals; .

social workers and family counsellors; .

priests, rabbis and other members of the clergy; .

operators or employees of day nurseries; .

youth and recreation workers (not volunteers); .

peace officers and coroners; .

solicitors; .

service providers and employees of service providers; and .

any other person who performs professional or official duties with respect to a child. .

This list sets out examples only. If your work involves children but is not listed above, you may still be considered to be a professional for purposes of the duty to report. If you are not sure whether you may be considered to be a professional for purposes of the duty to report, you should contact your local Children's Aid Society, professional association or regulatory body..

Professional confidentiality - CFSA s.72(7),(8).

The professional's duty to report overrides the provisions of any other provincial statute, specifically, those provisions that would otherwise prohibit disclosure by the professional or official. .

That is, the professional must report that a child is or may be in need of protection even when the information is supposed to be confidential or privileged. (The only exception for "privileged" information is in the relationship between a solicitor and a client.) .

Protection from liability - CFSA s. 72(7).

If a civil action is brought against a person who made a report, that person will be protected unless he or she acted maliciously or without reasonable grounds for his or her suspicion..

What will the Children's Aid Society do?.

Children's Aid Society workers have the responsibility and the authority to investigate allegations and to provide services to protect children. .

A Children's Aid Society worker may, as part of the investigation and plan to protect the child, involve the police and other community agencies..

How to contact a Children's Aid Society.

Check the telephone directory for the office closest to you. In some communities, the Children's Aid Society is known as "family and children's services." The emergency pages in most Ontario telephone directories have the number to call to report to a Children's Aid Society..

All the children's aid societies/family and children's services have emergency service 24 hours a day, so that you can call anytime. .

For more information.

Contact your local Children's Aid Society or family and children's services.
If you suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection, contact a Children's Aid Society immediately. Your co-operation is vital to making Ontario's child protection system work.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 8
view profile
History
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 5:05:25 PM
Despite having lived on the other side of this with my stepson's issues with CPS and a judge that was a crazy nutter that made ALL the wrong decisions for his seven children, I would call in a heart beat.

She is neglecting her son. I don't always take my children to the doctor when they have a fever but my children also very rarely run anything over 100 and if they have infected sinuses, they need antibiotics, duh. If a fever was persistent or my kids had fevers regularly they would be going to the doctor, that's just laziness IMO.

If she ignores him that much one of the reasons he is probably sick is because he is always dirty and spreading the germs around even more than they normally would. My stepson's kids always seem to have snot all over them and are just like weird little live handprint machines. His older kids are the same age as my youngest and it was very freaky to be around them because they were always a sticky, dirty mess while mine wanted their faces/hands wiped from the time they were tiny.

She is also allowing him to languish during a time when language acquisition is very important. The poor kid is getting no verbal stimulation from her. If the television is on he is at least being exposed to more language there but if he is small enough for a play pen you should break that phone and see if she can't pay him some attention before he is 18. I have seen what this type of neglect produces in kids and it isn't pretty. My friend's cousin's kid that I speak of below has turned pretty much into a juvenile delinquent. When I have had my grandchildren who have been neglected since birth, they are 2-3 year or more developmentally delayed. We had to treat 5, 7 and 9-year-old children like toddlers. They also have spent their entire lives hungry and would ask for three helpings at every meal. This freaked my daughter out but when you never know when you are going to eat again, when food is available you eat until you are ready to pop. They have also lost their belongings so many times in evictions that they asked me a dozen times if I had their skateboards the day we took them home. I had already loaded them in my van but because they didn't see them, they were afraid they had permanently disappeared.

The kid probably has allergies and should either be on medication or running a vaporizer, keeping the house clean, etc. In some ways I believe that neglect is almost worse than physical abuse because I did not realize until those kids stayed with us the basic things that kids do not know to do for themselves unless they have been taught. The last day they were with us was the first day my youngest son was home having just come back from a vacation with another family. He asked to supervise the baths and he discovered that they did not know how to use soap. They thought that taking the bar and running it from their shoulder to their wrist was the end of it. He had to show this boy who was his same age how to lather the soap and actually use it, had to tell him to lift his leg out of the water to soap it up. After being there for days they didn't just go to the bathroom or ask to go, they would tell you they had to go to the bathroom and then sit there. There were hundreds of little things like that that made it so obvious that they were so far behind their ages that my middle son who was 13 hugged me the second day and literally said thank you for being my mommy. It was heartbreaking.

