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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > On Wisconsin.      Home login  
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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 1
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History
On Wisconsin.Page 1 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
As events play out in Wisconsin, the far right tries to paint this as some sort of fiscal/budget issue, or that this is part of a larger global scheme of liberals and muslims lining up to destroy life as we know it, or that the Anti-Christ is in Madison, just because workers are trying to retain their rights for collective bargaining.

In truth, this is a Tea Party darling of a Governor, funded by the Koch Brothers, intent on destroying Unions. Since corporations were granted "citizenship" status with the power to blatantly buy elections, Unions remained in a much smaller way, the only major contributors to Democrats. Now the Koch Brothers' pawns installed in Governorships and houses and senates around the country are engaged in a concerted campaign to destroy Unions and help ensure a more permanent Republican majority to help run the country for business interests only. The destruction of the Unions and middle class will help return us to the good old days of the company store, violent suppression of workers complaints, Sinclairs "The Jungle", suspension of worker safety laws, and job security/scabs.

As reported in Forbes..
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/
And Mother Jones..
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/wisconsin-scott-walker-koch-brothers

What is happening in Wisconsin is a blueprint for the rest of the nation. Keep your eyes open.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 2
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 9:04:48 AM
I been rather surprised to see the working people of Wisconsin, stand up to defend their rights.
Labor unions built the great American middle class, but for the past 40 years, union membership has declined steadily and the middle class along with it.
The corporations wont be satisfied until they turn the U.S. into a tin horn banana republic. We will never regain the economic prosperity we had before, until unions come back to where they were.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 3
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 9:48:04 AM
It just seems so cynical.

The Governor brought in business tax cuts that slashed revenues and took the budget from a surplus to a deficit. Then he turns around and blames the teachers for the crisis. He uses that to bring in anti-union legislation. The workers are wobbling - hardly a surprise.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 4
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 12:55:34 PM

or that this is part of a larger global scheme of liberals and muslims lining up to destroy life as we know it, or that the Anti-Christ is in Madison,


Good lord. Exaggerate much? Where are you getting this dramatic bunch of bullshit? Is there an actual source for this nonsense?

We all know the Tea Party are a bunch of scary kooks.

My brother-in-law works through a union in Indiana. His wages are at the same level as the non-union workers here in Florida. He pays huge union fees, gets NO paid time off what so ever and has very crappy health insurance. Who is protecting him from THEM?

I'm not saying that unions are all bad. There was a time that they saved the working man from horrible working conditions. But, with all the regulation in place now regarding safety in the workplace, do they still serve the same purpose? Do union workers have it better than non-union workers in like capacities?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 5
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 2:32:16 PM
I was not the one exagerating...It was the Beckster. He also has his Anti-christ rant going as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0HU4khViLA

Maddow covered the increasingly insane Beckster's ties between Egypt, Wisconsin, Obama, and the Anti-Christ.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-marvels-at-glenn-becks-antichrist-wisconsin-protest-coverage/

Many of his loonies converged on Wisconsin today, doing the Orwell-speak thing.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 6
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 5:19:32 PM
WI Governor's Fake Budget Crisis: Gave Tax Breaks to Wal-Mart to Further Real Agenda -- Union Busting

I have been attending the rallies, watching the coverage, reading the blogs and comments and come to the conclusion that most people don't know the true horror of this bill. I have come to set the record straight particularly when I saw a Front Page Diary here on Daily Kos that, again, talks about this bill only affecting state workers.

There is no fiscal crisis in Wisconsin. Governor Walker reports a nearly 130 million dollar deficit, but doesn't report that he caused it by giving a 140 million dollar tax break to large multinational corporations here in Wisconsin (e.g. WalMart). However, this cover story gives him an excuse to do the unthinkable.

State workers in Wisconsin have been without contracts for some time. The latest agreement (containing major concessions) was not passed by the State Legislature last year due to political maneuvering which led one Democrat to vote against it (he was later rewarded with a position in the new Walker administration).

But that's not really what I came to talk about. I came to talk about a so-called Budget Repair Bill to solve a fake budget crisis without addressing the budget at all.

So, what's in the bill? Prohibition of any unions or collective bargaining for most state workers. Those that continue to have any union representation at all will be limited to bargaining for wages only which will have a mandatory limit which will be set annually by the State Legislature. So, basically, the boss will tell you how much you are permitted to ask for.

