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 daneil912
Joined: 3/8/2009
Msg: 2
cutting apron stringsPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
well ill tell you my family story....my mother had 6 kids 3 boys 3 girls....
the girls never got help from her. the boys on the other hand had houses, cars and bail money more than a few times each. i think my mother did it out of some kind of guilt....but she didnt feel that same guilt towards her daughters,
 lovebeingmom
Joined: 10/29/2007
Msg: 7
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/4/2010 10:25:25 PM
I think like most people say it depends on the situation of both the kids and the parents.
Even if i was wealthy ( d@mn im not) my kids would somehow be taught value of money work etc. However that doesnt mean for example that Id saddle them with student loans, providing I could afford to pay for their college tuition. Or help them out with a down payment ro such for a house., shoot if i had the money I would buy them one. however not if the helping is born of pure laziness.

I know people who freloaded where even though they cant afford to help, could help in other non monetary ways that would either be a great help, or save the people theyre living with some money.

there is nothing wrong with helping and maybe going the extra mile to help a child. after all we might need help as we as parents age.

i think the key is if you start to resent it. a huge sign that something is wrong.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 12
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/5/2010 5:52:59 AM
Teaching people how to be responsible is a part of parenting. When anyone learns anything, they make a lot of mistakes in the beginning. So if you just throw them in at the deep end when it comes to looking after themselves, they are bound to make mistakes, and then they are going to not look after themselves properly, which will cause a lot of them to be homeless, or in jail, or having to go back home. But equally well, if they have nothing to lose by being irresponsible, then they won't have any incentive to learn.

So if you want people to learn to be responsible, you have to start off giving them a few things to be responsible for, which will cause them some personal difficulty when they initially make mistakes, but not enough that they can seriously threaten their existence. Then they'll make a lot of mistakes, which will cause them SOME personal difficulty. The difficulty here is that parents MUST be prepared to let the children suffer over those things, or they won't learn. If they are to learn to clean their own messes up, they must be given the opportunity, no matter that it might take them days to get over themselves and sort the issue out. But then they will learn, because it is in their incentive to do so. Then once they've learned to do a few things for themselves, you give them a few more, which will cause them a bit more personal difficulty than before, but not ones that seriously threaten their existence, and let them make just as many mistakes, or even more, than they made before. You keep repeating the process. In the end, they have learned to be so responsible that they are basically independent.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 20
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/5/2010 2:03:54 PM
First and foremost, each situation is only the business of the members of that family, and it isn't for ignorant strangers to say anything about. As has been said, there are many possible different circumstances to consider.
Next, it is a relatively new historic thing for all eighteen year olds to be considered as adults who should find completely separate living quarters. Sadly, we may very well be entering a new time, wherein that dream is dead. We are now here in America, in direct competition with other country's labor forces, who's cost of living is well below ours. One of the symptoms of this, shows up here in the D.C. area, where some neighborhoods are in a panic to try to create new laws to prevent multiple families from moving in together, owing to the falling wages, and yet still rising rental and purchase costs of housing. They will not likely succeed, because housing costs are simply too high for single families to afford.
Holding onto the rather unrealistic notion that an 18 year old CAN afford to take over their entire economic lives, should have ended when (during the eighties) it became clear that it is now impossible for someone with only a high school education to find employment that pays enough to HAVE a place to live. the cost of health insurance is STILL increasing, in spite of (or even because of) the new health care legislation.
These economic changes have been happening so fast, that many people of our generation are not even aware that what THEY faced growing up isn't half the difficulty people face today. When I was young, transitioning to buying a house was possible on wages less than half of the average for a given area. That hasn't been true since about 1978. Anyone who OWNED a home by that time, is still unable to understand the chasm that has opened in front of young people today, because selling one home to buy another continues to be relatively easy.
Before you condemn someone, you really need to have COMPLETE information on everything they face.
 ~rain~
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 22
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/5/2010 2:35:42 PM
I have a 15 year old daughter, she knows she gets nothing for free!!

She has her chores around the house in leu of her cell phone being paid for, she has a part time job that is hers for spending money. I provide her necessities of life while under my roof. I will never charge her rent, she does her share.
When she goes to university then I will help her out with that but she will also pay her share. After that she is on her own!! PERIOD!!
I will never bi*ch about handing her over money and bailing her out because I refuse to do it. She is an intelligent, independent, well rounded young woman and she didnt get that way from being spoiled rotten.

Her older sister has moved out and bought her own house and is doing quite well without asking me for a dime. I am very proud of both my girls.