There was a very good point made earlier in the thread that you saw the sanitized version. Whatever was happening when you were around and could potentially be critical of something she did, you have to imagine is compounded to the nth degree with no one around to be Big Brother.

I seriously doubt they will find anything that would cause them to remove this child but this could serve as a wake-up call for your friend and even if they allow the child to remain with her, they may opt to require that she attend parenting classes to avoid additional intervention. If they find no abuse or neglect the case is closed and it is not a situation that if she is ever reported again this initial case, if no fault is found, it is like it never happened.

I have called CPS twice. I called once when I saw a woman throw her child (2-3 years old) from one side of the backseat to the other, and then she threw him back again. This was in the parking lot of the cable office. I have had kids act horrible in line but I figured if she is going to do that in a parking lot when she saw me sitting in my car, what is she doing at home with no one watching? They initially balked at taking a license number but I said that they could certainly find out through the police who the vehicle was registered to and at least try to follow up on the report. The woman asked her supervisor who had her take down the information. The hard part in making that kind of call, you have no idea what happened with the follow up.

Nearly 20 years ago a friend called me. She had lived with her cousin when the woman's son was an infant, was like a second mom. The woman was living on her own, and the child had previously gotten into the sharp knife drawer while she was sleeping and had let himself out of the apartment when she was sleeping, wandering around the complex for like a half hour or more in a diaper. She had always felt she did not take care of him properly but she was at that point really concerned about the child's safety. She also wanted to be able to answer truthfully if asked that she did not make the call.

I have actually had CPS called on me twice. My middle son both times ironically. When he was 2, he had a cut on his leg that happened when his sister let go of the screen door prematurely and it hit and then sort of scraped up. They saw his leg about 4 days later when the only mark was what looked like a small horizontal cut. He had also been playing a couple of days previous to this, came in and I noticed that he must have run into a small twig because he had a raised spot a half inch under his eye, you could see that he had been hit with something about the size of a pencil eraser. By the time he went to school, if you looked at his face at a certain angle he looked like he had had a black eye. Not anything I think that really would have caused concern but evidently my son told one of his teachers that I had cut his leg with a knife. He doesn't remember saying it or why, so it remains a mystery where this came from with a 2-year-old.

The woman came over when I was in the middle of working so strike number one, as I was expecting one of the students I tutored at that exact time, one of the kids answered the door. She refused to come into the house until I came to the door. My house was a shambles because I had been so busy that week that I hadn't done anything beyond totally necessary dishes, laundry, etc. I was obviously a total nervous wreck. We both had to sit and decipher the allegations to figure out that they were talking about his shin in stead of his chin. She looked at the kids, took pictures of all of them, talked with each of them in another room so that I wouldn't be influencing what they said. I was terrified that I would wind up like Valerie Bertinelli in that movie she made a decade or more ago when she was a good mom that was caught at a bad moment and had a horrible uphill battle to get her son back. The case was closed within a week. The woman said she saw no problems although she would probably recommend that I take a parenting class or two to have more tools to deal positively with the kids, blah, blah.

The second time I had this wonderful experience my middle son was probably around 6. Getting him to school would have tried the patience of Mother Theresa. I would almost every day either be met with him running back from the car yelling like someone was trying to kill him because he had gotten into a fight with his sister or I would get no more than barely in the car when he would again, run for the house like we were beating the crap out of him. My kids were never allowed to play in the front yard. They were not allowed by the street, however, my daughter had asked to roller blade on the front walk and we specifically told her not to go all the way to the street. So she is out about a minute, I look out and she is standing in the street with her foot right next to the curb, I had a heart attack and that ended her skating career.

