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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Time Travel-Is it possible?      Home login  
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 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 1
Time Travel-Is it possible?Page 1 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
I find my self fascinated by the idea of time travel.
If we could travel in time, I would like the idea of going back in time to witness things I can only read about.
Honestly though, I don't think it will happen.
Also, I'm not sure it's something we should do if we could.
There are too many problems with the concept.
First, photons can not travel faster than the speed of light. This is fact means anything of mass could not be projected forward or backward in time.
Also, there is the paradox issue. If you could go forward or backward in time, you would alter the reality of the time you travel both to and from. Your presence would change things, therefore you could not return to the reality you left because you changed it and by altering the past or present you forever change that reality also, meaning no one else could go backward or forward to the same circumstances you traveled to.
I'd like to know your thoughts on time travel.
Here's an article I found on the subject.........
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/is-time-travel-possible/7983
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 2
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/11/2011 5:18:22 PM
From what I've read, anything that would effectively work as a "time travel" machine would require absolutely astronomical amounts of energy and exotic physics. Additionally, I would imagine it would require an absolutely mind bogglingly complex coordinate system that takes into account not just Earth's position in the solar system, the solar system's position in the galaxy, the galaxy's relative position due to cosmic expansion.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 3
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/11/2011 5:37:34 PM

Also, there is the paradox issue. If you could go forward or backward in time, you would alter the reality of the time you travel both to and from. Your presence would change things


Depends on whether or not the "many worlds" hypothesis is true or not.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 4
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/11/2011 7:51:28 PM
Appreciative9809- Thank you for your response. I like reading other points of view.
As far as witnessing history, the scenes in Jurassic Park gave me chills and were great, but I'd be afraid of interacting with them.
I like the idea of going back to ancient Egypt or Rome.
We can only speculate about what would happen if we interjected ourselves into a situation, but personally, I don't think I could resist talking to people and asking questions, participating in history would also prove hard to resist.
Continuing to suppose, if you could go back and not talk to anyone or do anything, you might be able to prevent altering things, but I still think just your presence would be risky.
 TheLimey
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 5
view profile
History
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/11/2011 11:30:07 PM
I'll tell you yesterday :)
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 6
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 5:58:07 AM
If time travel was possible, it would have happened. We would have had visitors from the future at significant events. Just think how crowded the Grassy Knoll would have been if tourists from the future could travel back in time. That's an argument I heard years ago and makes complete sense to me.

Another problem is that if you invented a Time Machine, you'd only get to use it once. If you travelled back in time even one day, you'd be hundreds of thousands of miles outside of earth's atmosphere. If your physical position doesn't change, time travel would be pretty useless.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 7
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 9:20:46 AM
There are too many problems with the concept.

The main problem is that no one has any conceptual notion of what going backward in time would imply. Nature isn't concious, so conceptual problems aren't an issue.

First, photons can not travel faster than the speed of light. This is fact means anything of mass could not be projected forward or backward in time.

That's all irrelevant. The general theory of relativity which describes all of those things, does not preclude a universe in which travel into the past is impossible. The most famous example of a universe described by general relativity in which travel to the past is possible is the Godel Universe. Our universe is also described by general relativity, but it appears that for some reason, the conditions that would allow time travel don't exist in our universe, although it IS possible to determine what those conditions are. At present, there's no known reason that such conditions could not be created, at least in principle, although most physicists believe that there is some (probably subtle) facet of our universe that rules out time travel. Since the Godel Universe is an example of a universe (or at least the spacetime) described by the same theory that describes the spacetime of our universe, there's no reason to rule out time travel, a priori.

Also, there is the paradox issue. If you could go forward or backward in time, you would alter the reality of the time you travel both to and from.

That's a conceptual problem for humans, which is not necessarily a problem for nature. Presumably, if we understood time travel well enough to know that it was impossible or possible, the paradox would have a well defined resolution. If it's impossible, then the paradox goes away. If it we knew time travel was possible, we'd probably know how to resolve the paradox and make sense out it. After that, our descendants would wonder how we could have been so stupid as to not have figured that out.

If time travel was possible, it would have happened. We would have had visitors from the future at significant events. Just think how crowded the Grassy Knoll would have been if tourists from the future could travel back in time. That's an argument I heard years ago and makes complete sense to me.