Dont enable your children and then bi*ch about it!! (at any age)
You have no one to blame but yourself for what becomes of it!!!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 28
cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/5/2010 5:04:11 PM
Hey, times are tough right now and I don't think anyone can sit on a marble throne, or in a rose-pink Cadillac, and set down "rules" about intergenerational or sibling-to-sibling assistance offered-so much depends on the individual circumstances, whether there could be a dire outcome, and there's a great deal to be said for 'give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, TEACH him to fish..."
But if helping out the adult kids is pinching Mom in important matters, then I think she probably needs to call a meeting of the minds and make it abundantly clear that her name is MOM-not "Uncle Sam"...But I do not think that this is a matter that someone dating the parent in question needs to be butting into. If you find yourself continually biting your tongue to keep from speaking up about what is not your business at this point, maybe you need to consider that there is a fundamental conflict in parenting philosophy between the 2 of you, and worry more about THAT overall issue.
Cindy O
 Luri
Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 30
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/5/2010 7:45:59 PM
I agree very much with Igor, too. There are many socio-economic recipes that make sense depending on geography, local economics, family history, etc. The huge "shoulds" don't come from experience and a wide range of human diversity, but from adages which made sense to whoever coined the supposed wisdom.

When people complain about family matters, I often wonder if there is a sense of worry. i wonder if it is more important to be 'right' or to be supportive of a friend.

Even the amount of worry a parent experiences has much to do with HOW they bonded with their child early in that child's life. Our current predominant cultural expectations were developed during a time when jobs were plentiful, and all anyone had to do was follow directions, not be creative, or find ones way. It just isn't there anymore, and the last few decades-worth of education has not taught to the changes, only "to the test." Today we try to keep adolescents from making mistakes instead of trusting that they will make mistakes and that they have brains to help them learn to not make those mistakes again. But they get no practice in their teens, anymore, not real life practice.

And lots of parents know that....and...that can also create guilt, a helpless guilt that they didn't go against, or couldn't go against, the status quo to prepare their children for today's world. Who but entrepreneurs- who often absorb their children into their businesses indefinitely- know how to?

In reality, family money used to be family money. A large percentage of businesses were successful because of fosterage and interdependence. It's how many of our country's middle classes were able to pull together and get an edge.

My children have been in various stages of dependent and independent since the first turned 15 as many years ago. The youngest is 16 and in college, now. He'll likely be home the longest. But...he's also the one who takes care of my parents' yard, errands, etc. Im wondering if there will be a garage apartment for him and an accessory apartment on the back of my house for my parents!!! Woot!!
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 32
cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/6/2010 6:53:55 AM
There is no hard and fast rule here.

Each family functions differently.

Yes 18 is the age of majority, however there are circumstances where parents may assist past that point.

Are they mentally disabled?
Are they physically disabled?
Are they in school?

Myself, I have a 19.5 year old still living at home with me, unemployed and I am footing the bill. Why? He has just had shoulder surgery (after he completed grade 13), and cannot lift anything with his arm. He has ambitions to enter into the Canadian armed forces when he is able to do so, however that requires a long healing process.

As a parent does that make me irresponsible? I don't think so.

Yet there are parents who continue on passing the 46 year old a couple bucks to buy his date ice cream. (ha ha ...that's too funny!)

We are all different and come with different values.
 Wise_Monk
Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 33
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/6/2010 8:38:54 AM
I don't believe in there being an age where obligation suddenly ends, it depends on the circumstances just as it's been illustrated throughout this thread. Generally speaking however, able-bodied men and women should be taking care of themselves. When they need help and the parents are able, I see no problem there, but it shouldn't be a situation where the son or daughter is just being lazy and not trying, that's different.

There was a time as an adult where I lost everything financially (actually, I lost it several times due to job losses before becoming stable). I kept getting laid-off, one time it was 5 jobs in a row and twice from the same job in the same year. I was a lucky man :)

After that, I couldn't score a job despite all my daily efforts, interviews, my qualifications. It didn't seem to matter, I just couldn't get a 'yes' even from minimum wage positions. Everyone kept shutting the door. Eventually my savings were tapped out. At that point, hard times began with many gruesome details. I was already barely eating, if it weren't for my Father and his wife helping me on different occasions I would've been totally homeless during that time.

Thankfully, over time, things changed. I went on a streak of having some really, really good paying jobs, I put away a ton of money, and then went into business for myself which also went very well. Many years later my Father and his wife (both of which had high-paying jobs for about 30 years), eventually lost it all and fell on hard times themselves, and now I was in a position to help them and I did so happily. Had they turned their backs on me when I was down however, I may not have helped them at all. Just keep in mind that if your son or daughter is doing their best (emphasis on "doing their best") and struggling, it may not be a good idea to just write them off. You never know what your own situation might be someday and you may wind up needing help from them.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 34
cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/6/2010 8:53:12 AM
All relative at what "kind of " help you are giving your children. Paying for their education is just something we, as parents should "try" to do. And I can tell ya first hand,it's not so easy, school is not cheap!!! But, to lend a hand, as in, being a bank,,,I don't condone.