So we get a young man coming to the door. This time I believe I answered it myself. He came in and said he was from child services, that the complaint was based on my kids playing in the street and me yelling at the kids, that they thought my middle son was being abused. I explained to him the going to school dynamic, that I did yell at my child the day he left a half gallon of dutch chocolate ice cream under his bed, when it wasn't supposed to be in the room and was on beige carpet. He spoke with the kids, checked them for marks, probably took pictures too. Even before he did that after about five minutes he said I'll probably be closing this case. Which he repeated two or more times before leaving. He told my husband several times that I needed more time away from the kid but he couldn't believe that they were that well behaved when their father was never home. I don't know how many times he said he couldn't believe that the kids were so well behaved with just me most of the time. When he asked me for references I said well one of the ones I will give you is in the next room can you just interview her? She told him that if she had any concerns about my discipline it was that I should probably discipline them more. Her husband said oh great, they'll be at our house tomorrow.

I believe the woman that visited me when my son was 2 intentionally dragged her feet a bit in closing the case to make me nervous and to make sure I was really thinking about the way I was parenting the children. It was a very unpleasant experience and not one I would wish on another person. The teachers at the pre-school obviously called the first time. I didn't think the call was necessary but given the knife comment they were really obligated by law to make the call. There was enough information on the second complaint that was sort of close to the situation that I believe my next-door neighbors that had moved in probably about a month or so before, probably did think I was beating the crap out of the kid and if I lived there I probably would have called on me too. He sounded awful when he was running screaming to or from the van.

I received a call from CPS a few years ago because I was listed as an emergency contact for a neighbor who had stopped staying at her house when her husband died, essentially leaving 13 and 16-year-old kids alone. She checked on them daily and made sure they had food and I tried to encourage my friend to get her shit together. When I got the call about the situation I did not lie for her. I told her that while the situation was bad and their mom needed to get home I did think the kids were primarily okay. Their basic needs were being met but they did need the supervision of an adult. After CPS got involved she did move back, and the kids did suffer because of her choices.

I had considered calling CPS and probably should have called them instead of getting involved only when school attendance and other issues prompted CPS involvement. If I had it to do over again, I would have made the call within a month of her leaving them alone. I know she had a hard time dealing with her husband's death but I cannot imagine what it was like for the kids dealing with it without their mother and hellooo, when you are a parent you don't have that luxury you suck it up and get over it. I think most of the time CPS does a halfway decent job. They are overworked and I believe the tendency to err is probably on the side of not removing children that need to be taken from the home because they really do not want to remove a child unless they believe there is imminent danger. Most jurisdictions are also generally short on qualified good foster homes.

I would rather make an error on the side of reporting if it is not really necessary than failing to report when it needs to be. Right now she is ignoring him in the height chair and play pen, do you believe she will suddenly change her texting habits just because he is more ambulatory and able to get into a gazillion things? As this child ages, this type of neglect becomes more dangerous. Depending on how long she takes to smoke that $300 worth of pot, you also have to worry that she is stoned out of her mind, at least at night, that's always useful in emergency situations.

If you want to read a chilling account of neglect to further solidify the right decision in this case, The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls. This was a severe and bizarre real example of neglect but you will see some of your friend in those parents. Sorry for the long post but my experience despite the negatives is that CPS is an underutilized resource.

My one word of caution about reporting is trying to use examples of the abuse that have been witnessed by many people that would not cause her to believe that the complaint was made by you. If she does not trust you and the child remains with her without requiring parenting classes or follow-up visits, you lose the ability to know what is going on and protect that child in whatever way you can. So while you need to give them information pertinent enough to investigate, you want to try to give them information that does not include things that cannot be only attributed to your personal knowledge.
 sooknw2010
Joined: 3/1/2010
Msg: 9
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 5:19:49 PM
I think you are right to be concerned. However, before calling CAS, maybe try talking to her about your concerns in a way that doesn't make her defensive. You could say that you noticed XYZ and ask if she needs any help with the baby. Clearly she is not doing the best job, but it may be because she does not have the skills or motivation to do one. Maybe all she needs is someone to help her in a supportive way or even help her find community resources (lots of parenting support stuff in the city).

Alot of moms (I'm a mom too), don't always want to admit that they aren't coping well, because we're supposed to 'naturally' be great moms right? haha. We're not perfect and neither is she, so first see what can be accomplished by talking to her and seeing what resources are available before involving the CAS.

Just my two cents. Good luck, I know it won't be easy.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 10
view profile
History
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/12/2010 5:35:39 PM
Snook, it sounded to me like she has already gone that route. Some people want to complain about their problems like they are somehow not a component of the situation. Every suggestion you give them, they immediately tell you why it will not work, not because they have tried it and failed but because they do not want to put in the effort to change things.

