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 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 2
A great day for AmericaPage 1 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
I have noticed that the countries that have socialized medicine also allow boobies on TV.
That correlation alone should have swayed a lot of the dudes here, yes?


My only concern is what else was signed in because it was attached to the medicine portion--that's what always what worries me in the USA. The part of the bill that they DON'T talk about. I just binged it and couldn't find the riders, but you just know there were some unsavory ones added. I wish THAT part of the Legislative arm of government would go away.
 Alli_oop
Joined: 6/30/2009
Msg: 3
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 9:54:40 PM
I think it's great. As a canadian looking at you guys, I'm happy things are shifting. And watch if things do go completely all the way and there's total reform, these freaky people like glen beck will grow to love it then claim America was the first nation to perfect the socialized/universal health care system.
lol
But I'm glad that things are progressing, it was very good news to hear.
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 4
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 9:59:29 PM
A great day for America?

We'll see?
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 5
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:04:07 PM
And watch if things do go completely all the way and there's total reform, these freaky people like glen beck will grow to love it then claim America was the first nation to perfect the socialized/universal health care system.


I don't think Glen Beck, or people like him, will ever love the idea of universal health care. I am Canadian too, and can honestly say socialized heath care has its pros and cons. The Beckman will continue to focus on the cons.
In my opinion it is a step in the right direction, but it is still a direction that needs work. At least the average American, who for whatever reason may find they could not afford health insurance at any point in their life, will have one less thing to worry about when trying to get their life back on track.
 hellofla
Joined: 2/7/2009
Msg: 6
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:14:34 PM
We'll SEE,,,,the FEDS have proved they can't manage $$$$$$$.
What.s next from Pelosilini?
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 8
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:24:46 PM

If we had to please everyone, no bills would ever get passed.


Yeah, guess that's why the only bipartisan part of this bill, is those who are against it.


What's next after socialized medicine?
 gitty--UP
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 9
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:25:08 PM
This does not concern me, I am fully covered.

But we will see how this pans out
 customjim
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 10
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:34:48 PM
70% of the polled americans were against it...yet it still passed...shows who is in power and who the powerful listen to
 gitty--UP
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 11
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:53:20 PM
polls can and are wrong, no news there
 Calray
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 13
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 11:32:00 PM
I don't think this is over yet. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts. 38 out of 50 states have stated that they will sue on constitutional grounds. I have to wonder how the commerce clause of the Constitution, which gives the federal government authority to regulate interstate commerce, can be applied to an industry that is so INTRASTATE, that it can not be purchased across state lines. And we're already beginning to see which groups will be made more equal than others in this legislation, specifically states with swing votes which were problematic when the bill was considered on it's own merits. So now the taxpayers of Indiana and Missouri will have the privilege of working extra hard to pick up the bill for the constituents of Louisiana, Michigan, and Nebraska because congressmen from those states used their vote as leverage to exempt their states from having to pay taxes and expenses generated by this reform. This could cause problems under the equal protections clause. I've never been so interested in the legislative process, but this is fascinating.

And the REALLY interesting time will come in November.
 customjim
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 14
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 11:48:33 PM
ha ha.. i knew i would get you to correct me...for what ever the reason, the majority of the people DO NOT want this bill passed as it is presented to us...we are arrogant americans who actually think we have a voice... we ignorantly think our government will hear our voices...we are not used to catching up with the rest of the western world and having things jammed down our throats and demanding that we swallow

this may well be a great day for america from your enlightened prospective... but for me , it is a frightening example of power politics...i hope it works out
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 15
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 12:27:53 AM

for what ever the reason, the majority of the people DO NOT want this bill passed as it is presented to us.

Yes, that's true. But at the same time, recent polls showed the majority of Americans would be pissed if no national health care passed. I happen to be one who wants national health care but am thoroughly disappointed with what happened to this bill. It's not too often we cocky Americans say this but I wish we'd just copied Canada's health care system and anybody who didn't like it could then purchase private health insurance.
 indianbob
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 16
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 1:09:46 AM
Rush is leaving the country, YEA! At least that was what he PROMISED.
Then again he did say that ALL DRUG ABUSERS should go straight to jail and we all know how that went when he got CAUGHT.