Somewhere along the line our children must understand the words responsibility and accountability,,,,which includes PAYING for things outta your own pocket. Rarely, in our world are there true "emergencies" when it comes to money. These "emergencies" usually only come up when the bills come in for the CREDIT that someone has used. If we teach our children about money, how to handle it,,,and spend only what you have,,,,"borrowing" from mommy and daddy will rarely happen.

Our economy is in the shape it's in because of at least one reason. People(which includes our children) have this funny idea that they can spend money they don't have. If ya can't pay for it,,,,,you probably really don't NEED it,,,do ya??????
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 41
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/7/2010 12:43:18 PM

Do you think this is done out of guilt, obligation? At what age(child)should parents stop with the assistance?????

Um, it's probably done because they're her parents... And that's what parents do: they take care of their kids.

It's a rare thing to find a set of parents that will decide there's some arbitrary age at which they cut their kids off and would let them live in the streets.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 43
cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/7/2010 5:24:35 PM

There are other factors, but most 18 year olds flat out aren't ready to be on their own in this complex world. I'm no parent but I have to think that as one, if you want little Johnny on his own by 18, you better start making him independent early on


Ummmm,,,,you just pointed out one of the failures of today's world. As parent(along with a few others), that is OUR main job as they grow. You don't suddenly flick a switch when they are 18 and "poof" it's done. It's suppose to start when they are young,,,like before 2-3 years of age. I did say START.

Ask many of the professionals, and most of the life skills, work ethics, problem solving,questioning,etc, is/SHOULD be installed in a child before 10 years of age. At that time they have already SPONGED enough information into their little minds that to change what they have learnt from that point forward takes quite the effort.

Example,,,,some children learn fairly early that live is FAIR, by the way we hand out ribbons for "participation".Anybody wanna break the news to those ones when they become "adults"???? Children should learn the difference between losing and winning(and what it takes to ACCOMPLISH) long before they get outta grade school.They should see FAIL when they actually fail something. That means they should see their actual "grades" early on, and learn how to deal with a bad "grade",,,,not hear that they are doing "satisfactory" or "okay". Don't just give em a pat on the back and tell em it's "okay Johnny". Children should be learning that they don't get EVERYTHING they WANT. They may not even get everything they NEED,,,,,will they????? (insert cel phones for grade schoolers here,,,,,are ya really serious??????)

Yeah,,,I hear ya on that living in today's world is tougher in some aspects. One,, we all go wayyyyyyy toooooo fast. But with that,we all expect things too fast,,,including those out there looking for their first jobs. Quit teaching your children that your job must EQUATE to a high earning job. It's a failure on your part as a parent if you do so. Hell, it's a failure on our society to do it. Look at a few comments made here about some low paying jobs. They are jobs,,,,honest ones,,,,and everyone must start somewhere. And with those low paying jobs,,,,children will learn even a few more things,,,,including, maybe,,,they don't wanna flip burgers all their lives.

We have what we have right now, because of how we have been teaching and raising our children the last 20-25 years. We have lost some of the things that our parents were able to teach us. Any guesses why??????? I'll tell ya one reason. We are trying to be too "nice" to our children as they grow. Ummmmm,,,again,,,who's gonna break the news to them??????
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 46
cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/7/2010 6:34:21 PM

Some "kids" help their parents out. Out of guilt or what? When is it time for an adult to be an adult? This is such a gray issue. Parents helping kids, kids helping parents.

Everybody seemed to ignore this comment but I think it's an interesting one to consider in this discussion. Whenever there's a thread about someone taking care of their parent, their actions are deemed admirable yet when a parent foots the bill for their adult kid, both the kid and the parents get criticized. Why is support in one direction somehow better than the other?
 Luri
Joined: 5/26/2009
Msg: 48
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cutting apron strings
Posted: 9/9/2010 1:45:33 AM
I'm surprised to see a comment that kids should learn/know that life is FAIR??? Since when? And if a kid here got a job at age 18 at a fast food joint, the problem would not be that there would be no luxuries, but there would be not enough money for basic rent (based on a shared apartment) and heat, much less food. And that sort of lesson might work for some people, but for others would do just the opposite.

I like to toss these thoughts out there:

1) When jobs were more readily available and higher education not expected of so many, the age of majority was 21. And yet, only one example-there are plenty if we think a bit about it ....a 13 year old could ride a train alone....Amtrak is now age 16? So, between 16 and 18, now, they are supposed to gain experience we used to have access to from age 13-21? Realistic?

2) The period of adolescence is roughly ages 13-19... and final growth stages, physically, in young men is age 26.

3) Something else may also have happened that had much to do with common (ill-advised) parenting practices early in life that were designed to create independence actually contribute to stress and inability to cope in young adulthood (Commons P. and Miller M. 1998 Harvard). Did our indiscriminate adherence to practices that enhanced production during an industrial revolution that no longer exists, catch up with us?

I think a lot of how people feel about this is cultural...extended families are the rule in my family, not the exception.
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