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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 2
The Zeitgeist MovementPage 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
The "movement" is nothing more than a feel good panacea at best; a cynical con at worst.

They don't actually do anything to make things better, just try to get more people in until they hit some mythical number of adherents when supposedly they will start actually doing something. The number is, of course, stupidly high and would doubtless go up if they actually managed to get that many.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3
view profile
History
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/29/2011 5:03:18 PM
I am not interested in watching a two hour conspiracy theory movie, frankly. I read about it, and that's enough for me.
On the other hand, I do very much believe that a genuine close look at the ramifications of international finance and some of the versions of capitalism that are being pushed forward, is called for. We may or may not be at a particularly important point in human events, but it is certainly true, I think, that some of the manipulations of capitalism which have taken place, and others which are being put forward, are and/or will be ultimately very bad for the world as a whole, and us "peasants" as a sub group.
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 4
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/31/2011 3:31:38 AM

I am not interested in watching a two hour conspiracy theory movie, frankly. I read about it, and that's enough for me.



lol^^^^^I saw the first one and it was some interesting things in there. I to the point now who cares? I told my brother the other day about things we only have a few hours here, just fu%^ing enjoy them.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 5
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:09:21 AM
Well worth the 4 hours it took to download (the price you pay for unlimited but slow down loads:-)
I had seen an earlier one of their films
This version appears to be moving in the right direction
As always one needs to keep their critical thinking facility functioning.
Not sure where I may disagree with it but there is a lot to be considered
There is no need to agree with it in totality to find some worthwhile thinking in it
I certainly see it as offering more probability of positive possibilities than the current system we operate under which definitely encompasses negative inevitabilities

I saw little that I could disagree with in this 50 minute interview with the Zeitgeist Movement's creator Peter Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E&feature=related
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 6
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/4/2011 4:12:33 AM
there is just no way in hell i'm sitting through 2 hours of youtube, and i am certainly not going to listen to 2 solid hours of indoctrination no matter who's doing the talking. however, i did take a peek at their website just for kicks. so here's all ya need to know:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class. Our understandings conclude that these are false, outdated distinctions which are far from positive factors for true collective human growth and potential. Their basis is in power division and stratification, not unity and equality, which is our goal. While it is important to understand that everything in life is a natural progression, we must also acknowledge the reality that the human species has the ability to drastically slow and paralyze progress, through social structures which are out of date, dogmatic, and hence out of line with nature itself. The world you see today, full of war, corruption, elitism, pollution, poverty, epidemic disease, human rights abuses, inequality and crime is the result of this paralysis.

This movement is about awareness, in avocation of a fluid evolutionary progress, both personal, social, technological and spiritual. It recognizes that the human species is on a natural path for unification, derived from a communal acknowledgment of fundamental and near empirical understandings of how nature works and how we as humans fit into/are a part of this universal unfolding we call life. While this path does exist, it is unfortunately hindered and not recognized by the great majority of humans, who continue to perpetuate outdated and hence degenerative modes of conduct and association. It is this intellectual irrelevancy which the Zeitgeist Movement hopes to overcome through education and social action.

The goal is to revise our world society in accord with present day knowledge on all levels, not only creating awareness of social and technological possibilities many have been conditioned to think impossible or against "human nature", but also to provide a means to overcome those elements in society which perpetuate these outdated systems.

An important association, upon which many of the ideas of this movement are derived come from an organization called " The Venus Project" directed by social engineer and industrial designer, Jacque Fresco. He has worked nearly his entire life to create the tools needed to assist a design of the world which could eventually eradicate war, poverty, crime, social stratification and corruption. His notions are not radical or complex. They do not impose a subjective interpretation in their formation. In this model, society is created as a mirror of nature, with the variables predefined, inherently.

The movement itself is not a centralized construct.
We are not here to lead, but to organize and educate.

Everyone must drink the Kool-Aid.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

excuse me, but this is just unmitigated bullshit and mind-numbing psycho-babble.
who has time to think this stuff up, Lord Maitreya?? some other smiling self-appointed savior walking around in a white sheet?? please. me fookin' eyes are bleeding.

 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 7
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/4/2011 5:06:53 PM
Seek and you shall find

Exactly what you are looking for evidently

What I found on the first page of the global USA site was some of the the basic observations below

For those that have eyes that bleed from too much reading (I have the same problem)

What the basic observations say is

The present system is not sustainable and has little incentive to change itself.

If you choose to explore further
Be careful, heads have been known to explode while going through a paradigm shift.
If you do survive you can have the benefit of the clarity that at least 2 views give you.

