Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Second Coming of the Great Recession?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 1
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Things in the world are pointing to the Second Coming of the Great Recession. Anyone hear any news to the second coming? With all the unrest in Greece, and in Europe. The business downturn in Japan because of a natural, and man made disaster.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 2
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/17/2011 9:32:21 PM
The great recession never ended.
The interlude phase is over though.

None of the underlying problems were ever dealt with.
I mean private debt. not public.
Most big banks worldwide are insolvent.

Everything was just papered over.
Govt spending and Fed easing kept things going.
But that's ending and the really big issues are still here and really hitting the fan.

Primarily.....that the private sector debt can't be paid.
The plan was that given enuff time, govt support, and GDP growth
the banks would recapitalize and slowly write off bad debt.

They didn't.
and can't.

So who get's stuck with it?

The next phase will be called the Great Renegotiation.
In which that sticky issue gets ironed out.

Will Bankers take the hit?
Or you?

How will 60 to 200 trillion of private bunk debt be
absorbed or absolved?

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/mirabile-dictu-central-bankers-getting-concerned-about-bank-capital-levels-rather-late-in-the-reform-game.html

' ….these losses are multiples of the static costs, lying anywhere between one and
five times annual GDP. Put in money terms, that is an output loss equivalent to between $60 trillion and $200 trillion for the world economy and between £1.8 trillion and £7.4 trillion for the UK. As Nobel-prize winning physicist Richard Feynman observed, to call these numbers “astronomical” would be to do astronomy a disservice: there are only hundreds of billions of stars in the galaxy. “Economical” might be a better description.

It is clear that banks would not have deep enough pockets to foot this bill. Assuming that a crisis occurs every 20 years, the systemic levy needed to recoup these crisis costs would be in excess of $1.5 trillion per year. The total market capitalisation of the largest global banks is currently only around $1.2 trillion. Fully internalising the output costs of financial crises would risk putting banks on the same trajectory as the dinosaurs, with the levy playing the role of the meteorite.'



 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 3
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 12:56:26 AM
REM made a song titled "its the end of the world as we know it" and that is so true.

Until the population is decreased what we have seen in the last few years in only a taste , we can no longer expand as we once did, we can no longer feed or house as we once did and we can no longer employ as we once did and we can no longer go to war to allievate this issues as we once did.

Learn how to hunt, grow, protect, nurish and educate would be your best bet or at least teaching your to kids to and not rely on being supplied and protected by a system that is on the brink.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 1:48:56 AM
This is all you need to know.
The great song " Sixteen Tons ".



Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you
Then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 5
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 3:33:22 AM
Or maybe we should call it closer to the second great depression, what a mess out there in the world, it is truly frightening how high the US debt is, trillions, who would have conceived of that years ago. Compounded on the recession is the number of natural disasters/droughts/flooding in food producing areas of the world increasing food prices, then the prices of gas and oil, I know alot of people who are just getting by now.
The sad part is so much time and resources are being wasted on political posturing/agendas instead of trying to fix the problems of the country and trying to generate new technology fields to create new employment opportunities, to many are stuck in the past, we need some visionaries to rejuvinate the economy and look at countries who are doing well and see how they do things and try to adapt those policies.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 6
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 8:32:13 AM
I don't know. It's so hard to know what the heck is REALLY going on, because even, or rather ESPECIALLY among those in positions of power, how the money gets counted varies from place to place, day to day, and hidden goal by hidden goal.

Top off the lies, obfuscations, political twistings, and fundamental differences of opinion over what the hell "real value" actually means, with a reporting/news system that rewards enticement and dread over and above factuality, and you've got a formula for disaster STORIES, certainly.

So are we actually in trouble? I really have no idea, myself. I'm fearful too, but since it's been reported that 75% of the SAVINGS that our U.S. congress voted through for our expenditures were actually not "real," I wonder just as much, how much of the DEBT is "real." If a debt gets written off, the only thing I'm SURE has happened, is that the nimrod investor institutions that paid commissions to the people who gave the "loans" ripped themselves off. What was loaned for/against still exists, unless it was a loan to buy more bad loans.

