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 AUTHOR
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 3
AfterlifePage 1 of 2    (1, 2)

you divide one by half and then that answer by half and then that answer and so on. The number can go on to infinity but you will never reach the number 2

Yeah... not too strange. If you just take a half of one, then take a half of that, then just take the half of that, etc etc ... you'll never hit 0.

Could the same or similar mathematical concept as described cause that trip to last forever?

The very basic math concept you allude to wouldn't have anything to do with it. I've thought about the concept of the "afterlife" being your experience at death -- like a dream. And since we know on the inside if we're bad or good for all practical purposes, we could have our own "heaven" or "hell" in a way.

However, say a huge bomb blows up on your head without you knowing it. No chemical will be released to do that... so... if what you are talking about IS true, then not EVERYONE would have that afterlife experience if they were blown to bits in a fraction of a second... or a dysfunctional pineal gland. :) (I could easily see old people missin' out)
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 4
Afterlife
Posted: 7/8/2010 5:12:09 AM
In a nutshell, you divide one by half and then that answer by half and then that answer and so on. The number can go on to infinity but you will never reach the number 2, it would be an infinate calculation.

It's not clear what you mean here, so I'll answer both possibilities and show explicitly that you're wrong either way. In the exact case you stated y = Lim 1/2^x for x -infty, y = 0, not 2. If you mean the infinite sum, y = sum (1/2)^n = 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8+..., for n = {1, infty}, that can be summed explicitly as follows:

Take y = sum (1/2)^n = 1/2 + 1/4 + ... = 1/2 + (1/2) (1/2 + 1/4 + ...)

Since the second term is just 1/2 times the original series we wanted to sum, (i.e., y/2) the sum may be written,

y = 1/2 + y/2 => y - y/2 = y/2 = 1/2

or y = 1. So, the sum of that infinite series is 1, not 2.


Your body clock is your perception of time,

That seems odd. For example:

(1) If I have a resting heart rate of 70 and a friend of mine (who runs a lot) has a resting heart rate of 50, then is my perception of an hour what he perceives to be 84 minutes (or perhaps 42 minutes)?

(2) Now, lets add one more piece of information to that. It is well known that heart rate, brain waves, etc., measured over some range of time will have some average value for a repitition rate, but in fact, no single time interval will have that average value (except perhaps by coincidence). In other words, the intervals between body ticks are completely random fluctuations about some mean value. Is my perception of time random about some mean value? In light of this, answer (1) again.

(3) It is also well known that the only time your brainwaves are exactly locked into regular time intervals, is during a siezure. Ditto, for the ECG patterns from your heart during a heart attack. Does this mean that my perception of time is quite very precise from moment to moment during a siezure or a heart attack?


Your brain/body/self must perform some calculation or measurement of time to be able to guage time.

Actually that is not the case. A prevailing theory of how your brain distinguishes between past and present by fading of memory. The present is what you perceive with the greatest amount of detail, while the past is what your brain perceives with less and less detail as time passes. I know precisely what I'm doing right now. I can tell you pretty accurately what I did yesterday, but a lot of the details will be fuzzy. I can tell you what I did the day before, but the details will be even fuzzier.

After a while, I won't be able to tell you on what day I did something I remember doing, but I can narrow it down to maybe a week, so forth and so on. If I remembered everything with the same detail as I can about what I'm doing now, I would have no notion of time passing. Yesterday would seem just as recent as five seconds ago. My brain does not need to calculate anything. All that has to happen is that the interconnections between neurons that are responsible for stored memories has to become weaker as time passes.

But, just for grins, suppose my brain has to perform that calculation. My brain just performed it in a time that was quite a bit shorter than eternity.

When you die your body dies, it has been said that the pineal gland may excrete a large dose of powerful triptamine once the body has been declared as dead by the brain.

Since I am unaware of that being said and I don't feel like hunting down who said it, for the moment, I'll assume that it's true. However, it is also well known that when you die, you generally evacuate your bowels, so does the afterlife also have something to do with sh!t? If so, you might not want to flush anymore lest your soul end up in the sewer and get destroyed a little more every day at the sewage treatment plant.

You would perceive a life in a dream that would last an eternity.

Or at least until the orderly emptied your bedpan. I'm not sure how any of what you said ties into any sort of afterlife. No matter what you perceive as you're fading away, you fade away in a finite time and then for a real eternity, there is nothing.
 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 5
Afterlife
Posted: 7/11/2010 12:46:09 PM
If you divide 1 in half you're headed to zero, not 2.

The afterlife is an idea not a reality. Life contains reality in that unless you are alive you don't exist. Your dead body stays a while after. That's all.

Zeno's paradoxes might interest you. But as you read them keep in mind that before you can get from one word of it to the next your eyes have to first travel half the distance between them, and then half again the remaining, and so on, making it impossible for you to read past that first word. I think it still works out because by reading the first word enough times your brain catches on and supposes the intended meaning, just to escape the boredom.
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 6
Afterlife
Posted: 7/15/2010 9:16:26 AM

The afterlife is an idea not a reality.


