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 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
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I didn't know people younger than 60 would get shingles, until I got it two years ago. It is really painful. I am concerned that Shingles seems to be on the rise. A year before I got it my youngest brother got shingles, too.
I saw this article on Shingles and thought I would pass the information on:

"The incidence of adult shingles has increased by 90 percent from 1998 to 2003, following the release of the chickenpox vaccine for mass use. Shingles results in three times as many deaths and five times as many hospitalizations as chickenpox, and accounts for 75 percent of all medical costs associated with the varicella zoster virus.

Even children are beginning to come down with shingles, as evidenced by school nurse reports since 2000.

Prior to chickenpox vaccination, shingles was seen only in adults.

All evidence points to the fact that we have traded a relatively mild illness (chickenpox), which does NOT involve complications for 99.9 percent of healthy children, for a more serious illness in our elderly (shingles) that has the potential for compromising the health of an entire population.

A cost-benefit analysis of the chickenpox vaccination program finds Chickenpox vaccine would have to be universally used for at least 50 years to demonstrate a cost benefit, due to the substantial additional medical cost of a shingles epidemic. This is not worth it, when chickenpox disease presented minimal risk to society in the first place.

The CDC's answer to a potential shingles epidemic, when presented with these findings, is another vaccine—of course.

Merck – the pharmaceutical giant that makes the chickenpox vaccine - rides in on their white horse with the very answer the CDC was hoping for: A shingles vaccine! Yes, shingles vaccine was developed by the same manufacturer who markets and is the sole source of chickenpox vaccine in America.

What an incredible profit-making scheme – the same drug company that profits from mass, mandatory use of the chicken pox vaccine also profits from sales of a shingles vaccine in a market created by the chickenpox vaccine!

Merck "to the Rescue"

The FDA approved Merck's shingles vaccine (Zostavax) for use in people age 60 and older in May of 2006. So they have come out with a vaccine (shingles) to reverse the damages to your health caused by their earlier vaccine (chickenpox).

It is very much like the polypharmacy used to "treat" chronic disease. You get a drug to supposedly make you better, but it causes adverse side effects, so you are given another drug to treat those side effects. Then, THAT drug creates more problems, and pretty soon, no one can tell what's causing what, and down the drain of poor health you go.

Meanwhile, you are taking a long list of drugs, and the only people truly benefiting are the pharmaceutical companies who make money each step of the way.

In the case of varicella vaccines, they are profiting from the cause of an epidemic, as well as the supposed cure..."

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

One of my sons got the chickenpox vaccine years ago, and the other cannot be vaccinated because of issues with his immunity. And so I am worried about all of us now... The vaccine is making us vaccine-dependent, and not everyone can afford the vaccinations, or can tolerate them. And I always wonder about where they are being produced (many medicines and vaccines are made in China, where controls aren't as strict.) After seeing so many products being recalled, its difficult to trust something that gets injected right into us.

I think that requiring healthy people to be injected with weakened germs of almost every contagious disease on the planet can be taken too far... particularly if there are profits to be made. We have to be careful and informed consumers of this kind of "medical care."

Imagine how lucrative an idea it is for a drug Company to have found a way to get healthy people to have to use their product to stay healthy?
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
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Posted: 11/3/2010 10:01:00 AM
Would you please cite your source for the assertion that the incidence of shingles in adults has risen 90%?
 shoulderlegs
Joined: 4/14/2005
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Posted: 11/4/2010 9:25:09 PM
A friend of mine, who is in her 80s(She won't tell me exactly!) developed shingles about 2 months ago, and she STILL hasn't recovered from them!
About 28 years ago, I was driving to my sister's house at the coast. While on the way, I noticed that some "zits" had started popping up on my right temple. I didn't really think much of it, but they kept getting worse. By the time I got to my sister's, the "zits" were really hurting, so when I took a shower, I took a corral sponge, and scrubbed them until they bled.... didn't help(DUH!). After a few days, and in a LOT of pain, I left to see my other sister, and once I got there, I was basically bed-ridden for a few days... all because of some "zits". I finally was in such agony that I had to go to the doctor. THAT'S when I was told that it was NOT "zits", but SHINGLES? "Shingles? What's THAT?"! I had never heard of them. The doctor gave me some Domeboro astringent packets to apply to the shingles, and a prescription for codeine. I couldn't eat anything, and after a few days of eating nothing and taking the codeine, I started throwing up yellow liquid.
MAN... THE FUN I HAD IN MY 20s!!!!
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 4
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Posted: 11/5/2010 11:42:36 AM
"Research published in the International Journal of Toxicology, 24(4):205-213, Universal Varicella Vaccination: Efficacy Trends and Effect on Herpes Zoster. Also, Vaccine, 23(25):3349-3355, Cost-benefit analysis of universal varicella vaccination in the U.S. taking into account the closely related herpes zoster epidemiology."