Later.
iBob
 Dancing_4_You
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 17
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 2:51:52 AM
money magazine just came out with a good article on improvements in the economy and why "people" hang onto fear based opinions. the smut that has been spread amongst the masses of fear based civilians, has made it's mark. before the hate mongering, americans were all for health insurance reform.

to me, it's a good start. i've seen better "experiments" implemented on a statewide basis, but also not w/o their unique political opposition. with politicians running amock, it would be impossible to have started with the "best" package. but, once it goes back and forth, up and down and then gets passed to the ones who draw up the regs which initiate implementation--and these then go to the states to interpret and administer actual policies and programs--maybe...soon... some people will not die unecessarily due to lack of access to our "modern" health care delivery system--reserved only for the few who can afford it and the ones who are not sick enough to have their insurance companies try to drop them from coverage!
 *Wild at Heart*
Joined: 3/2/2010
Msg: 18
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 2:55:09 AM
Here's an interesting article you might want to check out........................http://www.naturalnews.com/028416_health_care_reform_legislation.html
 Chevgirl
Joined: 9/21/2009
Msg: 19
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:01:19 AM
Congratulations USA! The bill might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction to making health care a right and not just for those who can afford to be screwed over by the health insurance companies.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 21
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:34:29 AM
I think I just heard Pelosi say that this health care reform will save a trillion dollars in taxes and insure 32 million previously uninsured "victims", I mean citizens. That's wicked. I wish she'd come work for Canada. Puff the Magic Dragon just quit. He was rad too.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 22
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:06:55 AM

Congratulations USA! The bill might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction to making health care a right and not just for those who can afford to be screwed over by the health insurance companies.


This about sums it up. I agree. It's a small step in the right direction, finally, after so many years of trying this kind of thing. Compared to what other countries have already been doing for their citizens for decades now, it's not a very big step, but it's a start. I predict in the future (albeit perhaps a generation away) we'll move towards something more like a Canadian-style system here, and this will have been the foundation of it, the beginning.

How to fund something like that sometime in the future?? Higher taxes for the rich, yes. And another thought: close some superfluous military bases around the world, end an occupation or two, and decrease drastically on defense spending (it should really be called "offense" spending in this country anyway IMO.... the US hasn't literally and truly been on the defense against another country or countries since immediately after Pearl Harbor in WWII).
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 23
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:00:56 AM
The U.S. is not going to dramatically decrease defense spending any time soon.

Fundamentally, defense spending in the U.S. has never been anything other than a Keynesian stimulus, except that Republicans claim to be against any other kind of Keynesian stimulus, while in practice steadily increasing the size of government whenever they're elected. No elected politician is really going to vote for putting a dent into a procurement process that allows him or her to put defence industry jobs in their state.

You spend a ton of tax dollars on things that are fundamentally useless for most purposes, except that their usefulness lies in their being a justification for spending politically allocated tax dollars, thereby stimulating the domestic economy. It's no different, really, than hiring hundreds of thousands of people to dig holes then fill them in again, except that unmanned drone aircraft seem way niftier than a bunch of holes in the ground.

The U.S. is also not going to seriously increase income taxes on the rich, either. That sort of step just produces perverse results: the rich step up their efforts at tax avoidance and out-and-out evasion, and capital flight results. I'm no big fan of the rich, I just recognize realities.

A few real solutions lie in recognizing the fact that you cannot run entitlements programs which are designed around 65-70 year lifespans, in a country with 80-90 year lifespans.

It cannot work; it only ever worked temporarily because of the baby boomer population bulge. Retirement age has to move to 75, and people 65 to 75 have to be expected to keep working. If they're healthy, why not? If they want to retire earlier, let them do so, IF they can pay for it themselves.

And the present U.S. system for pricing prescription medications is ludicrous. Why does a giant government deficit have to be incurred, to enrich pharaceutical corporations and allow the rest of the developed's world's seniors a cheap ride on the back of U.S. seniors? I don't know what's been changed in that area in the new bill, but if there's a radical overhaul it would be about time.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 24
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:11:21 AM
The U.S. is not going to dramatically decrease defense spending any time soon.