You speak in absolutes as if the inability to prove something does/doesn't exist somehow actually equates to it doesn't......interesting......
 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 8
Afterlife
Posted: 7/16/2010 10:45:58 AM
To say anything exists is merely to voice a thought. People are critters of awareness, and as such every part of our perception belongs to our living mind. For daily use it is handy as can be to operate with a model of existence and to treat that model as if it represents an absolute truth, but when push comes to shove our language is not capable of being more than words. People look, see and yammer. We have eyes and brains and tongues. It is a mistake to forget that all we will ever know must fall within the knowledge we create, which is merely the noise of a human mind. We can come up with concepts to designate ourselves as somehow distinct from an environment. We can imagine a universe in which we are discretely placed but that would exist whether we were here or not. When we imagine that we are just having an idea. And then people try to use their ideas to prove there is something more than their ideas. To do that they claim as proof of something being beyond their ideas, the limits of their ideas to prove it is there. I tell you, as idiotic as that sounds, and it is, you have to give people credit for trying so hard.

Life is what you are doing right now. A hundred years ago, before you lived, is what again there will be instead of you, after you're done living. In terms of your life in particular it is something that starts and ends, happening only while it does. This is obvious. It is also obvious why people like thinking of immortality. One of the things about being alive is that you don't want it to end. I am not sure why, but that is how it is for most people. To avoid having to think about life ending, people pretend it never will. They like to imagine their personality living on, after their body dies. So great is their wish to believe and so little do they care about truth, it is real easy to believe the afterlife to be true. I am all in favor of anyone who wants to, doing just that. It's wise to use your mind in ways that promote the likelihood of having a nice day.

In terms of using ideas to prove that ideas are not ideas, that's an idea, but I don't see where the fun of it is, not if the women aren't topless while it is being argued.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Afterlife
Posted: 7/16/2010 1:43:22 PM

You speak in absolutes as if the inability to prove something does/doesn't exist somehow actually equates to it doesn't......interesting......

I feel like we're about to go down the invisible pink unicorns route.

Open your mind!!!111eleventy11
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 10
Afterlife
Posted: 7/16/2010 7:31:28 PM

I feel like we're about to go down the invisible pink unicorns route.

Open your mind!!!


Nope....I'm not contributing to that but do try to keep in mind that this is not just the Science forum, it is also a forum to discuss philosophy. Philosophy is not held to the same standard that science is, nor should it be. They are unique disciplines but have been forever linked to each other, as it should be.

Philosophers think and express their thoughts...scientists test hypothesis, sometimes those of philosophers. The two are not in competition with each other except in the minds of some...

Once upon a time, it was unheard of that the atom could be split....until science proved it could.......someone didn't accept that the atom couldn't be split...they had the idea/thought that it was possible and set out to find out if it could or not. If nobody believed the atom could be split, would anyone have bothered to try?

Science does seem to test our limits of knowledge on a regular basis, seeking to understand and know tomorrow what we don't understand or know today. I love science! Most decent scientists don't have the arrogance of mind to think they know everything there is to know about everything. I'm sure some of them even believe in a God.....and an afterlife......
 123581321
Joined: 6/15/2010
Msg: 12
Afterlife
Posted: 7/22/2010 3:12:32 PM
The work of Rick Strassman, M.D. In his book D.M.T, The Spirit Molecule he talks about his clinical trials on patients who received varying doses of DMT.

http://www.rickstrassman.com/

http://www.thespiritmolecule.com/

video Susan Blumenthal: DMT Volunteer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-iYFPRYwAE
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 14
Afterlife
Posted: 9/14/2010 5:12:52 PM
DavidByrne said it best:

Everyone is trying to get to the bar.
The name of the bar, the bar is called Heaven.
The band in Heaven they play my favorite song.
They play it one more time, they play it all night long.

Oh heaven, heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens.

There is a party, everyone is there.
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time.
When this partys over it will start again.
It will not be any different, it will be exactly the same.

Heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens.

When this kiss is over it will start again.
It will not be any different, it will be exactly
the same.
It's hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, could be this much fun.

Oh, heaven, heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens.



IMO
Heaven is the moment in time when you brain dumps the endorphins and you feel nothing but bliss and that memory is the last memory you will have and because you never wake up, that moment is forever.




That wouldn't work. If the brain shuts down in a finite amount of externally-measured time, there's no way that it can give you an infinite amount of subjective experience.

Actually that could be very possible.

Waking Life: Chapter 5 - Death and Reality
http://strivinglife.com/words/post/Waking-Life-Chapter-5---Death-and-Reality.aspx

(A couple are in bed talking -- Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke)

I keep thinking about something you said.

Something I said?

Yeah. About how you often feel like you're observing your life from the perspective of an old woman about to die. You remember that?

Yeah. I still feel that way sometimes. Like I'm looking back on my life. Like my waking life is her memories.

