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 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 1
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islamization of london englandPage 1 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
i have just watched a very interesting wee French tv documentary about the said islamization of london.

if anyone wants to know what their life will be like for British bairns or grandbairns in 50 years time then have a wee gander at what the religion of peace will offer.

i dont know how to post links but i just typed into google

islamization of London, England French tv

you will get the link to youtube. it lasts around 11 mins

basically the French are schocked at how our intolerant liberal/ fascist left are allowing the once great city of London to be renamed Londinistan.

still anyone who voted for the liblabcon your partly to blame for your own woes. you got what you voted for

oh and all you lassies on here? better cut the waffling time before a date down to a week and a half maximum.

because the religion of peace has plans for you (aside from beasting young white lassies) just take the beatings that the religion of peace will dish out. after all its your own fault according to the 'holy' man.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2
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Posted: 2/2/2011 8:11:25 AM
Woof! Good luck with your fantasy there. Standard "hey, worry about THIS!" stuff from the media again. Using it to try to get women to get off the mark is almost as old as reporters making up end-of-the-world-as-you-know-it stories to get extra attention for their advertisers.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 3
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Posted: 2/2/2011 10:03:14 AM
well islam is well known for its being a champion of womens rights.

still the intolerant liberals/fascist left who make the big decisions will conveniently look the other way and pretend women have a great life in islamic countrys.

and of course whilst the intolerant liberal/fascist leftbombard the proles with the homosexual/lesbian 'rights' agenda, they also conveniently manage to not notice that the agenda they press home daily does not seem to apply to the islamics.

i suppose if you dont look long enough then it will go away.

of course the geezer who will be the top man in the mosque being built at ground zero saying that homosexuals are only the way they are because they were abused as children will be ignored and nary a word said to him.

will new yorks homosexual/lesbian community be protesting? and new york politicians be incandessant with rage over this statement?

or will protest be stifled, as it is in this country?

i think you should look into the religion of peace a wee bit more mate. maybe you will see that not only has the emporer no clothes he but seems to have an explosive vest.

toodle pip
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 4
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Posted: 2/2/2011 12:17:10 PM

I am not surprised that Islamophobia is alive and well in all parts of the world.


I still wonder what "Islamophobia" means. Is it just a trendy neologism designed to short-circuit reasoned debate, or something more? Since you seem to know all about Islam--your "praise be to Allah" comment suggests you may be a Muslim yourself--I wonder if you could educate those of us who don't have your depth of knowledge. Also, I don't understand your remark about the poster's "racist" hatred. Is Islam now a race, instead of a religion?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5
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Posted: 2/2/2011 1:26:30 PM
oh dear oh dear
islamophobia, a fear of islam. na i dont fear islam.

why does islam practice hatenonmuslimkaffirinfidelophobia?

the johnny come latelys of religion playing the islamophobia card.


can you first of all tell me when the religion of islam became a race?

i seem to have missed the protestant and catholic as well as the sikh and hindu races wandering around.

i am not religious as you can probably tell. although it bothers me none that other follow and take comfort from some invisible being.

but i do get a tad pissed off when others demand that their beliefs start to interfere with my life and how i live it when everything was going along just fine before.

and when the craven spinless divvys who run the country start eroding things i can do to pander to a minority who spit the dummy out if they dont get their own way then yep i get a tad annoyed.

im not taking anyones right away. im having mine taken though.

in the uk we have had laws which although not great gave some semblance of order. we lived with them. but why do muslims not want to live by these laws? why did our spineless poiticians allow them to practice sharia law in some areas? albiet a watered down version.
mecca bigo halls closed offensive to islam

pubs closed down to near the mosques offensive to islam

christmas festivals cancelled although i will concede thats more down to stupid intolerant liberal/fascist left white daftys. whay cancelled? offensive to islam.

is there anything that DOESN'T offend islam? if there is can you enlighten me? never a week goes by where there is not MUSLIM FURY, MUSLIM OUTRAGE or MUSLIMS OUTRAGED AND FURIOUS.

see i dont see many of the other religious beliefs being tolerated in islamic countrys. i dont hear the pakistani government allowing churches to spring up and practice non halal slaughter.

when they build the new mosque/islamic centre at ground zero will islam show the same tolerance and show that they respect others rights to live as non islamists? will there be a couple of bars built nearby? a nightclub maybe? how about a gay and lesbian drop in centre? maybe a gambling house? or a pork chop dinner joint?

na dont hold your breath, its one way and one way only. islams way or no way.