I wouldn't claim that they have the answer
But I would claim that it is possible good answers can be constructed from some of the fresh ideas presented

Basic Observations:
In the view of The Movement, the world today has become very detached from the physical world, with techniques of production and distribution that have no relationship to the environment. Our use of a profit based, “growth” driven monetary system has become one of the greatest destroyers of the natural world, not to mention sustainable human values. It is important to understand that the entire global economy requires “cyclical consumption” to operate, which means that money must constantly be circulating. Thus, new goods and services must be constantly introduced regardless of the state of the environment and actual human necessity. This "perpetual" approach has a fatal flaw, for resources as we know it are simply not infinite. Resources are finite and the Earth is essentially a closed system.
The true goal of any economy is to preserve - or "economize" - this is not occurring and cannot occur in a monetary driven system where labor for income requires consumer demand. We actually live in a global "anti-economy" by all rational standards.

Also, the intents inherent within a monetary system are counter progressive and derive a strategic edge from scarcity. This means that depleted resources are actually a positive thing for industry in the short term, for more money can be made off each respective unit. This is known as the basic law of supply & demand and hence “value” in economics. This creates a perverse reinforcement to ignore environmental problems and the negative consequences of scarcity, for it literally translates into profit. There is little intrinsic motivation to "solve" any problem or to make things that last in the current model. It is much more beneficial for jobs and hence profit to "service" things- not resolve them.
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 8
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/5/2011 9:46:40 AM

has little incentive to change itself.


exactly

thus "Zeitgeist" is doomed to failure because it/they ALSO have little incentive to change

anything, certainly not in the short-term..as soon as it affects their pocket-books or

requires any MEANINGFUL level of anything like "sacrifice"..

99% + of the "Zeitgesiters" will abandon the movement..just like previous "movements":

the Beats of the 1950's , the hippies of the 1960's, the communes, etc. of late 1960's/early 1970's..and on, and on

what are the "Chicago 7" & "SDS" (Students for a Democratic Society) - who were so "ON FIRE" to 'change the world' back in the 1960's doing now?

last I heard they were all working on Wall st., etc..
 slimchance2010
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 10
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History
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/13/2011 5:42:00 AM
Reading many of the comments here it would appear that the prevailing sentiment is that mankind is intelligent to find more ways to use up all the resources of this planet and ensure it's own extinction but not intelligent enough to find a sustainable way to continue existing here. So why bother with the "psychobabble" discussion of ways to achieve sustainability?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 11
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/13/2011 6:50:14 AM
Reading many of the comments here it would appear that the prevailing sentiment is that mankind is intelligent to find more ways to use up all the resources of this planet and ensure it's own extinction but not intelligent enough to find a sustainable way to continue existing here. So why bother with the "psychobabble" discussion of ways to achieve sustainability?

A basic understanding of nature would provide one with the knowledge that no living thing last forever.

Regardless what you do, man like every other living thing on this planet will go away and by replaced be something else.

Whether it be from our doing or some other force, to deny that is to deny nature.
 slimchance2010
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 12
view profile
History
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/13/2011 2:22:48 PM
Well I was being slightly sarcastic but yeah, that was my point.

It is a little disheartening to see that in the world, the incentive to make the necessary changes ( long term survival) is just not enough for those changes to occur.
Why is it that it will take a cataclysm to implement the changes? It isn't that the trouble is in the future and impossible to see coming.
Not only is there a clear and present danger but the speed that it is coming at us is increasing. Am I being pessimistic? Certainly but just having faith that things will work out is not going to cut it.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 13
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 6:59:22 AM

The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class. Our understandings conclude that these are false, outdated distinctions which are far from positive factors for true collective human growth and potential. Their basis is in power division and stratification, not unity and equality, which is our goal. While it is important to understand that everything in life is a natural progression, we must also acknowledge the reality that the human species has the ability to drastically slow and paralyze progress, through social structures which are out of date, dogmatic, and hence out of line with nature itself. The world you see today, full of war, corruption, elitism, pollution, poverty, epidemic disease, human rights abuses, inequality and crime is the result of this paralysis.


Geeze!... I could have written that. Maybe Zeitgeist should be called the JustDukky movement.

While Zeitgeist is linked with the Venus Project, which I don't see as realistic, I think it helps show the mess we are in right now and where it is taking us. It is almost axiomatic that the current system is unsustainable and riding for a fall. Hopefully, the movies will show that well enough to get some asses in gear.

There will be a major change in human society; the only thing to determine is what that change will be. Given the general ignorance of the TV watchers, or feelings of despair and apathy in many of our other brethren, it would appear the outlook for humanity is none too good. Cheer up!...Atlantis will fall, but I think few of us will survive and we will enter a new stone age to begin anew the perpetual struggle for existence.

