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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?      Home login  
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 Jen_29
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 1
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?Page 1 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
I have looked at many profiles of those “nice guys” who constantly complain about their lack of success on this site. And, I am sorry to say that many of them are good at blaming women for being stupid or shallow but, at the same time, they are not willing to put in the hard work that it takes to become a successful dating candidate.

Yes, you might be nice, but…
…are you educated?
…do you have a career instead of a job?
…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive?
…did you invest the money for a nice haircut?
…have you built healthy social skills?
…have you found your own place to live?
…is that place clean and nicely furnished?
…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)?

I might be picky, but in order to get a reply from me you need to invest many years in your mind, body, soul, and career. Being a nice guy is not enough. I know Americans like instant gratification. But dating success is based on years of working on yourself and not on ten minutes tweaking of your POF profile.
 Jen_29
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 2
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 7:51:35 PM
^^^ but I am not complaining. Have met many great guys on POF.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 3
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:00:28 PM
Well Jen, you forgot one thing Kiddo, many of these nice guys has this " entitlement" thing going on , the assume that because they have all the things you mention it entitles them to the pick of the litter, that why I ask, do you want Cheddar cheese or Brie with that " wine" ( whine)
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 4
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:13:31 PM

And, I am sorry to say that many of them are good at blaming women for being stupid or shallow but, at the same time, they are not willing to put in the hard work that it takes to become a successful dating candidate.


Yes, you might be nice, but…
…are you educated? ( what does this have to do with being nice or a jerk? )
…do you have a career instead of a job? ( so apparently a career is something that is "more than a job? What does this have to do with being nice and or a jerk?)
…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive? ( and women do? Or are you just shallow? )
…did you invest the money for a nice haircut? ( who says my hair is what you prefer? Maybe I like it wild and crazy looking )
…have you built healthy social skills? ( have you? This post should show your judgement skills )
…have you found your own place to live? ( again, what does this have to do with nice or jerk? )
…is that place clean and nicely furnished? ( again, no need to say more )
…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)? ( have you? Let me get you know you and I can pick 1000 flaws if need to be, yet i do not look for that in a person )
 Belle Requin
Joined: 2/17/2007
Msg: 5
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:15:13 PM
This is why sometimes, it's a good thing to get to know people. I certainly don't believe in charity dating, but:

I wouldn't dismiss a guy if he lives with a room mate because maybe he simply likes the company or the financial benefit of sharing living expenses (financially responsible).

I wouldn't dismiss a guy who never took post secondary education, but who has:
spent years abroad with a humanitarian group-
learned a trade through years of experience-
made a fortune in real estate without even graduating highschool.

I wouldn't dismiss a guy who takes pride in his appearance, and lives a healthy life without spending hours devoted to himself in the gym (I'll never date another gym rat ever again).

I wouldn't dismiss a guy who's home is sparse and lacking decoration- in fact, it's a bonus, because it means should we ever live together, clearly, I get to make the decorating decisions and don't need to get rid of my furniture.

And I wouldn't dismiss a guy who's working 'a job' because he was a little late in sorting out what he wants to do for a living, and is working that well paying 'job' and maybe sharing those living expenses so he can take the courses he wants for the career he wants.

And out of your list- I don't see anything that suggests having devoted years to your soul. In fact, everything but your soul- which would almost make the rest of it incredibly shallow.

Accomplishments can be an indication of values- but someone can share those same values as you, without necessarily having the same accomplishments as you.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 6
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:25:06 PM

many of these nice guys has this " entitlement" thing going on , the assume that because they have all the things you mention it entitles them to the pick of the litter,


I agree, it is called confirmation bias. "Nice" guys are not the only ones that have it.

Delusion is what this is called. Can you define love? No, because there are many definitions.

"Nice" is a label. Like ADD and religious.

I understand the ideal of a "nice" guy and why it is bad to a woman's attractiveness scale.

At the same time to label is stupid. I for one stand up for the "nice' guys. Not the morons, so do not confuse the label. You cannot put all things into one category.

I think it is time for people to grow up and to have a mind of their own and to stop listening to social influence as a judgement guide.

Nothing is wrong with nice, putting ones self before logic is a big issue thou. In short you are trying to say that because someone is nice, he is the same man that does nice things to "get" your acceptance. This is NOT true. I am nice because I want to be, it doesn't mean you will abuse me.
 1uniqueblend
Joined: 8/29/2009
Msg: 7
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:30:12 PM
Your opinion would be more convincing if you considered both sides of the argument.

You're right, one characteristic is not enough to get and/or keep one's attention. Dating is one of the most subjective endeavors in life. Men don't always make good choices, but you have to admit some women can also have bad judgement sometimes. You're seeing a generalized backlash of that (which I agree isn't right), and it is just as wrong for you to generalize that the men you've questioned are not "willing to put in the time."