Exactly. I heard that Tim Leary said as he was dying that he was looking forward to the moment when his body was dead but his brain was still alive. You know they say that there's still six to twelve minutes of brain activity after everything else is shutdown. And a second of dream consciousness, right, well, that's infinitely longer than a waking second. You know what I'm saying?

Oh, yeah, definitely. For example, I wake up and it is 10:12, and then I go back to sleep and I have those long, intricate, beautiful dreams that seem to last for hours, and then I wake up and it's ... 10:13.

Yeah, exactly. So then six to twelve minutes of brain activity, I mean, that could be your whole life. I mean, you are that woman looking back over everything.


Okay, so what if I am? Then what would you be in all that?

Whatever I am right now. I mean, yeah, maybe I only exist in your mind. I'm still just as real as anything else.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 16
Afterlife
Posted: 9/14/2010 6:22:18 PM
^^^^

1. You would perceive a life in a dream that would last an eternity.

IMO
The only way you could perceive a dream to last an eternity would be if you never woke up from that dream, but not because the dream would go on forever in your mind but because if you died you would not be aware of the ending so in your brain it went on forever.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 19
view profile
History
Afterlife
Posted: 9/17/2010 5:53:48 PM

Oh heaven, heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens.


That's what the fat old Polish nuns told us in first grade. They said that in heaven we would spend eternity gazing at God. That's it. Just gazing at God for eternity.

Do you realize how utterly awful that sounds like to a first grader?
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Afterlife
Posted: 10/9/2010 5:06:38 PM

Could the afterlife be the result of a trip?
Could this life also be the result of a trip?

There was an episode of Red Dwarf when it turned out that their whole existence was just 5 years in a virtual-reality game.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 23
Afterlife
Posted: 10/10/2010 5:43:26 AM

Has anyone else observed time slowing down?


Similar experience when i hit i fire truck on a motorbike aged 12.............similar experience as i tried walking on the resultant mashed up leg that was yet to register pain...............also when racing a mate in cars , the more adreniline fuelled moments slow down...you almost can recall every milisecond..............
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Afterlife
Posted: 10/10/2010 7:09:58 AM
Has anyone else observed time slowing down?

Did you ever read "Catch 22"?
 cenomeno
Joined: 4/21/2010
Msg: 26
Afterlife
Posted: 10/13/2010 10:51:05 PM
Unbelievable all this crap people come up with.
Since we know everything is generated in the brain, and brain is not made of non decaying metal and runs on an infinite battery ..... What after life do you speak of ?

Once the meat rots and disappears six feet under, how do you expect to experience any kind of journey ?! A non existent brain will continue the trip ?



 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 27
Afterlife
Posted: 10/15/2010 7:29:40 AM

Has anyone else observed time slowing down?


How can a non-existing entity be slowing down?



Anyway, time is one of the perceptions that are heavily distorted in dreams.


Or perhaps it is the other way around. It's the everyday perceptions of the awakened person that distorts time/reality - for time is illusory, and dream speak of that truth.



It's a good question to ask, as dreams distort real time, perhaps comparative to death and afterlife?


Dreams do not distort "real time" - for if you dream, and distortion happens, someone who's not dreaming would notice/know.

What's comparative to death and afterlife? And how can you know when you know nothing about death or afterlife? How can you draw a comparison between something you know, and something you know nothing about?
 kathleen46
Joined: 11/18/2009
Msg: 29
Afterlife
Posted: 10/26/2010 8:03:35 PM
Yes I have notice and all my friends, family,ect. have also noticeing time is going by faster and .The days,nights,weeks,evenings.Even my friends kids that are 10 and under are thinking and feeling it.Very strange.I think the world is spinning faster as the months go by.Also do u believe about what the sciences are saying about the plants lineing up 2011?
 FoshFish
Joined: 4/30/2010
Msg: 31
Afterlife
Posted: 10/26/2010 9:51:25 PM
? What do we mean that time is slowing up or speeding down?
Compared to what or when?

If time is going faster than twenty years ago, then there is something we measure time with, to see if it's going faster or slower. Like a cop measures speed with a radar gun, the time measurer's measure time with... what??

Speed is a comparative event, but is time a comparative event? What is the basic physical constant against which we measure time?

Since speed is a rate of progression, which is measured against time, like how many miles and hour or how many dollars a day, what is the denominator in measuring time? Time itself?? Then it cannot be measured if it slows or speeds up. Time per time is 1, no matter how fast or slow time goes.

If it's not 1 but, say, 3, as of today compared to yesterday, then our denominator is not the same as the numerator, yet they are both time values. This necessitates that there are two clocks (at least) in Universal time, not in man-made clocks, which compete against each other and go at different rates in different times in history.

Quite a concept. I can't say it's impossible. I just find it queer. However, until proven to be wrong, it's a theory that is at least possibly describing reality.
 lateā„¢
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 32
Afterlife
Posted: 10/26/2010 11:12:01 PM

Could the afterlife be the result of a trip?

...or a misstep, ..an oversight, ... general doziness.

Afterlife threads have an afterlife, and they often reincarnate...

Want proof?

Use the forum search feature...

nyuk nyuk nyuk
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