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 AUTHOR
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 2
Reincarnation in the BiblePage 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
What evryone cofuses here is that the is 1 a earthly death 2. A spiritual death to those who do do God's will really.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 3
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 6:33:33 PM
No one is beieving in reiencarnation well not in what the bible says for the Bible speaks of the living person then of the Spiritwithin. the eternal hereafter and the earthy domain.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 4
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 6:46:13 PM
Dead sea scrolls spoke of re-incarnation
I do not know did they?
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 6
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 7:44:25 PM
Elijah a prophet will return 2Kgs 2.11 but prophezized alot prior to departing and also raised a dead boy back o life 1Kgs1-2Kgs. Note cross references matt 11.14, 17.10-13, Luke 1.17. Now not to confuse Jesus was Elijah...Matt 16.14, Luke 9.8 John 1.21 and se Mark 9.11-13.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 9
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 8:00:01 PM
What are you doing? Where is it written the John the Baptist another doubter was Elijah. Elijah returns cuz it is so written.

Enoch returned as Elijah is it written?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 10
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 10:40:53 PM
Quite a stretch to consider all the problems in India arise from a belief in reincarnation. Better minds than yours or mine have embraced it including Plato and Wordsworth. However given that there are now more people on the face of the earth than have died in all previous generations it seems a little unlikely to me.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 13
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:56:06 PM
John 9:1-3 Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt? Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.

The Apostles seemed to hit the Nail pretty well dead on the head.

what is your intention here? - to preach new age... why twist scripture, or use lies to get a point accross?

Twisted which Time/Instance?
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 14
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:10:37 PM
John 9

1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


This is what John 9.1-3 states in the Bible, it is of a blind man and he is made blind for God's purpose oly then did he realize that it's pupose was for Jesus to cure him. The apostles asked," why is he born blind and was it because he or his parents sinned?"
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 15
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:50:51 PM
Which 1 or 2 or?
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 16
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:39:59 AM
John 9: 1. And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3. Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


Jesus assesses that a Man is blind from his Birth.

Man born blind because he had sinned? Sinned before Birth?

Jesus does not dismiss the Question posed by his Disciplines as a non-possibility:

"Master, who did sin, this man ... that he was born blind?"

... anymore than he dismissed the question of the Apostles:

"Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt?" Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.

... just food for thought ...

But then "The Works of God" is not opposite to, nor invalidating "Re-incarnation".
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 17
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 12:59:18 AM
Meaning the parents Ticket not the life before. God said if you sin against me I will see that your childrens children will suffer for generations to come.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 18
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:06:17 AM
Greetz 'lottabottle' & 'Dei Gratia'

Yet I will not fail to punish children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for the sins of their parents.

Part of the Question involved Query of "Sin of the Man prior to being born", a Question which Jesus answered, but did not dissmiss as a non-possibility.

Edit:
so in my thinking they were assuming that it was the the parents had sinned and this was punishment to the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation..

Sin is not the same as Punishment.

The Question concerned the Sinning of the Man prior to Birth.

... next question is, can we be sure those were the words said? If not, it would also throw into Question anything else in the Bible that was said. Considering the Disciples did not have the same Level of Language Education we have today, how accurate/reliable could the Verbal-to-Written Translation expected to have been?

(post moved)
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 19
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:02:21 AM
or it could have resulted from the blind person sins...

Jesus had already established the Man was blind at Birth.
If the Blind Man had committed Sins, he could only have done so prior to having been born, opening the door to the possibility of "Re-Inc"

a lot of that is in the faith that God would keep the transmission resonably in tact..but

I have never found a Relation between Faith and Understanding of Words/Language.
And supposing it is correct on the basis of Faith, then the Question involving Query of "Sin of the Man prior to being born" would also be correct, a Question which Jesus answered, but did not dissmiss as a non-possibility.

Where do we draw the Line between People who claim God talked to them vs. Reference to the Bible. Which takes priority, which is deemed to be correct in the event of a Conflict?

Telling People to send $$$ for some Ethiopian Relief Project because God supposedly told them to do so, does that amount to being a 'Divine Reference' on Par with the Bible?

The 'Make-Belief' is getting thicker and thicker ...

We started with a Reference in the Bible and we arrive at "Faith Communication Transmission Systems'.

