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 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 2
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...Page 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Death better be that I cease to exist, I do not want life after death, I have no greedy need to live on & on & on in some other realm or body or life, I look forward to total nothingness after death. I sure as heck don't want to floating around and spying on my family like some stalking guardian. I find most people's idea of Heaven or life after death to be really creepy.
 tjrogelio
Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 3
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/6/2010 10:44:19 PM
A years back, a man kept pestering me, trying to 'save' me. I wouldn't take the bait.

Finally, he said, "Don't you want to spend eternity in heaven?"

"Will you be there?" I asked.

"Yes, I will", he said with confidence.

"No, thanks", I said.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 4
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 1:45:08 AM
I've got a feeling that Heaven is not a place where you get to indulge yourself in all the neat stuff you didn't get while you were alive.
The whole 70 virgins thing is undoubtedly not true.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 5
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 2:14:16 AM
If heaven does exist, I would not want to spend eternity in a place where you do nothing but sing of worship and praise. Sounds like the ultimate sycophants' convention to me.

I would prefer to spend an infinite amount of time wandering the Universe... seeing all of its' wonders up close.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 6
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 3:54:16 AM
this topic reminds me of huckleberry finn's reaction to miss watson's description of heaven:

Then she told me all about the bad place, and I said I wished I was there. She got mad then, but I didn't mean no harm. All I wanted was to go somewheres; all I wanted was a change, I warn't particular. She said it was wicked to say what I said, said she wouldn't say it for the whole world; she was going to live so as to go to the good place. Well, I couldn't see no advantage in going where she was going, so I made up my mind I wouldn't try for it. But I never said so, because it would only make trouble, and wouldn't do no good. Now she had a good start, and went on and told me all about the good place. She said all a body would have to do there was to go around all day long with a harp and sing, forever and ever. So I didn't think much of it. But I never said so. I asked her if she reckoned Tom Sawyer would go there, and she said, not by a considerable sight. I was glad about that, because I wanted him and me to be together.
 luckyhot777s
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 7
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 4:13:32 AM
I always thought it would be great if you get there and are given a choice of living in an era that existed since the beginning of time and now.
 migivadamsbusted
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 8
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 4:56:41 AM
I'll let you know whats its like when I get there.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 9
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 5:06:57 AM
I find it disturbing that; for some with a theistic bent, they can't even fathom how one can be a moral person without the threat of eternal punishment or bribe of a fancy happy place in the clouds... to influence their behaviour. It's a motivation based entirely on self-concern, kinda' contradictory if you think about it.


I find most people's idea of Heaven or life after death to be really creepy.

Yeah, ...I think I know exactly how you feel.
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 10
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 7:22:27 AM
I think I will stick with the idea of the old quote "Heaven for the weather, Hell for the company".

I don't really subscribe to the idea of Heaven/Hell or an afterlife based on your actions in daily life. I think it's up to you to find the good(heaven) and deal with the bad(hell) of day to day existance. No point saving up for something that may not exist, better to enjoy the here and now.

As long as you like who you are as a person, that should be what matters. Not being they type of person trying to buy admittance to an exclusive club by denying your human nature. I don't want to belong to any club that I have to be someone other than the flawed person I am to belong to. But that's just me.
 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 11
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 8:31:40 AM
I'm with whenwillthiswork and Daynadaze - that Heaven is the here and now. I don't subscribe to harps and wings - and every now and then, when I'm making the beast with two backs, the disturbing thought that my deseased mother is 'watching over me' really blows the mood!
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 12
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 10:42:18 AM
In the great Hindu scripture, the " Mahabharata ".......
When Arjuna ( the worlds greatest warrior ) dies, Krishna takes him to Heaven.
Arjuna arrives in Heaven and looks around and notices that all his old enemies are there.
Arjuna exclaims, " This can't be Heaven ! All my enemies are here. These are all the evil people, the one's I fought against all my life ".
Krishna answers, " You're right, there's been a mistake. You aren't supposed to be here, you're supposed to be in the other place ".