On the other hand, this one might be for all the chips and we are looking at the extinction of the human race (after we kill most of the other ones of course) in the next 50 years or so. I'd hate to think that mother earth might wind up a dead planet, but hey...whatcha gonna do? Maybe we just climbed down from the trees too early, without sufficient compassion to create a civilization worth living in.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 14
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 7:58:53 AM
I saw the original movie and it was largely crap. It had a few interesting point about Christianity, but 99% of the claims are demonstrably false. From what I've been able to determine about the Venus Project is that it's just repackaged communism.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 15
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 3:23:07 PM


I can see very little in the Venus Project that equates to Communism.


Have you read the website?

"One of the basic premises of The Venus Project is that we work towards having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people. Anything less will simply result in a continuation of the same catalog of problems inherent in the present system."

"Simply stated, a resource-based economy utilizes existing resources rather than money and provides an equitable method of distributing these resources in the most efficient manner for the entire population."

This sounds a lot like private property being outlawed and the state redistributing wealth while centrally planning the economy. The Venus Project is actually pretty vague about how this wealth will be distributed and who decides what is equitable.



In any case for that to be a criticism you first have to establish that Communism is a bad thing - a point of view, not an axiom.


Communism requires the initiation of force against anyone who is not a communist. Otherwise the system falls apart.



If Communism means that everyone on the planet is truly free (for example subject only to common law and not statute - a whole area of research in itself!) and has access to the necessities of life without entering into servitude then bring it on.


No, that's not what communism means.



In the system proposed by the Venus Project there would be no state control of peoples' lives whatsoever because there would be no state, at least not in the coventional sense. It would also mean people could pursue whatever vocation they want to and contribute to society in whatever way they choose rather than having to take a tedious job they hate just to pay the mortgage.


A state is necessary to the redistribution of wealth, even if they don't want to call it a state. People, when left to their own devices, accumulate wealth. Even the homeless have their shopping carts loaded with their accumulated wealth. Who will till the soil knowing that anyone can just take the fruit of their labor and potentially be left starving?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 16
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 10:37:25 PM

we work towards having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people

What's there to work towards? The world's resources ARE the common heritage of all the world's people already.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 17
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/28/2011 2:32:13 PM

The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class.

How much more political can you get than declaring political boundaries and social arrangements null and void?

Care to explain how non-recognition of political bodies constitutes being political in and of itself? I'm curious.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 18
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/28/2011 10:06:40 PM


If you were to look at things like the zeitgeist movement, and all utopianists, you will see that there is only one way to achieve as they so fervently believe in, and that is through an ALL POWERFUL state, that controls all..................


Seems pretty obvious to me. Utopian fantasies like these rely either on this all powerful state (=no personal freedom) or on 7 billion people fundamentally changing their values. This one in particular seems to have an unrealistic view of science too. They act as if you can plug in some data into a computer and it will magically predict where we need to build bridges, how much wheat to grow, etc. Planned economies never work, but that's what the Venus Project is based on.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 19
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/28/2011 11:24:24 PM
Ahh Paul, It;s good to talk to you again. I've heard of Proenneke. In fact I hope to live the rest of my life much as he did. If all goes well, I should be getting away from our disgusting miserable excuse for civilization within the year, hopefully by fall. Being city born & bred (read as "soft"), there is much to learn and it may kill me, but at least I'll die happy, working to build a small community of like-minded people.

Getting back to "Zeitgeist":

if said parties were no longer around, what would take their place?

How about the rule of law as supreme and administrative bodies operating transparently and open to public scrutiny? The public SERVANTS could be elected/appointed according to whatever rules the public decides. The divisive charade of partisan politics has pretty well run its course don't you think? It isn't fooling anyone anymore...unless they need watering twice a week.

Government should NOT be composed of leaders; it should be composed of FOLLOWERS of the public wish. The public itself should be controlled by natural law, which I think is best expressed as "Do as you damn well please as long as you do no harm. If you do the crime, you'll get due process, then hang."
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 20
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/1/2011 9:43:20 AM
err, yes..