im proud to be a kaffir and an infidel, your religion my friend is the problem.

intolerant of all that is not islam.

i hope one day your god will see fit to tell the religion that follows him that others have the right to not live life as you do.

anyway toodle pip
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 6
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Posted: 2/2/2011 1:54:48 PM
ive no doubt the thread will be deleted.

but if it is could someone point out what is not true about the op or my later posts?

all is checkable and can be given sources.

ive heard about a trial in cananda (i think) years ago where the man in the dock was told that 'the truth is no defence'

free speech eh? thank the (enter whatever god you think is the only true one) that the nazis never won the war, they stifled free speech you know?

i just checked youtube 108,285 have viewed the clip since the clip was first uploaded.

and yet the thread will probably end up removed due to seven votes? lol ah well what does it matter? the truth is still the truth whether its censored or not.

ah well back to talking about the weather and should x factor be moved to a monday night?
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 7
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/2/2011 1:59:24 PM

well islam is well known for its being a champion of womens rights.

Wow I would almost laugh but it's really not all that funny.Only shockingly inaccurate.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 8
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/2/2011 3:04:39 PM

Laugh all you want, but Islam has given rights to women like no other!!!!

Uhh huh sure.Being property of their fathers and then their husbands,being stoned to death over anything a male relative charges them with,honor killings,being forced to marry men they don't want too, and all those wonderful things are just the height of womens rights.

Don't even bother to say those things are rare because everyone knows they are not.They even happen right here in my own country.I guess they drag their stone age beliefs with them no matter where they go.



The abuse of women and minorities you guys see in the Muslim world it has no religious basis. The reasons and causes are demographic , cultural, and historical.

Since it is so incredibly common then I guess most of your people don't follow your own prophets rules.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 9
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Posted: 2/2/2011 3:09:48 PM
I'm amazed someone from the land who's leaders drew all those arbitrary lines in the sand at the root of problems between Muslim Nations and others could be so far behind the blinds.

Judging Islam by the un-islamic actions of a few thousand hypocritical "fundamentalists" is like judging all Americans from one inbred family in Appalachia or the Colorado Plateau.

We have a saying in this country I thought worked a lot better over in the UK given your unwillingness to support your PM in 2003 when most of us were foaming at the mouth: "Think! Its very Patriotic!"
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 10
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Posted: 2/2/2011 3:38:13 PM

Islam has given rights to women like no other!!!!


That statement is false. Here are several examples of overt bias against women in the Qu'ran itself.

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [i.e. women]"

Qu'ran (4:11) ( on inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"

Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." For believers, angels may not be female. This is no less a bias because it's shared by Christianity.

Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) permit men to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage.


The Hadiths show this same bias against women. Here are a few examples of many that could be listed:

Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. The only women Muhammad mentions as being in heaven are the virgins who are there for men to have sex with.

Abu Dawud (2155) - Compares women to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq (969) - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." This text also justifies beating women for flirting.


In Turkey, women have achieved far more rights than in other Muslim countries precisely because after the Ottoman Empire ended, Kemal Ataturk reformed the laws and government to make them secular. Unfortunately, those reforms are now being threatened by Islamists in Turkey.

There's no shortage of apologists for Muslim jihad either in Europe or the U.S. I think what motivates most of them is moral cowardice, or in some cases, the hope they can stay safe by groveling before evil.

They are a fifth column that is helping to pave the way for the worldwide caliphate Muslim jihadists hope to create. They're as despicable as Vidkun Quisling, Pierre Laval, and others who helped the Nazis against their own countries as World War II began.

Months ago, people could be seen cheerleading for jihadists on several threads here, parroting the party line: Neither the Fort Hood mass murderer nor the Christmas Day underwear bomber was a jihadist (a flagrant lie); and the Cordoba Project in New York was all about the First Amendment guarantee of free exercise of religion (another flagrant lie.)

In fact, that project is the work of front groups like the ISNA and the IIIT, which (like the better-known CAIR) were created here by the same Muslim Brotherhood (aka the "Ikhwan") which has wanted for the past 70 years or more to rule Egypt. Today, who knows but what its dream will soon come true, and the world will have a second Islamist theocracy? The Muslim Brotherhood has already succeeded in creating HAMAS, which now controls the government of Gaza.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 11
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Posted: 2/2/2011 5:51:18 PM

What do you have to say to that? There are many women like that in Islamic countries. Interestingly, she is very fluent in English.


