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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.      Home login  
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 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 2
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.Page 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
i say he was in his rights.......were the coin to be reversed....he wouldnt have had a choice about paying support

it takes 2 to make a baby.it should take the same 2 to make a decision like that
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 3
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/6/2011 6:44:00 PM
i don't know about new mexico law, but it seems to me that, unless he can prove beyone the shadow of a doubt that he has written the truth, it could constitute libel.

did he identify her by name? that could make a difference too. if he didn't name her, he may be ok.

either way, i bet it will be a long, long time before he gets a date with anyone.
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 5
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/6/2011 7:03:21 PM
Wow!

That is one hell of a controversy.
Beyond the legalities of the situation ... who is right?

Has the law not stated that it is a woman's body, therefor she has the right to make the choice?
Therefor she can choose to abort.
I don't believe a man has the right to stop a woman from aborting, as the woman has the final choice.
Legally ... is that not the way it is?

I also understand that a man must accept financial responsibility if the child is his.

Very skewed thinking.

So I see it as ...
The child has no right.
The woman has all the right.
The man has no right.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 12
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:32:57 PM

The man has the right to wear a condom. My guess is he decided to pass on that.

While it's true that a woman can decide to abort or not, it is important that men realize their responsibility in the baby making process and not whine later with the outcome.


I guess the question is, did they talk about the possibility of having a kid before hand. I guess they didn't. I guess (given his bilboard level of p'ssed off) the guy was willing to be responsible for the kid (perhaps even planned for and wanted the kid) while apparently (unless she had a miscarriage) the woman was not and did not. And you're saying it's the guy who needs to realize his responsibility?
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 13
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:36:33 PM
This is the town on the other side of the mountains from where I live, it's a fairly small Air Force town. So I'm sure everyone knows who it is, but I don't. I have heard that she was only 19, don't know if that's a fact or not.

But while life isn't fair, a man who wants a baby doesn't carry the baby and a woman should always have the right to want to be pregnant or not. It sucks but this guy doesn't sound like anyone to have a baby with, he does come off as a jerk, from what little is known.

If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant, if you want one, make damn sure the other person does too. When a true accidentally pregnancy happens, very uncommon, then it' a decision that should be made between the couple, but in the end, only one is psychically pregnant and that person gets the last word. Sometimes things in life are harsh and the consequences are painful.

If this girl is indeed only 19, I don't think much of a 35 year old man getting her pregnant then hounding her like this. A teenager is a kid, you can't expect her to be mature or ready to be pregnant. Again, I don't really know if that's her age, it's just what I heard. Her side is saying she had a miscarriage and he's just trying to get attention, again just rumor.

I don't know where she got the abortion, if indeed she had one, but she could have easily gone to Mexico to get one, Alamogordo is close to the border. I don't know what Texas abortion law is but it's close to Texas also.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 14
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 3:09:36 AM
There is no " Right to Life " for anyone at anytime. We could, any of us die a horrible death at anytime, fair or not.

There is no guarantee that any pregnancy will result in a live birth.

"This Would Have Been A Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To Not KILL Our Child!"

I suppose he went into the future 2 years to get that picture ?
This is purely a matter of speculation on his part. And, pretty mean spirited speculation at that.

Suppose your neighbor put a sign on his front lawn.... " MURDERER -----> ", pointing at your house.
Would he have a right to free speech, since he doesn't name you specifically ?

It doesn't matter that he doesn't give her name. All their friends and family know who he's talking about and that's what matters.
Slanderous speech is when someone says something designed to make another person less in the eyes of their peers. You can not publicly call someone a murderer or rapist or child molester or bank robber or any other disreputable thing . Even if it's true.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 15
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 3:48:05 AM

sure you can, the courts and the media call people murderers and rapists and child molesters all all the time. it has to be true, though. you can't just make it up because you were pissed off.


If you read closely you'll notice they don't.
Newspapers will only say, " so-n-so was arrested as a suspect to robbery ", or " so-n-so was convicted by jury of murder ".
Newspapers never directly call a person a murderer or anything else which might be slanderous or libelous.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 16
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 3:49:50 AM
He can say whatever he wants about how an abortion/miscarriage affected his life being it was his child.

Celebreties have people sell this type of news everyday to media and 'simple' folks eat it up. Maybe if enough 'simple' folk speak up about this type of 'reporting' it will stop for celebreties as well,. because frankly Im sick of personal issues between people being made into 'the news'. It's a slippery slope-if the masses buy these stories about the stars then why cant we also have stories about 'real' people?

