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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > A great day for America      Home login  
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 Esme22
Joined: 3/5/2010
Msg: 1
A great day for AmericaPage 1 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35961584/ns/politics-health_care_reform/?GT1=43001

I think it is a wonderful thing. It is a huge change for America, a big step. Look around you. Most of the modern Western cultures have some form of universal health care. They are not crippled with taxes because of it. They are not socialist totalitarian regimes. It is an idea and an experience America needs to adapt to and get used to, but eventually it will function appropriately. No one expects this or anything to be perfect. But universal health care does work, and it is best for all. Americans just don't realize how the system that is controled by for profit insurance companies is exploiting everyone for the bottom line:not good health care but profits.

What do you think about this change for America? How will it affect you personally? I live in an EU country with universal health care and taxes are high, but imo well worth it. The high taxes don't just pay for health care, they pay for many other services which make this a safe and sane place to live.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 2
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 9:47:56 PM
I have noticed that the countries that have socialized medicine also allow boobies on TV.
That correlation alone should have swayed a lot of the dudes here, yes?


My only concern is what else was signed in because it was attached to the medicine portion--that's what always what worries me in the USA. The part of the bill that they DON'T talk about. I just binged it and couldn't find the riders, but you just know there were some unsavory ones added. I wish THAT part of the Legislative arm of government would go away.
 Alli_oop
Joined: 6/30/2009
Msg: 3
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 9:54:40 PM
I think it's great. As a canadian looking at you guys, I'm happy things are shifting. And watch if things do go completely all the way and there's total reform, these freaky people like glen beck will grow to love it then claim America was the first nation to perfect the socialized/universal health care system.
lol
But I'm glad that things are progressing, it was very good news to hear.
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 4
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 9:59:29 PM
A great day for America?

We'll see?
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 5
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:04:07 PM
And watch if things do go completely all the way and there's total reform, these freaky people like glen beck will grow to love it then claim America was the first nation to perfect the socialized/universal health care system.


I don't think Glen Beck, or people like him, will ever love the idea of universal health care. I am Canadian too, and can honestly say socialized heath care has its pros and cons. The Beckman will continue to focus on the cons.
In my opinion it is a step in the right direction, but it is still a direction that needs work. At least the average American, who for whatever reason may find they could not afford health insurance at any point in their life, will have one less thing to worry about when trying to get their life back on track.
 hellofla
Joined: 2/7/2009
Msg: 6
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:14:34 PM
We'll SEE,,,,the FEDS have proved they can't manage $$$$$$$.
What.s next from Pelosilini?
 Esme22
Joined: 3/5/2010
Msg: 7
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:16:57 PM

I have noticed that the countries that have socialized medicine also allow boobies on TV.
That correlation alone should have swayed a lot of the dudes here, yes?
LOL
They are not just on TV, they are in the newspapers, everyday. It's shocking!!


My only concern is what else was signed in because it was attached to the medicine portion--that's what always what worries me in the USA. The part of the bill that they DON'T talk about. I just binged it and couldn't find the riders, but you just know there were some unsavory ones added. I wish THAT part of the Legislative arm of government would go away.
That seems to be the case with every bill passed in the US: can't seem to get away from it; it's certainly not exclusive to this bill. If we had to please everyone, no bills would ever get passed.
 JackDiamond312
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 8
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:24:46 PM

If we had to please everyone, no bills would ever get passed.


Yeah, guess that's why the only bipartisan part of this bill, is those who are against it.


What's next after socialized medicine?
 gitty--UP
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 9
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:25:08 PM
This does not concern me, I am fully covered.

But we will see how this pans out
 customjim
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 10
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:34:48 PM
70% of the polled americans were against it...yet it still passed...shows who is in power and who the powerful listen to
 gitty--UP
Joined: 1/9/2010
Msg: 11
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:53:20 PM
polls can and are wrong, no news there
 Esme22
Joined: 3/5/2010
Msg: 12
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 10:57:55 PM
70% of the polled americans were against it...yet it still passed...shows who is in power and who the powerful listen to .


I don't know where you got your statistics, but according to the Rasmussen report it is not 70% against.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/addpost.aspx?PostID=13920804&x=31&y=5

While this is not a true majority, it is far from 70% against. Also, those against seem to be mostly republicans, which suggests a lot of partisanship in attitudes against the bill. The negative attitude against this reform is, imo, not against the reform itself as much as against the democrats and Obama. I hazard a guess that if the same exact bill were presented by an republican president, the majority of republicans would be in favor of it, and so would most democrats as they have been pushing for this for decades.