Gosh, who knew? Do you really imagine I've never seen highly educated Muslim women? I've worked with and been in school with quite a few of them. So what?

What you and a lot of other Muslims don't seem willing to admit is that the root of violent jihad is in Islam itself. Jihadists all over the world consider themselves devout Muslims, and one of the most important parts of jihadist mass murders has often been the blessing some supposed holy man bestows on them.

That's exactly why Nidal Hasan emailed back and forth to Yemen to his former imam, Anwar al-Awlaki, in December, 2008. He didn't have the guts to shoot down a bunch of unarmed people, until Awlaki had first given it his religious stamp of approval. Same with Abdulmutallab--he was going to blow up that plane over Detroit on Christmas Day because his religious studies in London had convinced him it was Allah's will.

Some murderers consider themselves Christians, too, and justify killing abortion doctors or federal agents by citing passages in the Bible. Even in the 1850's, John Brown justified all sorts of brutal murders in Kansas and the seizure of a federal arsenal in the name of Christianity. And he hanged for it, after seeing his sons killed.

But those nuts--even Brown and his followers--have never posed a serious threat to the security of this country. And the last time they threatened civilization in Europe was in the Middle Ages, when a succession of violent heretical pseudo-Christian cults formed peasant armies that rampaged around for centuries, murdering priests, landowners, and anyone else their mystic demigods said they should hate.

Today, unfortunately for all the hundreds of millions of Muslims who are good citizens, the threat--and it's ultimately a threat to the peace of the whole world--is coming almost entirely from radical Islamists. These men are justifying the wholesale murder of innocent people, including women and children, in the name of Islam.

To them, Islam means not much more than the suras of the Qu'ran which describe the laws Mohammad laid down for his followers during their 19 years in Medina. All Jews must die, and the strictest form of shariah is to be observed--beheadings, stonings of homosexuals and adulterous women, sex with young girls--the works.

By their lights, everyone who doesn't agree with them has only three choices: Convert to their 7th-century version of Islam, and live as they do under shariah; pay the jizya, a tax meant to emphasize your subhuman status, and be allowed to live (barely) as a dhimmi; or be killed, as so many germs polluting Allah's realm.

These people have all the primitive, bloodthirsty impulses of the Nazis--including a belief in their supremacy and a vicious hatred of Jews--but without the veneer of modern civilization. There is no talking with them. There is only killing them, and their movement, before they can kill or makes slaves of us.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 12
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Posted: 2/2/2011 6:55:24 PM
Msg 15

your reference to tony blair in 2003 is i take it about the invasion of iraq?

no i didnt support either the invasion of iraq or having our troops in afghanistan. if the peoples of iraq wanted rid of saddam hussein then it was up to them to do it not us.

weapons of mass destruction? u.n. security resolutions not adhered to.
and? the united states would not have been a target for them. neither would the uk.

israel would or near enough. but then who constantly tells the united nations and their resolutions to piss off?

the middle east would not be as much of a powder keg if the european governments and the united states said to israel 'you either sit down with the arabs and get it sorted, or you can get on with things on your own'

if i was an iraqi i would be in a state of rage at 'coalition'. who the hell thought the iraqis were going to 'become democratic'?

i remember watching the twin towers attack live on tv. it wasnt your uneducated muslims who carried out the atrocity. it was the educated ones. the ones classed as 'moderate'.

yep the anti war protest brought around a million on to the streets of london against the iraq war. the same streets that were bloodstained by bombs carried and detonated by uk muslims.

funny enough the muslim community never organised a massive protest march against suicide bombers.

after the london bombs 'our' pm tony blair made an announcement
it was a crawling fawning bleat that islam was not to blame and the majority of muslims are disgusted. then he mentioned the victims.

even in death appeasing islam came before all else.

there is a uk made film called Four Lions if you get a chance to see it then you should it portrays elements of the religion of peace as close as you can get.

another question for the muslim lads who are commenting, why dont all the top figures in the religion of islam issue a statement that 'no dafty you dont go to the next life and get your whatever ammount of virgins (good to see they include women in this even if they are just the prize to the murderer) what happens is you get blown to bits and shown up to be an arsehole of the highest order. (but dont worry in the uk the family you leave behind will be looked after by the infidel taxpayers)

anyway more debates are needed like this instead of people being silenced by the intolerant liberal/fascist left elite.

perhaps sunni muslims and shia muslims can explain why they hate us as non muslims but seem to hate each other even more

toodle pip
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 13
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Posted: 2/3/2011 8:56:47 AM
F.P. cheers for the message.

