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 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 2
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The Catholic Church and sexual abusePage 1 of 1    
It's an epidemic all over.. Google Mt Cashel Newfounland Canada and it will tell you about the Bishop charged for sexual abuse of young boys in his care.

Blame is on a religion that dictates that men (and women) should give up sex and the urge to pair bond with a life-mate of the opposite sex in the name of God.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of any quote or dictum from God that has dictated forced abstinance or forced singlehood.

It's disgusting what's happening and, If I had a son or daughter young enough to not know when a good swift kick in the nutz is warranted.. there is a snowballs chance in hell that I'd leave them in the care or alone with any priest or nun for that matter.

Shame and disgust on the catholic church, it's politics and the enabling by it's secrecy .. A blatant disrespect of the innocent and the very laws of the land.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 4
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/11/2010 4:38:16 PM
I believe priests and nuns are trying to be like Jesus, who claimed celibacy for himself. As have many saints throughout the ages. I think they all had different reasons for "abstinence", but the basic premise is that they are so other-worldly that they have no use for carnal pleasures (so didn't eat big or rich meals, either).

I do not believe that *only* Catholic priests have abused children or their status, anyway, so this whole post is pretty much just an attack on Catholicism instead of on abusers, where it should be. I get it, the Church covered up some instances of abuse so you hate the Church. One wonders why the CATHOLIC church is so important to you that you have to single it out. Google it--lots of protestant pastors have abused their "authority" and impregnated teens girls/married women and abused kids or both genders.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 5
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/11/2010 4:54:46 PM


I do not believe that *only* Catholic priests have abused children or their status, anyway, so this whole post is pretty much just an attack on Catholicism instead of on abusers, where it should be. I get it, the Church covered up some instances of abuse so you hate the Church. One wonders why the CATHOLIC church is so important to you that you have to single it out. Google it--lots of protestant pastors have abused their "authority" and impregnated teens girls/married women and abused kids or both genders.


The RCC gets singled out because at all levels of the hierarchy the Church has covered up the crimes. To the best of my knowledge this has not happened with other denominations or religions.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 6
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The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/11/2010 5:36:00 PM

so this whole post is pretty much just an attack on Catholicism instead of on abusers, where it should be. I get it, the Church covered up some instances of abuse so you hate the Church. One wonders why the CATHOLIC church is so important to you that you have to single it out. Google it--lots of protestant pastors have abused their "authority" and impregnated teens girls/married women and abused kids or both genders.
Since my opinion is the dogma of the Catholic Religion that has perpetuated the problem then it is logical to blame the athority figures of the religion ~ not the religion in itself for the problem and the enabling.

Would you have us condemn some other un-involved sect for what the Catholic hiearchy continues to hide (pedofillia and sexual abuse) instead of utilizing the judicial system and have these men convicted and tried for their crimes? Those high-end clergy who swept the abuse under the rug should also be charged as being accomplises to the crime.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 8
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The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/12/2010 12:19:54 AM

this whole post is pretty much just an attack on Catholicism instead of on abusers, where it should be.

Sounds like a quote from the Vatican handbook....deflect, deflect, deflect....and never, EVER discuss the obviously rampant problem in any meaningful way.

the Church covered up some instances of abuse

Some??? More like a boat load.

the basic premise is that they are so other-worldly that they have no use for carnal pleasures (so didn't eat big or rich meals, either).

So....carnal pleasures are out, likewise big rich meals....but gold rings, opulent robes, a city state and a massive treasure chest of cash and holdings is okay.

From all accounts Jesus had none of these....
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 11
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The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/14/2010 11:20:05 PM

It seems most of the stories of sexual abuse so far are about Ireland and the US, but logic would dictate it has not been confined to those 2 countries. How can the church have any credibility when they have spent so much effort and money to cover up what was happening?


The RCC, and this pope in particular, are in serious trouble - and (by their own actions) making it far worse than it even was to stsrt with.


Over recent weeks, the Vatican has often resembled a fire brigade as it dashed to quench a fire in one place only to find another has broken out elsewhere, and never knowing where the next might blaze up.
It was caught completely off guard on several occasions, before and after Easter, when its own people started fires right inside the Vatican.

Jews and gays
On Good Friday, Fr Raniero Cantalamessa, preaching in St Peter's Basilica, sparked tensions with Jews by quoting a letter from a Jewish friend that suggested a comparison between the attacks against Pope Benedict with anti-Semitic attacks on Jews.
On Easter Sunday in St Peter's Square, the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Angelo Sodano, dismissed as "idle chatter" the accusations against the Pope, thereby offending victims' organisations.

On April 13, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Secretary of State enraged the worldwide gay community by asserting that studies show a link between homosexuality and paedophilia.

The Vatican press office had to quench that fire too.

Commenting on these missteps that fanned rather than moderated the media frenzy, Andrea Tornielli, a leading Italian commentator on the Vatican, said "all this makes it difficult to understand what is the Vatican's strategy and line of response".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8621197.stm


Talk about self-crucifixion....

A partial list of countries where the RCC has been subject to claims of abuse.Truly a worldwide problem....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8576268.stm

Ireland, the USA, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland.....