Then I'd say, stay in bed on Sunday Morning, tune in to "Faith God Broadcast' save yourself a couple of Bucks in Gas driving to Church.

But then, for those that don't "Faith-Tune" in too well, but like to stay in Bed anyways, there are always fine TV-Folks like Jim Baker, whom God speaks to directly ... or at least used to.

... but 'Re-Incarnation' as a possibility is definitely ruled out ... or is it really nothing other than what we do and do not want to believe?
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 21
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:01:57 PM
lottabottle: So what would you consider the "level of Language" education was of the disciples?

Literacy level. Go to any kind of Speaker Event of any sorts, almost impossible to understand everything that is said, whether the Speaker failed to clarify himself, mis-worded something he meant, or the attendees simply don't have the Vocabulary of the Speaker.
 SoCal1972
Joined: 2/2/2005
Msg: 22
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 8:16:54 PM
Elijia and Enoch are supposed to come back? How. Will they suddenly materialize in the dessert? Will they be reborn, with all of their old knowledge? I dont think a man from Iraq trying to get the world attention is going to have a easy time being heard.

Course, my father insisted he was the return of Elijiah, so maybe that spot came and went already.
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 23
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/24/2005 11:06:17 PM
Simply Socal it is written then it will happen.

(Zech 4:6)
“Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.”


Let us be unmistakably clear here. Revelation the 11th Chapter specifically refers back to this message in Zechariah. Whatever we conclude about the identity of God’s two witnesses in the book of Revelation, their message is crystal clear… It is a message of God’s unmixed, unshared, undiluted, pure and absolute Sovereignty.

God’s message through His two “anointed ones” (or “Sons of Oil”) (Zech 4:14) remains the same from the Old Testament into the New Testament. God is the actor. It is God whose will is primary, who works all things according to His own will and according to His own perfect plan. This is just as John said in his gospel regarding salvation, writing that we who are saved were, “born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:13). So we can see that the Bible agrees in full that nothing is accomplished outside of the decreed will of God, for it is not by man’s might, nor by man’s power, but by the Lord’s Spirit that operations are carried out on this planet. God’s absolute Sovereignty is the message of His two anointed servants.

Good evening your Late:)
 mikelgreco
Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 24
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 11:09:07 AM

Elijia and Enoch are supposed to come back?


Where did you read that ENOCH was due back SOCAL???

Just curious...

-Mikel
 SoCal1972
Joined: 2/2/2005
Msg: 28
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 12:07:49 PM
Mike, was going off of a post above that listed enoch. Wasnt stating it as fact, but am aware that Elijiah is supposed to come back, along with Jesus. Sounds like reincarnation, but then again, maybe they will just show up in the dessert. Better be some big, global fan faire tho, becasue they are gonna get rolled by the media otherwise.

DaBoss and above

As far as life and soul... who is to say that the soul of a animal is or is not present. Certainly, there is life. Certianly, many animals exhibit a collective conciouness, in the behaviour of instinct, or hive mentality. If one is to take the native american preception that animal spirits are possibly more powerful than a individual human, perhaps they encounted a collective soul, that is distributed throughout all of the animals.

Of course, then, one could theorize that God, is the collective spirit of man, or perhaps God is the collective spirit of all things?

As far as a numeroligical discrepancy, who is to say that every soul created took a body at the advent of man on this planet? Who is to say, that every soul is limited to these particular meat sacks on this particular tiny rock, orbiting a tiny star, on the BFE trailing edge of a particular arm of one galaxy in a universe that contains millions of others?

Awfully arrogant assumptions of life and soul you are making there.
 SoCal1972
Joined: 2/2/2005
Msg: 29
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 2:31:09 PM
It doesnt, but thanks again for pointing out how incomplete the bible can be.

considering the sheer statistics alone, most scientific minds veiw the statistical probablity of life outside of our backwater rock as likely.

but go ahead and insist blindly that becasue its not in the bible, God didnt do it. im sure the Divine gets a chuckle about your preceptions of limitation you impose upon it, in the face of obvious fact to the contrary. But, that is, after all, what blind faith is about, isnt it?
 SoCal1972
Joined: 2/2/2005
Msg: 30
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 2:45:03 PM
Why bother proving anything from a incomplete, inaccurate guide?