No collective bargaining over insurance (so employees can be given high deductible junk insurance with no say in the matter), benefits, pensions, holidays or personal days, vacation, working conditions, adequate staffing, class size, worker safety issues, mandatory overtime, shift selection, requests for days off, etc.

If that wasn't bad enough, union dues would no longer be collected through payroll deduction so the unions would have to collect the dues themselves member by member. On top of that, unions would need to recertify every year . This is the same process that is used when employees band together to form a union in the first place; a process already so onerous and difficult (therefore, profitable to the many union-busting firms across this country) that new unions and locals are rarely formed.

Think that's bad? The real hidden horror is that Scott Walker didn't stop with state employees, but extended the impact of the bill to all city, town, village, and county employee in the State of Wisconsin. That's the real reason that thousands of public employees are in Madison. It's why non-public employee unions are supporting us. It's why students, patients, and citizens in general have joined us.

I'm just a retired Milwaukee Country Registered Nurse. My voice doesn't count. Sometimes I wonder if all my activism counts. But my voice and my activism count today as I join with thousands of proud Wisconsinites to protest the rise of a Dictator.

I hope I've educated you to the realities of this bill. Thanks for all the support, comments, and love that we get here. Kossack love is like no otherr.


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/479146/wi_governor%27s_fake_budget_crisis:_gave_tax_breaks_to_wal-mart_to_further_real_agenda_--_union_busting/
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/19/2011 5:43:34 PM
I applaud the Wisconsin Democrats for their action to protect the rights of state workers to be in unions if they choose.
It certainly has seemed to be true for quite a ,long time, that the Republican party in general has such an intense hatred of unions, that they are blind to the fact that without them, there can be no equality between working people and employers. They show no knowledge of history, as someone here mentioned.
Yes, there are some laws on the books now, which had they been in existence long ago, would have reduced the need for some union actions. But unions will ALWAYS be needed, for the simple reason that they present the ONLY way for working people to have any say at all in how they are treated by employers.
There has for a long time now, since Reagan's Presidency at least, been a concerted effort to destroy the power of unions. Reagan kicked things off well by firing the striking Air Traffic Controllers, and the Republicans have continued to do what ever they can to further weaken the ability of NON business owners to have any say whatsoever in how we peasants are to be treated. This isn't because they hate us, it's because they ONLY look at the "business science" side of things, the profit and loss margins, and the mechanics of making money. They have convinced themselves that Capitalism has BUILT IN morality, or at least that morality should be required to give way when it threatens profits .
The Tea Party seems to be all over the place on some of these things. They appear to have things completely wrong when it comes to the situation in Wisconsin, as they see ONLY the possibility that unionized workers might restrict the ability of the government to limit the budget. They seem to be unaware that people who have the right to bargain, are not REQUIRED to demand high wages, but that people who ARE NOT permitted to bargain, can have thoughtlessly low wages, as well as poor working conditions, and horrible business decisions FORCED upon them.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 8
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/20/2011 6:22:52 AM

The real hidden horror is that Scott Walker didn't stop with state employees, but extended the impact of the bill to all city, town, village, and county employee in the State of Wisconsin.


That is a little bit misleading because I believe he is exempting certain workers:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116502363.html

Gov. Scott Walker has exempted police officers, firefighters and state troopers from cuts in his budget-repair bill, saying those in public safety should be treated differently.

So....it's not just conservative media outlets putting a "slant" on things.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 9
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/20/2011 6:49:02 AM
Walker has exempted, for now, the Police and Firemen's unions, most likely in great part as a payback for their contributions to his election campaign.
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110214/APC0101/102140455/Controversy-grows-over-Governor-Scott-Walker-s-union-contract-bill

But, in targeting the other unions, it might be also partially motivated by the ongoing Republican war against women.
http://www.danagoldstein.net/dana_goldstein/2011/02/the-wisconsin-labor-fight-an-attack-on-women-too.html

The Wisconsin GOP's war on public sector unions--except those representing police officers, firefighters, and state troopers--is not only a craven attack on the Democratic base, but sexist, too, since predominantly male professions are deliberately protected while female ones are targeted.

About 80 percent of American teachers, for example, are female; at the elementary school level, nearly 90 percent are women. Nursing is 95 percent female. Nationwide, the majority of public sector union members, represented by AFSCME and other groups, are women.

Meanwhile, over 70 percent of law enforcement workers in the United States are men. Our firefighting ranks are 96 percent male and over half of all professional firefighting departments have never hired a woman.


Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:

South Carolina: 50th
North Carolina: 49th
Georgia: 48th
...Texas: 47th
Virginia: 44th

If you are wondering, Wisconsin, with it's collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd in the country.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 10
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 10:16:38 AM
Baggers Plans To Infiltrate

Our goal is to make the gathering look as greedy and goonish as we know that it is, ding their credibility with the media and exploit the lazy reporters who just want dramatic shots and outrageous quotes for headlines. Even if it becomes known that we are plants the quotes and pictures will linger as defacto truth.

Here is what baggers are telling other baggers to do:

Here is what I am doing in Sacramento, where they are holding a 5:30 PM event this coming Tuesday:

(1) I signed up as an organizer

(2) with any luck they will contact me and I will have an “in”

(3) in or not I will be there and am asking as many other people as can get there to come with, all of us in SEIU shirts (those who don’t have them we can possibly buy some from vendors likely to be there)

(4) we are going to target the many TV cameras and reporters looking for comments from the members there

(5) we will approach the cameras to make good pictures… signs under our shirts that say things like “screw the taxpayer!” and “you OWE me!” to be pulled out for the camera (timing is important because the signs will be taken away from us)

(6) we will echo those slogans in angry sounding tones to the cameras and the reporters.

(7) if I do get the ‘in’ I am going to do my darnedest to get podium access and take the mic to do that rant from there…with any luck and if I can manage the moments to build up to it, I can probably get a cheer out of the crowd for something extreme.

Our goal is to make the gathering look as greedy and goonish as we know that it is, ding their credibility with the media and exploit the lazy reporters who just want dramatic shots and outrageous quotes for headlines. Even if it becomes known that we are plants the quotes and pictures will linger as defacto truth.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/20/947672/-Baggers-Plans-To-Infiltrate

http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topics/get-ready-seius-purple-army
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 11
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 10:54:13 AM
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jessielidbury/gGMblm?override_wrapper_id=Iw3h4&state=WI&source=BOF

I find this much more troubling than anything posted by a right wing web site...this is from the Presidents own campaign website...

There is no difference between this and what the Liberals have done in shipping people from all over the US to be seen on Camera in Wisconsin, I think the Children are a bit much though..
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 12
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 11:27:33 AM
I find this much more troubling than anything posted by a right wing web site...this is from the Presidents own campaign website...

There is no difference between this and what the Liberals have done in shipping people from all over the US to be seen on Camera in Wisconsin, I think the Children are a bit much though..

So... In your mind, having people from far and wide come to openly support you is WORSE than using deceit and deception by disguising yourself as a supporter in order to slander them with lies...?

With such attitudes it is no wonder America is going down the political sh*thole...
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 13
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 11:40:44 AM
Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:

South Carolina: 50th
North Carolina: 49th
Georgia: 48th
...Texas: 47th
Virginia: 44th

If you are wondering, Wisconsin, with it's collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd in the country.


This is a VERY interesting stat. I would like to read more on it. Could you please cite your source?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 14
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 4:12:59 PM

This is a VERY interesting stat. I would like to read more on it. Could you please cite your source?

The stats were all over the blogosphere this weekend. As far as I can tell, they were taken from 1999. Here are the 2010 SAT rankings, with some of those states, still toward the bottom.
http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/2010-sat-scores-by-state.

Here's the truthometer take on the stats with some more links.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/sep/02/randi-weingarten/randi-weingarten-says-students-strong-union-states/
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 15
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 4:37:59 PM
HardwoodFloorboard...
Just because you might be getting screwed over by your employer or if you are self employed, your officials, please don't blame the union employees for fighting for a living wage and decent benefits. You could/should be joining the unions and getting these too if you'd demand your rights to a decent living. With this attitude and this ignorance (in blaming the unions for your governments (read, corporations) controlling agenda), you are falling for their divide and conquer scheme and keeping all working Americans poor. Oh yeah, and if you don't like unions...create something better.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 16
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 6:13:39 PM
From a neighbours perspective, I've worked in union and non-union environments, both have advantages and pitfalls. In the union I saw people who abused it by being lazy, using sick days as extra holidays, limiting hours for part-time people or get all the overtime available and the constant wanting of more. I've seen unions who helped get the employees benefits/wages and better working conditions and I've worked in non-union places where my bosses were great and we enjoyed working for them and made a good and safe living. It should be the choice of the people if they want a union in the workplace and not be decised by a government body that just wants more power and control or for some political agenda.