So, Krishna takes him down to Hell.
When he arrives in Hell, Arjuna looks around and finds all his friends and family.
Arjuna exclaims, " We aren't supposed to be here. We were the good guys, we fought for what was right and good. We shouldn't be in Hell ".

And, Krishna answers, " Yea,..... you always did think that, didn't you ? "
" Now, let that be your last fantasy ".

When Arjuna and all his family and friends released all their prejudice, hatred, and egotism, they went to the true Heaven where they existed in peace for all eternity.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 13
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:17:12 PM
Years ago, I saw a great episode of the original Twilight Zone series in which a gangster dies and finds himself in what seems to be heaven. He's a little surprised considering the life he led from a young man onward. He's in a swank apartment. He's got the best booze, the prettiest women on his arms. Every shot on the pool table is perfect. It seems...perfect. But, after a while, it just seems wrong. Nothing is exciting anymore. Nothing has that zip of life. He goes to his guardian angel and says, "you know what, I don't want to be here anymore. Send me to the other place."

"Don't you understand?" says his guardian angel. "This is the other place."


A years back, a man kept pestering me, trying to 'save' me. I wouldn't take the bait.

Finally, he said, "Don't you want to spend eternity in heaven?"

"Will you be there?" I asked.

"Yes, I will", he said with confidence.

"No, thanks", I said.


Brilliant!
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 14
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:20:19 PM
ok to be fair, the modern christian idea of 'heaven', was only started after the 4th century, and by the romans, the early christian churches, had a diverse idea of what heaven was, the gnostics believed, they would be going to a place where there would... well be a constant party, with a lot of food, and sex,the aryan christians,who controlled almost half of the remains of the roman empire also believed in a heaven with a lot of fun, it really was not until the dark ages and early middle ages, that, the boring christian heaven developed, but till the reformation, at least the catholics, had luxuries for the poor, calvin, and luther the people that banned all sorts of fun,(calvin, had his chief rival burned alive, once reports came back that while he was in england, he danced at the royal court!)that the idea of the modern christian heaven was finalized , the catholics adopted this new and boring version of heaven during the counter reformation
the masses, the poor people lived a miserable life, full of violence, plagues, exploitation,, and ignorance, so you can believe a life of peace everlasting and and praising god, i might add that even in heaven they where lined up by there status in life,popes martyrs, priest, christian kings, lords, where closer to to glory of god, like a wedding cake, they even in the afterlife where at the bottom, must have sounded pretty good to them, the idea of making heaven boring was to keep the masses in there place, if heaven was a great place, with a lot of fun, people might have wondered why not have fun in this lifetime
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 15
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:25:18 PM
Okay, ....Heaven joke, ...with a musicians point of view.

When Jerry Garcia died, he woke up and found himself on a stage on which a number of instruments were set up. A door offstage opened and in walked Jimi Hendrix on guitar, Jaco Pastorius on bass, Charlie Parker on alto sax, Mozart on keys

Each musician picked up his favorite instrument and began tuning up.

Jerry walked up to Jimi and said, “Man, so this is what heaven is like?"

Jimi looked at him and said, “Oh man! Heaven? You think this is heaven?”

At that moment, Karen Carpenter walked in, took her seat behind the drums, and called out, “Okay guys, ‘Close to You.’ One, two, three, four!”
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 16
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:36:27 PM
keep me dead

Thanks.
That explains to me in three words the entire pro abortion movement.

 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 17
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 2:10:40 PM
Aside from the foot pain of eternity walking on streets of gold, it would truly be hell if we had to spend eternity with Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, Falwell, toe tapping Craig, and the rest of the gang of self-righteous, hypocritical, judgmental Babble thumpers. Of all the creatures on Earth, humans tend to be inherently the least pure.

"The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven, not man's." ~Mark Twain
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers

While walking down the street one day, a senator is tragically hit by a truck and killed. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to Heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems
there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts,
you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the senator.