Fundamentally, defense spending in the U.S. has never been anything other than a Keynesian stimulus, except that Republicans claim to be against any other kind of Keynesian stimulus, while in practice steadily increasing the size of government whenever they're elected. No elected politician is really going to vote for putting a dent into a procurement process that allows him or her to put defence industry jobs in their state.

You spend a ton of tax dollars on things that are fundamentally useless for most purposes, except that their usefulness lies in their being a justification for spending politically allocated tax dollars, thereby stimulating the domestic economy...

The U.S. is also not going to seriously increase income taxes on the rich, either. That sort of step just produces perverse results: the rich step up their efforts at tax avoidance and out-and-out evasion, and capital flight results. I'm no big fan of the rich, I just recognize realities.


I agree. I'm sure the above is the realistic viewpoint. The military-industrial complex will remain as bloated as ever I'm sure. War, or a sense of being nearly constantly on the brink of war or threatened by war (if not "at war") seems to be a true cottage industry in this country. They won't give it up or fundamentally change that. Not in most of our lifetimes at least.

I was just saying though, what they should do, it was just *IMO*.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 25
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:22:35 AM

70% of the polled americans were against it...yet it still passed...shows who is in power and who the powerful listen to

Depends on which poll you look to and exactly how they asked the question. Galllup poll said 48%.


This does not concern me, I am fully covered.

For now. This is the problem, in my mind. The vast majority of Americans are covered through their jobs. They don't care. Those of us who are self-employed, or lose their jobs, or work in low-wage jobs that do not provide health insurance are in a very precarious situation.

My relatives in Italy find it hard to believe that we don't have some sort of universal health care here.

After Bush invaded Iraq, one of the things he promised the Iraqi people was to make sure everyone had health care. I wondered how come it was good for the Iraqi people and not good for us?
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 26
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:37:35 AM
^^Good question.

It's funny how the Republicans are running around already trying to get this repealed. Right...... And the article below is coming from a source that (like the David Frum blog I posted in the other thread) is not exactly inclined in favor of it:

http://www.businessinsider.com/one-thing-thats-100-guaranteed-the-healthcare-bill-will-never-be-repealed-2010-3

Already Republicans plan on introducing a bill this week to repeal last night's historic healthcare vote.

Obviously that's going nowhere.

But looking out, Republicans will probably try to run on repeal in the runup until November. It's possible that will play okay at the ballot (we don't know) but anyone who thinks this is a realistic prospect is smoking something illegal.

First of all, to repeal the vote would be just as difficult legislatively as passing healthcare was, so just think of how hard that was. Republicans would need 60 pro-repeal votes in the Senate to defeat a Democratic filibuster. And remember, they'd need a President who wouldn't veto the bill (i.e. not Obama or any Democrat).

But even that's putting too fine a point on it. Here's the real story, and it gets down to the fact that this new bureaucratic superstructure is now permanently ossified into our federal government.

There's just no way to repeal benefits. Even if people don't seem to like the new plan, there's no way a politician successfully runs on some combination of: let's go back to when insurance companies could exclude you for pre-existing conditions and let's go back to when your kid gets kicked off your healthcare plan the moment he or she gets out of college.

See the problem? It's the same reason no other benefit or entitlement will ever disappear.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 27
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 10:36:11 AM
Sorry but universal health care still scares me to death!

Is the government going to decide if we live, die, or get the care we need. If Nancy Pelosi agrees that too is scary.

Our government messes up every thing they touch. Public Aid, Medicaid, any of their programs treat people like cattle.

The only good thing about is is people have to carry their own insurance. Part of the reason health care is so high is we are also paying for those who can't pay their own.
 itsmeaaron
Joined: 4/2/2007
Msg: 28
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 10:38:23 AM
a great day? we'll see how things go in the next couple years. as was said earlier, i too am worried about the other things they dont tell you about, that are included. either way lots more new taxes.
 edencapwell
Joined: 3/13/2009
Msg: 29
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A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 10:49:14 AM
not really sure how it will affect me as i already had FREE health care courtesy of my employer. the old plan i had cost me a few dollars out of every paycheck, then i discovered there was a state plan that was free as long as i'm a union member which i am. i'm happy with the plan i have, really don't want any changes. but of course if you do not have a job, you probably don't have any medical benefits and that is not right.
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