It is truely scary that people are trying to sabotage this protest for their own political agenda, we all have the right to voice our opinions even if someone else does not agree with them without having this nonsense going on.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 17
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 7:09:28 PM
When I lived there as a lad, we had to unionize over worker safety issues. Injury and mortality rates were high and nothing was getting fixed until we organized and our demand were met. Prior to that, anyone who complained was fired.

For all those who whine about union wages in the public sector...
http://www.businessinsider.com/wisconsin-public-sector-wages-2011-2

Walker, in his first two months, created his deficit by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest Wisconsinites, and Corporations. 66% of corporations in Wisconsin pay no taxes, a trend similar to the rest of the nation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812

Meanwhile, back in Germany, things are quite different.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8321967.stm
Rich Germans demand higher taxes

Germany could raise 100bn euros with the wealth tax, say the petitioners
A group of rich Germans has launched a petition calling for the government to make wealthy people pay higher taxes.

The group say they have more money than they need, and the extra revenue could fund economic and social programmes to aid Germany's economic recovery.

Germany could raise 100bn euros (£91bn) if the richest people paid a 5% wealth tax for two years, they say.

The petition has 44 signatories so far, and will be presented to newly re-elected Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The group say the financial crisis is leading to an increase in unemployment, poverty and social inequality.

Simply donating money to deal with the problems is not enough, they want a change in the whole approach.

"The path out of the crisis must be paved with massive investment in ecology, education and social justice," they say in the petition.

Those who had "made a fortune through inheritance, hard work, hard-working, successful entrepreneurship, or investment" should contribute by paying more to alleviate the crisis. "


 ferfoxache
Joined: 2/4/2011
Msg: 18
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/21/2011 9:19:06 PM
This source

For all those who whine about union wages in the public sector...
http://www.businessinsider.com/wisconsin-public-sector-wages-2011-2

Isn't very good. It's not very clear so it can be picked apart easily.
Something like
http://www.slge.org/vertical/Sites/%7BA260E1DF-5AEE-459D-84C4-876EFE1E4032%7D/uploads/%7B03E820E8-F0F9-472F-98E2-F0AE1166D116%7D.PDF
would be more appropriate IMO.


Walker, in his first two months, created his deficit by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest Wisconsinites, and Corporations. 66% of corporations in Wisconsin pay no taxes, a trend similar to the rest of the nation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812

It says a percentage of corporations pay no federal income taxes. Not "no" taxes at all.
The article also doesn't say whether some of the corporations are, say, S type corporations (I think they are still the most common type of corporation) that aren't required to pay income taxes because the shareholders get the privilege, so are in fact avoiding double taxation, so the corp doesn't pay income taxes...but the shareholders do.

Not to mention the article fails to mention if the foreign companies doing business in the U.S. are paying local (foreign to us) government income taxes rather than U.S. income taxes. IMO it's unclear if they mean "federal" as any government, or "federal" as in "U.S. federal" since they make it a point to say they are doing business here (in the U.S.).

This article doesn't prove anything about Walker or Wisconsin deficits, and mentions nothing about Walker giving tax breaks, or anything about Wisconsin corporations not paying taxes.
As the article is about Federal income taxes, not state taxes.

You notice in the German source you quote that the rich people are kind of telling the government what it should do with the money it may receive?

I mean

the extra revenue could fund economic and social programmes to aid Germany's economic recovery... Simply donating money to deal with the problems is not enough, they want a change in the whole approach..."The path out of the crisis must be paved with massive investment in ecology, education and social justice,"

Isn't that basically lobbying?
"We'll give you some money, this is what we want to see happen."

And you really see that as significantly different than here?
Especially when the article says

there were 2.2 million people in Germany with a fortune of more than 500,000 euros...The petition has 44 signatories so far

2,200,000 rich people
44 signers for extra taxes, telling the government what to do with the money.

Isn't that kind of like Buffet and the Gates seeking billionaires to give up half their fortunes?
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 19
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History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 5:03:47 AM

Here's the truthometer take on the stats with some more links.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/sep/02/randi-weingarten/randi-weingarten-says-students-strong-union-states/


"On its face, it's true," Rotherham said of Weingarten's claim. "Massachusetts (a strong union state) does better than Virginia or Alabama. What it ignores is all of the things that influence student achievement."

"It's a classic correlation-causation fallacy," said Rotherham, who previously served at the White House as Special Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy during the Clinton administration.

Ultimately, he said, research is mixed and there is no study that can definitively settle whether unions are, or are not, the problem with student achievement.