When we went through messes in the past, I heard horror stories saying "be afraid! The dollar is too strong!", and a few years later, hearing "Be afraid! The dollar is too weak!" I couldn't see much difference in life in either situation.

All in all, I think the main thing I'll be watching out for, are all the rich, and wanna be rich folks who will be trying to capitalize on both the fear, and on the tricks being proposed to "fix" things. That, and the usual list of suspects who don't want a piece of the cash action, but want us to hand a blank check for POWER over to them, so that they can do all manner of things they want to do without anyone asking any questions.

This is the BIGGEST problem that such crisis' present us with: just as we were RUSHED into war in Iraq, entirely on the claim that "we can't tell you how we know, but we know that they present a clear and present danger to the US," there WILL be a bunch of right and left wing swine, lined up to try to get us to hand the keys to our lives over to them, on the grounds that "we know what we're doing, you lot all go home and send in your money."
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 9:46:10 AM
May I interject... Until dishonesty, and deceit can be curtailed, we are living in a world of sh*t. It's the politicians who took the lead from the evil banking institutions. If we can't keep our elected officials in check, how can we expect to keep a hold on big banking, and business [WallStreet]. This country is the "New Roman Empire". Anyone remember what happened to the last Roman Empire? It seems they became too Christian in the end. But it was too late for them. Does this sound familiar?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 8
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 10:05:09 AM
spot on casper and igorf

we are fed constant nonsense by our 'leaders'.

one min you get a $1.50 to the £1 then next week its $1.25. no explanation why? it just happens lol

the royal bank of scotland here in the uk gets the vast majority of the blame for the collapse (rightly so) and something to do with taking on toxic debt in the states.

europe is in turmoil with countries going bankrupt. thankfully the uk never went into the eurozone but for some reason us taxpayers in the uk have to bail out the countries going bust.

we have a bloated public sector (1 in 4 jobs in scotland are in the public sector) and a private sector that is going down the tubes. pension crises everywhere and being told that we need to work into our 70's in the private sector and a proposed 66 in the public sector.

discontent everywhere. wages being driven down, better tax breaks to multi nationals who hide the money rather than pay the tax thats due.

maybe a total collapse is needed? get folks thinking straight again. and a new breed of politician who wants to help the ordinary working folk and not the greed is good rodents.

the global economy is i think on its last legs. the uk has virtually no manufacturing base left. even the call centres are going abroad lol

we hav 2.5 million or there about unemplyed in the uk. but add to that all the government schemes which make your wages up if you are on low income and i would say double that figure of 2.5 million.

all the so called 'tiger' economys seem to be built on cheap labour and inhuman working conditions. the nature of the beast says that they will collapse one day as well.

interesting times ahead folks. batten down the hatches and prepare to be just as bewildered as we all are now lol

toodle pip
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 11:02:43 AM

Members of Congress Get Abnormally High Returns From Their Stocks


GREED is alive and well. With the way things are going, and the way technology is progressing.... I believe we might see a "TERMINATOR" world approaching. Wouldn't be no surprise to me.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 3:15:11 PM
History is full of examples of either people who are IN power, using it to benefit themselves privately, or people with lots of existing private wealth, using it to buy the support of those in power. It's human nature.

What I advocate, is self-education, that starts with TRYING to teach yourself to think independently.

It requires a great deal more effort for each person to learn to even recognize how dependent they are on BIASED sources for information that they make important decisions on, than most realize. And recognizing that a source IS biased, is only half the job done: just because your source is a devout liberal, or a born-again conservative, doesn't mean that everything they say is false, or (if they happen to be on your side) that they are wonderful folks trying to help you out.

Actually, a Terminator world (with me sleeping in a tube of goo, hooked up to an internet fantasy, acting as a battery) sounds like a nice retirement community. Anyone working on setting one up?
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 4:45:39 PM

It's going to rake each American, working and saving and supporing family and being more idealistic to stay afloat and come up with ideas to make it through IMO.