It makes sense given what we would imagine time travel would imply. However, what makes sense to humans is based on their understanding of what they observe and quite often, especially in the last century, when theoretical predictions were in conflict with what humans understood as conventional wisdom, theory upset the conventional wisdom. At the moment, it appears that time travel in our universe is not possible, but in spite of a lot of effort to prove that conclusively, no one has been able to do that.

Another problem is that if you invented a Time Machine, you'd only get to use it once. If you travelled back in time even one day, you'd be hundreds of thousands of miles outside of earth's atmosphere. If your physical position doesn't change, time travel would be pretty useless.

Well, if someone didn't bother to take into account where he/she arrived as well as when he/she arrived, that would definitely be a tragic oversight. Spacetime points are defined by 3 space coordinates and 1 time coordinate, so it wouldn't be prudent to forget about the 3 that determine your arrival location.
 meowsaidthetigress
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 8
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 9:32:06 AM
...and I'll meet you tomorrow... silly thing
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 9
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 10:31:23 AM
All I know is I want my time machine to look like a big blue British police telephone box that's bigger on the inside than the outside! Oh, and a really hot travelling companion, preferably one that looks like Nicola Bryant did back when...well, you get the idea!
 ZXTTTT
Joined: 5/10/2010
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 11:32:58 AM
Time travels every morning in my house when I throw the alarm clock across the room.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 11
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 1:17:51 PM

What do you mean by "position due to cosmic expansion"? Do you believe that the matter in, and the spatial region of the galaxy has moved away from the place where the big bang occurred, that we're somewhere out from the center of the universe?


I mean exactly what I stated. The universe, including space itself, is expanding. Large-scale structure is affected by this. Our position in relation to everything else in the universe is affected by this. Our very hypothetical time traveler would have to, hypothetically, take this degree of expansion into account in their calculations since the volume of space itself from one point in time to another would have changed.


Imagine a bunch of dots painted on a spherical balloon that is being blown up. Their "space", a 2-dimensional surface, has no center. The expansion isn't away from some center in that space. It's uniform everywhere, with no privileged point.


Yes, I've seen this very ably demonstrated by astrophysicists including Lawrence Krauss in his video "Universe from Nothing." It's well worth watching.
 Crimefridge
Joined: 9/24/2011
Msg: 12
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 4:01:25 PM
I'm going to go with the alternate realities theory in terms of time travel. You can't change a stream of reality's progress through time travel, but you can create a refraction of it.
 SobreRuedas
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 4:58:15 PM
Very interesting thread!

I am fascinated by the idea of time travel.

On a lighter, more fictional note... there's a website called Finite Films and they made a short film on the subject. Although it is sort of cliché as far as time travel movies go, it is still quite ingenious :P

I'd check it out on their website, just google Finite Films. (Mods: If this by any way violates forum rules, just delete my post, I don't want any trouble, heh)
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 14
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 7:23:02 PM
I expect the day will come that it will be possible. Transferring matter through time though likely would not be as easy as simply taking a glance.

The reason would likely be due to how time interacts. Time in its truest form would simply be energy movement. As energy moves it leave a tick and a tock behind. like a pinball. It leaves a trace of itself at every intersection of movement.

If you know what the starting amount of energy is and how much energy is left behind at each intersecting point then i expect a time would come that someone would be able to basically dial up to observe at a specific point.

In order to do so however would take a massive amount of computational power though. You would basically have to have the ability to to examine every atom at a specific point in time within the area you wished to glance back or forwards at and then the hard part of manipulating those atoms energy levels to the calculated amounts that correspond to the time wishing to look at.

In thought it just might grant a glimpse. Of course that would still only show what the energy interactions looked like at a specific time. That does not convert those to images. For that you would either need to already know what you are looking at by looking at the energy interaction patterns or have a massive database built capable of containing every interaction with lightening speed query abilities.

Just my thoughts and also my thoughts that we likely won't have to worry about anyone on this planet traveling through time any time in the near future...

edit...