intolerant liberals? liberals hate not getting THEIR version of how we should live our lifes, look at most liberal manifestos. they are full of what they are going to ban. look how many times 'wont be tolerated' gets mentioned. they are the most intolerant political creed who see the masses as stupid and who need led by the liberal hand as they know whats best for us all.
hence intolerant liberals.

fascist left? the fascists and the national socialists are only a ball hair away grom being one and the same. central government, public workers controlled by the state, all assets and manufacturing bases either in state control or working for the state. dissent will not be tolerated and crushed, press and news outlets controlled by the state, always banging on about 'the workers' or 'the people' now take away the words fascist and national socialists and put communism and socialism.

the closest workers movement the left have as rivals are whats known as the far right. they are not too far apart on their ideology. so being one and the same they become the fascist left

sworn enemies maybe, but politicaly they read from the same book

so you take your average spit the dummy out liberal who stamps his feet till he gets his way and bans something he does not like, and who will not tolerate others not agreeing with him. add a good bit of centrelised state controlled wont tolerate any views but their own and you have ?
intolerant liberal/fascist left

you dont need to read reams of articles and books to know them, just animal farm and 1984 will do

aw the best

vlad dracul
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 14
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Posted: 2/3/2011 9:24:11 AM
Last i checked fascists were the far right and sworn enemies of the left or "Liberals" as American call them.


That's the usual portrayal, all right. The Stalinists in Russia are responsible for it--they started using right/reactionary (the right/left concept had originated much earlier in France) as a label to smear other communists they thought weren't doctrinaire enough.

It makes more sense to see philosophies of government as forming a spectrum from anarchy, at one extreme--no government at all--to totalitarianism at the other--government of every public concern. Fascist states like Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany were totalitarian, or close to it, with almost all means of production under central government control. In that respect, they were no different from Stalin's Soviet Union. And they were more or less tyrannies. It's not surprising that civil rights and the rule of law can't exist in a totalitarian scheme.

Having studied the sad history of tyrannies, the men who framed the U.S. Constitution designed a government that would be just far enough away from anarchy to stay in one piece and see to a few essentials like a national military--and that's all. People who feel free to ignore the Constitution have an authoritarian streak themselves--and most of them are ignorant enough, arrogant enough, or both, to call themselves "liberal" or "progressive." That is exactly what they are NOT. It makes perfect sense to have "liberal" Brownshirts in America. We have millions of them, always trying to dictate what people may do, say, and even think.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 15
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:07:12 AM
i have noticed that in america certain parts of your constitution are being slowly eroded and chipped away by ammendments and constant shrieking of the liberal elite.

i was appalled at the way sarah palin was blamed for the shooting in arizona, from the min the shooting happened the intolerant liberals had a blood letting fest.

the tea party movement seems to particularly upset the 'elite' as its something they cannot control. so they smear and lie and use their smug know all snearing voices talk down to its members like they were stupid children.

as a wee aside i was watching south park the cartoon thingy, hybrid cars and all that, and one character said 'why do smug people always talk with their eyes closed when talking to you?'

and its true, ive watched them in the uk. watch the next time a know all liberal is talking down to ordinary folk its amazing how many of them do that. its like you should not question them as, what do you know?

fight for your founding fathers rules to live by mate.

in the uk tony bliar sold our nation out to the european union and we got the 'european human rights' laws.

under 'human rights' laws everyone has rights except the victims of crime, the tax payer and usually the working indigenous population.

we have illegal immigrants here who should have been deported going on to kill an innocent. he gets jailed and told he will be deported after the sentence. oh no he isnt, vermin shark human rights lawyers say if he is deported he MAY get treated badly when returned. outcome? illegal here to stay. lawyer makes fortune, illegal murdering immigrant gets released, we the tax payers pay the lawyers bill look after the illegal murdering immigrant through the benefits system as well as keeping the vermin alive in jail.

the only losers? the victims family and the tax payer.

im keeping an eye on hilary 'is she isnt she' clinton. that old trout personifies the intolerant liberal

beware
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 16
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:08:59 AM
The expected, and usual, projection and drivil from the far Reich. There is nothing on the left in the US that remotely compares to the brown shirts of far right groups like Joel's Army, The Third Wave, Neo-Nazis, Christian Identity, Council of Conservative Citizens, Hammerskin Nation, National Alliance, World Church of the Creator, League of the South, Aryan Nations, KKK organizations, and hundreds of others who are intent on a white controlled theocracy, a Christian Taliban for the US to dictate what books are banned, what behaviors and religions and races are unacceptable, and how the country is run, educated, and driven into ignorance and hate.