"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is
to have you spend one day in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

"There's no need! I want to be in Heaven," says the senator.

"I'm sorry but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator, and he goes down,down, down into Hell. The doors open, and he finds himself in the middle of a beautiful green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse, andstanding in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him. Everyone is very happy and in formal dress. They run to greet him, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster and caviar.

Also present is the Devil, who is a very friendly guy who has a good
time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that,
before the senator realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a
big hug and waves while the elevator rises. The elevator goes up, up,
up, and the door reopens on Heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

"Now it's time to visit Heaven," St. Peter advises the senator.

So 24 hours pass, with the senator joining a group of contented souls
moving from cloud to cloud, playing their harps and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by, and St. Peter returns.

"Well, you've spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now, you must
choose where you want to spend eternity."

The senator reflects for a minute, then answers: "Well, I would never
have thought I would say this: I mean Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better satisfied in Hell."

So Saint Peter escorts him to the elevator, and down, down, down he goes into Hell. Now, the doors of the elevator open, and he is in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags. And it's hot, hot, hot and the odor is just horrible. Sweltering hot. Hot and miserable. The Devil comes over to him and smoothly lays his arm around the senator's shoulder.

"I-I-I don't understand," stammers the senator. "The day before
yesterday I was here, and there was a beautiful golf course and
clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, and danced and had a great
time. Now all there is is a wasteland full of garbage, and my friends
look miserable."

The Devil looks at the senator, smiles, and says, "Yesterday we were
campaigning. Today you voted for us."
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 18
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 2:33:01 PM
@Message 4 ... For sure since I'm an atheist/non-believer/non-religious (or all of the bunch), I've often heard that joke. But not because someone wants to insult me, because they want to go where I go. (Do sick people still need their nurse in heaven? If so, when do I get a break?)

I believe in reincarnation, so I have no idea where I'll land once my "energy" is done with this old body. Might just be in limbo for a while ... until I'm ready to resurface. I've kind of been tossing the idea around of hypnosis so I can find out who I was ... before me now.

I really don't need "heaven" and don't care about being anyplace like "heaven".


heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Not that I wish anyone any real discomfort, but I do hope there is a very "special place" for folks like the previous administration's torturers and those who planned and schemed to kill so many innocents.
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 19
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 3:26:15 PM
For those in Heaven with their 72 virgins punishment may be the result when you figure they left their d!cks all charred somewhere in New York City.


 calisto04
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 20
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 5:23:25 PM
Hi OP:

I mean-
keep me dead, don't wake me up to sing eternal praises
dressed in a white robe
for all eternity- too, too boring
it's as silly as-
if I said to my two children-
great you cleaned your bedrooms-
as a reward- now you can go clean the bathroom-
Yes, that would be my view on that as well.

I do like your version of heaven ---
my version of heaven-
would include-
a professional chief
maybe janus and jimi would play a concert or two
a vast library
a wet bar
pot on demand
living on the beach- maybe in a tent
and the mountains nearby


My personal belief system does not include heaven either way, so if I had to choose one I'd choose the one with the wet bar near a beach but close to the mountains as well.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 21
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/7/2010 6:06:16 PM
There is also no reason to be disrespectful to the agnostics, atheists, pagans, less-than-supremely-pure Christians, other tribes of Abraham, and billions of others who do not wish to share space in eternity with disrespectful people. If heaven has such rules, it is hell for others. I have been damned to hell for holding up a sign that merely asked, "Whom would Jesus Bomb", that by a street preacher who loved killing Iraqis because of the 9/11 excuse to hate another tribe. Had kids carrying crosses of persecution from a local bible college scream unholy obscenities for wishing for peace over war... It is hard to want to go to "heaven" with these insane people, missing a message or a clue..condemning Nuns, Preachers, Veterans, and all sorts of other fellow citizens to hell...for not condoning death afar, and loving post birth abortions at home.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 22
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/9/2010 12:16:36 AM
Re: life/ death....be the best that you can be today....don't worry about tomorrow...