Maybe they don't want people to live as long as we are living today. Maybe keeping a person alive longer was a mistake, because the cost entailed is way over the top. Sounds a lot like "Logan's Run". They wanted only people 39 years old, and below to survive. Anyone older was considered spam.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 8:04:01 PM
Among many things that make this all so tricky from my point of view, is that once the decision is made to start cutting government spending and following a budget (even if one completely ignores the obfuscations of it all by the politicians), is the TIMING and SEQUENCE of the cuts.

In my own life, I know that I can't simply cut a flat percentage out of my own budget when times are hard. That ignores that there are somethings that are more important than others, and some things that actually require INCREASED spending on in tough times. The current powerful people who are advocating the toughest cutting, haven't given any indication that I can see, that they understand this, and that worries me. All the politicians who are advocating more cuts, are protecting those things that they benefit from, or that their supporters do. For example, I was just reading elsewhere here that this guy Ryan who has garnered lots of attention for demanding more draconian budget cuts, especially in programs for the common folks, nevertheless still supports tax breaks for oil companies. He benefits directly from them.

Another thing I would REALLY like to know for sure (if possible), is who is right about the various government bailouts and so forth that have been in recent events. I've heard a number of reports to the effect that almost all of the free loans to private institutions have already been paid back. If that IS the case, why are we still hearing all this talk about how horrible it's been for the budget that they were made to begin with? I understand someone having a philosophical problem with not letting large private corporations fail in a "natural" fashion, though I have problems with THAT as well, since a number of the ones that were in danger, were NOT in danger because they screwed up within their own areas of expertise, but rather were put into jeopardy by the games being played in the derivatives/investments markets. The damage that would have resulted would have fallen more on the peasantry than on the people who caused the demise. It rather strikes me as wanting to let our ENTIRE house fall down, because we messed up and allowed the garage roof to leak for too long. At the same time, I don't care for the notion that a corporate entity or wealthy individual can hold the rest of us hostage, simply because they are BIG AND FINANCIALLY CARELESS.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 13
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 10:07:54 PM
Maybe they don't want people to live as long as we are living today. Maybe keeping a person alive longer was a mistake, because the cost entailed is way over the top. Sounds a lot like "Logan's Run". They wanted only people 39 years old, and below to survive. Anyone older was considered spam


Its interesting that just this week several billion has been donated to african charties so they can adminster vaccines for several ailments that effect the death rates. Interesting again that Great britian donated .7 % of GDP to this cause yet the unemployment levels are high and recently alot of uni fees rose to apoint most can't afford with any quality of life while studying (unless mummy and daddy are rich)

The reasoning behind this is they want to turn these african comunities yet to be a consumer driven economy into one, the more kids survive the more ipods and shit they might sell, the more fighting there may be which wil require more arms and so on.....most other places are all progressioned out, except Africa.

Yet the worlds population has already passed tipping point,
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/18/2011 11:48:55 PM

Yet the worlds population has already passed tipping point,


It just passed 7 Billion. Where will they keep these people? How will they clothe them? How will they feed them? There seems to be no change in the African continent since the 1980's.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 2:31:16 AM
FrankNStein, very true it isn't a new thing that politicians and big business help each other out and the oil and car companies working together to bury inventions or buy the patent rights to technology that would interfere in their control of the market. I remember hearing how one the first electric cars was scraped due to pressure from oil companies years ago. Lobbists and political contributions give big business and wealthy individuals access to law and policy makers that the average citizen doesn't have, but it is still the average citizen who pays the majority of the taxes to the point that the middle class has been exterminated and we are now left with the rich and working poor. Just who do they think is going to be left to buy anything with all the jobs going to places that have cheap labour, poor safety/health in order to increase profit margins for these corporations.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 16
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 4:16:09 AM

It just passed 7 Billion.
scary.
 VacationGuy234
Joined: 8/1/2008
Msg: 17
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 4:56:58 AM
We are still in a Great Depression so a recession wouldn't have much impact. You can't go by the propaganda that is printed every week on the net and in papers. For example, housing statistics are taken three different ways and every week someone posts a rosy outlook while another post is talking double dip. You can't believe any of this BS. Until interest rates rise and jobs come back it ain't over until it's over and the FEDs know it.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 1:15:47 PM

However, that is not the root cause of the current economic malaise gripping most of the world. For the US, it was a series of stupid moves on the part of politicians who thought that by stroke of a pen they could legislate housing for all, by forcing mortgages to be given to anybody, whether they actually qualified or not.