You also have to consider that this woman has seen how the OP parents. In many cases, instead of continuing to behave the way she does, she might have looked at the OP and realized that she didn't have the same type of behavioral problems and could have done some modeling but she is too absorbed in her stuff to take care of her kid.

I had a friend like this years ago. She could never talk on the phone, because she never spent even a half hour with this child after they got home from school and work before she got on the phone. She would also holler at him to take his bath from the other room half a dozen times and a half hour or hour later still couldn't figure out why he wasn't in the tub. If she had gotten up and asked him and stood there until he did, problem solved in under 5 minutes. It is lazy parenting and they are causing their own problems like with the feeding. She expects him to sit there like a little tiny adult happy to eat when she can squeeze a spoonful in-between the texts. So not only is the kid totally distraught, the kid has also skipped his meal. Kids eat when they are hungry but if they have to depend on someone feeding them? That's just totally fuked up. I get ticked just when I am in a store and I hear a really young infant screaming the hungry cry. That is SOOOO easy to fix, sigh. If I was a witness to that I would probably start feeding the kid myself, gak.
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/14/2010 4:50:02 PM
Absolutely I would make that call. In fact I actually did several times on my own child.
Another Poster asked "could you live with yourself if something happened to the child and you didn't call? Well could you??? The worst thing that will happen is the mother will get a wake up call and hopefully she will take better care of her child knowing that someone is watching. You didn't state that she physically abused the child so unless there is proof the child probably won't be removed from her custody. Hopefully this will the wake up call she needs to do right by her child. OP Please make the call if you haven't already.
 allys2
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 12
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/14/2010 8:47:32 PM
I think it is your DUTY to call CAS as she could kill him and it would be your fault for not doing so. I am not ashamed to say that I call CAS on a family member that I thought was neglecting their child. I even gave my name.
 privat33r
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 13
view profile
History
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/14/2010 11:00:01 PM
Your friend sounds like a completely fit mother. Hanging out with truly desparate families it becomes clear quickly that things can become absolutely tragic and still the kids are better with their natural families. Some do have to be removed, but lots of that junk is manipulative crap from jealous or meanspirited relatives, or spouses looking to grind an axe over something.

The acid test of this is that for families that have two spouses its easy to get away with almost anything. No one ever complains. Kids beg to come back even after someone's dog has bit their eye. People rarely say a word. Kids are still sent to sleep over, sometimes for weeks. No one cares if the kids found the katana and punched holes in the roof of the family room. Single women and guys get all the crappy whacky complaints.

Children get colds, the flu is rampant in doctor's offices, disease runs through daycare centers like flames through dry grass. There just doesn't seem to be anything that you friend is doing wrong. She won't buy cable?
 jojoaus
Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 14
view profile
History
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/15/2010 1:42:38 AM
OP, the vast majority of wise posters here have advised you to make that call. If it helps, remember the call is not 'against' your friend, it is 'for' her son. I understand your dilemma- we are taught not to tell tales, to be good friends and to keep confidences. Try to see reporting her as a triple win. The mum gets help to be a better parent, the bub gets better care and you get peace of mind.

I work in day care and see plenty of loving parents who simply have no clue how to parent. We have a little lad right now who is just not kept clean enough and has not had much adult interaction. both parents are educated but it doesn't translate into good parenting skills. We have had to call our equivalent of CAS to alert them because he is being neglected in some areas. It sucks but it is in the best interests of the child. Kids are vulnerable and have NO power, it really is up to us to protect them.

Good luck, and FWIW, I think you are being a good friend to her by looking out for her son and caring enough to doubt your course of action. But please... make that call
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 15
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would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/15/2010 7:34:08 AM
CPS laws and practices vary widely from state to state. In my state you would be under no legal obligation to report. However - there is indeed a moral obligation we all carry, isn't there?

If you were here, CPS would not remove that child. They would investigate - IF the child was malnourished (as confirmed by a doctor) or sick due to the mother neglecting to seek medical treatment - it would be considered legal neglect - otherwise the term "quality of life issues" gets bantered around a lot. There may be some sort of monitoring instituted, or perhaps parenting classes, etc. It is always taken into consideration if there is drug use on the parent's part; also, if the child is pre-school age (no one sees the child on a regular basis).