You stated that "dating success is based on years of working on yourself." Have you always been consistent, comprehensive, and detailed in the characteristics you ask for of EVERY person you've dated in your ENTIRE life? Have you always fairly assessed who "put in the time" for you and who didn't? Can you offer everything you ask for? Maybe, maybe not, but any behavioral inconsistencies are frustrating to BOTH men and women in dating. We will ALL have room for improvement for the rest of our lives.
 Jen_29
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 8
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:37:29 PM
I am just saying that becoming a successful dating candidate takes time and effort (for both men and women). And yes, people may disagree with my list (which is obviously just an example) but just "being nice" is obviously not good enough.
 Belle Requin
Joined: 2/17/2007
Msg: 9
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:43:31 PM
Maybe not for you, but maybe it is for others.

Granted, I find most guys who feel the need to identify themselves as 'nice guys' are door mats who I would never want to date, and can't stand the ones who believe that women only want 'bad guys'. But there are women out there who are looking more for a companion than a trophy or financial security in the form of a male counterpart- and for some of them, being a genuinely good person, may be the most important consideration for dating.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 10
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:46:40 PM

but just "being nice" is obviously not good enough.


LMAO, durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Nice is not the issue though. Granted it has been labeled.

Do I need to quote chemistry , or should we look up the "many" terms of it.

Do not get me wrong. I am not trying to be a "jerk" , remember I am "nice".

I am just trying to get you to open your mind, the world is not black and white. Granted I wish it was. You cannot put all things into one label. "Nice" is not bad, seeking acceptance can be for attractiveness purposes.

Justification for means of getting what you want can be bad also.
 KingJambo
Joined: 7/20/2011
Msg: 11
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 8:56:32 PM
and what exactly do you have to offer? lol..i see hilariously distorted demands (not implying you, just women in general on this site) from women on a daily basis..divorced with 2-3 kids, out of shape, looking for an athletic, good looking man to be their "last first kiss"..this isn't gender specific, and i haven't figured out how people with such little to offer can demand so much (like i said, both genders)
 808md
Joined: 5/24/2010
Msg: 12
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:02:04 PM
^^^ totally agree with you. This is not gender specific.
 Jen_29
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 13
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:04:34 PM
^^^ true...but you guys have to admit that we see way more guys with these "I am nice...why is nobody replying mails"
 KingJambo
Joined: 7/20/2011
Msg: 14
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:09:52 PM
it isn't their kindness that's turning you away..it's their weakness.."boohoo accept for what i am because i'm worthless to society"..what people fail to realize is you can find a nice person, that's very attractive, educated, and fit
 KingJambo
Joined: 7/20/2011
Msg: 15
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:12:03 PM
and no..you don't see more guys then i see women dreaming..i get hit up daily from not only out of shape women, obese women (i am a competitive bodybuilder by the way)..living at home, collecting welfare, with multiple kids wanting me to take them out and be their prince charming...i am sure every man can relate to this problem the same as women
 Jen_29
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 16
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:13:09 PM

what people fail to realize is you can find a nice person, that's very attractive, educated, and fit


That's my point...it's not nice person vs. jerk...it's nice person vs. nice, attractive and educated person.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 17
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:37:53 PM
All this is been a interesting read but lets face reality for a sec .. 1) there are more men than women on these sites the exception is Vancouver/Victoria in Canada, there seems to be more women out there vs men and maybe New York City for some reason.

Jen and other women will tell you that the men that emails them most of them say they are nice guys, the problem with most nice guys is they are insecure, doormats, most has no confidence or fake confidence and has this entitlement issue.

The problem for the guys that has it together he gets inundated with women that are less than Desirable, Women that has multiple kids from different fathers, looking for a baby daddy, losers, wing nuts , whack jobs and gold diggers, they do exist, and unfortunately some women that are average looking or a bit below has their life together most of these" nice guys " will pass them by and say " im not attracted to them".

Meanwhile they want the hot ladies and when the hot ladies tell the self proclaimed nice guys oh they are not interested in them , those guys label those women as shallow, selfish self absorbed b1tches.

Do some play games , that goes without saying, but both genders do, there was a study a while back that said 90% of participant that uses online dating are either dysfunctional, attached/married , unrealistic etc, approximately 10 % are normal and judging by some of the threads Ive seen on here, they may not be far off the mark.

I think the majority of nice guys do not understand that you don't need labels( nice guy, bad boy etc), action dictates words means Jack.
 Iamfree2date
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 18
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:48:49 PM
Wow, your whole post leads one to assume that you believe all nice guys are unemployed, have low intelligence, smell funny, look ugly, live with their parents, etc.

Gee...where did you get that? Some of the nicest people I met had great careers, minds and were generally happy people. That is why they are "nice". They are happy with their lives and it radiates off them.

I think it is the other way around. People who are nasty usually are because their lives did not turn out the way they wanted. They have no job, no money, no future and as a result are angry with themselves and have low-self-esteem.

Funny how women claim they want a nice, decent man with a good future but they always end up with the unemployed losers.
 casey0413
Joined: 10/27/2009
Msg: 19
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 9:57:43 PM
^^^^^Good grief regarding that study iceman. Do you have a link to it? I actually kind of doubt that the situation is quite that dire, but what do I know?
 KittenCatt
Joined: 6/11/2011
Msg: 20
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:04:19 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what OP is saying. What's wrong with her asking for - holding out for - and receiving what she deserves? I understand exactly what she is saying.