Is he coming off as classless for doing it? Yes, but something tells me he doesnt care about hs wn image in all of this. He has a right to say whatever he wants about things that affect him...and this did.

Many think they have the right to privacy, but my word, open any gossip magazine and try to say anyone has the right to privacy. If the super rich cannot pay for the right to privacy, what makes any of us think as 'poor' folk we have any right to privacy? The assumption that no one would care about our 'news'?
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 18
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 5:31:09 AM
How does he know the child was his?

Maybe he was not the only guy she was sleepin with.

Just sayin.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 22
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 6:20:10 AM

if he didn't implicate her by name (or face), then he didn't violate her privacy...therefore she does not (or should not) have a case.


bingo. initially, i figured the guy had named her at some point on the billboard. but, seeing as how that's not the case, she really has no gripe.


if she decided to expose herself on her own in the aftermath, then its not his fault for revealing her own identity.....besides, he could very well say that it wasn't her that he was referring to!


exactly. if she outs herself, she has only herself to blame. she could chalk it up as a learning experience and not get herself into that situation again. or she could throw a fit, initiate litigation, lose the case, rack up bills and spend years whining about it. it all depends on how much attention she wants.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 23
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 7:05:16 AM

Can we say total and utter double standard little boys and girls?


Total and utter double standard.


You can not publicly call someone a murderer or rapist or child molester or bank robber or any other disreputable thing . Even if it's true


In some places, the cops even go around and tell everybody that a sex offender is moving into your 'hood.


This isn't like "oh my god, I didn't realize she could have an abortion if she got pregnant


But in this thread, the guy is the one being called the irresponsible, douche. In this case, I'd place that title on the woman if she knew what she was doing, had a decent guy willing to take the kid and didn't miscarry. I'll agree all day long that she gets the final word in what happens. But that doesn't mean she gets a free pass on being a) irresponsible or b) a douche.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 25
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 7:40:57 AM
I definitely agree men get the short end of the stick in situations like this - women can say you WILL be a father - or you will NOT. I don't see any equitable way to deal with it, I mean really what can be done, force someone to have a baby? Or not have it?

As to the billboard, I think that was an awfully ODD thing to do...but since she wasn't named, I don't understand why there was a lawsuit.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 31
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 8:58:52 AM
The jilted and ex part probably has alot to do with this story, thou nasty he does have a right to put up the billboard up if he doesn't name the woman, if I was her I wouldn't have gotten a lawyer and made a big deal about it, over and done with and move on. We have no idea why this woman didn't want this guy's child or if it was a miscarriage, we don't know if he really did want the kid or maybe he did, could have been a horrible relationship and the woman wanted no ties, who knows, it's just a sad situation.
Unfortunately it's never going to be 100% fair since only one person carries the child, I've seen men get taken by women who want money, a holdover the guy and be supported by having a child. I also have had friends left alone with a child with no support because the guy didn't want the responsibilty anymore and just took off, this happened enough in society that they brought in laws to garnish wages of deadbeat dads, the bad thing it also can punish the good guys too. This is where we have to teach young men to protect themselves, use your own protection, don't rely on the woman only because no birth control is 100% effective, because it's to late after you have an unwanted pregnancy.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 32
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 10:28:56 AM
How does he know she was pregnant with his baby?

What if she was pregnant with some other man's baby?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 34
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 10:41:39 AM
First, the statement in post #11 about the law on abortion is not true.

When billboards bring up First Amendment issues, it's usually because they contain commercial speech. But I don't see any constitutional issue here. It's certainly not commercial speech. The constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech also makes it harder for public figures to be defamed, especially where public issues are involved. But that's not the case here. She's just suing for invasion of privacy, which is a tort, and "harassment," however New Mexico law may define that.

It's not obvious that the billboard identifies her clearly enough to invade her privacy. But if it shows his picture, even without his name, and it also refers to her as "the mother" of "our child," that's probably enough. The mother of that child can only be one person. And he doesn't seem to dispute that--he's just claiming the statement about her is true.

Invasion of privacy consists of publicly disclosing private information about someone, if the information is something a reasonable person would object to having made public. It's pretty obvious this wasn't a matter of public record, and that it's something most people wouldn't want publicly known about them.

She'd also have show that placing the billboard display directly caused the damages she's suffered, but that seems pretty clear. And if she can show these other things happened, she won't need to prove she suffered mental and emotional distress--those damages will be presumed.