"Sweeping statements one way or the other on this should be viewed with suspicion," Rotherham said.

We agree. Weingarten's claim that states that have lots of teachers in teacher unions tend to be the states that have done the best in terms of academic success is perhaps technically correct -- at least by some measures. But the empirical scientific research on this subject is -- in the words of Burroughs -- "limited, ambiguous and incomplete." Further, there is even less evidence to support the implication that strong unionization is the cause for one state performing better than another. And so we rate Weingarten's claim Half True.


Above is the summary for the link provided.
 4rumninja
Joined: 11/30/2009
Msg: 20
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 5:18:43 AM
Ok ....I read the actual Bill...(Ihttp://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdfI)

****This bill limits the right to collectively bargain for all
employees who are not public safety employees (general employees) to the subject of
base wages. In addition, unless a referendum authorizes a greater increase, any
general employee who is part of a collective bargaining unit is limited to bargaining
over a percentage of total base wages increase that is no greater than the percentage
change in the consumer price index. This bill also prohibits municipal employers
from collectively bargaining with municipal general employees in matters that are
not permitted under MERA.

I think this one may be the main issue driving the Unions anti-bill movement...

*****this bill prohibits the salary
deductions for labor organization dues. This bill also allows a general employee to
refrain from paying dues and remain a member of a collective bargaining unit.

This bill authorizes a state agency to discharge any state
employee who fails to report to work as scheduled for any three unexcused working
days during a state of emergency or who participates in a strike, work stoppage,
sit−down, stay−in, slowdown, or other concerted activities to interrupt the of
operations or services of state government, including specifically purported mass
resignations or sick calls. Under the bill, engaging in any of these actions constitutes
just cause for discharge

Under current law, state employees become participating employees in the
WRS if they are expected to work at least one−third of what is considered full−time
employment by the Department of Employee Trust Funds (DETF) and have an
expected duration of employment of one year or more. This bill prohibits limited term appointments from participating in the WRS, as well as prohibits these employees from receiving health insurance underthe GIB program.various compensation plans.

This bill provides that the employer may not pay more than 88 percent of the
average premium cost of plans offered in the tier with the lowest employee premium
cost. For employees who work less than 1,566 hours a year, with exceptions, the
employer must pay an amount determined by the director of OSER. Under the bill,
the actual employer and employee share...

Are these the real reasons the Unions are so upset about this legislation?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 21
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 6:27:50 AM

Are these the real reasons the Unions are so upset about this legislation?



Probably has more to do with this:


16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state-owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).


Walker's budget—and his intention—goes well beyond crippling public employees' unions. He's selling the state to the highest bidder (or more like it, the largest campaign contributor, since bids won't be required for the acquisition of state assets). The new slogan: What's good for the Koch brothers is good for Wisconsin. Breaking the back of labor is one part of that end goal, but not the whole of it.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/21/947954/-The-other-part-of-the-Scott-Walker-plan:-Firesale-of-Wisconsin-state-assets
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 22
view profile
History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 8:49:49 AM

Are these the real reasons the Unions are so upset about this legislation?

Probably has more to do with this:

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state-owned heating, cooling, and power plants.


While you may find that disturbing, I seriously doubt that is what the Unions are concerned with at the moment.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 23
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 1:54:37 PM
While you may find that disturbing, I seriously doubt that is what the Unions are concerned with at the moment.

I am sure it is not just me that finds it disturbing that a clause like that would be put into a bill and when you consider who would benefit from a clause like that and who also gave a large sum of money to the person who put this in, then you see the bigger picture of corruption.


This is all about a governor who took over a state that was projected to have a budget surplus, until he decided to give all that money away as corporate tax cuts.

The unions are not responsible for this mess, they are just being used as space goats.

With the exception of the unions that supported the governor during the last election as they somehow are except from this legislation.


Now maybe more people will see that the Tea Party was created by corporate america to look out for their best interests.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 24
view profile
History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/22/2011 2:33:59 PM

they are just being used as space goats.


Ok, Frank. I'm not making fun of you here...I hope you have a sense of humor. It's time for some levity.

I'm not sure how anyone would use a space goat. There is not much to graze on out there.

I'm know that you meant scape goat.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 25
view profile
History
On Wisconsin.
Posted: 2/23/2011 1:14:33 PM
I doubt they will be getting paid, they will probably get hauled in and have to account for themselves. They might be lucky to keep their jobs. As for polictical insiders, some probably are, most not, at least in my experience.
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