As to giving your name - strict confidentiality rules exist. It is illegal for a CPS worker to tell someone who reported - in fact, if your friend named you as the source of the report - the line the caseworkers use here is "I can neither confirm or deny that"...so a person could name 100 people and that would be the response.
 briargate
Joined: 8/18/2008
Msg: 16
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/15/2010 9:44:01 AM
I would tell your friend you think she is a bad mother first and see what happens. Once you make that official call to Child Welfare, you are going to royally mess your friend's life up. A file will be created and it's quite possible random visits will then happen. If they feel like it, they could take the child and place them in a foster home. Foster homes are supervised, but there is an economic incentive for people to take in foster children and many do it for the money. You don't ever want a child to have to go into a foster home, ever. Statistically, it's a bad place to end up.
 privat33r
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 17
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would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/15/2010 2:50:56 PM
Well "the wise ones say call".. I guess wisdom has nothing to do with experience or familiarity with the law.

She hasn't done a thing that's bordering on illegal or neglect. Kids fuss in highchairs, some have colic. Children get colds. Its not a good idea to run in and fuss over them every time they decide to kick up a fuss in their room. Did everyone here have only one child, don't you get out? Is all your experience with a child the single one you had?

Call and you'll lose a friend; they'll say "oh you were right" but 90% of the other mom's will never trust you again. Based on what you've stated children's services will find her place just fine. If they stumble across a few anomolies that you haven't mentioned they may make a few recommendations and she'll be given some help taking care of her kid. They may ask her to take some parenting classes if things are really wild, but the wild junk won't be anything you've mentioned because.. its all fine.

It is important that a support network also keep an eye out for the odd, but this just isn't that. What exactly are you saying that she's doing wrong. She smokes dope? Talks on her cell? Doesn't have cable?

Does no one know how wild it can become? Did you guys all grow up in the city away from poor people, separated from indigenous and troubled folk?

If you use abbreviations for social services that other parents don't recognize, you've fallen into a hole. Its a symptom of a wider neglect of common values. If it was important to know what these abbreviations meant we'd know them too. Rearing children is no less difficult for non-single families. The glibness with the abbreviations only means that social services and the law are being used manipulatively to gain other advantages. The kids are being used as pawns. There's no other reasonable conclusion, unless you think all the non-single families have no problems or are hiding them.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 18
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would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/15/2010 4:12:13 PM
Jojaus, excellent post.

Cookie, whether you give your name or not they are confidential, in that you are correct but you can also often recognize who reported you by the things that were reported. If she wants to continue to be around her friend and the child, she needs to structure the report based on things that have been seen by many people and not just her.

Privat, I think perhaps you are thinking about a sliver of this picture while some of us that gasp, have raised more than one child, are thinking about how this woman will parent when her child is ambulatory, and not safely ensconced in a high chair or a play pen.

The OP did not say she speaks on the phone she says that she is texting. If she was speaking on the phone this child would at least have a live person that while not interacting directly with him, was not a person on a screen. While it would not be actionable by the system, children need interaction. I have seen what happens to children that are ignored by their parents, it is heartbreaking. What is merely neglect now, could become criminal when she is texting, stoned, or whatever when the child is doing things that can be dangerous because he is not properly supervised. But yeah, way better to wait until something actually happens to have it checked into.

As many people have already said, the child will not be removed but she may hopefully be required to attend parenting classes and might actually be a more attentive parent. This is a bad thing?
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 19
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/16/2010 3:21:40 PM

Hmmmm....a 6 month-old having his food taken away because his mom's too busy with her phone to feed him before he gets completely hysterical...and somehow, she isn't doing anything wrong? A baby who has to scream for 30 minutes, just to have mom come in and yell at him and then leave him to scream some more? And that's proper mommy behavior?
OP, that baby can't speak for himself. You have to be his advocate, call whoever it is you need to call to get him out of that situation before it's too late.

I agree.
Too many people are spectators and critics of abuse while letting it go on under their own nose.