Here is part of the article that my first article was based on, from "The Medical News":

Chicken pox vaccine associated with shingles epidemic
1. September 2005 17:52
New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government's 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.

Goldman's research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

Dr. Goldman's findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Another recent peer-reviewed article authored by Dr. Goldman and published in Vaccine presents a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

Source:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx

Here is more of the article I quoted from originally:

"...the mechanism keeping shingles largely at bay has been drastically reduced, if not eliminated because older children and adults are no longer coming into contact with younger children experiencing chickenpox and there is less and less natural "boosting" of immunity occurring in our population.

The natural "herd" immunity to chickenpox among Americans is being lost and we are becoming vaccine dependent. Plus a shingles epidemic is taking shape.

Research done by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. who served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project in Los Angeles County with funding from the CDC, revealed higher rates of shingles in Americans since the government's 1995 recommendation that all children receive chickenpox vaccine.

According to an article describing his work:

"Dr. Goldman's findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease.

Goldman was so concerned about an epidemic of shingles that he has co-written a book on the matter, entitled "The Chickenpox Vaccine: A New Epidemic of Disease and Corruption."

Dr. Goldman isn't the only one who is concerned about a potential shingles epidemic.

A team at Britain's Public Health Laboratory Service (PHLS) found that adults living with children enjoy higher levels of protection from shingles. They stated that, although chickenpox can be life threatening for the immune compromised, thousands of elderly people could also die from the complications of shingles. PHLS called for a re-evaluation of the policy of mass chickenpox vaccination in the U.S., as well as other countries implementing this practice.

For decades, shingles was thought to increase with age as older individuals' immune systems weakened. However, research suggests this phenomenon is more a result of the fact that older people receive fewer natural boosts to immunity as their contacts with young children decline.

In fact, the effectiveness of the chickenpox vaccine itself depends on natural boosting, so as chickenpox disease rates decline, so will the effectiveness of the vaccine."

Source:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx

********************************************************************************

I'm not posting this to publish scientific research for other's to replicate, or to critique...I am just someone who is noticing more shingles happening among people I know personally and I was concerned to read that there are other people noticing this, too.

I am not someone who wants to spread fear, but look for solutions. If one solution creates new problems, then we have to keep revising our approach to problems like contagious diseases.

Vaccinations can cause complications, and so maybe we need to revise our approach of simply vaccinating every single person because there are some good reasons not to vaccinate some people, in addition, vaccinating everyone might change the balance in nature of how human immunity deals with contagion.

We have seen this happen already with the over-use of antibiotics in treating people and in raising food animals. For different reasons, we have to be careful how often we use treatments to replace the goal of maintaining health and natural immunity in the first place.

For the future, we can't just ignore the principles of living a healthy lifestyle, just because we have these tools in our toolbox to deal with the problems temporarily.

If we live as if what we eat, how we exercise and how we live doesn't matter at all, except for the goals of convenience and cost savings, then we might create these large-scale secondary problems like diabetes, auto-immune diseases, and antibiotic resistance. Even our best science can't prevent an unhealthy lifestyle from causing serious problems, and if we bring out the big guns for smaller diseases, we end up diluting the efficacy of the treatments for the more serious diseases.

I am concerned that people aren't getting the information they need to make informed choices about these treatments.

Even Doctors themselves don't have to think about the long-term implications of the treatments they prescribe for groups of unrelated people. Understandably, Doctors often only think about the individual patient's immediate issues, without considering that when we treat everyone in a population on such a large scale, we can change the entire dynamic that the individual deals with in the social world.

A better solution might be to revise our approach so that we figure out who will benefit the most from certain vaccinations, and who has the potential to be harmed by them.

I think we will also have to limit how many diseases we vaccinate for eventually, and so it would be good to prioritize the vaccinations so that we treat the diseases with vaccination that are most dangerous and difficult to treat in other ways.

Children don't have a voice in their vaccination schedule. Somebody has to speak up for them. Perhaps as adults they would make the informed decision to not vaccinate for certain diseases they are unlikely to get because of known side effects and injuries possible because of their genetic makeup.