Be true to thine own self.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 23
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/9/2010 4:54:06 AM
Krebby..
Taint a Polka long on lyrics....
"And when we're gone from here
Well, our friends will be
Drinking all the beer"

One would think that in heaven, there is beer if there was a just god. Or at least a well full of wine. Asgard, the Norse version has rivers of Ale and Mead. Hell would have Coors Lite and Pabst.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 24
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/9/2010 5:56:15 AM
Krebby..
Taint a Polka long on lyrics....
"And when we're gone from here
Well, our friends will be
Drinking all the beer"




In the later years of my father's life, he liked to listen to a lot of German "beer hall" music, ...most of which had both heaven and beer as a major part of the "libretto". There was one that made him laugh all the time and he translated it for me as we listened in his car, this is around a year before he died, basically it was the story of the descendants of a grandmother who, after inheriting, then selling her house ...were spending the proceeds on beer, the chorus was (roughly translated), "We're all drinking grandma's house and we're all going to heaven, 'cause we're so good".

....Made me laugh too.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 25
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/9/2010 7:31:10 PM
LOL, The TX Hill Country, interesting place -- one of the places in the U.S. where folks from Germany, Mexico, Native Americans, African Americans and others had to find a way to get along. Eventually, the German " (Polka)" music meshed with Mexican music, and wound up as an odd assortment of guitar, accordion, and the infamous "oom pah" horn, whatever it's called. By far the wierdest (and latest) iteration is "Banda" bands. IMHO, it's AWFUL!, hehe , but makes you smile anyway, it's so ditzy.

Ha ha! I'm a session musician by trade, who happens to specialize in fusing ethic genres (nothing new here), I'm well aware of this stuff, Flaco Jiminez was my introduction to this regional smorgasbord (well, bad word for this mebbe'), ...I know as "Tejano", ...this influence also went further west to infect what became known as the "Bakersfield" sound popularized by Buck Owens and the late Don Rich, ...they used to do polkas too, ...in the old days. Even Robert Johnson (an early delta bluesman) used to do polkas. Ry Cooder (one of my big influences) tells a great story about trying to track down Flaco, always showing up where he was supposed to be playing, only to find out that he had already moved on to another town, ...it took a while, but Ryland tracked him from Texas down to Mexico and finally caught up with him after a month or so, and Flaco became a part of Ry Cooder's best stuff for years.

Reminds me of an old musicians joke, what's the difference between a banjo and an accordion?:

You can throw a banjo further.


in Cajun music. Ironically, here, the beer is cast in juxtaposition with "the devil" in a funny and very clever manner. But, here again, the message is to put life on hold for the moment, live it up, and worry about the eternal, tomorrow.


Yes, the Brits chased the Acadians ('Cajuns) out of the Maritimes in Canada, French speaking settlers from Brittany, ....and gave us Cajun music by fusing the music of the Acadie and Creole, and then the further fusion of Creole, Blues and French Canada known as Zydeco... Long live diversity. I think the beer/devil bits come from the mix of the French Catholicism and it's weird cousin "Voodoo".

Only goes to show, ...when we can all get along (as is often shown in music), the result can indeed be heavenly.

I've been playing music all my life (well, from the age of 5 on), and when I am in that moment, with people I love to play with, ...it is indeed, heaven (not unlike every second spent with my southern belle ...ahhh yes, heaven is ...diversity).
 JMars
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 27
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/10/2010 11:11:33 AM

Asgard, the Norse version has rivers of Ale and Mead. Hell would have Coors Lite and Pabst.


Aaaah, indeed. There's no Heaven like the Germanic Heaven ... at least in my shamelessly biased opinion.

But did you ever notice how wine or mead, or some other inebriating substances is so often a part of religious ritual and "getting in touch withte gods"?

Them vikings clearly weren't just making that "rivers of mead" stuff up.

So, any takers on the position of the next human sacrifice? :))
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