"TRANSITION PERIOD" eh?

that's what the people who controlled the Russian Revolution in 1917 said: "Well we will just need a short transition period of harsh state control by the Communist Party, then of course people will all be "enlightened" and we can enjoy our communist "Utopia"..

of course, the "Transition Period" never ended ..and you got pogroms, starvation of the Ukrainians, vast purges of opposing politicians (Stalin having his "Friend"/rival Trotsky killed and many, many others), the KGB, Gulags, political prisoners, "young Communists" kids spying on their parents and reporting them to the State for not being "Good Communists", backing & supporting of the most repressive & terroristic regimes (Sierra Leone, Cuba, Angola, Libya, Iraq, then later Iran, N. Korea, N. Vietnam, etc., etc.- basically any country that would accept communist help and fight against imperialistic Yankee-backed people or countries)

The 'transition period' just went on & on & on..over multiple generations, the first ( & 2nd & #rd & so on) generation that participated never got to see "utopia"..

still have the KGB, (now re-named the FSB) , repression, most of the same ol' shite, maybe toned down a bit since 'glasnost' & 'perestroika' . similar tales in Cuba, N. Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia/Kampuchea, etc., etc. --"re-education" camps where anyone not proclaiming themselves to be staunch commies would be shot
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 21
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/1/2011 9:46:57 AM
Glasgow man, you're 36 years old, doubtful you'd be getting 'draft papers' so save your worry.

so many people "freed" from ever having to work?

would mean mass depression because they'd have too much time on their hands and not know what to do with themselves..

ever see what happens to Hollywood stars/stars/pro athletes who are highly paid and not always kept busy? money without responsibility..

so many destroy themselves with illegal drugs & booze, see Lindsay Lohan, too many rock starts to mention, etc., etc.

the majority (perhaps not all) people have a 'need' to be led.
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 22
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/1/2011 10:31:05 AM
read some of Ayn Rand's books, though she's rather doctrinaire I think she deals with this shite quite well and her books were mostly written 50-60-70 or more years ago.

human nature doesn't really change over time despite changes in technology, etc.

"The Fountainhead", "Atlas Shrugged", etc.
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 23
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/2/2011 8:44:24 AM

Also an architect or interior designer would be able to put their designs straight into essentially the public domain for anyone to use since it would be pointless to patent anything.


err..yes. I can see how there would be great incentive to spend years of one's life studying architecture when there is basically no return for doing so, you would get the same lifestyle as someone who has lounged about in his underwear for the same four years while you were studying your butt off?

same for medical doctors, etc. or would all that be done by the 'machines' you spoke of?

why would we even need "human" architects?

'machines' could do everything?

ah I can see it now, Terminator II :The Rise of The Machines..lol

They will take control then unleash "Judgment Day" on humankind as they will become self-aware and want to control EVERYTHING, get rid of pesky humans altogether
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 24
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/4/2011 11:48:18 PM
Hey Paul...glad I grew up with three siblings rather than education. for darn sure. Too bad its only sane to have one these days. How very boring and ugly. Paul...tell me..do you really believe population control and etc., etc., cures all? What a joke. Oh by the way all of my siblings were somewhat educated and erudite in their respective ways. Oh..I see. You mean all those dumbos in India, etc who should be stopped!! At least according to you. We are educated up to our ying yangs here in the Western Hemisphere and yet our quality of life is disappearing. What has that got to do with your respect for Education? If we are REALLY educated, we would have nothing to do with this global madness that reduces all to slavery, peasanthood and numbness. The structure that supports education also supports the status quo. Too bad. Maintain the madness and consider yourself educated. Or more simply...the more money you have and the more toys...the better off you are...never mind the rest.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 25
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/5/2011 3:52:07 PM

Your problem has nothing to do with housing, it has to do with education.

^^^
First we have to learn how we function
then we have to choose how we function

Then who knows what may happen?
Something as miraculous as agreeing with PK :-)
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 26
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/8/2011 9:41:26 PM
Paul...happiness is beside the point. Always and forever. A bigger picture never has anything to do with platitudes and saving your money. What is missing from your picture is an honest appraisal of global madness and moral torpitude. Please do not insult me with my personal lacking, these darn words and idealogies such as..."making life better for yourself and your offspring" is also the essence of the problem of what is ignored and denied. The problem as I see it...is that we are citizens of the Earth and nothing more, nothing less. Therein is the problem. Life demands more than personal success and happiness. Ugh.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 27
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 3/10/2011 11:09:31 PM
Being in your own "skin" is precisely where everybody goes wrong. You are right only to a certain extent. Happiness is a dumb principle. Period. Its ultimate goal is selfish. No need to delineate the personal pettiness and ultimate goal of what happiness really means. If happiness were defined as a whole rather than singular pursuit...we would then be talking sense.
Please do not tell me that the pursuit of wealth and power is acceptable. It never is, it never will be, it it is the reason we suffer. Kripes. Think about this for just a milla second. F...., what the hell is wrong with the egalitarian masses?
Oh please do not be ....diplomatic. Personal happiness has everything to do with what you did not consume to meet your wants and hungry ego desires. Hey....did you ever just SEE the sunrise?
Miserable is the definition of those who support the endless, blind, tiresome platitudes that are not beauty or definition of every person who had to die unawknowledged and forsaken due to a pursuit of creepy human happiness. Amen.
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