In MY own personal experience, and perhaps hers, guys seem to expect a lot more than they are willing or able to offer back in terms of looks, personality, stuff going for them, having their sxxt together, etc. I've encountered this a lot. To me it smacks of an entitlement mentality. I think OP is simply pointing this out in her own way. She has a lot to offer. She deserves a lot back. Simple.

My own personal theory regarding "Nice Guys" is that they are too lazy, insecure, afraid, or lack the insight or drive to really get themselves together into being the kind of man the women they go after would want so they fall heavily back on the constant reiterating that they're a "nice guy", hoping that will get them thru. But it won't. They should just go after the women who are on their level, but for some reason they aim too high. I don't know why.
 cinsav
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 21
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:12:26 PM
I have looked at many profiles of those “nice guys” who constantly complain about their lack of success on this site. And, I am sorry to say that many of them are good at blaming women for being stupid or shallow but, at the same time, they are not willing to put in the hard work that it takes to become a successful dating candidate.

Yes, you might be nice, but…
…are you educated?
…do you have a career instead of a job?
…do you go to the gym to look healthy and attractive?
…did you invest the money for a nice haircut?
…have you built healthy social skills?
…have you found your own place to live?
…is that place clean and nicely furnished?
…have you avoided stupid mistakes (such as being divorced at the age of 23)?

I might be picky, but in order to get a reply from me you need to invest many years in your mind, body, soul, and career. Being a nice guy is not enough. I know Americans like instant gratification. But dating success is based on years of working on yourself and not on ten minutes tweaking of your POF profile.


Translation:

...are you good looking?
...do you have money?
...can you make me laugh?

It has nothing to do with being "nice." The OP has found that the types of guys she really wants (the things that REALLY important to her - looks, money, popularity) aren't qualities typically found in the type of the guy that will hold a door for her or walk on the outside of the curb.

The types of guys she wants are the player pretty boy types that'll just use her for sex and move on. Despite her genetic disposition that she'll "be the one who makes him settle down" - she can't seem to find to find Mr. Perfection.

Iceman - you talk of entitlement with many men. But, what about women like the OP? "I'm pretty so I deserve only the best of everything. Daddy told me I was a princess when I was six and I have taken that to mean I actually AM a princess so if you're not Bill Gates + Brad Pitt + Jerry Seignfeld AND on top of all that you damn well better be the perfect gentleman - then don't bother with me, because I'm really special and I am really wonderful and you're all slugs not worthy of my time.

Don't believe me? Run into a woman like the OP while out and the town and watch how she and her gaggle of friends treat the people around them.

Seen them time and time again.

There are exponetially more women out there with a sense of entitlement due to their looks than there are men who feel entitled because they're "nice."

A lot of men haven't caught on that women are typically never honest, or rarely honest, with what they really want. "I just want a nice guy" is the same load of shit as the "looks don't matter" nonesense they've been trying to feed us for years. A lot of men simply don't understand that it's a line of BS.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 22
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:13:51 PM
Hey Casey, try this one, I dont know if you can access all the info anymore it was free for a while.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-truth-about-online-da
 808md
Joined: 5/24/2010
Msg: 23
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:22:56 PM

Wow, your whole post leads one to assume that you believe all nice guys are unemployed, have low intelligence, smell funny, look ugly, live with their parents, etc.


I don't think that is what the OP is saying. More like: O.k., you are a nice guy but if you are unemployed, have low intelligence, smell funny, look ugly, or live with your parents you will still not get a reply.

Alone, "being nice" is not a great achievement. Girls set the bar a little higher than that. And so do men.
 KingJambo
Joined: 7/20/2011
Msg: 24
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:25:36 PM
in her defense she does have a masters degree..obviously takes care of herself..and is a freakin engineer dude..i see both sides of the story but you can't hate on her for wanting a quality man..being just "nice" as both a man or a woman won't get you anywhere
 cinsav
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 25
the nice guy...are you willing to put in the time?
Posted: 7/23/2011 10:34:19 PM

in her defense she does have a masters degree..obviously takes care of herself..and is a freakin engineer dude..i see both sides of the story but you can't hate on her for wanting a quality man..being just "nice" as both a man or a woman won't get you anywhere


And?

I have two master's degrees... one in science and one in business. I also workout daily. I also blah blah blah... When it boils down to it - being happy with a person has nothing to do with their level of education, their looks, or how popular they are. It has everything to do with who they are as a person.

I don't feel that because of those things that I am some how entitled to "perfection." The OP is just pissed because she can't have her cake and eat it too. She's "pretty" and dammit she is entitled to perfection!

The OP is shallow and pretentious.

Funny thing is... a lot of guys here will come running to defend her on this forum because she is attractive. If she were 40 pounds over weight would you still be here spewing your support? No you wouldn't.
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