In the end, you will find it will be a good thing for the country. My god, catch up with the rest of the Western world.
 Calray
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 13
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 11:32:00 PM
I don't think this is over yet. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts. 38 out of 50 states have stated that they will sue on constitutional grounds. I have to wonder how the commerce clause of the Constitution, which gives the federal government authority to regulate interstate commerce, can be applied to an industry that is so INTRASTATE, that it can not be purchased across state lines. And we're already beginning to see which groups will be made more equal than others in this legislation, specifically states with swing votes which were problematic when the bill was considered on it's own merits. So now the taxpayers of Indiana and Missouri will have the privilege of working extra hard to pick up the bill for the constituents of Louisiana, Michigan, and Nebraska because congressmen from those states used their vote as leverage to exempt their states from having to pay taxes and expenses generated by this reform. This could cause problems under the equal protections clause. I've never been so interested in the legislative process, but this is fascinating.

And the REALLY interesting time will come in November.
 customjim
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 14
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/21/2010 11:48:33 PM
ha ha.. i knew i would get you to correct me...for what ever the reason, the majority of the people DO NOT want this bill passed as it is presented to us...we are arrogant americans who actually think we have a voice... we ignorantly think our government will hear our voices...we are not used to catching up with the rest of the western world and having things jammed down our throats and demanding that we swallow

this may well be a great day for america from your enlightened prospective... but for me , it is a frightening example of power politics...i hope it works out
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 15
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 12:27:53 AM

for what ever the reason, the majority of the people DO NOT want this bill passed as it is presented to us.

Yes, that's true. But at the same time, recent polls showed the majority of Americans would be pissed if no national health care passed. I happen to be one who wants national health care but am thoroughly disappointed with what happened to this bill. It's not too often we cocky Americans say this but I wish we'd just copied Canada's health care system and anybody who didn't like it could then purchase private health insurance.
 indianbob
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 16
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 1:09:46 AM
Rush is leaving the country, YEA! At least that was what he PROMISED.
Then again he did say that ALL DRUG ABUSERS should go straight to jail and we all know how that went when he got CAUGHT.

Later.
iBob
 Dancing_4_You
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 17
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 2:51:52 AM
money magazine just came out with a good article on improvements in the economy and why "people" hang onto fear based opinions. the smut that has been spread amongst the masses of fear based civilians, has made it's mark. before the hate mongering, americans were all for health insurance reform.

to me, it's a good start. i've seen better "experiments" implemented on a statewide basis, but also not w/o their unique political opposition. with politicians running amock, it would be impossible to have started with the "best" package. but, once it goes back and forth, up and down and then gets passed to the ones who draw up the regs which initiate implementation--and these then go to the states to interpret and administer actual policies and programs--maybe...soon... some people will not die unecessarily due to lack of access to our "modern" health care delivery system--reserved only for the few who can afford it and the ones who are not sick enough to have their insurance companies try to drop them from coverage!
 *Wild at Heart*
Joined: 3/2/2010
Msg: 18
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 2:55:09 AM
Here's an interesting article you might want to check out........................http://www.naturalnews.com/028416_health_care_reform_legislation.html
 Chevgirl
Joined: 9/21/2009
Msg: 19
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:01:19 AM
Congratulations USA! The bill might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction to making health care a right and not just for those who can afford to be screwed over by the health insurance companies.
 The Theory Of Everything
Joined: 8/11/2009
Msg: 20
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:16:06 AM
"Most of the modern Western cultures have some form of universal health care. They are not crippled with taxes because of it."

That's the funniest joke I've seen on here in a while

How do you think the UK funds it entitlement programs?

Gas is around $8/Gallon 75% of that is Tax.

Road Fund License $330/year, barely a 1/3 goes into new roads / repair. Forget about Toyota and GM, it's getting to the stage where we'll need NASA moon buggies to negotiate the craters in our roads.

VAT (Sales Tax) 17.5% with the whisper it may be raised to 21%, we're already in recession so lets hit sales even harder, create more unemployed and hence more entitlement.

"Americans just don't realize how the system that is controled by for profit insurance companies is exploiting everyone for the bottom line"

The UK NHS is the largest single employer in Europe, it's a monopoly, waste, inefficiency, and long waiting lines for some operations patients have been sent to hosptials throughout Europe .

Availablity of medicines is rationed according to cost. There have been cases where the Government will not fund life extending cancer drugs due to cost, so the individual has to pay, if they can afford it.

Er what was that, someone mention Government death panels ?

No medicine pescriptions in the UK are free of charge, you have to pay a contribution for each pescription.

":not good health care but profits."

The UK private healthcare industry is a boom industry able to treat customers with no waiting, state of the art equipment, and superior patient accommodation.

Isn't it abolutely disgusting that Private Healthcare Companies are allowed to make a profit for providing a far superior service.

"America needs to adapt to and get used to, but eventually it will function appropriately"

Just what our politicians have been promising us for the last 40 years

"What do you think about this change for America?"

America, guess what's heading your way

The shame is, US healthcare requires reform as it isn't equitable, but instead of reforming what's in place, Obarmy turned reform into an issue of politcal dogma.