His problem here is that truth isn't a good defense for invasion of privacy, as it would be if this were ordinary defamation, e.g. libel. And even if he had good intentions, that wouldn't help him either. Unless New Mexico on this tort is unusual in some way, I think she's likely to win.

If his lawyer were a woman, it might help him with female jurors. It's sometimes worked that way for defendants charged with rape.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 36
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 11:19:14 AM
The issue of libel and slander are matters of defamation of character, not necessarily matters of fact. Any statement which defames a persons reputation, character, or causes that person public shame or loss of income is libelous or slanderous, depending if it was written or spoken. Even if it's true.

" So-n-so is a child molester ", is a libelous statement.
" So-n-so was convicted of child molestation ", is not a libelous statement.
The 1st statement is pure conjecture or hearsay, with no proof of truth.
The 2nd is a statement of fact and public record.

You might know that so-n-so molests children, but unless you can prove it in court it's still libelous. If you don't prove it in court, if there is no conviction ( even if all the angels in heaven testify against him ), you can be sued for libel.

Good journalists are very careful about what they say about people.
" The 1st National Bank was robbed at 1pm Tuesday . What's-his-name was arrested on suspicion of robbery ".
That's not libelous. There's no direct written connection between him and the robbery.

" What's-his-name robbed the 1st National Bank at 1pm Tuesday ", is libelous.
" What's-his-name was convicted of robbery on Wednesday", is not libelous.

If a newspaper prints a statement that What's-his-name robbed a bank before the conviction, that's still libelous. Even if it turns out he really did it. The intent was to defame the character of What's-his-name, not establish a fact.

Read newspapers carefully and you'll notice they all follow these ethical standards.
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 38
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 11:53:57 AM
theres been a lot of talk about how the guy shoulda wore a condom.........ok.....i'll agree with that.....but they also make female condoms............so that particular arguement is rather moot.........fact is that if 2 people decide to have sex.....protection is a shared responsibility.........matter of fact.....the woman has quite a few more choices in that dept then we men do


i know this is liable to open a huge can of worms.......but how would you folks who claim that abortion is soley the womans decision and right............how would you feel if the courts in this country decided to give men the right to decide....without the womans imput.........that hes gonna abort himself from the childs life...........he signs a legal paper any time before the 8th month of pregnacy that hes decided he doesnt want the baby and offically no longer has anything to do with it and bears no responsibility..........................i doubt anyone is gonna like that concept
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 39
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 12:01:25 PM
Oh please, life isn't fair, and it isn't even when someone gets pregnant. If men carried the babies then men would be the ones with the option to abort or not and all the whining would be on the opposite side. But that fact is it's the females who get pregnant, birth control works on both genders, if you don't want a baby, don't get or don't get someone pregnant.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 42
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 12:52:20 PM
His billboard should read:

I'm the azzhole who didn't wear a condom!
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 46
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 3:28:59 PM

"The mother" could be a reference to whomever he might have impregnated.


Technically, that's true. But in this context, it's reasonable to expect that the identity of the mother would come out, even if she hadn't sued. His lawyer may argue that he wasn't referring to anyone whose identity was likely to become public knowledge, but that could be hard to sell.


Any statement which defames a persons reputation, character, or causes that person public shame or loss of income is libelous or slanderous, depending if it was written or spoken. Even if it's true.


Once again, that statement's not accurate. To make a prima facie case for defamation, the plaintiff has to prove the defendant used defamatory language; that it was "of or concerning the plaintiff;" that the language was published to a third person; and that it damaged the plaintiff's reputation.

Those are just the four elements the plaintiff has to prove. For each one, there are legal rules which determine IF the language was defamatory, was "of or concerning" the plaintiff, was published, and damaged the plaintiff's reputation.

In cases where the concern is purely private, the defendant WILL usually have a complete defense if he can show the defamatory statement is true. The defendant may still be liable even if his defamatory statement is true, but only if it's made under circumstances that constitute either of these torts: Intentional infliction of emotional distress; or invasion of privacy.

This suit claims invasion of privacy. That's why he's got a problem (unless New Mexico tort law has some unusual wrinkle here) with basing his defense on the truth of his statement. If she were suing for defamation--whether libel or slander--truth could be an effective defense.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 47
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 5:00:38 PM

I don't see how the woman was an irresponsible douche? You seem to be saying that she was obligated to have the child because someone was willing to look after it?