I mean seriously... airlines still manage to lose peoples luggage when traveling across the country, losing just 1 of your atoms trying to transfer your matter and energy would have deadly results so if we as a species can not manage to build logistics systems capable of getting something like that correct then i would not expect much better results using technology for much else.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 15
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/12/2011 8:23:35 PM
Time for a Dr. Who quote:

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff. "

...from one of the most amazingly creepy episodes EVER!!!
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 16
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 2:33:18 AM

Time doesn’t exist in the ‘flow’ concept of a dimension so there is no going forward or back… there is only now. The rest happens in the brain.


That can't be true. Time exists without the human brain playing an active role.

At the cellular level you can set you clocks by the replication and decay rates. A cell is born, lives, then dies off.

A tree grows over time in a cycle. It is not dependent on a brain observing that growth for it to happen.

A planet circles around an orbit. It is not a requirement for a brain to observe its orbit or even to define it for it to progress forward through its orbit, so again time is not dependent on a brains ability to rationalize it for it to exist.

Time is simply the movement of energy. That is its constant. It goes no faster and no slower than it does.

The "time" it takes is relitive to its quantity. A small amount of energy takes a small amount of time to transform. A large amount of energy takes a large amount of time to transform.

Watching a single cell born, move through it's environment (the petri dish) and then die (transform its available energy into another form) is no difference in the amount of time it takes for a sun to be born, move through its environment and then die due to its energy being converted.

At scale they are identical.

I am sorry but if what you were saying is that time is completely made up by the human brain as a way of comprehending the flow of life i think you may understand it slightly backwards. The flow of life is the result of time. It is energy(Us) transforming by utilizing our physical us as a petri dish of sorts.

The lucky ones among us get to participate in those energy transformations through our interactions for the entire amount of "time" that it takes. A life in the blink of an eye all dependent on the scale and focus to which you observe it.

Just my opinions and observations
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 17
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 6:26:42 AM
Interesting article along parallel lines:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-10-erasing-history-temporal-cloaks-adjust.html

Fun with optics and light:


Erasing history? Temporal cloaks adjust light's throttle to hide an event in time

Researchers from Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y., have demonstrated for the first time that it's possible to cloak a singular event in time, creating what has been described as a "history editor." In a feat of Einstein-inspired physics, Moti Fridman and his colleagues sent a beam of light traveling down an optical fiber and through a pair of so-called "time lenses." Between these two lenses, the researchers were able to briefly create a small bubble, or gap, in the flow of light. During that fleetingly brief moment, lasting only the tiniest fraction of a second, the gap functioned like a temporal hole, concealing the fact that a brief burst of light ever occurred.

The team will present their findings at the Optical Society's (OSA) Annual Meeting, Frontiers in Optics (FiO) 2011, taking place in San Jose, Calif. next week.
Their ingenious system, which is the first physical demonstration of a phenomenon originally described theoretically a year ago by Martin McCall and his colleagues at Imperial College London in the Journal of Optics, relies on the ability to use short intense pulses of light to alter the speed of light as it travels through optical materials, in this case an optical fiber. (In a vacuum, light maintains its predetermined speed limit of 180,000 miles per second.) As the beam passes through a split-time lens (a silicon device originally designed to speed up data transfer), it accelerates near the center and slows down along the edges, causing it to balloon out toward the edges, leaving a dead zone around which the light waves curve. A similar lens a little farther along the path produces the exact but opposite velocity adjustments, resetting the speeds and reproducing the original shape and appearance of the light rays.

To test the performance of their temporal cloak, the researchers created pulses of light directly between the two lenses. The pulses repeated like clockwork at a rate of 41 kilohertz. When the cloak was off, the researchers were able to detect a steady beat. By switching on the temporal cloak, which was synchronized with the light pulses, all signs that these events ever took place were erased from the data stream.

Unlike spatial optical cloaking, which typically requires the use of metamaterials (specially created materials engineered to have specific optical properties), the temporal cloak designed by the researchers relies more on the fundamental properties of light and how it behaves under highly constrained space and time conditions. The area affected by the temporal cloak is a mere 6 millimeters long and can last only 20 trillionths of a second. The length of the cloaked area and the length of time it is able to function are tightly constrained—primarily by the extreme velocity of light. Cloaking for a longer duration would create turbulence in the system, essentially pulling back the curtain and hinting that an event had occurred. Also, to achieve any measurable macroscopic effects, an experiment of planetary and even interplanetary scales would be necessary.