Parent's can be easily manipulated by using guilt. Its scary to think that maybe the reason drug companies are recommending most vaccinations be given by age 2 is that its easiest to get them in the doctor's office then, and not because that is the optimal time for their bodies to get exposed to contagious diseases.

Maybe we can change the goal from eradication of a disease because with some diseases this isn't practical or feasible.

If a disease isn't very dangerous or fatal, who is going to raise the money to vaccinate the rest of the world that doesn't have organized health care? The goal could change to figuring out the best time to vaccinate for that child. This might be over age 5 when the human immune system is better developed and better able to maintain the immunity for a longer period of time. The additional goal might be to figure out in advance which children and which adults would react poorly to the immunization, causing more harm than the disease that the immunization was designed to prevent.

Another reason to vaccinate very young babies and infants is because they can't talk and describe their symptoms or indicate the severety of their symptoms. Any adverse reactions to vaccinations, like brain swelling can be attributed to "colic" or if they die, to "SIDS."

Vomiting is a common event in an infant. But vomiting is also a sign of serious illness in an older child or adult, including an indication of seizures. So if you are going to push people to vaccinate their children, it would make more sense for them to push to vaccinate babies, who tend to vomit a lot anyway, and then you can dismiss the symptoms and tell the new parents they are "over reacting."

I know this happens, because all of this happened to me, when I vaccinated my child who had a severe reaction to a vaccination.

But the main reason I am posting this is that I had observed an increase in shingles myself, which apparently was predicted by this researcher. It would be unfortunate for more people to get shingles so that fewer people would get chicken pox, when chicken pox doesn't have as many long term side effects and a lower death rate, and is much less painful. The permanent nerve damage from shingles can cause pain so severe and unremitting that there is a high rate of suicide amongst these patients.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 5
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Posted: 11/6/2010 12:30:04 AM
Well, I've also found a paper from Japan that said that it seemed that adults who had had chickenpox as a child had fewer incidents of shingles when they were exposed to children with chickenpox. Interesting. So, if they eliminate chickenpox, in 50 years there will be no more shingles. Maybe. I have a friend who spent about 30 years doing research on herpes viruses. I'll have to remember to ask him what he knows about this next time I see him.

I'm surprised they are using the terms H. varicella and H. zoster as if they were two different viruses. They are not. They are the same virus. The two different names were given before it was discovered it was the same virus.

I have been told by my doctor that if you get shingles, it's rare to get it again. I got a very small, very mild outbreak a few years ago and consider myself lucky. I had two friends who got severe, painful outbreaks that lasted for six weeks. As some have noted, some people have pain for long periods.

Shingles is most common in people over the age of 50 and, according to the Mayo Clinic, at least half the population experiences an outbreak by age 85.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
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Posted: 11/7/2010 9:33:21 PM
I thought I would put here what helped me during my experience with shingles.

The form of shingles I had appeared first in my eye. This is a serious issue because it can permanently hurt your vision. It felt like I had something like glass or a splinter in my eye, and so I ended up in the ER. Then it spread over the right side of my face and head. It lasted 5 weeks, and I thought it was going to drive me crazy.

It helped to run very hot water on my head in the shower. I also used a bean bag at night that you can get at a pharmacy like Walgreen's that you heat in the microwave and put it over the area where the shingles were.

I had to use a lot of painkillers, and normally I don't use them for anything, even very bad headaches. But nothing really got rid of the pain. I did notice that distraction helped, and so I got very good at Tetris during this time... (but any good videogame will do, I suppose.) Nintendo works for my son, who has had 18 operations, and the video games worked better than the pain medications, so much so that he often refused the medications.

After a few weeks I started trying other things and what actually helped was the herbal blend called "Airborne." Its for colds but it helped me with shingles, probably because both colds and shingles are caused by a virus.

(No, I don't sell Airborne, or work where it is sold.)
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
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Posted: 11/7/2010 9:41:29 PM

After a few weeks I started trying other things and what actually helped was the herbal blend called "Airborne." Its for colds but it helped me with shingles, probably because both colds and shingles are caused by a virus.

The Airborne may or may not have done the trick. It's quite possible that the pain resolved on its own at that point and it was coincidence that it occurred at the same time you took the Airborne.

Glad to hear that you turned out okay in the end. Shingles in you eye can be very, very serious.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
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Posted: 11/8/2010 8:37:40 AM
Sorry to hear that you got measles in your 30's. I have heard that it is very difficult to get as an adult.