Anyway, back to reincarnation and off of your little diversion...

If reincarnation implys a 'shortage' of souls as the population increaces, where do the souls come from if there is no reincarnation?
 -One-
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 31
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 2:50:47 PM
The 9 waves of creation. I believe in reincarnation, but of christians in Druid circles it is said that creation of new souls are a part if the 9 waves, from Hindu, and Druid Philosophies.
 -One-
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 32
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/25/2005 3:21:50 PM
"What the Bible says is any less blind faith"

You said it, I didn't. Now it's time to rest my tired old bones before they catch a chill.
 tyme_gypsy
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/26/2005 2:21:37 PM
I see reincarnation in the bible as well. But as most of these people who say that we only see what we want to in it, do the same thing. They don't want to see it because everything they have ever believed in will come crashing down on them. I KNOW there is reincarnation, because I remember. I also remember being incarnated on other planets. But they would rather call me nuts and quote out of their book as to go inside and remember for themselves. Children remember but who listens to them? They just have a vivid imagination.LOL. But then again the same people will say they are closest to God, but still not listen to anything they say.LOL Too busy making them think like they do. Because such things don't exsist.


So if you see it, cite it. If you can't, you don't see it.
I have noticed that CONSISTENTLY you of the pagan world make comments like this about what is "in the bible" but CONSISTENTLY can't cite it chapter and verse, or even get close. In other words, you're attempting to deceive others based on your own beliefs rather than anything you actually know.
Demonic possession would also give you the same illusions that you're describing and since everything that doesn't come from God comes from satan, I'd say that your answer IS in the Bible but it isn't where & what you think it is. You will find the answer in 1 John 4, 3 & 4 (below)

Having said that, there is no distinct statement that man is not "recyclable". It is appointed for "a man" to die once the face judgement. That is irrefutable, but the spirit/soul/ghost is immortal.
Christ said "in My father's house, there are many mansions". Perhaps the explanation lies there.
Suppose John Jefferson Smith, a L.A. "Crips" gang member dies. His mom used to take him to church as a kid and had him baptised but he decided to turn his back on the church and be a street hood instead. He gets popped in a drive-by and dies then goes to heaven to face judgement and God says, "JJ,as a Christian you did a really crappy job on earth. You were once my son but made decisions that make me question your viability as a member of heaven. You're going to do it again and this time you won't be a black street criminal but will come back as Korean shop keeper in Watts so you'll know what it was like to have to put up with "you".
John Jefferson Smith has died, been judged and recast not as John Smith but rather as Lee Park. The bible is 100% correct in what is written. This could be the "place" prepared for him" by Christ/God for this inDUHvidual. Of coruse when Lee Park Gets capped by the next Generation of JJ-Smith-the-Crip, he's got the roles figgered out by then.
The Bible doesn't offer this scenario but on the other hand, I can't find, nor can my family members who are pastors and Bible teachers, anything that absolutely proves this incorrect. If someone else can I please share it with me and I will change my thinking accordingly.

The reason I don't include Countbli's and isis' ideas in here as believable is that in order to a have gifts from God, i.e. as chance to get one's life right with God, one must be a Christian. They are not, so their gifts/imaginary events/"memories" are from the other master.
(1 John 3:24) The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."
(1 John 4)
"1.Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3. and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
4. You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.
5. They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them.
.

So those of us who believe know that our spirits come from God, and we're not deceived. Those who don't are playgrounds susceptible to all sorts of false visions, "memories" and spirits fill them full of all kinds of false imagry, like having lived on other planets (and might still from what I read here). If a Christian told me that S/he has lived before I'd believe him or her as although the Bible doesn't say "It happens" it also doesn't say "it doesn't happen" and there is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence, albeit mostly among pagan people. Maybe some of these are the "Lee Park" in the above hyopthetical scenario. Most would not be however. If a pagan tells thy're reincarnated, I just look and smile, because I know who is REALLY doing the talking.
 -One-
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 34
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/26/2005 2:25:11 PM
It's all in how you inturprit it,if you do not want to see reincarnation, you will not, if you do you will. Simple, but accurate.
 tyme_gypsy
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 35
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History
Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/26/2005 2:27:05 PM
"simple and accurate" by WHAT standard, pray tell?
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