All Obarmy had to do was say everyone will have private healthcare, allow cross state healthcare insurance to increase competition, insurance companies will no longer be able to exclude preconditions, place restriction on tort awards to lower practice liability premiums, and where people are unemployed or on low income, provide government assistance.

But alas politicians have proved in test case after test case, common sense and politcal dogma are mutually exclusive.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 21
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:34:29 AM
I think I just heard Pelosi say that this health care reform will save a trillion dollars in taxes and insure 32 million previously uninsured "victims", I mean citizens. That's wicked. I wish she'd come work for Canada. Puff the Magic Dragon just quit. He was rad too.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 22
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:06:55 AM

Congratulations USA! The bill might not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction to making health care a right and not just for those who can afford to be screwed over by the health insurance companies.


This about sums it up. I agree. It's a small step in the right direction, finally, after so many years of trying this kind of thing. Compared to what other countries have already been doing for their citizens for decades now, it's not a very big step, but it's a start. I predict in the future (albeit perhaps a generation away) we'll move towards something more like a Canadian-style system here, and this will have been the foundation of it, the beginning.

How to fund something like that sometime in the future?? Higher taxes for the rich, yes. And another thought: close some superfluous military bases around the world, end an occupation or two, and decrease drastically on defense spending (it should really be called "offense" spending in this country anyway IMO.... the US hasn't literally and truly been on the defense against another country or countries since immediately after Pearl Harbor in WWII).
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 23
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:00:56 AM
The U.S. is not going to dramatically decrease defense spending any time soon.

Fundamentally, defense spending in the U.S. has never been anything other than a Keynesian stimulus, except that Republicans claim to be against any other kind of Keynesian stimulus, while in practice steadily increasing the size of government whenever they're elected. No elected politician is really going to vote for putting a dent into a procurement process that allows him or her to put defence industry jobs in their state.

You spend a ton of tax dollars on things that are fundamentally useless for most purposes, except that their usefulness lies in their being a justification for spending politically allocated tax dollars, thereby stimulating the domestic economy. It's no different, really, than hiring hundreds of thousands of people to dig holes then fill them in again, except that unmanned drone aircraft seem way niftier than a bunch of holes in the ground.

The U.S. is also not going to seriously increase income taxes on the rich, either. That sort of step just produces perverse results: the rich step up their efforts at tax avoidance and out-and-out evasion, and capital flight results. I'm no big fan of the rich, I just recognize realities.

A few real solutions lie in recognizing the fact that you cannot run entitlements programs which are designed around 65-70 year lifespans, in a country with 80-90 year lifespans.

It cannot work; it only ever worked temporarily because of the baby boomer population bulge. Retirement age has to move to 75, and people 65 to 75 have to be expected to keep working. If they're healthy, why not? If they want to retire earlier, let them do so, IF they can pay for it themselves.

And the present U.S. system for pricing prescription medications is ludicrous. Why does a giant government deficit have to be incurred, to enrich pharaceutical corporations and allow the rest of the developed's world's seniors a cheap ride on the back of U.S. seniors? I don't know what's been changed in that area in the new bill, but if there's a radical overhaul it would be about time.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 24
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:11:21 AM
The U.S. is not going to dramatically decrease defense spending any time soon.

Fundamentally, defense spending in the U.S. has never been anything other than a Keynesian stimulus, except that Republicans claim to be against any other kind of Keynesian stimulus, while in practice steadily increasing the size of government whenever they're elected. No elected politician is really going to vote for putting a dent into a procurement process that allows him or her to put defence industry jobs in their state.

You spend a ton of tax dollars on things that are fundamentally useless for most purposes, except that their usefulness lies in their being a justification for spending politically allocated tax dollars, thereby stimulating the domestic economy...

The U.S. is also not going to seriously increase income taxes on the rich, either. That sort of step just produces perverse results: the rich step up their efforts at tax avoidance and out-and-out evasion, and capital flight results. I'm no big fan of the rich, I just recognize realities.


I agree. I'm sure the above is the realistic viewpoint. The military-industrial complex will remain as bloated as ever I'm sure. War, or a sense of being nearly constantly on the brink of war or threatened by war (if not "at war") seems to be a true cottage industry in this country. They won't give it up or fundamentally change that. Not in most of our lifetimes at least.

I was just saying though, what they should do, it was just *IMO*.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 25
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:22:35 AM

70% of the polled americans were against it...yet it still passed...shows who is in power and who the powerful listen to

Depends on which poll you look to and exactly how they asked the question. Galllup poll said 48%.


This does not concern me, I am fully covered.

For now. This is the problem, in my mind. The vast majority of Americans are covered through their jobs. They don't care. Those of us who are self-employed, or lose their jobs, or work in low-wage jobs that do not provide health insurance are in a very precarious situation.

My relatives in Italy find it hard to believe that we don't have some sort of universal health care here.

After Bush invaded Iraq, one of the things he promised the Iraqi people was to make sure everyone had health care. I wondered how come it was good for the Iraqi people and not good for us?
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