I just think it's stupid to heap all the blame and responsibility on the guy for what is equally douchie and irresponsible on her part. It doesn't really matter that the guy was willing to take care of the kid. There's always someone willing to adopt an otherwise healthy baby. Would it be irresponsible if she kept doing this over and over...essentially using abortion as birth control? Of course it would. I just think that doing it even once is the same sort of irresponsibility. We all know the consequences. That's just about a perfect definition of irresponsibile. If I want to drink my face off, I have a responsibility to not harm other people. I can't go to court and say I was loaded so I shouldn't be held responsible for driving over someone. Even if you consider a foetus to be just cells and not in anyway viably human, her action has caused at least one other person (likely both people) significant pain.

I always thought it was wierd how some people get so upset over miscarrying a baby. People go to grief counselling for years and never really get over the emmense loss of never knowing their unborn baby. They create memorials, name him/her, talk to them in prayer, etc. But that's just people who actually wanted the kid. I guess if at least one person doesn't want the kid all that grief just disappeares?

She has every right to do it, but just because you have the right to do something doesn't make you a responsible person as some posts seem to indicate. I'm glad she has the right to do it. I'd hate to think of what would happen to the crime rate if people weren't allowed to nuke their kids. But responsible? No.


So much could be avoided with making a better choice about a partner, taking time to get to know them and having a few discussions about birth control and what-if's


That's not true really because these two may have had all the appropriate conversations. We don't really know. It's completely unimportant what kind of relationship they had because the point is a woman can pull the plug at anytime for any reason. So the only way for a guy to completely protect himself from winding up in this situation is to never, ever, under any circumstances, ever have sex with anyone. I can't even tell you how many divorced people I know who say "I never in a million years thought he/she would ever do something like that or turn into such an evil person or would cheat on me, or hit me, etc".
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 48
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/7/2011 5:08:57 PM
they both seem pretty bone-headed.

and i'm glad that, for the time being, neither of them have reproduced. at least not this time.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 50
Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 9:25:01 AM
Well...yanno...with all the options available for bith control...it would seem that both a man and a woman are responsible for creating a baby...and it only takes one of them excercising their option for birth control to prevent a pregnancy (barring some manufacturer defect)...while it takes both of them being irresponsible to create a baby.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 52
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:13:17 AM

Abortion is a womans choice.


This is not exactly on topic, but it's pretty closely related to it.

Whether that quote is true or not, and under what circumstances, is for the majority of voters in each state to determine. They have the right to see their mores carried out in public policy. Whatever I or anyone else may think about abortion, the notion that the U.S. Constitution restricts the states' authority to regulate it is laughable.

When the Court decided Roe v. Wade almost forty years ago, it wasn't judging the meaning of the Constitution. Instead, it was short-circuiting the democratic process by imposing the personal morality of several justices on many millions of Americans. The decision is a real turkey, written by a rookie justice. It's a model of arbitrariness--*nowhere* did the Court explain the reasoning for its conclusion.

In 1973, abortion was illegal in only about 15% of the states. In all the others, including Texas, whose law was being challenged, it was legal under certain conditions. It's unlikely the Court will ever overrule the main holding in Roe--that the Constitution guarantees a right to abortion. If it did, though, nothing would prevent all 50 states from making abortion on demand legal, just as it is now. But in any case, that should be THEIR call.

I don't say that because I oppose abortion, but because I oppose misusing the Constitution to force the views of a strident minority on everyone else. Doing that threatens our freedoms, in the long run, far more than it enhances them in the short run.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 53
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Jilted ex-boyfriend puts up abortion billboard.
Posted: 6/8/2011 10:30:58 AM

Abortion is a woman's choice.

Her body, her life, her choice. She has every right to have one and not be bullied and harassed over it. And since it is a medical procedure, she has the right to privacy.

I absolutely agree !

I am absolutely stunned at how blind people are.
Don't people realize the " Right to Life " movement and radical religious lawmakers are continuously and successfully eroding women's reproductive rights to non-existence ?
Laws are being passed in every state in this country making legal abortions more and more difficult to get. In some states nearly impossible.
And, they don't like contraception any better either.

The " Right to Life " people don't really hate abortions that much.
What they really hate is sex itself.

To them, sex is an unforgivable sin.
The " Right to Life " followers and radical religious view pregnancy and child rearing as punishment for having sex. They wish to mandate by law that every pregnancy be enforceable. Any woman getting pregnant must carry that pregnancy to completion at the risk of her own life without exception.

Abortion and contraception is blasphemy in their eyes and cheats God out of his just punishment upon people who have or even desire sex in any way.

Anyone who still thinks abortion and birth control is a constitutional right needs to take a look again.
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