Say what? What alternate universe are you dealing with? No politicians, Democrat or Republican, legislated or attempted to legislate "housing for all". The bad mortgages were generated by greedy mortgage brokers. No one was forced to give out mortgages, they gave mortgages to people who were not qualified because as long as housing prices went up they could not lose. But if housing prices were to ever go down......
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 19
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 1:27:38 PM
Now for those of you who will say well that is what the US has been doing for the 10 years plus, so why is it not working and why are we now back to levels of income disparity like we saw during the times before the great depression?


And here I thought that after Sept. 2008, they were ready to give the money to the people. We almost had the upstream flow, until they gave the T.A.R.P. to big business, and $787 billion to government projects. See if they gave it to the citizens, people would have spent money. Which in turn would have helped the economy. There's only 311 million in the U.S. If everyone was given a million, it still would have been less then giving it to WallStreet.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 3:21:28 PM
The problem is that people earned that money to begin with. How else does the government get it, without just creating inflation by increasing the supply of money? It's really just redistributing wealth, not creating it. One obvious way to put more money in people's hands is to let them keep more of what they earn.

A temporary moratorium on income tax and on federal environmental regulations, along with opening up oil and coal production, would do a lot to fire up the national economy. So would having a president who is not a Marxist, and as such openly hostile to capitalism and profit. Mr. Obama is, at heart, the most un-American president this country has ever had.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 21
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/20/2011 5:55:07 PM
^^^^I'll think about offering examples when you back up the silly things you've asserted here. It's clear to me you don't know even the ABC's of economics.

I'm sure you know more about "talking points" than I do. If I ever saw one, I didn't recognize it as such. I offered my opinion, based on what I know of Mr. Obama's past associations and statements, and on his actions as president.


Do you not think that you would be creating a bigger problem that a future generation may have to clean up?


Maybe. But the benefit to us now might be far greater than any harm it caused. As someone who's studied and written about federal environmental laws and regulations, I'm convinced we have far too much of it. We could easily relax or eliminate many rules without damaging much of anything. And they are an enormous burden on this economy. But the tens of thousands of employees in the EPA and other administrative agencies involved have to keep up the scare to justify their existence.

Your concern about future generations is misplaced. Nothing is hurting them more than the this administration's economic policies. Obama will be long gone when they have to pay for his pipe dreams with a lower standard of living and oppressive taxes. There's no other way to pay for all these proposals.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/23/2011 1:13:38 PM
You know I'm not a Democrat. But a lot of people are wishing this President fails. If he fails, then we all fail. It doesn't matter what affiliation you are. My country, and the way my country is portrayed in the world is important to me. So everyone can take sides, left, right, center, Democrats, Republicans, conservative, liberals.... Only our children suffer in the end. We all need to be on OUR side, and support what needs to be done as well as help to mold this great country.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Second Coming of the Great Recession?
Posted: 6/23/2011 1:51:02 PM

I agree with others that the GOP's main objective is to make things as bad as they possible can, only to make Obama look worse.


I agree as well. Also, both Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. destroyed this country. Like I said I am not a Democrat, but I agree that Clinton brought us to a surplus... And W. killed it. Not to put any Republicans down for my comments.... I thought Richard Milhaus Nixon was a great President. His foreign policy was his best suit. So he got caught. They are all up to something. JFK was a great president, as well as Ronald Reagan, Yes I know he was an actor.... but he took a down and out country from a peanut farmer, and turned it around.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Second Coming of the Great Recession?