Wow, I didn't know cats got herpes. I guess it makes sense that they can get some of the same viruses humans get. How did you know it is herpes? Do they test for the virus in cats? Who suggested L-lysine, and how did you get the cat to take it?

I have heard of L-lysine for viruses before. I was so sick when I got shingles that it didn't occur to me to take it then. I had been sick with various things for the entire year and I was very run down by the time I got shingles.

It was the end of a long period of chronic illness for me that changed when I finally figured out that I had some version of Celiac disease. After going on a GFCF diet with my son later that year, I got much better within a very short period of time. I think I was deficient in a lot of nutrients by that time because Celiac causes the lining of your intestines to degrade and not absorb food properly. So that I might have been deficient in L-lysine would make sense.

As for the Airborne, I think that coincidence is going to be something you would have to rule out if you were doing some kind of research. I only had myself to research on, and of course, people say "coincidence" for any research study that has only one participant.

All I can say is that it helped immediately. It didn't just happen that the shingles was going away then, I still had it a few more weeks. But the Airborne made me feel better within a few hours, and as long as I kept taking it I felt better. If I missed taking it for the day, I felt worse. Its not a scientific study, just anectdotal evidence, which, of course all Doctors tend to dismiss. However, they miss out on a lot of real human experience that way.

I also started having chicken soup, and that helped too. But I didn't do both at the same time, so I can't say its the soup that did it. I know that chicken soup has had some research done on it, and they did find that it helps during a cold. I do think chicken soup helps more with viruses that affect your lungs.

Here is another cold remedy I have used for many years, that might help with any virus, but I can't say I tried it with the shingles. I was not thinking that clearly then...pain will do that. It helps to know someone who has some home remedies they bring over and nurture you with. Some research has shown that just the act of being nurtured will shorten the length of a cold. ...but I am the one who does all that for others, and I don't have someone who does that for me, unfortunately. I wish there was something like "Rent A Mom" for people like me.

If you take this at the first sign of a cold or flu, it helps even more than later on:

One or two Tablespoons of unfiltered, organic apple cider vinegar *
A spoon full of natural un-pasturized honey, to taste
Very warm water. (Not boiling.) **
Stir. Sip.

Helps the most with a sore throat.

* It has to be Apple Cider Vinegar. Regular vinegar just isn't the same. There is something in the apple cider vinegar that is the active ingredient in this remedy.

** If you boil this you will change it. Boiling wrecks some of the enzymes, from what I have heard.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
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Posted: 11/10/2010 5:30:41 PM

As for the Airborne, I think that coincidence is going to be something you would have to rule out if you were doing some kind of research. I only had myself to research on, and of course, people say "coincidence" for any research study that has only one participant.

All I can say is that it helped immediately. It didn't just happen that the shingles was going away then, I still had it a few more weeks. But the Airborne made me feel better within a few hours, and as long as I kept taking it I felt better. If I missed taking it for the day, I felt worse. Its not a scientific study, just anectdotal evidence, which, of course all Doctors tend to dismiss. However, they miss out on a lot of real human experience that way.


A brief article and video about association and causation. Change by chance is not the same thing as change by cause.

http://bodyinmind.com.au/association-and-causation-and-a-world-record-experiment-to-dissemination/

The clinical sciences literature is full of examples of an association between two variables being mistaken for causation. How many treatments are based on strong evidence that ‘this’ and ‘that’ are related with NO evidence that ‘this’ causes ‘that’? It is a fundamental error and can lead to ridiculous conclusions. That is not the problem I guess because the apparently ridiculous conclusions are usually rejected. The problem is when a seemingly sensible (well at least to some) conclusion is endorsed on the basis of a (biased) explanation.

To emphasise this issue, and to prepare for the monumental milestone of BiM reaching 1000 Facebook members, Heidi took a big lump of initiative and decided to make a short video. It has been great to watch her swear at her computer, tear her hair out (fortunately she has ample) and huff and puff along the way to producing this. One could suggest that she bit off more than she can chew and then chewed like hell. She has produced a 4 minute movie that is a condensed version of the beginning of a talk I did at the 2010 Noigroup Conference in Nottingham. I was fortunate enough to provide entertainment at what must go down as The Best Conference Dinner EVER. One aspect of the ‘entertainment’ was to do an experiment. We had about 180 volunteers. We collected the data, analysed it after the dinner, prepared some slides and presented it in the plenary session the next morning. 12 hours. World record for sure. Anyway, watch the video to find out some of the intriguing results. Oh, and you could let Heidi know if it is worth trying this again on something a bit less frivolous.
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