If you look at the last administration, it was the far right who led the charge to suspend basic human rights in the US. These same far right groups mentioned above had no problem with that assault on the constitution until a half Black man took their White house.

The far right is now engaged in wars against brown people domestically and abroad, going insane with islamophobia, calling for the nuking of Iran, and manufacturing fantasies to support their downward spiral into insanity. Beck and his loonies are now equating the events in Egypt to be part of some vast left wing conspiracy. Expect more of this projection from the far right, and the growth of yet more Brown Shirt hate groups from the far Reich of America and the EU.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 17
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:46:52 AM
well i would disagree with you that your last administration was far right.

i seen them as the worst kind of capitalist neo cons and the conservitives who were flexing their muscles and dragging your young men and women into conflicts which benefits america not one iota. it does however benefit the corporation neo con conglomerates.
a christian taliban? lol
well i would say your christian taliban (i like that) have more in common with your liberals. so entrenched and dogmatic only the bible seperates them.

as for the other groups you mention there have been countless documenteries made about them. i have yet to hear one of those groups advocate fighting wars in far off countrys.

all racial groups have their own agenda in america. i would argue that what i class as far right groups , would look inward and try to get back to what they percieve rightly or wrongly as the america where the constitution looked after the majority rather than the constitution which is being chipped away to look after the minority.

and what of the black panthers? the nation of islam? the very vociferous hispanic nationalists? they must have an agenda?

when poorer people, of all races get pushed into a corner and they have no voice then the far right, the nation of islam, hispanic nationalism seem like beacons.

as for the far left i know what you mean, they have never got a toe hold in america. but you have something that equals them. they are called liberals mix them with the christian taliban and hey presto
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 18
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Posted: 2/3/2011 12:27:52 PM
Vlad..since you apparently are not familiar with our Christian Taliban, you might note that they hate liberals in the US, equating them with "terrorists", "anti-religion", "commies, marxists, elites", bla bla bla. The "Liberal Hunting Permit" is popular with these brown shirts. Our ACLU is considered "leftist" because they have consistently stood up for free speech and rights for all people, including hate groups at times. The far right here has successfully divided the working classes against one another. (See Joe Bageant's "Deer Hunting with Jesus" for an excellent essay on this strategy). The Christian Taliban is moving into control in the highest offices of our government, including the Pentagon. The center and left in the US is the only hope to prevent full blown fascism from taking over in this country. After the 9/11 wakeup call, fully 80% of the nation's populace was goaded to the edge of that fascism. We are in remission for now, but it was disconcerting to say the least, at how readily a nation like ours could starch and press their Brown Shirts.
Quotes from the American Christo-Fascist Taliban.
http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 19
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Posted: 2/3/2011 2:05:52 PM
msg 26 and msg 27

it sounds to me that you are both very intolerant of the intolerance, and hateful of the hate that you seem to claim that i have.

better watch. someone might denounce and accuse you of being what you claim others to be.

anyway lads im going to have myself some beers. and im going to drink more than the health fascists say is good for me as well.

vlad dracul

p.s.( funny how the father of vlad the impaler and the creation of baron frankenstein, both gothic outsiders are debating)
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 20
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Posted: 2/3/2011 4:43:21 PM
tolerance of intolerance has only allowed the far right to empower themselves further into the monsters they have become. Just because we no longer roll over, allow the lies and craziness to go unchallenged, does not mean that the remaining sane people are falling down to their low levels, but rather, that good people must speak truth to evil. No judgement involved, when it is so obvious that the motivations, results, and intentions of such actions from the far Reich, are indeed against basic human decency, truth, and sustainable cultures. By every measure in the reality based world, the tactics and results of those actions from that faction, are indeed the antithesis of making the world better, improving human relations, and providing sustainable solutions for a plethora of quantitative results.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 21
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Posted: 2/3/2011 5:50:18 PM

manufacturing fantasies to support their downward spiral into insanity.