More information: FiO presentation FMI3, "Demonstration of Temporal Cloaking," by Moti Fridman et al. is at 4:45 p.m. on Monday, Oct. 17. http://www.frontiersinoptics.com/
 meowsaidthetigress
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 18
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 6:33:45 AM
^ Every once in a while I really learn something interesting that you've shared. Thanks~
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 19
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 6:37:55 AM
My pleasure, tigress. Anytime!
 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 20
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 9:42:51 AM
wrong type of history stargazer.

That is discussing a computer network. The history it is talking about is packet history. packets re like capsules. Meaning they are sealed up and transported through a network and they know exactly how long it would take to get from point A to point B. Any deviation of that creates a flag. A flag notifies that their was possible packet tampering. Like if someone was trying to take a peek at data being sent over a network then for that fraction of a second that it takes to grab and duplicate a sent packet would create a flag.

Just like a capsule if you open it then parts of it spill out so again it is known that an attempted interruption took place thus again creating a flag.

The topic you posted was discussing a solution to that issue. On a network with one of those junctions installed it does not allow time travel as much as it pauses (without a pause) for a fraction of a second to allow a packet duplication without a flag popping up on the primary.

It then allows someone to open the copy of a packet without altering or delaying the primary.

Think of a high speed train. that train NEVER deviates from its scheduled stops and if it does that a flag shows up to warn a system of potential tampering. In order to see what is on that train you have to stop it and empty it so that you can sort its inventory to be able to figure out what is in it.

The technology your article discusses allows for the train to never deviate but instead when it hits a specific point in the trip it hits a section that as it passes through it creates a copy of it and sends the copy down a separate track while not disrupting the original.

In a nut shell... you stumbled onto an article discussing a new type of computer network that allows for the data passed through it to be monitored without the people passing that data back and forth from knowing that anyone is observing it.

LMAO kind of like what happened to the female teams mars rover...LMAO... sorry couldn't resist.

That same technology that splits off a copy by sending it onto another track also allows for a replacement packet to be shifted in place of the original without a flag going up.

I hope this explanation clears up your miss application.

I do not have a link but if you go to grants.gov and look in the technology section you can see the grants awarded for the homeland security needs that have to do with this technology.

The telcom industry (specifically the cellular carriers) discussed the issues of being forced into being a part of such a network. It is an issue of ongoing issues surrounding it.
 RyanRoland
Joined: 6/21/2011
Msg: 21
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 10:38:01 AM
I thought there is no such thing as time...?

Everything is action - reaction, a movement/redistribution of energy.

If you think about it, time has no relevance for anything, we just use it to help frame the world we live in. Sure, you could say it takes you 7 hours of sleep to feel rested, but there isn't a measurement at all, it's just your body going through it's normal processes.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 22
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 4:42:37 PM
SobreRuedas= Thanks for the info, I'll check it out. (I don't know what that whole delete thing at the bottom of my post was all about, go figure).

I'd like to know, if we could travel in time,what time period would you go to, is there anything specific you would like to witness?
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 23
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 4:47:04 PM
halftimedad- Thank you for your response. It seems we agree about the problems of time travel.
You bring up something interesting though.
I have always wondered about the death of JFK. I'm not sure going to the grassy knoll would tell us as much as being able to listen in on private meetings at Jack Ruby's night club. ;)
I hope I didn't just hijack my own thread, LOL :)
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 24
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 4:49:20 PM

I'd like to know, if we could travel in time,what time period would you go to, is there anything specific you would like to witness?


The formation of the solar system. Beautiful chaos!
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 25
Time Travel-Is it possible?
Posted: 10/13/2011 4:56:33 PM
RyanRoland- What you say is true in a way. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I would be weird to relate things in any other way other than time, even though you make a good point, it's almost as much a measurement tool as it is anything. However, can you imagine saying things like, "I'm not sure what moment I'm in, I went to the store in an earlier state of being and I have two more actions to perform before my last action of this calender period." Much more complicated than saying "what time is it?", don't you think?
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