And many other places :

April 7, 2010

A Roman Catholic order in Quebec is defending its reputation after a former French bishop claimed he was asked to take in one of its priests who was found guilty of sexually abusing children in the 1980s.

Jacques Gaillot is a former bishop of Evreux, France, located about 100 kilometres west of Paris. Gaillot told a Parisian newspaper earlier this week he regretted appointing Denis Vadeboncoeur to head a parish in western France, where he was convicted in 2005 of child abuse.

"We were being helpful," Gaillot said in an interview with Le Parisien. "We were asked to take in an undesirable priest and we agreed."

But Vadeboncoeur's old order in Quebec, the Religieux Saint-Vincent-de-Paul, denies it had anything to do with Vadeboncoeur's career being allowed to continue in France.

They said he went to France on his own initiative in 1987, two years after being given a 20-month sentence in Quebec for sexually assaulting children.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/04/07/quebec-pedophile-priest-cp.html#ixzz0l99dt8VY


Even on his home field, this Pope is losing support :


The child sex abuse scandal battering the Catholic Church has led to accusations that Pope Benedict covered up cases of abuse.

Even in Traunstein, there is growing disappointment with the Pope. I chat with people on the main square.

"We were proud to have a German Pope," one woman tells me, "but that pride has gone."

"The abuse scandal comes as a shock," says another. "Now people are leaving the Church."

So far, more than 300 cases of physical and sexual abuse by priests have been reported in Germany, stretching back to the 1950s and involving Catholic boarding schools, monasteries and the famous boys' choir in Regensburg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8590287.stm


So much for the Pope's infallibilty, it would seem.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 12
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History
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/15/2010 1:23:42 AM
No human is infallible...for the RCC to claim that a pope is...is hubris to begin with...let alone the obvious political machinery within the RCC that controls who is pope.

Divine intervention? Pfft! Selfish preservation at any cost.

They've buried dastardly deeds before (some by edict) many times over.

On April 13, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Secretary of State enraged the worldwide gay community by asserting that studies show a link between homosexuality and paedophilia.

Interesting that the article suggests he enraged gay people.....surely he must have enraged the authors of countless studies that show the vast amount of pedophilia involves adult men with young girls....many within their own community.

Several priests have been accused of having sexual relations with young girls. The male dominated media rarely, if ever, covers it to the same extent as they do the priest/boy abuses.

NAMBLA is an outrage, but pre-teen girl swimsuit "models" with legs wide open is accepted....sometimes in the same circles......
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 13
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The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/15/2010 3:33:41 PM

Pope Benedict XVI once helped get housing for a clergyman suspected of child sex abuse, it emerged Friday, as the pontiff met the head of the Roman Catholic Church in Germany over a growing pedophile priest scandal.

Just hours after Archbishop Robert Zollitsch renewed an apology to victims of predator priests in Germany, Pope Benedict's former diocese of Munich confirmed a report that, as an archbishop in 1980, the pontiff approved housing for the priest, who was to undergo therapy.

The priest -- identified only as

H. -- had been accused of forcing an 11-year-old boy to perform oral sex, according to the Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.

"It was decided in 1980 to give

H. accommodation in a rectory so that he could receive therapy. The archbishop [Pope Benedict] took part in this decision," the German diocese of Munich and Freising said in a statement.

Six years later, the priest was given a suspended prison sentence for child sex offences. The archdiocese said he still works in Bavaria, with no known repeat violations.

The disclosure added to a widening scandal in Germany that had already come close to Pope Benedict's brother Georg Ratzinger, a former choirmaster.

The first revelations emerged in January when a Jesuit school in Berlin admitted systematic sexual abuse of pupils by two priests in the 1970s and 1980s.

Among other boarding schools implicated is one attached to the Domspatzen ( "Cathedral Sparrows"), Regensburg cathedral's 1,000-year-old choir which was run for 30 years by the pope's elder brother.

Ratzinger, 86, said on Tuesday that the alleged sexual abuse in the 1950s and 1960s -- before his time -- was "never discussed."

Abuse scandals across Europe have prompted deep soul-searching among church leaders, not least in Germany, where 19 of the 27 dioceses have been implicated in allegations.

Zollitsch said after meeting with the Pope on Friday: "I want to repeat here in Rome the apology that I made two weeks ago." He also announced the creation of a watchdog to counter abuses.

Pope Benedict meanwhile defended priestly celibacy, calling it "the sign of full devotion" and of an "entire commitment to the Lord."

His comments came a day after Archbishop of Vienna Christoph Schoenborn called for an unflinching examination of the possible roots of child sex abuse by priests, saying it should include the issue of celibacy.

Another of Austria's senior clerics, the Archbishop of Salzburg Alois Kothgasser, said the church must ask itself whether celibacy is still an appropriate way of life for priests.

http://www.timescolonist.com/entertainment/Pope+helped+house+suspected+pedophile/2679777/story.html


This same church would probably have you do 1,000 Hail Mary's for eating meat on Friday, but at the same time do everything in it's power to make excuses for the abuses innocent children suffered under people directly under it's control. Those same victims were re-victimized if they so much as dared to speak out.