Protect the child... it's not rocket science.
 privat33r
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 20
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would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/17/2010 8:41:59 PM
Why so much unbalanced rhetoric in this Single Parent forum? Do you guys think its a great idea to rat your buds out to Provincial Ministries over minor childrearing opinions? Why are single parents held to such a higher standard than dual parent families. Really - why is that? I don't get it. This sort of accusation would never happen if the OP was visiting someone in a $1.3m home, coworker in the family, wife running the local hockey team and helping decide who travels to the national champs. People wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. I'm not saying they wouldn't talk - and I don't doubt the OPs bud is a little troubled, but it there some sort of open season on single mothers? Why are they the ones who get reported all the time?

No one is suggesting that communities shouldn't be observant of how kids are raised, or that the best people to do that aren't friends and relatives. Turning a blind eye to abuse is tragic.

Still do you see this as that sort of thing? For me.. I can think of 30 things I've done in the last week or so that are worse than this, probably 3 in the last hour. Its probably less danger as my kids are teens, but compared to the sort of amazing craziness that kids at the beaches I used to guard experienced I'm not in the running, or the league, not even landed on the island of poor childrearing.

Folk can use help. Its a good idea to be open to professional assistance. Those folk know there stuff. I've been amazed that asking for advise works.

However this isn't one of those serious cases unless its completely miss-stated.
 NarcissusTemple
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 21
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/18/2010 2:21:11 AM
Is it possible ellena is the subject of the OP's thread?
Based on the defensive response, it raises the question.
I can't believe anyone would give such a caustic response over concern for a child.

OT:
OP, you pose the question of neglect to CPS and CPS resolves the question.
You don't need to be SURE it's neglect, you only need to be suspicious.
Let the experts decide what to do. Even if nothing comes of it *this* time, the paper trail begins and if others observe the same (after she moves out in an indignant huff) and report her, it will make the case stronger.
You will surely lose this friendship, but sheesh--how much respect can you have for her after all of this?
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 22
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/18/2010 6:57:34 AM
Go ahead and report it. SHe isnt living up to what a mother should be.
They wont swoop i and take her kid right off the bat they will give her help, so she can shape up and prove to CAS that she is changing.
Assistace identifying the causes of her neglectful maternal behaviour and remedying the cause. Mandatory parenting classes where she can learn to appropriately care for a child. Drug testing, counseling, etc. You have to be a childs voice.
She needs to be a better mother, for th sake of her little child.


If this op actually watched this child "scream" for a half hour, Something is wrong w/ her. imo.
Id say there was something more wrong with the egg-donor that popped out the screaming neglected kid.


Sorry Ellena, most people care more about the well being of children than they do some egg-donors (mom is to nice a term) right to be an asshat in need of sterilisation.
 Pagan-girl
Joined: 2/7/2010
Msg: 23
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/18/2010 5:42:02 PM
shanadoh, the OP has said she tried making suggestions and was ignored.
And as for the children who are abused in foster care? It is obviously a well heard of problem, as you know about it. So don't you think that Child Services would be aware too? There is actually a very strict screening process now in affect for all prospective carers, and the foster carers are all monitored closely.
OP, I suggest getting in contact with the woman's parents and asking if they would be willing to help you have an intervention of sorts to get this mothers attention. The things you have listed that you are worried about are symptoms of untreated post natal depression. She is unable to create a bond with her child, and so he has sadly become a burden to her in her mind. Try and have a talk to her about her feelings towards her son in a non confronting way, and urge her to see a GP. She also needs to have her pot addiction addressed, maybe start by banning the substance in your house if she is smoking it there?

Please call child services, tell them your concerns, and request HELP, not that they look at removal of the child.
I know you are not the childs mother, but maybe if need be is there a chance you could take care of him whilst the mother gets a hold of herself? If so, suggest it to Child services when you call them.

Something must be done, OP, and as the closest person to this woman, you should put your hand up and be there.
 NarcissusTemple
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 24
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/18/2010 7:22:31 PM
Wow, brilliant suggestions, pagan-girl.
 AmandaNicole23
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 25
would you call CAS on a friend?
Posted: 3/19/2010 11:53:42 PM
Listen, if you know about any kind of abuse or neglect to a child it is your obligation to report it, regardless of your relationship with the person, this child is helpless, your friend is not.
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