Maybe you can make yourself available to give them some lessons in that. If you had anything coherent or rational to say, I might take you up on the points. But nothing I've seen from you even rates the effort of taping my hands and lacing on the gloves. I'll leave this thread to you.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 22
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Posted: 2/4/2011 12:09:53 AM
msg 30
i have to say that all i took from the previous post to your one is that people who do not subscribe to the intlib (very catchy and soundbiteish) view will be dragged kicking and screaming until they do.
one mans 'far reich' is another mans normality. but intlibs dont want normality.

they have to interfere, tell you what you can eat, what you can drink and how much, if you wish to smoke you will treated as a criminal.

i tend to find though that intlibs never put a good argument up for the interference in everyones life.

if you chose to go and live in the country, miles away from anywhere. contact others when you need to but otherwise leave all the rat race behind. sounds good.

oh no its not. why are you staying away out here? where are your taxes, why have you not registered with the authorities so they can watch your every move and spy on you. the intlib wet dream. one world. their world. one leader. we want you big hilary

just a wee aside for you. did you know that in the uk you need a licence to watch tv? they come to your door and make you sign up there and then. it costs around £150 per year.

if you refuse to get one you can be fined £1000 or jailed. now thats intlib at its best.

and the money goes to the bbc, who of course monitor what goes out on the screen. hand picked tv of course.

anyway its going around in circles now. but the intlibs can try and control every aspect of our lives but they cannot silence non conformists having free thought.

go to your death with both hands untied mate.


all the best

vlad
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 23
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 8:08:25 AM

Laugh all you want, but Islam has given rights to women like no other!!!!

1). Right for education
2). Right to own property
3). Right to Own businesses
4). Divorce rights
5). Right to choose their own husband.


Even suggesting Islam GAVE these right to women indicates complete misogyny and a total lack of respect for women. Women always had these rights. You would have had to have taken them away in the first place in order to give them back.


Lets put it this way. I am not knowledgeable as I should be in religion matters.


No kidding.
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 24
islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 9:40:47 AM
@Matchlight:

1. It may sound like a quibble, but Dhimmitude was never a "subhuman" status, to start with. When dhimmitude actually was historically enforced, the status of non-Muslims in Muslim-controlled territory was much better than the status of non-Christians in Christian-controlled territory.

2. The virulent hatred of Islamists for Jews does have roots in the Qu'ran, more specifically in the petty tribal squabbles between the Prophet's followers and various groups of Jews in Arabia in the 7th century. But it's modern manifestation is primarily political and not simply religious in origin-- not that the Islamists make any clear distinctions, because Islam as they understand it is inherently political. It has everything to do with the "Naqba" or 'disaster'-- the creation of the state of Israel and the perpetuation of Israel's sovereignty over some of the 'holiest' sites in Islam.

3. That whole debate is completely internally contradictory in any event. Anyone who has done any serious study of the Qu'ran has to be aware that Muslims have, in effect, a duty to revolt against any government that is not run according to Qu'ranic principles. They are also not supposed to live in countries that are not run according to Qu'ranic principles.

Immigration to the West is actually contrary to Islam, which is a point which Islamists in Western countries conveniently ignore.

4. According to certain strands of Judaism, the existence of Israel in its present form is blasphemous. The general consensus is that the Mosiach has not returned, and Israel is not supposed to be established until He does return. Needless to say, many Jews have an issue with this belief system but this is cherry-picking out of religious texts.

So both 9/11 and the "Naqba" were contrary to Islamic and Jewish law, respectively, because Muslims, under Quranic law, have no business being in secular and sinful America, and Jews, under Halakhic law, have no business establishing a state in Palestine because the Mosiach is not back yet.

5. The "threat" is not just from radical Islamists. Political Islamism in its present form exists for very good reasons.

Many people in Western countries are just completely uninformed of the history of the rest of the world.

Western countries have a track record over the last century and into this one of invading, colonizing, co-opting and dominating countries all over the Muslim world. Iraq is only the latest example of this, and thousands of people have died as a result of an invasion prompted by lies. Western countries also have a track record of propping up the brutal dictatorships that populations across the Middle East are in revolt against right now, in Tunisia and Egypt and elsewhere.

I'm not defending terrorism, but oppressing people has consequences, and one of those consequences is that they try to lash out and strike back. No insult is intended to Muslims by this analogy, but if you kick a dog, how can you be offended if it bites you?
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 25
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islamization of london england
Posted: 2/4/2011 10:02:46 AM

when they build the new mosque/islamic centre at ground zero will islam show the same tolerance and show that they respect others rights to live as non islamists? will there be a couple of bars built nearby?


Anyone very familiar with the area will tell you it is right smack dab in the center of a bunch of adult bookstores, bars and sex shops. But no one seems to object to those within walking distance from ground zero.
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