Those priests were shuffled around to other countries, and allowed to continue abusing other innocent children entrusted to them by parents who expected that above all their children would be protected by the church they trusted.

My ex-wife's mother (who had three children and a miscarriage) was paid a visit by the parish priest in the Sixties, who told her she was not doing her duty as a good Catholic by having that small a family. That same parish had also come out publically against her husband, who was a union organizer working with teachers.

That woman, who remained a good Catholic, literally threw him out of the house. What a woman !

There's a reason why the RCC is no longer a dominant force here, and that's due to it's abusive history of control. We can see the same thing occuring now in Ireland, where becoming a priest or nun is now almost unthinkable. Like Ireland, in Quebec this used to be seen as a thing to celebrate - but not anymore.



Ireland, a country that used to export its Catholic clergy around the world, is running out of priests at such a rate that their numbers will have dropped by two thirds in the next 20 years, leaving parishes up and down the land vacant.

The decline of Catholic Ireland, for decades the Pope’s favourite bastion of faith in Europe, has been regularly predicted, as the economic successes of the Celtic Tiger brought growing secularisation. But new figures have starkly set out the fate of the Irish priesthood if action is not taken by the Church to reverse the trend.

One-hundred and sixty priests died last year but only nine were ordained. Figures for nuns were even more dramatic, with the deaths of 228 nuns and only two taking final vows for service in religious life.

Based upon these figures The Irish Catholic newspaper predicts that the number of priests will drop from the current 4,752 to about 1,500 by 2028.

The decline in vocations is attributed to the loss of the Church’s authority after a string of sex-abuse scandals. In 1994 the Government collapsed over the mishandling of the case of a paedophile priest Brendan Smyth.

The scandals broke a dam of silence, prompting apologies from both the Church and the Government for the abuse of children and women who passed through religious institutions. An estimated €1 billion (£750 million) are being paid out in compensation to victims.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3441821.ece




The fire sale of Catholic churches in Quebec continues unabated; they are victims of a population that, more than elsewhere in Canada, has turned its back on organized religion.

Fewer than 10 per cent actually attend mass.

This has meant that virtually no parish has been free from the dilemma of what to do with a church it doesn't want to part with, but can no longer afford.

Some churches have found new lives as community centres, libraries and social housing projects; others as condos, factories and even a rock-climbing gym.

And though the provincial government has stepped in to help, a new headache is creeping up. Parishes are facing the prospect of finding no buyers for their churches, not even the municipalities of which they're a part, and so they're being increasingly abandoned, barricaded and demolished.

"There are churches that are not finding takers and it will be necessary to barricade them," said Germain Tremblay of the Montreal-based Assembly of Catholic Bishops of Quebec. "Even in selling them for $1, it's happening that no buyer is interested in the churches for sale. This is new."

Well more than 100 churches have been sold in the last decade, a very conservative estimate considering that in the dioceses of Montreal, Quebec City and Sherbrooke alone, 74 have disappeared in roughly that time frame. However, that's only three of 25 dioceses in Quebec. The exact number sold has never been tabulated.

"It's sad, but it's reality," said Gerald Baril, spokesperson for the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Canada. "People don't care much about spirituality and don't care much about the church."

http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1236909655


It's perhaps easy to understand why, in light of it's past postions.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 14
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History
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/16/2010 1:34:14 PM
When I was about 18, I read a book called "The Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk." (banned from the Catholic appropriate reading list). It was about a Nun who in the 18th century belonged to a convent in Quebec and the horrors and abuses that said nuns went through at the hands of the priests at the monastary next door, and from the Mother Superior herself.

I didn't believe the book at the time now, with all these sexual abuses coming to light, I wonder if her biography had (at least) some truth to it.

What, if anything will be done to stop this??? Why are they above the law?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 17
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/19/2010 2:05:42 PM


I'm sure that if there was a god, he would remove these church leaders. Rightminded people must continue to force this issue - it's highly unlikely that the pope would be charged, but there must be continued accountability on the church. Religion should be removed from the equation - it's about morality, justice, child rape, child rape-protectors and denialists, and the rights of children.


Why the hell haven't we invaded the Vatican? Agents of a foreign government have committed acts of terrorism against American citizens. We invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for less.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 18
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/21/2010 8:27:42 PM
I'm not Catholic, but any large organization....that deals with kids....can have this happen. The church should've handled it differently. But sad to say this is very common all over.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 20
The Catholic Church and sexual abuse
Posted: 4/21/2010 10:05:50 PM


I'm not Catholic, but any large organization....that deals with kids....can have this happen. The church should've handled it differently. But sad to say this is very common all over.


It's certainly true that the molestation could occur with any organization that deals with kids. Just recently a local bus driver was arrested for molesting kids. The guy had passed all the background checks (including a CORI) and there was no reason to suspect that he would do the crime.

The major difference between this case and the scandal in the Church is that the bus company did not go into cover-up mode. The Church has actively protected dozens of child molestors, in several countries, for decades. And it appears to go right up to the top. Vatican City needs to be bombed out of existence for terrorist actions against the US.
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